Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Nocage on May 06, 2013, 02:05:35 PM
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Hello,
At 600 miles when my first oil change was due, I replaced the engine oil with Motul 5100 10W40. Now that I have 7,000 miles on the bike and am ready for the second oil change, I realized that in small print on the bottom left of the bottle it says synthetic blend. Did I just screw-up my bike?
I called several dealers and I'm not getting a consensus. Some say the Motul 5100 is a 50% synthetic and that I'll be okay and others say that I screwed up the seating of the rings and the bike will have problems. So, my questions are as follows please:
1. Did I harm the bike by using the partial synthetic for the last 7,000 miles?
2. Should I be worried about future problems?
3. At this point, should I continue to use the Motul 5100 or switch to conventional?
I would appreciate some input on this matter. I'm freaking out a bit...
2012 Concours 14
Bought new, now has 7k miles.
Frank
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I'm at work and don't have my manual by me, but my memory was the owner's manual said to change oil every 7500 miles (along with the 600 mile break in service). Also my memory was that the 7500 mile oil change interval was irregardless of dino, synthetic, or blend. I doubt you voided your warranty since you used a motorcycle oil.
I probably err on the side of caution and change my oil to frequently, but following the manual is probably just as good an approach to follow.
Enjoy your bike! And keep riding and stop worrying.
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In my opinion the first oil change should have been done using conventional motor oil but I don't think that you've screwed anything up using the Motul. I'd just continue to use the same oil now.
Besides, what else is there to be done at this point?
Ride more worry less.
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You haven't hurt anything!
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- No
- No
- Use whatever oil floats your boat...
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- No
- No
- Use whatever oil floats your boat...
except perhaps the exotic oils at the adult stores...... or at least if you use that insure the FOB has a fresh battery too :finger_fing11:
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FWIW I did my first oil change with full synthetic (Lucas 20W50) at 100 miles. Why? Has anyone ever seen what comes out at the first change?? I have, I used a coffee filter between the drain and the oil catch, really cool looking silver. In my mind I didn't want any of that bonding somewhere it shouldn't. Slim chance, but as this was my first brand spanking new motorcycle I decided to leave nothing to chance. 54,000 miles later she still runs as smooth as new and once I started using the K&N filter I never even get the start up rattle so many have. So, when do I change the oil? When the shifting starts feeling notchy. May happen at 4,000, may happen at 7,000.
I'm fairly certain that few place as high a load on the motor for an extended amount of time as I do, yes, there are some, such as the sweet turbos out there and maybe another ZX14 TB modded bike, but other than that? I get to play on the track 2-4 times a year so I get to really load her up, over and over. Works for me, but as the saying goes, YMMV :) No, I have nothing scientific to prove my findings, but I do have the SOTP dyno that validates it every time I ride ;D
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Cactus?
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Cactus?
Think ASL ;) It's my way of being none PC ;D Kinda slick, eh?
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Cactus?
(http://pics.livejournal.com/mmn/pic/001x0d82)
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FWIW I did my first oil change with full synthetic (Lucas 20W50) at 100 miles. Why? Has anyone ever seen what comes out at the first change?? I have, I used a coffee filter between the drain and the oil catch, really cool looking silver. In my mind I didn't want any of that bonding somewhere it shouldn't. Slim chance, but as this was my first brand spanking new motorcycle I decided to leave nothing to chance. 54,000 miles later she still runs as smooth as new and once I started using the K&N filter I never even get the start up rattle so many have. So, when do I change the oil? When the shifting starts feeling notchy. May happen at 4,000, may happen at 7,000.
I'm fairly certain that few place as high a load on the motor for an extended amount of time as I do, yes, there are some, such as the sweet turbos out there and maybe another ZX14 TB modded bike, but other than that? I get to play on the track 2-4 times a year so I get to really load her up, over and over. Works for me, but as the saying goes, YMMV :) No, I have nothing scientific to prove my findings, but I do have the SOTP dyno that validates it every time I ride ;D
So get out and ride it more (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/icon10.gif.html)
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So get out and ride it more (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/icon10.gif.html)
So many bikes, so little time ;D ;D ;D ;D Quick spin to get an external drive today, still puts a smile on my face everytime I ride her 8)
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Think ASL ;) It's my way of being none PC ;D Kinda slick, eh?
ASL? Don't know. Trying to figure out what ASL means.... ;)
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ASL (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ASL)
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YAOL!!!!
(Yet Another Oil Thread!!)
Has been posted a zillion times, but here it is again.... I do believe in synthetic oil has have a much longer life (double or longer). I think it probably helps with engine wear but I don't think it is magic (I don't think it clings magically or is super-slippery and whatnot).
I do always use conventional oil in the first change, and follow the rev restrictions in the manual, then switch to 100% synthetic (such as Mobil 1) thereafter; and do this in all my vehicles (and for many, many years now).
Nothing you can do now, anyway. I suggest using a 50% blend in this second oil change, THEN moving to synthetic. Many of believe that modern engines are pretty much mostly pre-broken in at the factory and are not prone to "rings never seating properly" as might have been the case 20 or 30 years ago.
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The big fear with synthetic (and I am not talking about group III wanna be "synthetics") is that the rings won't seat right during breakin. This is why Redline recommends not using their oil for the first 2000 miles.
If your oil consumption is low, your rings are seated, all is well in the C14 universe.
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ASL? Don't know. Trying to figure out what ASL means.... ;)
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ASL (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ASL)
ASL-American Sign Language. Cactus is, well, think slighly modified international peace symbol. Pinky, ring, and index bent at second knuckle and the thumb protruding. Online ASL sites don't "recognize" this but I'd be willing to bet Slivera will back me up ;) My daughter did three years in HS with ASL, got to sign the National Anthem at a Mariners game and looked hard at becoming an ASL Interpretor but decided she wanted to learn to interogate instead so she joined the Army :o
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The big fear with synthetic (and I am not talking about group III wanna be "synthetics") is that the rings won't seat right during breakin. This is why Redline recommends not using their oil for the first 2000 miles.
If your oil consumption is low, your rings are seated, all is well in the C14 universe.
For all, I have never, ever needed to add oil between oil changes. But I have replaced my fob batteries once ;)
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Red line says not to use Red line till 2,000 miles????
The people I know that use Red line rebuild their motors LONG before 2,000 miles
Race motors ;) I got a race in two weeks, going to do a leak down test tomorrow , might have to re-ring, I bet I have less than ten hours on it, 2.5L Merc ... 2 cycle
We run the motors so close to the edge that the rings don't live very long .
We use to run Klotz R 50 now we have to run AiSYN oil
The reason we have to run one oil or another is for Fuel Check that they do for the top five boats per class.
The Unlimited boys can run what ever they want and they swear by Red Line , they spray their motors No2.
MAX the Molecules are the same size so they don't move , compress , squish out of the way
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Word of the day - Molecules
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Thank you for all the responses. I feel much better. I didn't burn any oil, so as someone pointed out the rings should be sealed. Also, the owner's manual does state that a semi or full synthetic may be used, but it doesn't state a miles recommendation, so I assume even at the first oil change I could have gone to full synthetic? Basically, I don't think my warranty is void.
Again, thanks a lot. I nearly had a stroke. Now I'm going to go and make love to the road with my bike :)
Frank
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Thank you for all the responses. I feel much better. I didn't burn any oil, so as someone pointed out the rings should be sealed. Also, the owner's manual does state that a semi or full synthetic may be used, but it doesn't state a miles recommendation, so I assume even at the first oil change I could have gone to full synthetic? Basically, I don't think my warranty is void.
Again, thanks a lot. I nearly had a stroke. Now I'm going to go and make love to the road with my bike :)
Frank
What kind of oil will you be using for that?
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I guess he took up Steve's suggestion...
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Also, the owner's manual does state that a semi or full synthetic may be used, but it doesn't state a miles recommendation, so I assume even at the first oil change I could have gone to full synthetic?
Exactly. Some cars even come from the factory now with synthetic oil in the engine. Again, I tend to follow the old-skool recommendations just to be safe but acknowledge that things have probably changed.
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One would hope so, Max.
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Exactly. Some cars even come from the factory now with synthetic oil in the engine. Again, I tend to follow the old-skool recommendations just to be safe but acknowledge that things have probably changed.
I'd disagree with that. Some cars do come with Mobil 1, but M1 is not really synthetic; it is a group III oil.
No car comes from the factory with a pao/ester oil.
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:popcorn:
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:popcorn:
What he said ::)
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Motul 5100 is very good oil and it even smells good. There is only one way to know how well your oil is doing and that is to have it analyzed. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/)
Reports in their forum show C14 puts fuel in the oil so they recommend oil changes based on that issue. Apparently Kawasaki is using the same trick as Harley, when the bikes cylinders get hot it adds extra fuel to cool them off.
One time I went 10k miles on Amsoil in my C10 and it came back as still able to go another 2k. I get the full metallurgy analysis done and shearing was minimal.
I have not done the C14 yet but I will change to Motul 5100 first and then get it tested. I find the bikes shift much better on Motul then with Amsoil.
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:popcorn:
Yep
If it quacks like a duck....
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The primary differences between Full Synth and Semi Synth are longevity, cooling and cost.
The Full Synth will last up to 1/3 longer and will provide better oil cooling.
In terms of friction, there is very little difference between them and all that poop about not using Full Synth until broken in is,.... poop.
The main reason to not use it for the first 600 miles is cost. After that go with Full Synth if you like to waste money.
Me I run with Semi Synth because it's cheaper. I change oil at the prescribed intervals.
51,000 miles on her and the oil level drops from top mark to about halfway during that 7500 miles between oil changes.
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Motul 5100 is very good oil and it even smells good. There is only one way to know how well your oil is doing and that is to have it analyzed. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/)
Reports in their forum show C14 puts fuel in the oil so they recommend oil changes based on that issue. Apparently Kawasaki is using the same trick as Harley, when the bikes cylinders get hot it adds extra fuel to cool them off.
One time I went 10k miles on Amsoil in my C10 and it came back as still able to go another 2k. I get the full metallurgy analysis done and shearing was minimal.
I have not done the C14 yet but I will change to Motul 5100 first and then get it tested. I find the bikes shift much better on Motul then with Amsoil.
I ran back to back Blackstone analyses on my 08 C14 at 6000 +/- 500 mile intervals with Rotella T Synth 5w40 and Motil 5100 15w50 and other than the viscosity the Rotella had the better results. Blackstone suggested increasing interval with Rotella but not with the Motul. I did not notice any difference in shifting.
ROTELLA:
"This first sample from your Concours is looking really good. Universal averages show typical
wear levels for this type of engine after about 3,000 miles on the oil. That fact that wear metals are looking
this good after almost twice as long on the oil as average shows an engine that is wearing very well. A little
fuel dilution was present, but that's not unusual in bikes, and 0.5% isn't cautionary. The viscosity was in the
5W/30 range. Fuel may have thinned it out a little. The TBN was strong at 6.2 showing lots of active additive
remaining. Try 8,000 miles on the next oil."
MOTUL:
"This second sample contained quite a bit of silicon, and wear increased more than expected
after the longer 6,542-mile oil change interval. The silicon could be abrasive dirt causing the extra wear, so
suggest checking the engine air filtration system for cracks or loose fittings. Lead was the only metal reading
far enough out of line to highlight, but that could be from a one- time particle streak through the bearings so
we'll look for improved lead next sample. The slightly low viscosity isn't a problem. The TBN was a strong
4.8. Stick with 6,500 miles next to monitor."
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Great to know that fake synthetic diesel oil works so well. I ran 272 pretty spirited miles last Saturday, and my shifting was like butter. :thumbs:
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Great to know that fake synthetic diesel oil works so well. I ran 272 pretty spirited miles last Saturday, and my shifting was like butter. :thumbs:
Doubt it. The high silicon level that is causing more wear didn't come from the Motul, unless they dump sand in it when the make it. I think the owner switched to a K&N or similar non oem air filter.
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Doubt it. The high silicon level that is causing more wear didn't come from the Motul, unless they dump sand in it when the make it. I think the owner switched to a K&N or similar non oem air filter.
Nothing was changed except the oil and the area ridden. The K&N was already there for the Rotella. I am not saying Motul is bad oil, I'm saying Rotella is plenty good oil and for half the price of the Motul I am sticking with it. I DO wish they made it in 15w50.
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>73,000 miles on mine running Rotella T6.
After 200,000 miles I might part my bike out on ebay and send Shell/Rotella a thank you note and also ask them to make me some rotors as awesome as their oil (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
I used to run this in prior bikes but Pokey said its junk :D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg.html)
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Oil...
One of the winningest , is their such a word ?
Outboard drag racers uses Amsoil transmission oil in place of gear oil in his lower unit...
So what does that mean ? I'm not sure ? but I just ran out of milk, so I might try some in my coffee ...
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Oil...
One of the winningest , is their such a word ?
Outboard drag racers uses Amsoil transmission oil in place of gear oil in his lower unit...
So what does that mean ? I'm not sure ? but I just ran out of milk, so I might try some in my coffee ...
What, WHITE coffee??????????? Next thing you know your'e gonna tell us you have a car tire on yer boat trailer :o
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>73,000 miles on mine running Rotella T6.
After 200,000 miles I might part my bike out on ebay and send Shell/Rotella a thank you note and also ask them to make me some rotors as awesome as their oil (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
I used to run this in prior bikes but Pokey said its junk :D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg.html)
Hey Steve,
I stopped using Amsoil when the labelling changed from 100% Synthetic to what you see in these pictures (no more 100%) .
Come to find out there are two brands of Amsoil motorcycle oil, their lower priced brand and they still make the 100% Synthetic brand which I dont see around much anymore.
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>73,000 miles on mine running Rotella T6.
After 200,000 miles I might part my bike out on ebay and send Shell/Rotella a thank you note and also ask them to make me some rotors as awesome as their oil (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
I used to run this in prior bikes but Pokey said its junk :D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0906.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/junk1/IMG_0908.jpg.html)
Junk......junk I tell ya!!!!!! >:(
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One of the problems with Amsoil is some of their dealers have had that chit sitting on the shelf for a VERY long time , rotate stock, come on that is WORK , then Joe consumer comes in and buys seven year old oil and finds lumps in it :o
So who's falt is it?
Put a brand new top of the line tire on your car , truck whatever that is seven eight years old and cry as the tire rips apart ;)
EVERYTHING has a shelf life.
Good Day jj
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Nothing was changed except the oil and the area ridden. The K&N was already there for the Rotella. I am not saying Motul is bad oil, I'm saying Rotella is plenty good oil and for half the price of the Motul I am sticking with it. I DO wish they made it in 15w50.
If your K&N wasn't leaking with the Rotella, it sure as hell is with the Motul now. Doesn't matter what kind of oil you use; if you got a high silicon level in your oil, your air filter is letting dirt in, either through the media itself or around the seal. Since K&N filters filter better as they load up with dirt, my guess is it is leaking around the seal.
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As recommended by Blackstone I did check the air filter and could not see anything unusual. I did clean and re-oil it and re-seal it. But again my post was not to bash Motul Oil, I tested it against Rotella because I believe it is the best oil available. Someone posted that oil analysis is the only way to know how well your oil is doing. I agree and thought I would Blackstone share my results. And my results show I can safely go 6000 miles with $22.00 a gallon oil.
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As recommended by Blackstone I did check the air filter and could not see anything unusual. I did clean and re-oil it and re-seal it.
K&N filter more dirt when they already have dirt in them. In other words, a new K&N will let more air in than one with 5,000 miles. If you look at the filter, there are noticeable itty bitty holes that small particles of grit can fly right through, into your intake, into your engine.
As you put on miles, large particles get stuck to the filter, their accumulation makes it harder for the little guys to pass on through. That's one a reason why should clean your K&N more often than necessary. When you say reseal, I'll assume that you shmeared K&N sealing goop on the seal. I am not a K&N fan, but if you have one, I'd use that goop and hope for the best as I have problems with filter sealing of K&N filters on other cars that I have owned.
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There is a warning in the owners manual about the air filter after riding in the rain. Seemed nonsense to me but perhaps the filter is subject to water invasion which could ruin the OEM paper filter. I thought maybe the water could also wash out the K&N oil. Prior to the Motul oil change I DID ride through 4 days and 600 miles of steady rain. BTW after the all the rain in New York and New England I rode the though Atlantic City and the Outer Banks which was maybe the source of the silicone. But as I said the filter looked normal.