Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: tjpgi on December 17, 2012, 02:49:10 PM
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Are you or your dealer going to perform the valve check? What mileage? Have you already had it done? Mileage and results?
How do you classify your riding style? Always above 10,000 RPM? Never above 4,000 RPM? I don't drive it, I just clean it and admire it with a beer every night!
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You should change the vote options to better answer the question you were asking. Also, adding a link to the discussion that prompted the poll (for context) would be good too.
For the options, perhaps 'Did it myself', 'Will do it myself', 'Had dealer do it', 'Will have dealer do it', 'Will never do it (head in the sand)'. Just a thought.
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Are you or your dealer going to perform the valve check? What mileage? Have you already had it done? Mileage and results?
How do you classify your riding style? Always above 10,000 RPM? Never above 4,000 RPM? I don't drive it, I just clean it and admire it with a beer every night!
Yes. 25000. Yes. 13500 and 15 out of the 16 need to be changed. Ride it like a motorcycle should be ridden. No. No. Ride it every day, rain or shine or moonlight, until the salt gets on the road then gets put away till spring. (subjective) I never clean it anymore, but still admire it with a beer, wine, rum, vodka, or scotch in hand.
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:thumbs:
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0)
Link to the other valve adjustment thread discussion.
I did mine really early the first time, 6,700 miles. It happened to coincide with the first winter and 3 months of it sitting. 13 out of 16 were at or just below the bottom end of spec, adjusted all 16 to the center of spec. What was more troubling was the throttle body sync was so far off I had to pull the adjuster screws and clean the tips and passageways to get them back in sync.
Did them again at 19,xxx. Again coincided with winter. 11 out of 16 required adjustment. I also repacked the steering head bearings, changed the fork oil, all those rear suspension linkages were disassembled, cleaned and lubed etc. Lubed the cables and flushed the brake and clutch fluids.The throttle body sync was real close this time
The next time the bike had 36,xxx and 7 out of 16 needed adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync needed no adjustment
This last time was at 55,xxx and only 5 required adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync again needed no adjustment
The bike now sits at just over 70,000 and with winter upon us again I will once again go in and make the proper adjustments.
I do them myself because I have the tools, the skills and the time to do so.
I ride mostly between 4000 and 9000 rpm's, twisty spirited riding for 4-500 miles at a crack on the weekends where I wear out tires about every 4500 miles or so.
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0)
Link to the other valve adjustment thread discussion.
I did mine really early the first time, 6,700 miles. It happened to coincide with the first winter and 3 months of it sitting. 13 out of 16 were at or just below the bottom end of spec, adjusted all 16 to the center of spec. What was more troubling was the throttle body sync was so far off I had to pull the adjuster screws and clean the tips and passageways to get them back in sync.
Did them again at 19,xxx. Again coincided with winter. 11 out of 16 required adjustment. I also repacked the steering head bearings, changed the fork oil, all those rear suspension linkages were disassembled, cleaned and lubed etc. Lubed the cables and flushed the brake and clutch fluids.The throttle body sync was real close this time
The next time the bike had 36,xxx and 7 out of 16 needed adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync needed no adjustment
This last time was at 55,xxx and only 5 required adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync again needed no adjustment
The bike now sits at just over 70,000 and with winter upon us again I will once again go in and make the proper adjustments.
I do them myself because I have the tools, the skills and the time to do so.
I ride mostly between 4000 and 9000 rpm's, twisty spirited riding for 4-500 miles at a crack on the weekends where I wear out tires about every 4500 miles or so.
Needed adjustment because they were out of spec completely, or "needed" adjustment because they weren't in the middle of the spec range? There is a difference.
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My first ride in the New Year will be from home to my Kawi Dealer to have the valves done , plugs checked , new air filter and replace my worn Pirelli Angels. Going to give the PR3'S a try.
Bike has 38k km or almost 24k miles. Always run full synthetic. May go with the Kawi brand next year to try it out instead of the Amsoil.
Warranty good until August, no major issues thus far but want these things done as I plan on putting alot of miles on the bike and keep it a long long time.
I'll report back when it's all been done.
t
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Yes. 25000. Yes. 13500 and 15 out of the 16 need to be changed. Ride it like a motorcycle should be ridden. No. No. Ride it every day, rain or shine or moonlight, until the salt gets on the road then gets put away till spring. (subjective) I never clean it anymore, but still admire it with a beer, wine, rum, vodka, or scotch in hand.
:( What do you have against Bourbon?
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11619.0)
Link to the other valve adjustment thread discussion.
I did mine really early the first time, 6,700 miles. It happened to coincide with the first winter and 3 months of it sitting. 13 out of 16 were at or just below the bottom end of spec, adjusted all 16 to the center of spec. What was more troubling was the throttle body sync was so far off I had to pull the adjuster screws and clean the tips and passageways to get them back in sync.
Did them again at 19,xxx. Again coincided with winter. 11 out of 16 required adjustment. I also repacked the steering head bearings, changed the fork oil, all those rear suspension linkages were disassembled, cleaned and lubed etc. Lubed the cables and flushed the brake and clutch fluids.The throttle body sync was real close this time
The next time the bike had 36,xxx and 7 out of 16 needed adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync needed no adjustment
This last time was at 55,xxx and only 5 required adjusting, TPS and throttle body sync again needed no adjustment
The bike now sits at just over 70,000 and with winter upon us again I will once again go in and make the proper adjustments.
I do them myself because I have the tools, the skills and the time to do so.
I ride mostly between 4000 and 9000 rpm's, twisty spirited riding for 4-500 miles at a crack on the weekends where I wear out tires about every 4500 miles or so.
You need a winter hobby, like snowmobiling. ;D
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:( What do you have against Bourbon?
Didn't want people to think I was lush...
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Needed adjustment because they were out of spec completely, or "needed" adjustment because they weren't in the middle of the spec range? There is a difference.
Does it matter? IS there really a difference?
If after 13,000 miles (or whichever of my adjustment intervals you wish to quote) the clearances move from the middle to the bottom or slightly below there is no way that I would button it back up and say "its all good", "its close enough". What do you suppose would happen before the next time I got in there? They would move even more and be well out of spec.
My philosophy is simple, Do it right the first time !
Leaving valves at the bottom even if within spec, yet they moved nearly .002" tighter than they were is not practicing good maitenance or logic skills. Half the job is in getting everything off and out of the way- finish the job and do it properly !
But to answer your question, re-read the post, the first adjustment they were out of spec, either below spec or right on the limit, as stated. Doesn't really matter though, THEY REQUIRED ADJUSTING.
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Does it matter? IS there really a difference?
If after 13,000 miles (or whichever of my adjustment intervals you wish to quote) the clearances move from the middle to the bottom or slightly below there is no way that I would button it back up and say "its all good", "its close enough". What do you suppose would happen before the next time I got in there? They would move even more and be well out of spec.
My philosophy is simple, Do it right the first time !
Leaving valves at the bottom even if within spec, yet they moved nearly .002" tighter than they were is not practicing good maitenance or logic skills. Half the job is in getting everything off and out of the way- finish the job and do it properly !
But to answer your question, re-read the post, the first adjustment they were out of spec, either below spec or right on the limit, as stated. Doesn't really matter though, THEY REQUIRED ADJUSTING.
Yes, there is a difference. I wanted to know if they were out of spec, or in spec and just not in the center of spec. That is all. If I tear it apart and it is at the far end of a spec, I'll adjust it, but that isn't what I asked. What I asked, is if it was adjusted because it what out of spec, or in spec but not in the center of spec. I asked for the purpose of seeing if the valves had moved out of spec or not. That is all. I just asked so that we could understand if his bike had valves that were out of spec for that interval for the purpose of discussion and so that we could have some data for another bike's valves and how the gap changes, or doesn't. Is that okay for you? ::) And if they are in spec, but adjusted anyway, they don't NEED ADJUSTMENT ad you so eloquently stated, it is just better to adjust them while you have it apart since it is a lot of work to do it. If it were out of spec, you would need to adjust it. I am just asking so that I know how his bike/valves wore and changed at that mileage.
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Didn't want people to think I was lush...
Lush away......Kentucky bourbon is the king. And I am not worried in the least bit about my valves.
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Lush away......Kentucky bourbon is the king. And I am not worried in the least bit about my valves.
True. I'm not worried about my valves either, I have adjusted them twice so far. My last liver profile was normal too.
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Unfortunately this is another one of those hot topics with a lot of opinions and little to no <valid> data.
A lot of people have checked their valve lash and found it to be on the edge of spec's or out of spec at a given mileage and just assume that it moved steadily that way from the center of tolerance over the miles ridden. I do not believe that is the case and without having checked at regular intervals beforehand, there is just no way to know. Also, it seems that most people assume that Kawasaki set the lash to the center of the spec and that is just not the case; all manufacturers use the tolerance given and would happily accept a lash setting anywhere (even at the edge of the range) w/in tolerance.
I checked the lash on my C-14 for the first time at 25K miles and found them all w/in tolerance although some intake valves were close to or right on the lower limit; I did not pull the cams or change any shims. Checking again at 50K miles showed the same results except that none were closer than a half- thousandth of an inch (0.0005") to the lower limit. I skipped the 75K check and will not look again until 100K miles (bike currently is approaching 80K miles).
I think the greatest amount of lash change, say 90% of it, is in the first 500 or 1,000 miles due to parts moving against moving, mating parts ('breaking in' or 'bedding in'). So when the lash is found at an upper or lower limit, or even outside the limits at, say, 15,000 miles it had been there for the last 14,000 miles or more. Shim under bucket systems are really quite rugged and do not tend to change much over time unless really worked hard (high RPM, lots of combustion chamber heat, lots of throttle most of the time) and even then the majority of wear is the valve seat rather than the rest of the valve train parts. And modern valve faces and valve seats are really quite hard to cope with unleaded fuel so even that wear is much, much less than it was before leaded fuel was no longer available in the US. (lead is a very good extreme pressure lubricant)
Brian
Are you or your dealer going to perform the valve check? What mileage? Have you already had it done? Mileage and results?
How do you classify your riding style? Always above 10,000 RPM? Never above 4,000 RPM? I don't drive it, I just clean it and admire it with a beer every night!
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search tool
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Unfortunately this is another one of those hot topics with a lot of opinions and little to no <valid> data.
A lot of people have checked their valve lash and found it to be on the edge of spec's or out of spec at a given mileage and just assume that it moved steadily that way from the center of tolerance over the miles ridden. I do not believe that is the case and without having checked at regular intervals beforehand, there is just no way to know. Also, it seems that most people assume that Kawasaki set the lash to the center of the spec and that is just not the case; all manufacturers use the tolerance given and would happily accept a lash setting anywhere (even at the edge of the range) w/in tolerance.
I checked the lash on my C-14 for the first time at 25K miles and found them all w/in tolerance although some intake valves were close to or right on the lower limit; I did not pull the cams or change any shims. Checking again at 50K miles showed the same results except that none were closer than a half- thousandth of an inch (0.0005") to the lower limit. I skipped the 75K check and will not look again until 100K miles (bike currently is approaching 80K miles).
I think the greatest amount of lash change, say 90% of it, is in the first 500 or 1,000 miles due to parts moving against moving, mating parts ('breaking in' or 'bedding in'). So when the lash is found at an upper or lower limit, or even outside the limits at, say, 15,000 miles it had been there for the last 14,000 miles or more. Shim under bucket systems are really quite rugged and do not tend to change much over time unless really worked hard (high RPM, lots of combustion chamber heat, lots of throttle most of the time) and even then the majority of wear is the valve seat rather than the rest of the valve train parts. And modern valve faces and valve seats are really quite hard to cope with unleaded fuel so even that wear is much, much less than it was before leaded fuel was no longer available in the US. (lead is a very good extreme pressure lubricant)
Brian
Those are my thoughts exactly Brian. Over the years on many bikes I have seen come through a motorcycle shop, this has been the case with shim under bucket valves. The old screw adjuster type went out of spec more easily. If the valves are withing spec, most shops would leave them alone unless they are really close to being out of spec, especially on the tight side.
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We just bought a '13 Honda Accord Sport with an I4. I figured it had solid lifters and was curious about what the recommended valve inspection interval is. To paraphrase, "check the valves when they are noisy".
YMMV.
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Unfortunately this is another one of those hot topics with a lot of opinions and little to no <valid> data.
A lot of people have checked their valve lash and found it to be on the edge of spec's or out of spec at a given mileage and just assume that it moved steadily that way from the center of tolerance over the miles ridden. I do not believe that is the case and without having checked at regular intervals beforehand, there is just no way to know. Also, it seems that most people assume that Kawasaki set the lash to the center of the spec and that is just not the case; all manufacturers use the tolerance given and would happily accept a lash setting anywhere (even at the edge of the range) w/in tolerance.
I checked the lash on my C-14 for the first time at 25K miles and found them all w/in tolerance although some intake valves were close to or right on the lower limit; I did not pull the cams or change any shims. Checking again at 50K miles showed the same results except that none were closer than a half- thousandth of an inch (0.0005") to the lower limit. I skipped the 75K check and will not look again until 100K miles (bike currently is approaching 80K miles).
I think the greatest amount of lash change, say 90% of it, is in the first 500 or 1,000 miles due to parts moving against moving, mating parts ('breaking in' or 'bedding in'). So when the lash is found at an upper or lower limit, or even outside the limits at, say, 15,000 miles it had been there for the last 14,000 miles or more. Shim under bucket systems are really quite rugged and do not tend to change much over time unless really worked hard (high RPM, lots of combustion chamber heat, lots of throttle most of the time) and even then the majority of wear is the valve seat rather than the rest of the valve train parts. And modern valve faces and valve seats are really quite hard to cope with unleaded fuel so even that wear is much, much less than it was before leaded fuel was no longer available in the US. (lead is a very good extreme pressure lubricant)
Brian
I base my information on facts and my data. I never assumed that the first adjustment that Kawasaki set them dead center. But I do know that I did set them dead center and where they moved from thatI can easily measure.
Leaving your clearances .0005" from the end of spec, why? You are already in there, do the job completely or why bother doing it at all. Oh wait I see you did not bother to do it at 75,000 miles.
Going by your own statement, had you adjusted those that were close or at the limit the first time and set them to the middle, perhaps you would have reaped the benefits of them being set there and perhaps stayed there instead of having them consistently run .0005" from the limit or on it.
just a thought
I do agree that the majority of the movement comes early, I have measured that on countless bikes I have owned.
If you look at my post, you can see each time I adjusted them less needed adjusting and were not as far out either. But it doesn't mean I won't check, ever and continue to adjust them even if it is only 1 needing adjustment. This has been the case with every bike I have owned.
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They could all be in spec, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are in spec.
I'll clarify:
On my Suzuki ( and I bet the same applies to all engines) for the valve inspection procedure, it stresses to make sure that clearances for each each pair of valves is the same.
So, if you are looking at the intake valves of cylinder 1 and one is on the loose end of spec (but still in spec) and the other one is on the tighter end of spec (but still in spec), that is not acceptable, get them closer together in spec.
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Just finished checking the valve clearances. Did them at 13000 2 years ago and had to change 15 out of 16 shims. All were in the middle. At 25000 all the exhaust are at .008 and 3 of the intakes are at .005. The other 5 at .006. I would suggest that you check them. They do change.