Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: sas mayhem on February 09, 2013, 07:01:44 AM
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When I spoke with Don I told him I wanted the latest map they had for a slip on exhaust (Two Brothers) and a K&N filter. I did'nt have him mess with the rev limit. I sent it om a Monday and had it back here in NC on Friday. I took her for a 10 mile spin yesterday and gang if your on the fence about getting this mod, jump off and get it done. The off idle acceleration is so smooth, gone is that little choppiness and sluggishness at low rpm's. Driving in traffic (city) I can cruise in 2nd at a low range and just tickle the throttle to pass, no more shifting in the city, the engine now pulls so effortlessly you might not know that your doing 55 in a 35..... in a low gear. And on the highway silky smooth into the triple digit (safely). This is easily the best bang for buck and you don't even get your hands dirty.
Now this morning on my way to work it was 34 degress riding at a GPS corrected 80 mph, tach was under 3900 rpms I was pulling 33-34 mpg which is about 2-3 mpg more than what I had before the reflash.
I slowed down to a steady GPS corrected 75 mph, tach was barely on 3600 rpm and I was pulling down 37-39 mpg. which again is 2-3 mpg more that what I had.
Well done Done Guhl :great:
http://guhlmotors.com/ (http://guhlmotors.com/)
Cheers
Ron
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Nice post. I've heard nothing but incredible things from the ZX14 and ZX10 crowd that has had the flash done there (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/icononethumbup.gif)
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I am glad you are enjoying the bike so much more, sounds like a great mod. Is this the flash that primarily has the secondary butterflies open sooner?
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Most Excellent, SAS! :thumbs: :goodpost:
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Thanks for the feed back on the re-flash. I'm one of those fence sitters. I'm waiting the pull the trigger on a Area P slip on and want to add the re-flash at the same time. Just need to save a few bucks to do it at the same time. What did the re-flash cost you? I can't seem to find any price on his website.
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Thanks for the feed back on the re-flash. I'm one of those fence sitters. I'm waiting the pull the trigger on a Area P slip on and want to add the re-flash at the same time. Just need to save a few bucks to do it at the same time. What did the re-flash cost you? I can't seem to find any price on his website.
+1 on price?
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Doh!!! My bad, price was 375.00 and well worth it.
Cheers
Ron
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Fairly inexpensive as farking goes...
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Fairly inexpensive as farking goes...
Agreed. It is software, so we are talking about them taking 5 minutes to unpack it, plug it in, press a button, then repack it. So in that regard it seems expensive. But for what it DOES, it still sounds like a good value (especially if you compare to the labor of pulling the flies out).
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and the time spent developing the mapping ? Thats not 5 minutes of work ..
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Doh!!! My bad, price was 375.00 and well worth it.
Cheers
Ron
Thanks, Looks like I need to call them first chance I get.
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As will I...
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and the time spent developing the mapping ? Thats not 5 minutes of work ..
Of course. But that is the nature of music, video, software, etc. You have to guess what to set the price so you can cover your initial costs but not so high as to push people away. Once the initial costs are covered, all the orders that follow are 95 to 99% profit.
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Thanks, Looks like I need to call them first chance I get.
I am actually a little scared of what the bike would be like without the flies choking it at lower RPM's.
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I am actually a little scared of what the bike would be like without the flies choking it at lower RPM's.
It's awesome.
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I've decided that I'm going to do it this spring...
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Anyone know what a stock bike with a guhl reflash, what 1/4 mile time it can post?
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If the reflash had been an option at the time I was doing mine I would have gone that route instead of pulling the flys and adding a piggyback. If I had a bike with traction control it would definitely be a reflash. However you disable the secondaries, the results are dramatic when you whack the throttle in the lower gears. If you're still on the throttle into third it all becomes a moot point.
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I am actually a little scared of what the bike would be like without the flies choking it at lower RPM's.
I have 240+ pounds to reign it in with.
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I have 240+ pounds to reign it in with.
Not me... I am only 155!
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No worries Max, it'll carry your weight. And as long as it's moving it doesn't matter how tall you are.
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Ok gang one more quick update. Yesterday I rode 2up with Debbie, for a couple of hundred miles. Mile fuel consumption was unchanged, I still had the same increase of 2-3 miles. Also one major difference that I noticed is the increase torque felt my acceleration with 2 up is more than me riding solo before the re flash. In fact I will say by the seat of the pants. I would out accelerate myself 2-up with the reflash againt myself solo before the reflash. Also pulling from a red light I no longer have to upshift half way thru the intersection, the increase torqure at a lesser throttle postion pulls me/us without an issue. I can happily ride in the city in 1-2 gear with out reving the motor or lugging.
Cheers
Ron
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Oh geeze, looks like I'm going to have to do this too.
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Took you long enough...
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Sometimes I'm a lil slow on these bandwagon things.
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price was 375.00 and well worth it
- sounds like a good deal there !
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Not me... I am only 155!
I knew it!
your still in High School
Does Kitty want to play with the Rat Pack
One day the Jack R and the Rat Terrier got a Rat one had the front the other the back , they ripped it in half like if you used a knife :D
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I knew it!
your still in High School
Does Kitty want to play with the Rat Pack
One day the Jack R and the Rat Terrier got a Rat one had the front the other the back , they ripped it in half like if you used a knife :D
Maybe they were making a wish, who got the largest part? ;)
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I might be tempted to jump on the Guhl bandwagon too if it was playin' some less expensive tunes. Does anyone on this site know Guhl a little better to see if he would agree to a 'group re-flash' or at least a little break for fellow Connie Forum member freaks. $375.00 for the Grand Flashmaster Guhl's black magic seems a bit much.
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I might be tempted to jump on the Guhl bandwagon too if it was playin' some less expensive tunes. Does anyone on this site know Guhl a little better to see if he would agree to a 'group re-flash' or at least a little break for fellow Connie Forum member freaks. $375.00 for the Grand Flashmaster Guhl's black magic seems a bit much.
Considering the price of a PCV and Auto tune and the potential issues with a piggyback controller I would say it's a fair price for what you get. You also have the option of getting all the RPMs she capable of, something the PCV won't unlock for us. Speaking for me, full AreaP, and ZX TBs another 1000 RPMs would be nice when the mood strikes ;D
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You still have to figure cost of R&D and the value of Don's intellectual property rights as he is the one who spent the time to crack the code. Also I think a second reflash is at no charge or reduced rate. There was talk of Guhl selling hardware and software coded to a single ecu so you could do your own tinkering. I don't know if this is going to happen.
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Folks should not confuse "software" costs/upgrades/revisions/releases as having anything whatsoever to do with costs of hardware, materials, parts, etc as its a whole different world.
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I knew it!
your still in High School
!
HA! I graduated 26 years ago.
Does Kitty want to play with the Rat Pack
I am afraid that would put your dogs in grave danger... My Zach almost certainly weighs more than one of those terriers and is pure muscle (Maine Coon) with HUGE paws bearing HUGE razor sharp claws. Would tear them to shreds :)
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Folks should not confuse "software" costs/upgrades/revisions/releases as having anything whatsoever to do with costs of hardware, materials, parts, etc as its a whole different world.
One doesn't do any good without the other. Or am I missing something?
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I paid my money and it was worth it. And I think its fair to ask if Guhl would do a group buy. But if you want cheap or free....then write the software and learn the skills and do it yourself.
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I sooooo want to do this ('specially since my last bike was an '07 gsx-r1000)...the C14 is no slouch, but knowing there's lots more to be so easily uncorked is driving me nuts! I just worry about the warranty thing.... :-\
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I just worry about the warranty thing.... :-\
It can be reflashed back to stock. 8)
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HA! I graduated 26 years ago.
I am afraid that would put your dogs in grave danger... My Zach almost certainly weighs more than one of those terriers and is pure muscle (Maine Coon) with HUGE paws bearing HUGE razor sharp claws. Would tear them to shreds :)
Main Coons are awesome! We had one. she was the best cat ever, we still miss her. :'(
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But if you want cheap or free....then write the software and learn the skills and do it yourself.
Or just pull the flies and ride. 8)
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Or just pull the flies and ride. 8)
True, but you'd still need a PC.
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not really.
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not really.
care to elaborate? I don't mean to shock you, but I've heard rumors of a discussion regarding this topic.
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:popcorn:
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+1
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Question: is there specific code to open the flies, or is that something the ECU does automatically based on something else in the tuning?
My question stems around, why would I pay nearly $400 for a single flash, when I could buy a PowerCommander or Bazzaz unit for about the same and do whatever I want? Or I guess manually get rid of said flies and do the programming myself... both the PowerCommander and Bazzaz units offer downloadable maps for specific set-ups. They are just about infinitely configurable, and instantly changeable back to stock without days of down-time.
I am *NOT* discounting the work done by Guhl, but as a consumer, I have to wonder about the value proposition. Thoughts?
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There are two maps in the ECU for these flies. One for the traction control system and one for normal operation. Guhi knows where the one for normal operation is and this is the one that they can modify. This is IMHO the better way to go if you have a 2010+ unit with traction control due it using these flies as one of the three (fuel/spark/flies) to control traction.
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The primary reason is less moving parts, less to go wrong while on the road, accessible switch between ECO/Power mode and other computing functions like MPG and Miles to Empty, and Traction Control.
As normal, there is always 3-5 answers/solutions to a given requirement. The Flash is just a very neat and tidy solution to the Flyoctomy.
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+1, I will be doing this at some point as well.
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Question: is there specific code to open the flies, or is that something the ECU does automatically based on something else in the tuning?
I don't think we can answer those questions, since it is something that requires disassembly of the programming. However, I am going to guess that the secondary butterflies are variable and on a map, just like everything else.
My question stems around, why would I pay nearly $400 for a single flash, when I could buy a PowerCommander or Bazzaz unit for about the same and do whatever I want?
Because with a PC:
1) It will not open the secondary butterflies, so those would still have to be removed, physically.
2) Removing the secondary butterflies cripples part of the the traction control system (but only part of it... it still still operate, just not as smoothly)
3) Restoring the bike to factory requires reinstallation of those secondary butterflies.
4) It is less reliable- There are lots of connectors and other things to install, each one having connections that can fail, be cut, go open. Plus there are more circuits to fail. And it requires power.
5) Much more labor to install.
6) There is something visible to cue possible warranty issues (the PC and the missing flies) (even that that would be bogus for anyone to complain about, it is still a very real factor).
On the flip side, the PC:
1) Gives an easy way to go back to "stock" programming (no additional reflash expense).
2) Allows for user-programmable maps and quick change of maps.
If you are a "tuner" or "racer" then you will probably want the full control and power of a PC. If you are just a regular street rider, you might prefer the simplicity, reliability, stock-ness, and refinement of the ECU reflash.
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I have thought the same question. Here are my thoughts:
1) Removing the flies will negatively affect '10 and newer tc.
2) Changing the tune instead of an add on box means one less thing to worry about failing or bad wiring
3) Add on box merely plays with the fuel, a flash can also change top speed and timing.
4) Don't see how the eco mode can be preserved on '10 and newer bikes with a pcv. If I am wrong, tell me why.
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Original thread (and might be only other thread): http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585)
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- imho , some of the guys who have been running this flashed ECU for some time now should perhaps comment on how their experience(s) have been.
- just yesterday had the experience of riding in the wet. Accelerating on a straight bit of road , came upon a large painted arrow on the road , the rear spun up very quickly and equally quickly the traction kept everything under control , felt the rear loosen up and step to one side.
- if not for the TC , perhaps the bike would have highsided me into the embankment.
- how does the TC perform after the flashing ? Or had no one bothered or have the time/experience to test it ?
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Plenty of people have posted about their experience including myself. The flash delivers on the promise of fly's open sooner/longer inline with a tuned map and delivers 10-15% more torque down low.
TC works perfectly.
ECO mode is retained
I've ridden my bike several times on the track now and the flash makes a big difference, I don't need to gear down to 2nd in some corner if I don't want to.
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Have had the FLASH done for over 8,000 miles now. When I leave my driveway I clime a steep hill that has pine trees hanging over the road, I can hold the bike wide open(eco turned off) in 1st. gear and it only rolls the pine straw over in several short spots every 3 feet. This road at times is covered 2 inches deep with pine straw and rained on them. I do this just for test and fun, unbelievable, no sideways sliding. And this is up a steep hill. It makes the motor sound funny. HeHe!
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So let's just say I am considering doing this but don't want to change the pipe at all, I just want to get full power in the lower gears. Does this work?
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So let's just say I am considering doing this but don't want to change the pipe at all, I just want to get full power in the lower gears. Does this work?
Very few people ever change the exhaust pipe. I think you mean "muffler". The former might have significant impact (depending on which parts), the latter [alone] not.
But the flash, as mentioned in this thread, is specifically designed for a stock bike, which means no modifications to the bike at all. Although I do imagine they might also have a flash for certain mods, but that is not mentioned... you would have to contact them to get such questions answered.
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Here is a paste about tune with aftermarket can vs stock:
"We have different tunes for the stock exhaust, vs. the aftermarket exhaust. It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust. Also, if you are sure you are going to get the exhaust, we could program for it, and just run it like that until you get it. It'll just be a little rich in the mean time, but not horrible.
Let me know if you need any additional help.
Thanks,
Don Guhl
> I have a '11 C14. Do you use the same flash for a stock c14 as you
> would for a C14 with just a slip on?
> I am on the fence about getting a slip on and want to know if I got a
> reflash with my totally stock exhaust, would I need to send the pcm
> off again if, down the road, I got something like a V&H slip on.
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Here is a paste about tune with aftermarket can vs stock:
"We have different tunes for the stock exhaust, vs. the aftermarket exhaust. It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust. Also, if you are sure you are going to get the exhaust, we could program for it, and just run it like that until you get it. It'll just be a little rich in the mean time, but not horrible.
Let me know if you need any additional help.
Thanks,
Don Guhl
> I have a '11 C14. Do you use the same flash for a stock c14 as you
> would for a C14 with just a slip on?
> I am on the fence about getting a slip on and want to know if I got a
> reflash with my totally stock exhaust, would I need to send the pcm
> off again if, down the road, I got something like a V&H slip on.
Exactly the question I had. Thanks! But the answer: "It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust" leads to another question. Does this mean he will reprogram for free or a reduced fee? Because I'm not sure if or when I will get an aftermarket exhaust but would like to reflash now especially if there is a group buy.
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Exactly the question I had. Thanks! But the answer: "It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust" leads to another question. Does this mean he will reprogram for free or a reduced fee? Because I'm not sure if or when I will get an aftermarket exhaust but would like to reflash now especially if there is a group buy.
I *think* reflashes are free, but you have to pay for the return shipping of your ecm.
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I *think* reflashes are free, but you have to pay for the return shipping of your ecm.
:thumbs: I can live with that deal! 8)