Kawasaki Concours Forum
Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: TJ on April 25, 2013, 09:17:27 AM
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Looked at one yesterday and thought WOW! Anyone here ride one? Opinions?
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10587.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10587.0)
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A friend just bought a GT last week. Says it's a torque monster.
Correction-GTL.
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My avatar says it all.
They're over-evaluated.
They're not the best, many years ago, maybe.
They're good bikes but don't believe they're any longer manufactured ENTIRELY in Germany (the main feature pushing so many people to buy them)
Many parts are imported from China if not ASSEMBLED there (at least in Taiwan)
That is the new strategy of German brands: keep a "German" price while having "Chinese" costs.
Rehearsals of this are in the latest BMW 650 scooter: the engine is built in Kymco, Taiwan, but BMW denied it, at first, then admitted it after pictures and wiitnesses.
Look at Volkswagen; they are built in Germany, but some important components are Chinese (PRC). The quality of the German components is outstanding, but, just as an example, if the plastic impeller of the water pump fails (assuming that is a small, cheap, Chinese component) the ENTIRE car is out of order, thus the OVERALL quality is spoiled by few, small, insignificant but vital components.
This is the new deal of the frightening, mighty German economy... but they try to keep it confidential.
Have a close look at the BMW 1600 GTL: plastics rules!
And this is what you can see: figure what's inside the parts you cannot see!
I prefer much more a transparent communication, stating that that particular vehicle has some kind of components, that those components are supervised while manufactures, that they do the best effort to guarantee a good quality but that the economic downturn has forced them to look for cheaper components, instead of false and subtle announcement like "spend your hardly earned $20.000 but you get pure German quality in return" ...and it's NOT TRUE!!!
>:(
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Look at Volkswagen; they are built in Germany, but some important components are Chinese (PRC). The quality of the German components is outstanding, but, just as an example, if the plastic impeller of the water pump fails (assuming that is a small, cheap, Chinese component) the ENTIRE car is out of order, thus the OVERALL quality is spoiled by few, small, insignificant but vital components.
>:(
Actually, not all VWs are built in Germany. Jettas, among others, are built in Mexico.
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Actually, not all VWs are built in Germany. Jettas, among others, are built in Mexico.
Yes, but this is well known and is for the American market (No more Jetta in Italy and I think in Western Europe too...).
I'm talking about Golf, Passat and so on... and possibly Skoda and SEAT models (owned by VW).
But most of all they save costs on small cars you probably don't know about in the US, like the Up! (999 cc, 3 cyl.) but that are important sales in Europe.
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I owned a K1600GT, which is virtually identical, and I can honestly say it was the most impressive bike I have ever owned.
I find the K16 to be a bike with few compromises. As a touring bike, it excels by having tremendous weather protection, good range, and comfort and conveniences either not found, or duplicated as well on other bikes. It has great two-up ability as well.
On the sport side, the way that bike steers and corners is beyond the laws of physics. It almost inspired too much confidence. I remember coming into corners much faster and relying on the K16's ability to almost intuitively take a more aggressive angle. It is incredibly stable, yet is the most flickable ST bike I have ever ridden.
The engine is AMAZING. Electric motor smooth, and torque out the wazoo. The K16 absolutely rips, and having a passenger on the back is almost transparent as far as acceleration goes. No downshifting required, just hammer the throttle and the bike takes off even two up.
My only complaints were the ride by wire felt a bit artificial, I prefer an honest to goodness cable. Also, the transmission was a little notchy. Not bad, but I expect perfection for the price the K16 demands. Those were my only complaints.
As far as value.....jeez. Guys here get their shorts all bunched up on this topic. I look at it this way....go price a loaded Goldwing, and a loaded Ultra Classic if you need to feel better about what a K16 costs. Go ride all three, and if you are a ST type of person, the K16 will blow the wind up your kilt like the others cannot.
Materials, fit and finish were all of excellent quality.
As an aside, outsourcing is the way of the world. Everyone does it, and that does not necessarily mean quality needlessly suffers. I owned 5 BMW's in a row before moving to my C14, and never had any trouble.
In the end, take one for a ride, and if it speaks to you and you can afford it, I would not hesitate if I were you.
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I owned a K1600GT
Why did you get rid of it? ??? :-\
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Why did you get rid of it? ??? :-\
...sounds like we're slumming with our lowly c14s. I feel unclean.
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I would buy the new Triumph Trophy long before I would buy a BMW.
My 2013 V.W. Passat tdi is built in Chatanooga Tn., Jettas are made in Mexico, and the Golfs will be made in Mexico this year. I love my Passat and wouldn't trade that for a BMW either.
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Why did you get rid of it? ??? :-\
Personal reasons.
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I would buy the new Triumph Trophy long before I would buy a BMW.
My 2013 V.W. Passat tdi is built in Chatanooga Tn., Jettas are made in Mexico, and the Golfs will be made in Mexico this year. I love my Passat and wouldn't trade that for a BMW either.
I was really excited about the Trophy. Then I rode it and posted my riding impressions in another thread. I really though that was going to be THE next bike, but it did not make me want to sign on the dotted line.
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...sounds like we're slumming with our lowly c14s. I feel unclean.
Somehow I knew that in spite of no unkind word said about my C14, my mostly positive experiences with my K16 would ruffle feathers. I have owned my C14 for about a year now, and think it's a great bike overall, and certainly a raging bargain.
I don't know about you, but it's a little sad when a forum member asks for some qualified opinions good or bad about a BMW, and the only guy to get gang tackled in the thread is the one that has had a positive BMW ownership experience.
Trust me, it's my pleasure to be the nonconformist here.
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I have had a very positive BMW too. This thing has done such a great job since I've owned it. It is perfect
http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=43202 (http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=43202)
Great rain gear.
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I have had a very positive BMW too. This thing has done such a great job since I've owned it. It is perfect
http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=43202 (http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=43202)
Great rain gear.
Overpriced junk, made in China. Joe Rocket rain gear is better. ;D
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Probably junk,but it works good for me. Keeps me dry. If I ever need it again I'll buy Froggtoggs.
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Somehow I knew that in spite of no unkind word said about my C14, my mostly positive experiences with my K16 would ruffle feathers. I have owned my C14 for about a year now, and think it's a great bike overall, and certainly a raging bargain.
I don't know about you, but it's a little sad when a forum member asks for some qualified opinions good or bad about a BMW, and the only guy to get gang tackled in the thread is the one that has had a positive BMW ownership experience.
Trust me, it's my pleasure to be the nonconformist here.
No "gang tackling" that I can see'. I'm very interested in your evaluation of the K1600. Given your praise and the implication you no longer own it, "why did you get rid of it" is a natural question. I also respect your response of "personal reasons". Long story short, it's all good and thank you for letting us know your thoughts on this bike.
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Thanks for the comments, especially from the guys who actually rode or owned one. Being 60 years old I have ZERO brand loyalty towards any bike or car company. I buy what I like and what suits me, as long as it is considered to be a good machine.
My options at this point are to to keep the Concours and add a Triumph XC 800 or trade the Concours in on the BMW. Going to wait and see what type of riding I enjoy the most in our new home state before making another purchase.
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Outsourcing?
I bet most people don't know that many car and trucks (and many other items) built in this country are made from steel produced in plants owned by a Russian company.
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No "gang tackling" that I can see'. I'm very interested in your evaluation of the K1600. Given your praise and the implication you no longer own it, "why did you get rid of it" is a natural question. I also respect your response of "personal reasons". Long story short, it's all good and thank you for letting us know your thoughts on this bike.
I think there is a new Ducati in the garage. ;)
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Outsourcing?
I bet most people don't know that many car and trucks (and many other items) built in this country are made from steel produced in plants owned by a Russian company.
Agreed, the outsourcing complaint is an odd bone to pick, and as an example the helicut gears onthe K16, which are sourced from China have not been a problem.
I took that as someone simply having an axe to grind as opposed to any valid reason to not consider the K16.
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Outsourcing?
I bet most people don't know that many car and trucks (and many other items) built in this country are made from steel produced in plants owned by a Russian company.
I certaintly do not know. Please enlighten me.
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I really like some of the food culture from China, but that is pretty much where it ends for me. ;D
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I certaintly do not know. Please enlighten me.
Okay.
The River Rouge steel plant, built by Henry Ford in the early 1900s was sold off to a consotium which ran it for a few years until they sold it to Severstal North America, who invested a ton of cash in it and now operates it at a profit, supplying the Detroit car makers. They built a new plant in Columbus, MS in the mid 2000s and doubled its capacity recently, supplying steel for car factories, lawnmowers and all sorts of companies across the South. They also bought a plant in Wheeling, WV. They are the 4th largest steel company in the US.
Severstal employees get discounts on new cars just like the UAW folks.
Severstal NA is the US division of OAO Severstal based in Russia.
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Interesting about the Russian company. I guess building steel in the U.S. with U.S. workers by a company owned in Russia is better to me than built in Russia and anything with China on it. For many things, made in China is an absolute deal breaker. Many things though, you have no choice. I'm waiting to see the new twin next year, looks very interesting. The 1600 is out of my league.
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It is a global economy. No one really knows who the owners are, and if they did, who are the investors? I really don't care who makes the parts of my cars, trucks, or bikes as long as they work and don't break. Most Japenese and korea cars are now made in the states.
But now I am off topic as well. Be nice to find a couple of more guys who could offer some unbiased opinions about the 16 GTL.
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You are right, but I should have said also U.S. owned and operated, I do research before buying too. Back to business. The only thing keeping me from buying a BMW is the complexity for no apparent reason and cost of service/ownership. I love the overall concept of the 1600, great bike, great motor, love to have one. Does BMW offer test rides at dealers?
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Test rides, yes.
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At all or just participating dealers? Guess I need to check out their website. I'd love to ride one. I'm retiring in a few years and replacing my bike is on the list of things to consider.
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I did not even ask the dealer for a test ride. He asked me if I had my "gear" with me. And if I did and could show him a motorcycle endorsement I could take a bike out for an hour. That was impressive in its self. But still, $26K is a lot of money and we have to get settled in our new house first as we just moved to Colorado Springs. I need to be a really good hubbie as I just bought a 2013 Grand Sport Corvette that is in transit. Have to slowly work on the wife:)
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They are one of the few brand dealers that practically beg you to take a new bike test ride, while others may offer you their used bikes only.
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Well, you really have piqued my interest. I'm going to check this out. Thanks.
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I picked up a 2013 GTL a couple of weeks ago...
Have a little over 700 miles on it, and it is great! :shoot:
Tremendous power, and is just superb in the twisties...and I am averaging a bit over 42mpg!
The BMW dealers welcome test rides, so if you are wondering about a GT or a GTL, go try one out.
Pud