Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Flienlow on April 18, 2013, 08:49:26 AM
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And yet more nuub questions:
First off, a big shout out to all you guys who have helped me. I really appreciate you taking the time to share. This is an excellent forum.
I get the feeling this bike has a tendency to devour 3 things:
1. Gas
2. Tires
3. Brakes
I know there is not a lot that can be done about number 1 aside from throttle control, but would a power commander ect pay dividend in this regard?
What is the average mileage out of tire? I am heading out on a road trip, does anyone have a tire recommendation for 2000 miles of mostly highway? I know I will get a flat spot, just looking for suggestions.
What is average mileage folks are getting out of their brakes.
My Used Connie has 6500 miles on it, the rear tire is bad and not stock, and the brakes seem a little shy for only 6k. That prompted this post because is seems like she like to chew through hardware. ;)
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I am very, very happy with the mpg of my '11. My old sport touring bike was a '91 Katana 1100, which averaged 38mpg on the highway.
In eco mode, I can get 50mpg on the connie, exact mpg depends on speed of course, it seems to take a dive above 65mph. I did a trip to Victoria, B.C. last month and the computer said that my average mpg was 44mpg.
Yes, it is true that mpg takes a huge dive in the city, but you can say that about any bike (my katana in city only driving got about 27mpg).
As for brakes, mine are fine at 15,000 but then again, most of the miles have been touring. The stock tires were toast (rear showing steel ) at around 5000 miles or so.
I have around 9,000 miles on my PR3's and they still look good. Wear determined by how your ride.
Tire recomendation is always michelin, pr2 or pr3, I like the pr3 for their magnetic like grip in the rain.
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!. Yes. What I have is the PCV, Auto tune, full AreaP pipe, and ZX14 Throttle Bodies. My average overall is 42, when SWMBO is on board I get 45. At Pacific Raceways during Advanced Street skills I need gas at 105 miles, do the math ;) '08, my eco mode is SWMBO :o
2. Tires, for whatever reason I tend to get more life than most, around 12k miles, shortest life span was on the 'Stones. I run the Pirelli Angel STs with a 55 profile rear. The only popular tire I have not run is the PR3 so no comparison there but to the rest? The Angels are ready to go cold, rain or shine.
3. I do think I have run all the pads with the exception of the newer stock pads and the EBCs are hands down the best, with the Carbonne Lorraines being the worst...
Bonus, to this day my all time fav farkle is the Baker Hand Wings. Combined with the cheap trackside gips elements I ride with summer gloves year round. As a comparison? The Storm Barkbusters I have on the GS offer less protection from the wind.
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SOB makes more pow-ah than a Honda Civic, let it sip a little fuel ;D
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SOB makes more pow-ah than a Honda Civic, let it sip a little fuel ;D
QFT ;D You callin me names? ;) I'd invite you on up fer the asswhoopin but this year I aint got the spare time to show you some proper riding areas, well, I may be able to squeeze in a day or two :P
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My average overall is 42, when SWMBO is on board I get 45. At Pacific Raceways during Advanced Street skills I need gas at 105 miles, do the math ;)
Pacific Raceways? I had a CBR1000 yard sale there one time. Damn turn 6, and damn the wet paint. :D
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Michelin Pilot Road 3's. 6-8k for me. Also like PR2's as well. Just like knowing the 3's will do a little better in the rain if needed. Just for reference the only other tires I've had on this bike are the OEM stones and Avon Storm 2 Ultra's. The PR's far better then either of those.
I average 38 or so on day rides and typical around town stuff. But when touring on long rides during the summer I average about 42. I think this is mostly due to the fact I ride with people on cruisers and we just have a more leisurely pace then when I'm alone on the C14.
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Average is something that just does not apply to tire life on a C-14. I am not sure of the causes but tire life ranges from 2,500 miles to 16,000 plus. Go figure.
The three premium tires that seem most popular and work well on a C-14 IMO are the Michelin Pilot Road 2, Pilot Road 3 and the Pirelli Angel. I have used all three and liked all three but the Pirellis lose their good handling manners before they are 1/2 way through their life. The PR2s seem to yield the greatest mileage and I have gotten 16K each out of three different sets. The PR3's don't last as long but are a softer, stickier tire than the PR2 and I like them better. The current set on my bike has over 8K and while worn certainly, they are not worn out.
Pirelli has just introduced a new Angel GT which is a 2- compound tire. The original Angel ST's were excellent handling tires early on and if Pirelli has really improved the behavior of the tire as it wears this new Angel could be a great tire. I am planning on trying a set following the current PR3s.
Long distance riding is just not a problem with tires or brakes on this bike. Given premium tires, the bike will easily go between coasts at least twice before needing tires and some can make the trip more than twice. Put another way, I have not been able to wear out a set of tires in four days of the hardest riding I have done on this bike
As to brake pads, they seem to last reasonably long at something like 20K +, at least for some. I have used both OEM brake pads (Gen 2 pads were changed to try and alleviate the rotor warping problem on the Gen 1 bikes) as well as EBC pads. All are excellent but my preference is for OEM (Kawasaki) Gen 2 pads. They are virtually silent in use, work well in the wet, wear well and have overall excellent braking characteristics IMO. In fact the EBC pads perform just about the same as OEM Gen 2 pads but generate quite a bit of noise. OEM Gen 1 pads have a lot of initial bike and work very well as brakes but generate amazing amounts of brake dust, seem to wear somewhat unevenly and have a considerably shorter lifespan than either of the other types mentioned. That said, they do generate the best initial bike and best overall braking with the least handle pressure of the three types I have tried; if you want serious 'one finger' braking, the Gen 1 pads really do stand out.
Brian
And yet more nuub questions:
First off, a big shout out to all you guys who have helped me. I really appreciate you taking the time to share. This is an excellent forum.
I get the feeling this bike has a tendency to devour 3 things:
1. Gas
2. Tires
3. Brakes
I know there is not a lot that can be done about number 1 aside from throttle control, but would a power commander ect pay dividend in this regard?
What is the average mileage out of tire? I am heading out on a road trip, does anyone have a tire recommendation for 2000 miles of mostly highway? I know I will get a flat spot, just looking for suggestions.
What is average mileage folks are getting out of their brakes.
My Used Connie has 6500 miles on it, the rear tire is bad and not stock, and the brakes seem a little shy for only 6k. That prompted this post because is seems like she like to chew through hardware. ;)
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I get the feeling this bike has a tendency to devour 3 things:
1. Gas
2. Tires
3. Brakes
Welcome to a bike that is:
1. Powerful
2. Big
3. Heavy
:)
I know there is not a lot that can be done about number 1 aside from throttle control, but would a power commander ect pay dividend in this regard?
No, not really.
What is the average mileage out of
OMG, there are dozens and dozens of existing threads talking about fuel economy, tire wear, tire recomendations.... search is your friend!
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Can't say I agree with your evaluation concerning the handling of the Angels BDF, I am beyond half life and they still handle fabulous IMHO.
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I've only had one but it flatted and started to turn in like a truck long before the tread was gone. I think I still have that tire as a 'drop dead spare' in the event a good tire, like a Michelin, gets shreaded.
;)
Brian
Can't say I agree with your evaluation concerning the handling of the Angels BDF, I am beyond half life and they still handle fabulous IMHO.
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QFT ;D You callin me names? ;) I'd invite you on up fer the asswhoopin but this year I aint got the spare time to show you some proper riding areas, well, I may be able to squeeze in a day or two :P
I was referring to the thread topic, let the C14 eat some fuel cuz it makes the mad pow-ah :D
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In looking at the prices for both the stock brake pads and the EBCs it would seem that the stock pads cost ~twice as much as the EBCs. Either that or the part number for the stock front pads includes two sets?
Front pad Assembly - 43082-0071 (08-09) ($61.53 at Ron Ayers)
Front pad Assembly - 43082-0112 (2010+) ($51.65 at Ron Ayers)
But why do the stock rear pads cost twice as much as the EBCs?
Rear pad Assembly - 43082-0055 ($61.53 at Ron Ayers)
EBC Brakes FA417/4HH Disc Brake Pad Set (~$37)
EBC Double-H Sintered Brake Pads FA254HH (~$30)
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In looking at the prices for both the stock brake pads and the EBCs it would seem that the stock pads cost ~twice as much as the EBCs.
<snip>
But why do the stock rear pads cost twice as much as the EBCs?
Because Kawasaki enjoy having intimate relations with your wallet. ;D
I have and never will buy Kawasaki or Honda consumables.
You pay twice the price just for the privilege of a nice label.
My next set of pads is going to be DP Brakes.
Current ones are Ferodo (I though they were EBC but they ain't) and I am not impressed.
EBCs I had before were good and the OEMs were good.
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Because Kawasaki enjoy having intimate relations with your wallet. ;D
Well, to be fair, *ALL* manufacturers do this.
I have and never will buy Kawasaki or Honda consumables.
You pay twice the price just for the privilege of a nice label.
Yep- I recently was lazy and had the dealer replace my OEM battery in my Infiniti with another because it was partially covered under warranty. Even after warranty, it was 50% more than I could have bought a non-Infiniti battery. I remember many years ago that my Honda battery (in my CRX Si) died only 2 years!
In some cases, OEM is much better than the best aftermarkets. In other cases, aftermarkets are better than the OEM.
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Well, to be fair, *ALL* manufacturers do this.
Yep- I recently was lazy and had the dealer replace my OEM battery in my Infiniti with another because it was partially covered under warranty. Even after warranty, it was 50% more than I could have bought a non-Infiniti battery. I remember many years ago that my Honda battery (in my CRX Si) died only 2 years!
In some cases, OEM is much better than the best aftermarkets. In other cases, aftermarkets are better than the OEM.
So, what's the case with Kawasaki?
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So, what's the case with Kawasaki?
That will depend on the exact part and which aftermarket part one is comparing it to :) I have not replaced any OEM parts yet, so I have no data to share.
Although not Kawasaki branded, it seems just about everyone agrees that most anything is better than the stock/OEM tires, though :) (And yes, I am still waiting for mine to wear out...)
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Hey, we've talked about fuel mileage, tires and brakes. What about oil?
:stirpot:
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Hey, we've talked about fuel mileage, tires and brakes. What about oil?
:stirpot:
Not unless you add it to the title.
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I don't really have anything to add, other than to say you should not put much stock in the on-board MPG display. On my 2010 at least, the display routinely shows MPG at least 10% greater than actual. For example, if display shows 44 MPG, the actual computation yields 40 MPG, or roughly 10% less. I don't worry about it anymore. If I need fuel, I buy it. I disregard the MPG reading because it is not accurate, and it doesn't matter anyhow. If I care about MPG, I ride my KLR.
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I will add that tire mileage can be decent, especially if you are going to go on the super slab. Keep the tires inflated to the recommended pressure and avoid using the engine as a brake. In other words, don't use downshifting as a brake, use the brakes. Of course hard acceleration causes tire wear too, but it's fun. ;D
I got 8200 miles out of my stock front and over 10,000 miles out of my stock rear tire. I did a lot of long trips on the interstate but I live in Western Pennsylvania so I did a lot of blasting through the twisties. Engine braking eats a tire. When you feel like doing it because you think it is the way it is supposed to be done, remember that the old GP racers had two strokes and had no engine braking. The engine is not a brake. We have brakes for that.
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WHAT :pukeface: I down shift HARD I use the brakes very little
You telling me using the brakes does not wear a tire ::)
Can enlighten us some more :doh:
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WHAT :pukeface: I down shift HARD I use the brakes very little
You telling me using the brakes does not wear a tire ::)
Time for a few more drinks so you can enlighten us some more :doh:
Yes, engine braking wears them more. Ask a road racer if the engine is a brake. I'm not saying don't do it, do it if you want, it is fun, it just isn't what the engine is for. Down a long hill is a good use for engine braking, but engine braking during hard riding as a way to brake before a turn isn't the proper use of engine braking. Brakes are easier to modulate. The reality is that we use both, together. Hard engine braking is exerting more braking force to the rear than you probably do when using just your brakes. I doubt you use your rear brakes so hard, you use you front more. Hard engine braking is why slipper clutches were brought into play. There was a reason for that. Hard engine braking isn't a good thing.
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- what is the difference to the tyre whether the braking is engine braking or normal braking ?
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Can some tell me what the difference is between these two rear brake pads, other than the slight difference in price and that one is listed as fitting a 2008 C14 and the other is not?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GS1P46/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GS1P46/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GTVOLE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GTVOLE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2)
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- what is the difference to the tyre whether the braking is engine braking or normal braking ?
I am no expert in this topic...
I would guess that there isn't a big difference to the tires, what difference there is would be possibly the abruptness of the braking. For sure it would be that engine braking would be 100% rear, where normal braking is almost all front. This would tend to shift more wear to the rear tire- and the rear already takes a lot more wear than the front (as evidenced by so many people having to replace two rears to one front).
Now, engine braking does affect the engine, transmission, and drive. I suspect the engine won't care much, but the transmission and drive probably will see significant additional wear. And some systems aren't designed as well for this "reverse" torque going through them. As for if it really matters on the Concours, who knows. Of course, this engine braking will also reduce wear on the braking system- pads and rotors mostly :)
Like [I suspect] most experienced cyclists, I use a combination of engine braking and braking on most stops. I believe it even recommends this in the Kawasaki owner's manual.
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I am no expert in this topic...
I would guess that there isn't a big difference to the tires, what difference there is would be possibly the abruptness of the braking. For sure it would be that engine braking would be 100% rear, where normal braking is almost all front. This would tend to shift more wear to the rear tire- and the rear already takes a lot more wear than the front (as evidenced by so many people having to replace two rears to one front).
Now, engine braking does affect the engine, transmission, and drive. I suspect the engine won't care much, but the transmission and drive probably will see significant additional wear. And some systems aren't designed as well for this "reverse" torque going through them. As for if it really matters on the Concours, who knows. Of course, this engine braking will also reduce wear on the braking system- pads and rotors mostly :)
Like [I suspect] most experienced cyclists, I use a combination of engine braking and braking on most stops. I believe it even recommends this in the Kawasaki owner's manual.
If the force is the same there would be no difference. MY comments relate to getting the most mileage out of the tire as the OP asked. If you engine brake, you are only using the rear for braking, something most people don't do. You are also applying more braking force via the engine that most people would apply using the rear brake. The force is greater most of the time.
All I know is that on the original Bridgestones, I got over 10,000 miles out of the rear tire.
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Rotella T6 will allow for less fuel consumption and more brake/tire wear
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What he said
I don't really care about tire wear that much I guess, the way I'm going one set a year is fine with me, with out the cat's and the dual mufflers it does make some noise down shifting and I like it, lets the cars know I'm there. You don't buy a 1400cc 700lb with 150hp bike for great gas mpg and low tire wear, at least I didn't :D
FUN in a old mans body is getting harder to find. :grouphug:
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^^^^that boat in your sig looks fun, what is it an Allison?
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Rotella T6 will allow for less fuel consumption and more brake/tire wear
See? Now we're getting somewhere!
:rotflmao:
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What he said
I don't really care about tire wear that much I guess, the way I'm going one set a year is fine with me, with out the cat's and the dual mufflers it does make some noise down shifting and I like it, lets the cars know I'm there. You don't buy a 1400cc 700lb with 150hp bike for great gas mpg and low tire wear, at least I didn't :D
FUN in a old mans body is getting harder to find. :grouphug:
These ideas weren't directed at you or your type of riding. They were a direct response to the OP's question. One year out of a set of tires is fine if you aren't riding enough to eat through more, nut if you are only getting 4000-6000 miles out of a set of tire, for many that will mean multiple sets of tires a year, sometimes meaning eating through a set of tires in one trip.
I live in an area with nice twisty roads. I love blasting through them, but I also use this bike for long trips on the interstate. That is why I replaced my RC51 with it. It is nice being able to eek out more miles from a tire when necessary.
BTW if you think the loud noises coming from your bike let cars know you are there, you need to study the Doppler effect and human's hearing. Both make render the noise your bike makes useless for letting the people in cars know you're there. If you are relying on that for your safety I would say more training is in order.
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I use cheap oil, cheap tires, and regular fuel containing ethanol. I rely almost entirely on ABS to save me from my own self, and would have loud exhaust but am too cheap to buy it. I never use up good brakes, when engine braking will get me by, and have left my bike out in the rain.
Also, all my internet friends think I'm an arse. 8)
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We don't want to **** off our imaginary friends.
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Gas, Tires, Brakes. That would look good on T-shirt. Sort of like Eat, Sleep, Ride, Repeat. How about one on the front and the other on the back? :)
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These ideas weren't directed at you or your type of riding. They were a direct response to the OP's question. One year out of a set of tires is fine if you aren't riding enough to eat through more, nut if you are only getting 4000-6000 miles out of a set of tire, for many that will mean multiple sets of tires a year, sometimes meaning eating through a set of tires in one trip.
I live in an area with nice twisty roads. I love blasting through them, but I also use this bike for long trips on the interstate. That is why I replaced my RC51 with it. It is nice being able to eek out more miles from a tire when necessary.
BTW if you think the loud noises coming from your bike let cars know you are there, you need to study the Doppler effect and human's hearing. Both make render the noise your bike makes useless for letting the people in cars know you're there. If you are relying on that for your safety I would say more training is in order.
I think you need to change your hair color your becoming contaminated
I don't need training you just know to much ::)
I got 7,600 miles from stock rear could have made another 1,000 but had two tires that wanted to get rolling they were sick of sitting in the garage, My front stock tire was bald on the sides lots still in the center , lots of cupping I guess I don't brake much .
South Florida roads are flat, smooth , straight NO twisty roads only twisty ice cream here 8)
Your NOT BLASTING if you got 10,000 miles on those stock tires :rotflmao:
The two kids on sport bikes I use to ride with move far far away, I've slowed way down , I'll get 20,000 out of these P3s now ;)
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I think you need to change your hair color your becoming contaminated
I don't need training you just know to much ::)
I got 7,600 miles from stock rear could have made another 1,000 but had two tires that wanted to get rolling they were sick of sitting in the garage, My front stock tire was bald on the sides lots still in the center , lots of cupping I guess I don't brake much .
South Florida roads are flat, smooth , straight NO twisty roads only twisty ice cream here 8)
Your NOT BLASTING if you got 10,000 miles on those stock tires :rotflmao:
The two kids on sport bikes I use to ride with move far far away, I've slowed way down , I'll get 20,000 out of these P3s now ;)
I'm not how this degraded into a personal attack. To answer your implication, the 10,000 miles on the rear was due to a 5 month period of multiple trips on the interstate.
Have you really gotten 20,000 out of the PR3s? That's great. I have my first set of PR3s on now after using Angels. Good to know.
And just so you know, I have gray hair and I don't dye it.
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Gas, Tires, Brakes. That would look good on T-shirt. Sort of like Eat, Sleep, Ride, Repeat. How about one on the front and the other on the back? :)
will work for
gas
tires
brakes
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No no 14
I only have 3,000 on the P3s just saying I've slowed down since I don't ride with the 20 year old's
anymore , (thank God)
Late one night the three of us get it on from a light , I let off at 60 mph ( 45 zone) Stan who was a Cop and Is now a Cop again 6'3" 250 lb strong as a Ox takes it to 130MPH passes two parked police cars sitting and talking , Cop catches him at a light , said he went by so fast he could not see the color of the bike (blue) lets him GO :o He had a Cop wallet you know the kind that has a place for the Star (badge) chit chat
Lets get back to OIL 20-50 Royal Purple :banghead:
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20/50 lucas
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Rotella T6 will allow for less fuel consumption and more brake/tire wear
Forget to mention I only plan to get 200K miles from this oil, then I'll part the bike out on ebay. I expect the engine to be fine but the rest of the bike done and tired.