Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Tactical_Mik on May 31, 2011, 04:08:34 PM
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Ok, my left caliper is dragging. I had an issue with one of the brake retaining pins on the left caliper. I rebuilt it replacing all the seals and one piston. Bled it and the left caliper still drags. I dissasembled to make sure everything was still good, reassembled and it was still dragging. I decided to take it apart again, clean and hone the rotors and while it was apart, decided to try replacing the caliper in case there was damage I could not see from the retaining pin incident.
I put the new caliper with new pads all the way around and again bled the system. No joy. :'( I am at a loss and can not think of anything else that would cause the left caliper to drag. My right caliper functions as it should. I was hoping to replace my wheel bearings and ride down to Mountain Home/Mountain View this weekend but it doesn't look like that will happen. I would be happy with just having my issue fixed.
Any ideas? Is there a brake dance I need to perform like any of the numberous KIPASS jigs? :)
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Since two separate calipers have performed the same way I would check the crossover hose that goes from the right caliper to the left. Could it be possible that there is something wrong with the hose to where it won't release the pressure even though you bled the system? I could be way off but it might give you something else to troubleshoot.
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I did a visual inspection (not that it would yield any results) and I don't see any damage. I suppose there could be something wrong internally with the hose.
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If you start the KiPass incantation from the second paragraph anything could happen to the bike, including sticky calipers.
Did you change just the caliper and pads or did you change everything in the calipers too (pistons, seals)? If you used the old pistons, I would inspect them very carefully to make sure there is absolutely no ridge on the surface that could be hanging up on a seal or dust seal. If you can push the pistons back into the caliper with bare hands then the pistons should be OK.
Next, did you change the worn pad pins? If not, you may be providing an area for the pad to hang up on by mistake.
Finally, if it is not mechanical and the brakes are still dragging, it must be hydraulic pressure. Make absolutely sure the master cylinder piston is returning all the way to the home or retracted position. Make sure all passages in the master cylinder are clear; one tiny piece of seal or any type of debris can clog a cylinder port and allow pressure to be retained in the slave side of the system.
It also could be something really odd like a twisted caliper mounting tab on the front fork; this could allow the caliper to sit at an angle to the rotor and <perhaps> cause some odd kind of force between the pads and the caliper. Check too to see if the pads slide easily inside the caliper.
Frankly I am perplexed as to what is causing your brake problems and suspect some underlying, and undiagnosed, cause. Wearing the pad pins is odd in the first place but to have a new caliper (and I assume pistons and seals) and pads bind is really suspect. Modern brakes are usually fantastically reliable so you having two different problems after changing calipers makes me think the root cause is still there. You could try reverse flushing the system to see if there is a piece of debris somewhere in a line or something, or take the lines completely off and flush them individually.
Brian
Ok, my left caliper is dragging. I had an issue with one of the brake retaining pins on the left caliper. I rebuilt it replacing all the seals and one piston. Bled it and the left caliper still drags. I dissasembled to make sure everything was still good, reassembled and it was still dragging. I decided to take it apart again, clean and hone the rotors and while it was apart, decided to try replacing the caliper in case there was damage I could not see from the retaining pin incident.
I put the new caliper with new pads all the way around and again bled the system. No joy. :'( I am at a loss and can not think of anything else that would cause the left caliper to drag. My right caliper functions as it should. I was hoping to replace my wheel bearings and ride down to Mountain Home/Mountain View this weekend but it doesn't look like that will happen. I would be happy with just having my issue fixed.
Any ideas? Is there a brake dance I need to perform like any of the numberous KIPASS jigs? :)
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I put the new brake pads in with the new caliper. It came complete and pre-assembled with seals and pistons. The original caliper is apart again in my garage. I didn't give much thought to the master cylinder because my brain was telling me that both front brakes would drag should there be a blockage there. I guess, I will dissasemble the front lines etc. this weekend. If I can't figure it out I guess a trip to the shop will be in order. :'( I suppose that is what warranty is for but I won't like it if the brakes are able to beat me. :)
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What year bike?
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OK, with a new caliper assembly, complete with all moving parts, and only one caliper dragging, I can only think of two things. The very unlikely one is that there is something seriously wrong with the caliper mount itself and the caliper is significantly misaligned or very crooked on the disc. Are you the guy who had a pad drop out of the caliper and the piston wear against the rotor? If so, that might have misaligned the caliper by twisting the mount on the fork.
The only other thing is some type of fluid blockage between the calipers. Something in the line or more likely, at the end of a line that is holding residual pressure. Even this is not common at all but we are running out of possibilities. I would suggest taking the cross- over hose off both calipers, inspecting it carefully for some debris and then flushing it thoroughly. Then check the ports area of both calipers to make sure they are clear. Hopefully you will find something.
If both calipers are dragging slightly then I would suspect the master cylinder, and that would be more likely to have a problem than a hose IMO. Of course with a small amount of pressure left in the lines one caliper could drag worse than the other and make it seem as though only one were dragging.
Brian
I put the new brake pads in with the new caliper. It came complete and pre-assembled with seals and pistons. The original caliper is apart again in my garage. I didn't give much thought to the master cylinder because my brain was telling me that both front brakes would drag should there be a blockage there. I guess, I will dissasemble the front lines etc. this weekend. If I can't figure it out I guess a trip to the shop will be in order. :'( I suppose that is what warranty is for but I won't like it if the brakes are able to beat me. :)
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I don't have an answer yet, but I have the same uneven wear problem on my '08. My RH caliper pads wear at least 2x faster than the LH pads and all the components appear to be fine (rotors are true, mounts are straight, pistons/seals are good, m/c is clear,etc). Braking performance is very good but I have gone through 3 sets of pads in the last 10-12k mi, but only on the RH side (I rotate the LH pads over to the RH caliper and put the new pads in the LH caliper). Like you, I now believe I have eliminated all possibilities except for the lines themselves. Honestly I just need to get off my butt and order some custom Superbike or Superlight lines from Galfer.
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OK, with a new caliper assembly, complete with all moving parts, and only one caliper dragging, I can only think of two things. The very unlikely one is that there is something seriously wrong with the caliper mount itself and the caliper is significantly misaligned or very crooked on the disc. Are you the guy who had a pad drop out of the caliper and the piston wear against the rotor? If so, that might have misaligned the caliper by twisting the mount on the fork.
Actually, I think that was Lather...
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I'm asking about the year as the piping changed for the '10 models vs the previous years. There is no crossover pipe on the '10s on up. Looks like there is a junction box that feeds both calipers with separate lines. There isn't too much fluid in the master cylinder? Although, one would think that it would cause issues with both calipers.
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Can you Define "dragging"? the pads should lightly touch the disk and would make a light scraping sound when the wheel is rotated. Do yours drag enough to prevent the wheel from turning? And do the disks get hot from the dragging?
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The bike is an 09. I define dragging for the topic at hand as.....I can drive a mile with out ever touching the front brakes, coast to a stop with light rear brake only, putting the side stand down and if you put fingers to both front rotors, your right hand (grabbing the left rotor) will get burned if you hold it there for more than a second. The left rotor will be blueish in color. Hope that is descriptive enough.
I have enough fluid in the master to be halfway between the full line and minimum line.
I am the one that the shop, or me I suppose, stripped the brake pad retaining pin which allowed one of the pads to fall out destroying the piston. When I replaced the seals and piston in that caliper, I found no evidence of the piston bore being scored.
Hope that answered all the questions. It's annoying that I have not been able to figure it out yet. In what will probably be a vain attempt, I bled the front system again today when I got off work. I haven't done anything else and can not disassemble it until my weekend as this is my transportation. Just for your grins, now when I touch the front brake lever at any speed above 40ish, the front end shakes quite bad. That would be BAD.
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Well, that sounds like dragging brakes to me. Disc brakes do not have return springs but should run with a minimal clearance and should not get hot if they are not used.
You mention the right rotor being hot and the left rotor being bluish- is the blue coloring happening on each ride or is it just the result of some past incident. Is the right rotor hot or warm to the touch when the left one is hot?
Can you rotate the front wheel freely when the bike is on the center stand? It should go at least one revolution or so after being spun by hand only.
You could try to isolate the cause to either a mechanical or hydraulic root by cracking open the hydraulic system and then unbolting each caliper being careful not to disturb or bump the caliper while doing it. Then see if the caliper slides freely off the rotor: if it does, then I would suspect a hydraulic problem, if not then the problem is probably mechanical and caused directly by the sticky caliper.
Brian
The bike is an 09. I define dragging for the topic at hand as.....I can drive a mile with out ever touching the front brakes, coast to a stop with light rear brake only, putting the side stand down and if you put fingers to both front rotors, your right hand (grabbing the left rotor) will get burned if you hold it there for more than a second. The left rotor will be blueish in color. Hope that is descriptive enough.
I have enough fluid in the master to be halfway between the full line and minimum line.
I am the one that the shop, or me I suppose, stripped the brake pad retaining pin which allowed one of the pads to fall out destroying the piston. When I replaced the seals and piston in that caliper, I found no evidence of the piston bore being scored.
Hope that answered all the questions. It's annoying that I have not been able to figure it out yet. In what will probably be a vain attempt, I bled the front system again today when I got off work. I haven't done anything else and can not disassemble it until my weekend as this is my transportation. Just for your grins, now when I touch the front brake lever at any speed above 40ish, the front end shakes quite bad. That would be BAD.
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Other than a twisted mount all you got left is the rotor. Have you switched that over to the other side and see if the problem follows?
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It would not hurt anything to swap rotors but a rotor cannot cause dragging disc brakes. The rotor(s) are the passive part of disc brakes and can only impact the operation of the active parts (the calipers including the pads, which squeeze the rotor) rather than cause anything directly to happen. Even a badly warped rotor can only shake the caliper when pressure is applied to the rotor- when freewheeling down the road the rotor cannot impart any forces or actions to the caliper.
Brian
Other than a twisted mount all you got left is the rotor. Have you switched that over to the other side and see if the problem follows?
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Ok, other than that I got nothin....
There was no problem before the 'incident'. This happened afterward. Could the 'incident' have twisted the fork on that side?
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Sorry for the confusion, your right fingers, squatting in front of the bike will get burned should you hold the left caliper for more than a second or so. The right rotor would be cool to the touch. Only the left rotor would be blueish.
I have held the front end up, spinning the tire. While it will spin for a revolution, sometimes two, I can clearly see the deceleration of the tire and am able to discern the pad noise coming from the left caliper.
I will try releasing the bleed valve momentarily and see if any fluid is pushed out and if the caliper pressure is decreased.
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Ok, other than that I got nothin....
There was no problem before the 'incident'. This happened afterward. Could the 'incident' have twisted the fork on that side?
I had no issues other than the warped or dirty rotors beforehand. I assumed the shake was caused by pad build up as I cleaned and honed them and the vibes were gone for a couple of miles. If they weren't warped before, I am pretty sure my left one is now. I don't see the rotor taking the constant abuse and surviving but I won't know until after I figure out the dragging issue.
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Well, I knew it would come to this.....bleeding. Good for what ails you. Leeches will help. Seriously though, it would be interesting to see if we have an arterial bleed when the bleeder is cracked.
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Well, took a spin and when I got back and opened the bleed valve, I did have fluid coming out. For the first split second it came out with just enough force to clear the top of the bleed valve by about 1/4 ish inch then slowed to a dribble. I closed the valve, lifted the front wheel and gave it a spin, didn't notice any difference in resistance. With out touching the brake lever I opened the valve again and allowed somehwere around a 1/4 teaspoon of fluid to escape then closed the valve again. When I spun the front wheel it seemed like less resistance. I know that is a pretty subjective test but those are the results I found for what it's worth.
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I assume you opened the bleeder on the caliper rather than the one at the handlebars? If so, there will always be a little pressure there because it is low in the system; if you left a lower bleeder open overnight the system would empty itself. To check the system for pressure, you will probably want to re-test by bleeding the system, riding the bike and then opening up the top most bleeder.
I want full credit for not making a funny about the spurt followed by a dribble..... ;)
Brian
Well, took a spin and when I got back and opened the bleed valve, I did have fluid coming out. For the first split second it came out with just enough force to clear the top of the bleed valve by about 1/4 ish inch then slowed to a dribble. I closed the valve, lifted the front wheel and gave it a spin, didn't notice any difference in resistance. With out touching the brake lever I opened the valve again and allowed somehwere around a 1/4 teaspoon of fluid to escape then closed the valve again. When I spun the front wheel it seemed like less resistance. I know that is a pretty subjective test but those are the results I found for what it's worth.
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I didn't try at the master because the right caliper doesn't drag. My thinking was that while gravity would have it's way, the initial overpressure would be obvious. While I think that might have worked, given the slightly more exuberant start ending in my dribble, :) I don't know if it really means anything.
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I assume you opened the bleeder on the caliper rather than the one at the handlebars? If so, there will always be a little pressure there because it is low in the system; if you left a lower bleeder open overnight the system would empty itself. To check the system for pressure, you will probably want to re-test by bleeding the system, riding the bike and then opening up the top most bleeder.
I want full credit for not making a funny about the spurt followed by a dribble..... ;)
Brian
Credit noted....
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I agree- it would be really hard to tell what was going on by cracking the bleeder unless the fluid hit the ceiling.
I am also out of guesses. ??? The only thing I can say is that it would be highly unusual for one side of a hydraulic circuit would pressurize and not release while the other side did. One of the advantages of hydraulics is that all pressures and (assuming the same area pistons) forces will always equal; that is why they can put pistons on both sides of the rotor and have the pads squeeze evenly. If there was any imbalance at all the pistons on one side would simply push the rotor as far as it could to the other side, including into the caliper.
Definition of hydraulics: Ancient Egyptian writing form found inside tombs.
Brian
I didn't try at the master because the right caliper doesn't drag. My thinking was that while gravity would have it's way, the initial overpressure would be obvious. While I think that might have worked, given the slightly more exuberant start ending in my dribble, :) I don't know if it really means anything.
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You could try cracking the bleeder on the other side and see if you get the same result I guess.
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I was thinking that maybe something in the crossover line might be messed up, acting kind of like a check valve but one that leaked. I'm out of guesses myself. I am tempted to get a cross over line headed my way, continue with a disassembly on my weekend, reassemble and wait for the line to come in. However, I don't really like throwing parts at it until I stumble upon the issue. I suppose I should probably take it apart and see if I can find anything and if not, schedule a shop visit. It would appear that this issue has beaten me. :(
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Actually, I think that was Lather...
No. Lather was the guy who put a pad in backwards.
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Loosen (slacken if your British) the axle nut and the left axle clamp bolts. Then spin the wheel and see if the brakes still drag on the left. Read the procedure for installing front wheel section 10-7.
I am thinking if the axle is not properly seated/installed the left fork could be in a bind and the caliper and rotor not perfectly parallel. Or some such. Maybe worth a try since it looks like we are out of other guesses.
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I'll give it a try when I get home from work today. At least it will give me something new to try.
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No. Lather was the guy who put a pad in backwards.
At least it was something to do with brakes...what took you so long to chime in?
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OK, one more thought- the caliper that is dragging is new, right? The other caliper is original. So perhaps there is some pressure in the whole system but the old caliper is sticky enough to resist piston movement at those low pressures but the new one does move the pistons and pads toward the rotors. That would at least explain how there could be a small amount of pressure in the whole hydraulic system. And all of that makes me suspect the master cylinder again.... or still.
I just don’t like the idea of a piece of debris making a check- valve in ½ of the system. It is hard enough to make a check valve that does not leak when you need one, never mind making one out of crud by mistake.
Brian
I was thinking that maybe something in the crossover line might be messed up, acting kind of like a check valve but one that leaked. I'm out of guesses myself. I am tempted to get a cross over line headed my way, continue with a disassembly on my weekend, reassemble and wait for the line to come in. However, I don't really like throwing parts at it until I stumble upon the issue. I suppose I should probably take it apart and see if I can find anything and if not, schedule a shop visit. It would appear that this issue has beaten me. :(
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At least it was something to do with brakes...what took you so long to chime in?
I am still getting used to the new url.
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The check valve thing was more thinking out loud. It's less than likely and I flush my brake system about every six months to keep corrosion down. More often than needed but I am generally a stickler for the PMing. Corps thing I suppose. If all works out as planned, tomorrow or Saturday I will take the lines apart and give them a good flushing/inspection. Might just take apart the right caliper as well just to see what I see.
It's entirely too hot and muggy for me to sweat in the garage resetting the wheel in the forks so that experiment will have to wait until tomorrow. A little suspense for Lather's suggestion. :)
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Well, make sure your forks are parallel while you're at it. I can't believe the new caliper needs to be looked at. It's something external to that. It has to be.
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Ok so it's not Saturday....
I checks wheel alignment and all is fine there. Was going to take the brake lines apart but thought I would clean/hone rotors again first. Got that done and decided while there I would check TIR. I am at .022 :yikes: I stopped and reassembled, called a shop and will get in tomorrow to have them confirm and order me some waranteed rotor(s). Being that far out of spec may likely be my only issue. Will find out after a couple of weeks when I get them replaced. Here is a pic (not great) with gypsum on the rotor except for the "high" spot. Not real easy to see but.....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--aHU9HGbJBA/TekR1RmWq1I/AAAAAAAAAsA/4jbapM-Hlzo/s800/SANY0086.JPG)
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Wow, that would be visible to the naked eye. From some distance away.... :)
Yep, that is probably your problem- the rotor is moving sideways far enough to bump into the pad on either side as it rotates.
Brian
Ok so it's not Saturday....
I checks wheel alignment and all is fine there. Was going to take the brake lines apart but thought I would clean/hone rotors again first. Got that done and decided while there I would check TIR. I am at .022 :yikes: I stopped and reassembled, called a shop and will get in tomorrow to have them confirm and order me some waranteed rotor(s). Being that far out of spec may likely be my only issue. Will find out after a couple of weeks when I get them replaced. Here is a pic (not great) with gypsum on the rotor except for the "high" spot. Not real easy to see but.....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--aHU9HGbJBA/TekR1RmWq1I/AAAAAAAAAsA/4jbapM-Hlzo/s800/SANY0086.JPG)
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I think I mentioned the rotor ploy a few posts back....let me check.....yes I did. ;) That would be great if that's it after all the OP has gone through.
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Yeah, and it was me who said a rotor cannot cause dragging brakes. That'll teach me to speak in absolutes. OK, how about a rotor running just a little straighter than a dog's hind leg cannot cause brake drag? Or, a rotor that a blind man straightened with a sledgehammer cannot cause dragging brakes?
(http://zggtr.org/Smileys/default/yikes.gif)
Brian
I think I mentioned the rotor ploy a few posts back....let me check.....yes I did. ;) That would be great if that's it after all the OP has gone through.
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My TIR was (February) in spec at 0.007. Since I have only put on about 2000 miles I never gave a thought to checking it again. I could be wrong but I believe that the HUGE warp in the rotor is causing the pads to cavitate wildly. But again, I could be wrong. ;D
In a few weeks, hopefully less, when I get a rotor or two on there I'll go back to make sure I don't have a pressure issue but I highly doubt it. This should end my epic brake dragging saga. Now I need to find something else wrong that I can misdiagnose. :P
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A coupla things come to mind here, semi-floating rotor buttons tend to become non-floating pretty quickly! Causing the rotor to lock into a position that most likely ain't good. Thus your run-out.
Also calipers need to be positioned so the rotor runs through the caliper casting pretty close to the center of the casting. Otherwise you get a rotor that could be shaving the caliper at worst or just off-center so much that the pistons on one side are too far out of their bores (extended) while the other side is barely moving at all. Go look straight at the caliper from the front of the bike looking back and see if the rotor is shifted to one side or the other. Guarantee that just about all the bikes on this board will be off somewhat! This is a function of where the pinch/axle bolts are holding the bottom of the fork tubes, all it takes it one tip over or a wheel change where the mech did not bother to center the fork legs on the axle.
So.... lube the snot out of the carrier buttons and work them free with your hands, thus making them semi-floating again (very important).
Next... check that the rotor/wheel assy is centered in the caliper casting as above. This can be done by releasing the pressure in the hydraulic/brake system, loosening all the triple clamp bolts slightly as well as the axle and pinch bolts and re-tighten (using correct torque) everything so as to end up with a triple clamp > forks > axle > caliper/rotor alignment.
Fretka
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The spacing and positioning on all components of the front end that mount using the axle are fixed. There is no adjustment. Putting everything together and snugging the axle nut down pinches all components against each other; it is a function of each component's size that sets the spacing of each <next> component. The rotors cannot be positioned anywhere other than where the stack- up tolerances put them, and the only way to change the location of the rotors would be to change the relationship machined into each fork leg between the caliper mounting bosses and the axle clamp position (the inside of the fork leg where it is machined to rest against the front bearing spacers), change the size of the spacer tube between the two front wheel bearings, or change the size of the front wheel bearing spacers.
The short version is that the axle pinches all of the components down to the actual size of all of the components.
The only variable is the excess clearance around the two caliper mounting bolts which does allow the caliper to be moved slightly when attaching them to the forks.
Brian
A coupla things come to mind here, semi-floating rotor buttons tend to become non-floating pretty quickly! Causing the rotor to lock into a position that most likely ain't good. Thus your run-out.
Also calipers need to be positioned so the rotor runs through the caliper casting pretty close to the center of the casting. Otherwise you get a rotor that could be shaving the caliper at worst or just off-center so much that the pistons on one side are too far out of their bores (extended) while the other side is barely moving at all. Go look straight at the caliper from the front of the bike looking back and see if the rotor is shifted to one side or the other. Guarantee that just about all the bikes on this board will be off somewhat! This is a function of where the pinch/axle bolts are holding the bottom of the fork tubes, all it takes it one tip over or a wheel change where the mech did not bother to center the fork legs on the axle.
So.... lube the snot out of the carrier buttons and work them free with your hands, thus making them semi-floating again (very important).
Next... check that the rotor/wheel assy is centered in the caliper casting as above. This can be done by releasing the pressure in the hydraulic/brake system, loosening all the triple clamp bolts slightly as well as the axle and pinch bolts and re-tighten (using correct torque) everything so as to end up with a triple clamp > forks > axle > caliper/rotor alignment.
Fretka
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1 fork leg actually floats, not sure what leg as I am not looking at my bike at the moment, but you can get one leg and that same caliper out of alignment. After you tighten the pinch bolts it won't move.
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You guys are going to make me go look. I have not removed or loosened the left side clamp bolts in a long time; when I take the front wheel off I just loosen the right side clamp bolts and remove the axle. Drawing the axle tight brings everything attached to the axle tight against the other side. If there is any float in the system it must be on the left fork tube where the axle nut goes through the fork lower. ???
Brian
1 fork leg actually floats, not sure what leg as I am not looking at my bike at the moment, but you can get one leg and that same caliper out of alignment. After you tighten the pinch bolts it won't move.
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If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!
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Yes I do and I have done the front end bouncing thing without really believing it. It struck me like someone in Japan was shaking his / her head and laughing over this....
The first couple of times I took the wheel off I tightened the axle and axle nut with two different wrenches and everything bound together as I remember. That is what had me question the whole 'bounce' procedure because it seemed as if the entire front end was captured by the flanges on the axle and axle nut. Then again, I don't remember any motorcycle front end with any float. But of course I could be wrong too. ?
Brian
If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!
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If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!
That's what I was talking about. I am not clear on why but assumje Kawasaki has a reason for specifying this procedure. The fork situation is possibly similar with my '99 VFR. The manual specifies that you check for minimum clearance (.7 mm) of caliper to rotor clearance on one side after front wheel installation. A .7mm feeler gauge is even included in the tool kit.
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A long time ago a rider was in SEA on a quest for for some good Amboyan Burl. He noticed that his front tire was wearing a bit thin so he found a place where one could remove the wheel to ready it for a good tire shop. He flagged down an old Dodge pickup driven by a papa san. He was careful to lay the wheel in the back but being new to two rotor front wheels he left them mounted on said wheel. The tire shop appeared to be good and the wheel was re-shod with rubber of the best kind and the TP sensor was still in working condition. The wheel was mounted to the bike and he continued on his quest for the best of Burls.. After a bit he noticed strangeness in the front brake lever in that it would appear at times to not have any braking force and then the lever would appear whole again. He thought this strange but the quest kept his attention more than the lever. He was also male and could not focus on two things at once but alas the strangest of noises emanated from the front wheel. Metal on metal sounds it did make. Upon further inspection the pads on one side were down to the base. A most unfortunate circumstance indeed as the remaining funds for the quest equaled the cost of a new rotor... The quest was ended without Burl, but the brakes, they were whole again without noise and strangeness in the lever. The quest will continue some day for the elusive Burl....
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There! Up in the tree! Why dat's a good ole, fashioned crotch burl....
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/401px-Quoddy_burl.jpg)
Yeah, I know, offtopic.
Brian
A long time ago a rider was in SEA on a quest for for some good Amboyan Burl.
<snip>
The quest will continue some day for the elusive Burl....
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So what. It ain't SEA. I don't remember any pine trees there. It don't count.
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I can't tell one burl from another.... :-\
Brian
So what. It ain't SEA. I don't remember any pine trees there. It don't count.
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I have changed out my tires 5 times in the 21,xxx miles and until this issue started poking me, I never released the left side pinch bolts to remove the wheel. I did, while taking suggestions from you all, redo the mount following the manuals specific instructions. Of course I, then removed the wheel to clean etc. check tir etc. Not sure if the specified precedure has benefit. I am like Brian and don't see that if could make any difference as the flanges on the axle and axle nut are what's used to locate the front end.
Maybe the manual procedure should be titled "anti-warpage,no brake draggib', rotor bliss, pixie's dance" or something like that.
Better yet, Kawasaki should have shaped the calipers like Shishi, that way the evil spirits would have stayed away. :)
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A coupla things come to mind here, semi-floating rotor buttons tend to become non-floating pretty quickly! Causing the rotor to lock into a position that most likely ain't good. Thus your run-out.
Also calipers need to be positioned so the rotor runs through the caliper casting pretty close to the center of the casting. Otherwise you get a rotor that could be shaving the caliper at worst or just off-center so much that the pistons on one side are too far out of their bores (extended) while the other side is barely moving at all. Go look straight at the caliper from the front of the bike looking back and see if the rotor is shifted to one side or the other. Guarantee that just about all the bikes on this board will be off somewhat! This is a function of where the pinch/axle bolts are holding the bottom of the fork tubes, all it takes it one tip over or a wheel change where the mech did not bother to center the fork legs on the axle.
So.... lube the snot out of the carrier buttons and work them free with your hands, thus making them semi-floating again (very important).
Next... check that the rotor/wheel assy is centered in the caliper casting as above. This can be done by releasing the pressure in the hydraulic/brake system, loosening all the triple clamp bolts slightly as well as the axle and pinch bolts and re-tighten (using correct torque) everything so as to end up with a triple clamp > forks > axle > caliper/rotor alignment.
Fretka
I've often wondered about this. I take my rotors off anytime I'm changing tires because I know I'll bang them into something and ruin them. :P I have noticed that the buttons between the rotors and carriers are always tight. I never really knew if they should be lose enough that you can move them with your fingers or not. Since they are supposed to be floating rotors I would think they should be lose. If this is the case, then I'll go spend a little time lubing them up today so that each one is free to move. So far my brakes have been trouble free, but I'd like to keep it that way. What do you guys think? Are yours lose enough that you can move them freely? Thanks.
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Well, rode over to Wichita today to have the rotors checked out. The one mech who knows how to use a dial indicator is off and wont be back until Tuesday. At least I got IHOP breakfast out of the ride. To be continued......
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I can't move mine at all... I'm button challenged. How do we 'free' them up without introducing a warpage? Warp is only good on the Enterprise.
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I believe the rotor retaining buttons on stock C-14 rotors are 'semi- floating' which means you can move them but only with tools. They are a sort of press- fit in the pockets and are somewhat distorted after being inserted. Only true 'free floating' buttons on some after market rotor brands will actually move with nothing but finger pressure.
Brian
I can't move mine at all... I'm button challenged. How do we 'free' them up without introducing a warpage? Warp is only good on the Enterprise.
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Thanks for the button lesson guys.
Back on topic: I hope you get your rotors fixed and that eliminates the dragging you're getting.
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Had to go in today, after another delay. The one person who knew how to run a dial indicator made it halfway around the wheel then stopped saying it was out of spec. They are ordering a rotor for the left side of my wheel. I suggested that I could install it since they are so busy but no joy. Hopefully, I will have it replaced with enough time before my summer trip to make sure that solves the dragging issue. It's a step forward any way.
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Left side, why is it mostly the left side?