Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Frank ZZR on January 28, 2013, 06:18:57 PM
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Not sure if this has been seen yet..........
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2013-sporttouring-shootout-10-video-91504.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2013-sporttouring-shootout-10-video-91504.html)
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With the surveys being turned in I really do wonder HITH mama kaw ignores the obvious? Tires being the easiest and most notable and I'd bet a simple fix for the linked brakes, maybe an option to unlink? The top gear roll on??? Really? Do they handicap first gear roll on? No mention there, eh? FJR= Five gear Junior Riders ;D
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Kawi dogged for "peaky" performance was funny as all get-out
But its true the Honda and FJR have 2013 technology and the C14 has 2010. And I agree the 205 mile range of the Connie blows, its been my biggest complaint of the hole bike. And yeah the linked brakes are %^#$ in the aggressive setting.
I'm a Honda fan, but of those 3 bikes I'd still purchase the Connie14.
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Side note: The Euro bikes of late are killing the japs. Watch the Triumph Trophy and what it brings to the table at a decent price, I suspect it will be a hot seller for '13.
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Yeah, I'd still buy my 1st-gen non-ABS C-14 over either of the current offerings from Honda or Yamaha. Peaky power? Seriously? Did they look at the friggin dyno chart? The Yamaha gets kudos for best motor, but only has 3hp over last year's model? Still gets beaten out past 7k rpms, and with 6 gears you can stay in the sweet spot much more easily than the Yami or Honda... Retards.
As for Mama Kawi fixing the quibbles they had: Put a damn 55-series tire on the bike, either in 180-series GT form, or 190-55... take your pick. The linked brakes need to go. I wonder if some hydraulic re-routing would solve the problem? It'd take some figuring out, but I'm pretty sure there should be a way to get that done...
A slightly larger fuel tank, cruise control, delinked brakes, and a 55-series tire... Kawi? Are you listening?
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Yeah, I'd still buy my 1st-gen non-ABS C-14 over either of the current offerings from Honda or Yamaha. Peaky power? Seriously? Did they look at the friggin dyno chart? The Yamaha gets kudos for best motor, but only has 3hp over last year's model? Still gets beaten out past 7k rpms, and with 6 gears you can stay in the sweet spot much more easily than the Yami or Honda... Retards.
As for Mama Kawi fixing the quibbles they had: Put a damn 55-series tire on the bike, either in 180-series GT form, or 190-55... take your pick. The linked brakes need to go. I wonder if some hydraulic re-routing would solve the problem? It'd take some figuring out, but I'm pretty sure there should be a way to get that done...
A slightly larger fuel tank, cruise control, delinked brakes, and a 55-series tire... Kawi? Are you listening?
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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I have had a 2006 ST 1300 which was nearly unbearable in 95+ F weather due to engine heat coming through the seat and from the heads to your shins/thighs.
I have had a 2007 FJR which was great and unlike a lot of people I though the 5 gears made great sense. It was a great bike which I unfortunately traded in for a lemon of a bike 2009 FJR 1300 AE auto-clutch that the dealer wouldn't listen to me about how poorly it shifted. Shame on Yamaha customer service.
I was able to trade in the AE' for a Concours. It honestly is the smoothest of the three (sorry ST1300 owners) it doesn't have the heat of the ST1300 (Gen II FJR was slightly better at heat management) and when the suspension is set up it is actually more "flickable". I believe it does lack behind the brake linking and sophistication of the FJR and potentially the ST1300. I don't know about "peaky" power. Any of these three bikes has so much extra torque you can lug them along and do just fine. The fuel injection of the Concours Gen II is better than any of these three bikes. The Connie may not have the range of the others but with good planning 200 miles or so gets me where I need to get to.
But of the three great motorcycles the C-14 is the best of them all for me.
Of course this comparo article and my opinions are worth nothing for others. Everyone is different and has to find out what is best for them.
WRichStrom
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I have had a 2006 ST 1300 which was nearly unbearable in 95+ F weather due to engine heat coming through the seat and from the heads to your shins/thighs.
I have had a 2007 FJR which was great and unlike a lot of people I though the 5 gears made great sense. It was a great bike which I unfortunately traded in for a lemon of a bike 2009 FJR 1300 AE auto-clutch that the dealer wouldn't listen to me about how poorly it shifted. Shame on Yamaha customer service.
I was able to trade in the AE' for a Concours. It honestly is the smoothest of the three (sorry ST1300 owners) it doesn't have the heat of the ST1300 (Gen II FJR was slightly better at heat management) and when the suspension is set up it is actually more "flickable". I believe it does lack behind the brake linking and sophistication of the FJR and potentially the ST1300. I don't know about "peaky" power. Any of these three bikes has so much extra torque you can lug them along and do just fine. The fuel injection of the Concours Gen II is better than any of these three bikes. The Connie may not have the range of the others but with good planning 200 miles or so gets me where I need to get to.
But of the three great motorcycles the C-14 is the best of them all for me.
Of course this comparo article and my opinions are worth nothing for others. Everyone is different and has to find out what is best for them.
WRichStrom
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Not sure if this has been seen yet..........
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2013-sporttouring-shootout-10-video-91504.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2013-sporttouring-shootout-10-video-91504.html)
Thanks for posting Frank, I hadn't seen it and enjoyed watching it! :chugbeer:
I agree with the comments on cruise control, fuel tank size, and linked brakes. :thumbs:
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Went with the best........so I ordered a '13 FJR ::)
Should be here next month.
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Unfortunately the test confirmed that the Connie is thirsty! :(
All other comments just confirm that I made the right choice... ;)
I feel more and more comfortable with this bike day after day.
I don't know for how long I'll keep the C14, but I won't change it for a FJR or an ST for sure!
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What the article does NOT mention is that Yamaha does not recommend the use of a top box due to the lack of strength in the rear sub frame. What use is a sport TOURER if you can't put a top box on!!
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What the article does NOT mention is that Yamaha does not recommend the use of a top box due to the lack of strength in the rear sub frame. What use is a sport TOURER if you can't put a top box on!!
I don't use a top box. I hate how they make the bike look; kind of like the Clampets go riding. All you need to pack is a toothbrush and a gold card.
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What the article does NOT mention is that Yamaha does not recommend the use of a top box due to the lack of strength in the rear sub frame. What use is a sport TOURER if you can't put a top box on!!
+1 ;)
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That was a good vid.
Funny, I was just there at Death Valley myself a couple weekends ago with my Connie.
I agree with the opinions....especially about the fuel range. I was on FUMES rolling to Beatty, NV. I missed a gas-stop in the park and was at 199 on the ODO since my last gas-stop. Not sure if putting it in ECO mode in the last 30 miles saved my bacon.
A buddy of mine has a 2nd Gen FJR, ridden it on a numerous occasions....I will say, the Yamaha does a better job hiding it's weight than the Connie. And he is comfortably hitting 240 per tank, while I'm looking to pull over by 180, sweating by 190. Overall, I do feel the Connie offers a pretty damn good package for the money.
Once dealers get flexible on the price with a 3rd Gen FJR....it would make a tough call between the Connie and FJR.
Bikes aside, wherever you are in the country....Death Valley is worth a visit sometime in your lifetime. Just don't do it in the summer....unless you are gluten for punishment.
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Yeah, no shockers in that article.
55 rear is my next purchase... I want off the bike for a walk and beverage well before 200 miles (and plan my rides accordingly), and since I usually tour this bike I do better than the rated MPGs... Since I don't carve with this bike all that much, the linked brakes don't phase me a whole lot (but it does reduce how often I trail brake when I DO carve)...
With the new FJR, and the upcoming Trophy, we'll be seeing more of these comparos come out. Peace of mind knowing that she was the best when I bought her, and still NO regrets that she's in my garage (other than the black wheels on the newer ones).
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But its true the Honda and FJR have 2013 technology and the C14 has 2010.
The Honda is 2003 technology. Been waiting FOREVER for that bike to be updated. It's not available this year, so maybe they're updating it for 2014 (or at least coming out with a touring version of the VFR). I'm guessing the 2014 model year will be a good year for sport tourers, with the recent survey's for the Concours and this bit on the Honda. With the FJR already being updated and the Trophy having been introduced and the BMW K1600 GT a couple years ago, there should be some good across-the-board competition soon.
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... the Trophy having been introduced and the BMW K1600 GT a couple years ago, ...
If some of what I have read so far is true (and I haven't read anything in a few months), the Trophy will be in the price range of the BMW, and therefore in a higher cost bracket than the other 3. That will be a factor for a lot of people, keeping the C14, ST and FJR in competition with eachother, and the Trophy and BMW going after those with more financial means.
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I’m certain someone will do a full-on Sport Touring Shootout, which would make a interesting read….but to be fair, they would HAVE to keep $$$$ in perspective.
We are talking significant amount of money (for most mortals) when comparing the difference between something like the Connie to a BMW K1600 or the new Tri Trophy. I’ve test ridden a K1600….it’s simply an amazing motorcycle, but the 6K-7K cost difference is significant enough that I can own my Connie without any regrets or second thoughts.
If money were no object, I would be taking a risk and trying out that new Motus Sport Touring that is coming out. Yes, it’s 30K, unproven, unknown….but that motor sounds so bad ass (from the promo vids), it’s hard to resist.
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If money were no object, I would be taking a risk and trying out that new Motus Sport Touring that is coming out. Yes, it’s 30K, unproven, unknown….but that motor sounds so bad ass (from the promo vids), it’s hard to resist.
+1... I want to see that Motus in person.
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I agree about the lack of low end power on the C14, has the kind of low end that only a two stroke could be envious of. They said it felt like ti had a light flywheel, I think it needs the flies to open sooner.
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I agree about the lack of low end power on the C14, has the kind of low end that only a two stroke could be envious of. They said it felt like ti had a light flywheel, I think it needs the flies to open sooner.
Just pull em. :)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/dfjedj.jpg)
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Just pull em. :)
Easier said than done. I have a '11 and like the smoothness of the TC the way it is, don't want to lose that. I don't want a mickey mouse add on box, I want a reflash but there are only a couple that can do that and they are 1000's of miles away.
I don't feel comfortable spending $400 on a reflash without time on a dyno.
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Easier said than done. I have a '11 and like the smoothness of the TC the way it is, don't want to lose that. I don't want a mickey mouse add on box, I want a reflash but there are only a couple that can do that and they are 1000's of miles away. I don't feel comfortable spending $400 on a reflash without time on a dyno.
And I think all your points and concerns are valid.
The Concours can easily "eat" the ancient Honda in just about every way and should be able eat the brand new Yamaha, in most ways too. But it is a shame that Kawasaki didn't make the secondary butterflies and linked brakes adjustable with a simple menu controls. As far as I know, this could be done, easily, and without a single hardware change at all.
The funny thing is that Kawasaki could make some minor hardware changes and end up right back at previous "miles above" the other two again: add cruise, add a gal to the tank, change headlights to projector HID, add profiles for the FI/Flies/brakes, change all bulbs to LED. Wham; not even a single change to the engine, trans, drive, physical brakes, controls, frame, FI, suspension, or main bodywork. Throw in adjustable bars or something just to spite the others. All quite possible in the next revision of the Concours. But it speaks volumes that the C-14, a 2008 release, is still extremely competitive even with a newly designed 2013 Yamaha....
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And I think all your points and concerns are valid.
The Concours can easily "eat" the ancient Honda in just about every way and should be able eat the brand new Yamaha, in most ways too. But it is a shame that Kawasaki didn't make the secondary butterflies and linked brakes adjustable with a simple menu controls. As far as I know, this could be done, easily, and without a single hardware change at all.
I would have liked to see something like a dual mode power scheme where mode one is eco mode and opens the flies late like now and mode two is power mode where flies open early and the bike has more power at the expense of a little less fuel.I guess you can say we have something close to that now, but I'd want it more defined.
Another thing that they could have done that would cost nothing in parts would be altitude display mode on the dash. I do a lot of driving up and around the mountains and would be nice to know the altitude I am at, especially if the weather report says "Snow level 7000'". Since the bike already had a barometric sensor, this should be easy. And don't laugh, I keep a close eye on the outside temperature number when it is raining- last fall, I was driving in 36 degree rain in WY, if it dropped lower, I'd seek a motel.Heck, they could even add a weather icon if they wanted.
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And don't laugh, I keep a close eye on the outside temperature number when it is raining- last fall, I was driving in 36 degree rain in WY, if it dropped lower, I'd seek a motel.Heck, they could even add a weather icon if they wanted.
Oh, I am not laughing. When I take off, the display is on tire pressure. Then I will shift it to outside temp and that is what it stays on as the "normal" screen for me. I think having a barometric pressure and/or altitude would be fine. I just wish the bike would allow more info to be displayed at the same time. I think it is silly I can't look at temp AND tire pressure AND some other stuff at the same time... the screen is certainly large enough, and it has the resolution.
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Yeah, no shockers in that article.
55 rear is my next purchase...
I did the PR2 55 rear install a couple of weeks ago. It turned (no pun intended) the bike into I was expecting in the first place. I wish I wasn't such a cheap bastard and should have done this before putting 3K miles on the original tires. I know that this has been discussed many many times before but I just wanted to add another testimonial. Just do it!!
Next up is the cruise control install.
Mark
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I did the PR2 55 rear install a couple of weeks ago. It turned (no pun intended) the bike into I was expecting in the first place. I wish I wasn't such a cheap bastard and should have done this before putting 3K miles on the original tires. I know that this has been discussed many many times before but I just wanted to add another testimonial. Just do it!!
I would imagine dropping the front a bit would have the same effect, though. In my case, I can't do either, because every mm lower is important and I already have it as low as I think is probably safe.
Next up is the cruise control install.
Some day I might get around to doing something like that.
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Went with the best........so I ordered a '13 FJR ::)
Should be here next month.
:battle: Good luck with it!
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Since the bike already had a barometric sensor, this should be easy. And don't laugh, I keep a close eye on the outside temperature number when it is raining- last fall, I was driving in 36 degree rain in WY, if it dropped lower, I'd seek a motel.Heck, they could even add a weather icon if they wanted.
Altitude via barometric pressure isn't very accurate, especially if a storm is moving in or out. Perhaps get a GPS? It can give you altitude within a couple of feet (assuming it can lock three satellites) and is unaffected by weather.
My Volkswagen Touareg had an icing warning that showed up as a snowflake on the dash MFD if the outside temperature dropped below 42 degrees F.
I agree with what others have said regarding the Concours: nothing major has to change: keep the frame, engine, basic styling; just add throttle-by-wire, electronic cruise control, fix the linked brakes, add selectable riding mode (I'm kind of meh on this one), a heated seat (!), power outlet or two, fix the dash display a bit (e.g. larger with more info), make the gas tank about 1.5 gallons larger, and for shits and giggles, add a fully electronically adjustable suspension as a $2.5k OPTION to compete with the BMW's of the world (I would get it).
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Altitude via barometric pressure isn't very accurate, especially if a storm is moving in or out. Perhaps get a GPS? It can give you altitude within a couple of feet (assuming it can lock three satellites) and is unaffected by weather.
They are one and the same. Proper adjustment is the key.
I don't know what you mean by "very accurate". My BAC watches (they tell the weather and altitude) are never off by more than 3%. The only time you need very accurate altitude is when sky diving and then, even with a dedicated altitude device, you calibrate on the ground.
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I think we can all agree Momma Kaw needs to update her Sport Tourer. We need a longer cruising range, cruise control, and a better functioning linked brake system (why this one is so intrusive is crazy - it's like Kawasaki configured the Linked ABS to only work in a straight line).
Now, saying that doesn't mean I'm going to plunk down more cash on a 2014 or 2015. I plan on having this bike for a long while. I didn't buy her to get rid of her in a couple of years. It would be great if factory cruise control could be retrofitted to our bikes. But that's a dream. They'll probably go throttle by wire, and screw that possibility up for us.
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I absolutely agree with them on the C14's linked brakes...horrible! My 2003 VFR had linked brakes and were waaaaay better. And yeah another gal of gas would be nice, not to mention factory cruise control. I checked out the 2013 FJR at the Cycle World Bike show in Cleveland this past weekend and i must say looks very nice in person....
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I'll admit to getting a little giddy at the thought of the Triumph. Then they told me it only had 111HP. What were they thinking?
I will Guhl reflash my ECU and add Cruize to my 2011 and be good I think. With all of my other mods I should be good for a long time.
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The top gear roll-on test is a test that needs to go away. Kawasaki purposely gave the c14 a high 6th gear for comfort on a freeway. Something a big, touring type motorcycle needs. You might choose to drop a gear when passing three semi's. So far, so good.
The drawback to this high gear ratio is the bike gets destroyed in tests. The c14 is loafing along in 6th gear at 3000 rpms instead of being up near 5000 where it starts to make great power. My Ninja 1000 will test very well in thsi roll on test since its screaming (comparatively) at 5000 rpm at 60 mph. The Ninja does have 6 gears, but the feeling is more line 1-2-3-4-4a-4b...but it does test very well.
Close ratio gears are great on a 125 two stroke. Silly on a street bike. Sure, you can change the gearing on the Ninja, but its probably impossible, or cost prohibitive, to ever be able to move 4-5-6 apart for a nice freeway ride.
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They are one and the same. Proper adjustment is the key.
I'm not sure what you mean... the GPS measures altitude via a 3D satellite fix and is accurate to within ~75 feet; it doesn't use a barometric pressure instrument, is unaffected by local high and low pressures induced by weather, and doesn't need to be manually calibrated by the user.
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The top gear roll-on test is a test that needs to go away.
Agree, it's silly. Artificially hamstringing a vehicle in a test is kind of, not-so-smart. I don't understand why they don't just pick a similar ratio gear for all the bikes and roll-on in that gear. With the sweet, sweet shifting of the Concours gear box, it's not like dropping three gears very quickly is even a problem.
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I finally sat down to watch the comparison. I agree that the linked brakes need work. And an off switch.
The Yamaha is as stylish as the C-14, not more. Great brakes and cruise control go a long way.
The Honda is too old. Too outdated to even show up in the ring with these Sport-tourers.
The prices given aren't accurate either. I don't believe anyone on this forum is paying sticker for the C-14s. Not even close.
Bottom line-- I just bought my 3rd C-14 in a row.
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I like the comparison tests, but I'm not sure the results mean much. No matter if our bike takes first or last. My Ninja came with tires that ruined the handling of the bike. My C14 already had good tires, but from the sounds of things, it too would be better off riding on the bare rims than the stock tires.
With a 190/55 and the butterflies removed, the c14 does not do much like a stock bike. I know they rarely mod the bikes, but when something is so drastically changed, for little money, maybe they should??? Same for the other bikes. If they have small, easily corrected flaws it would more represent what an average owner might change or modify.
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The top gear roll-on test is a test that needs to go away. Kawasaki purposely gave the c14 a high 6th gear for comfort on a freeway. Something a big, touring type motorcycle needs. You might choose to drop a gear when passing three semi's. So far, so good.
I couldn't agree more. It is a stupid test that needs to go away. Or they should define "top gear" as the highest gear that is NOT designated as an over-drive.
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I finally sat down to watch the comparison. I agree that the linked brakes need work. And an off switch.
The Yamaha is as stylish as the C-14, not more.
The new FJR is not bad looking, but I still think the 2nd gen Concours 1400 is much nicer looking. There is something very odd about the FJR that I can't put my finger on that ruins it for me... might be it is just to "angular".
Great brakes and cruise control go a long way.
The C-14 *has* great breaks, as long as you overlook the heavy-handed linking. Cruise- well, we can keep dreaming.
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I had my ECU reflashed (including a aftermarket pipe adjustment) and the low end difference is PHENOMENAL - its no big deal - yank it out, mail it off, install it a few days later, and then try to keep the front wheel on the ground in first gear! Would love to see a comparison with the flies open earlier - the C14 would dominate - and - you can make the beast more docile by activating the Eco mode if so inclined.
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Is was said earlier, the C14 works well with a top box. I do not even know it is there. It has a great two up weight rating, similat to the BMW RT. I am a tourer and will not give up hauling ability. My bike is also NOT hot to ride behind (2012). Coming from a touring bike background I appreciate a tall 6th gear and still riding a pretty fresh un-broken-in bike I can get around 50 MPG in ECO on the highway.
My bike needs a different seat and different windshield to offer all day HWY comfort. If I had an itch I just could not scratch I would add a CS one and Guhl reflash--no aftermarket boxes for me.
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Agree, it's silly. Artificially hamstringing a vehicle in a test is kind of, not-so-smart. I don't understand why they don't just pick a similar ratio gear for all the bikes and roll-on in that gear. With the sweet, sweet shifting of the Concours gear box, it's not like dropping three gears very quickly is even a problem.
it's a matter of comfort. It's just a little test that tells the potential buyer if the vehicle has some get-up-and-go on top gear, to avoid having to down-shift. Just give gas and overtake.
The C14 has a loooooooooooong last gear. It's fourth gear is as long as 6th in a BMW K1300S. The discontinued K1300GT was always 2000 rpm above what the C14 at any usable speed and it was "histeric", sort to say, but it had a great roll-on time.
A few magazines compared the K1600GT in 6th (a "real" 6th in that bike, in which the vehicle achieved top speed, not a gear to save fuel) against the C14 in 5th (the speed in which you can reach top speed and also which they claimed was the highest gear that made sense to use on secondary roads), and the roll-on test showed the Kawasaki as the quicker one.
Whether we like it or not, the gearbox on the C14 is long, and secondary flies, as it comes from factory, maim the engine's potential.
As a side note, specially after I drove a few times the K1300S, I started noticing how "slow" (complaining on a stratospheric level) the C14 piles up speed when at, say, 120 mph in the Autobahn. So I decided that when that 911 finally got out of my way, I'd shift down to 4th. Well, let's say that I never again thought of my bike as slow... ;D