Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: timsatx on December 02, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
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I have been trying for the last 2-3 hours to get the new PR2 inflated but no matter what I can't do it will not seal to the rim so I can inflate. I have even been using a 1,000 lb ratcheting strap but no go, Anybody have any ideas?
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Just a quick checklist to make sure you didn't forget anything:
1 - Valve stem removed
2 - Tire lube
3 - Sufficient quantity and pressure of air
I've occasionally had one that was difficult to seat. Sometimes popping all the bead back off the rim, re-lubing, and then putting air in again worked.
I use a spray bottle filled with Ru Glyde. Makes it easy to spray a little extra onto the bead if it doesn't want to seat.
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How do you inflate without the valve core? Every one I have seen requires the valve core.
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No valve core inflation - a hose end/connector like the tire shops use. It clamps on the valve stem.
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I haven't been to a shop to see the tools they use. I probably know what it looks like but can you provide a link? It is too late for me to finish right now as it is dark, but I can continue tomorrow.
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The valve core needs to be installed to make a normal tire inflation fitting work. But the valve core causes a lot of restriction in the valve stem, slowing the airflow into the tire. The air can't come in fast enough to overcome the amount of air leaking out past the unseated tire bead. The answer is: 1) Remove the valve core so air can flow into the tire unrestricted. 2) Use a free-flowing air nozzle that doesn't have the center pin like a tire inflator. Let the air rush in as fast as it will go. That should do the job. Once the tire bead is seated, let off the air nozzle, and install the valve core and inflate as normal. 3) Have a beer because you deserve it.
You may still have a problem if your compressor is very small and has a very low flow rate/small diameter hose. If that's the case try borrowing a unit with a higher flow rate/bigger hose.
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You may still have a problem if your compressor is very small and has a very low flow rate/small diameter hose. If that's the case try borrowing a unit with a higher flow rate/bigger hose.
I use a local convenience store's air hose. They have free (a rarity anymore) air available, and the hose is the type that you squeeze a handle to send air into the tire.
How do you inflate without the valve core? Every one I have seen requires the valve core.
The air will go in without the valve stem installed. It just comes out again when you remove the hose. Shoot the air in until the bead seats. You should get two good pops, one as each bead seats. Then take the hose off, and reinsert the valve stem. I just wait until the pressure in the tire is gone, screw the stem in, and then inflate the tire. Once the bead is seated, it will stay in place without any pressure in the tire.
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No valve core inflation - a hose end/connector like the tire shops use. It clamps on the valve stem.
I think this is what Summit670 is referring to: (Though you'll need some way to control the air supply)
(http://www.truevalue.com/assets/product_images/styles/large/108996.jpg)
The station near me uses these:
(http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00916388000-1)
The clamp-on style is easier for bead seating, as you don't have to hold it in place as you shoot the air in.
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I think this is what Summit670 is referring to: (Though you'll need some way to control the air supply)
(http://www.truevalue.com/assets/product_images/styles/large/108996.jpg)
Tire shops use these to inflate very large tires like tractors and combines as it could take 10 minutes to fill and ypou'd get a pretty sore hand holding a regular chuck for that long. They have about the same filling rate as the chucks without the holder.
I install quite a few of my own tires and I really know what you're going through.
Try laying the tire flat, or flat with small blocks under the tire to hold it up. Also try rolling it a bit while on edge. If one thing isn't working go directly to another,keep changing angles you are holding the rim etc.
As with other aspects of our lives lots of lubrication can lead to success. A squirt bottle with a pretty rich detergent water mix works well.
Removing the valve core is also a must when things don't go well...filling rate is much higher.
Tire shops also have a puffer they use to help expand the tire to grab the rim. It's just an old propane bottle with a quarter turn valve, large pipes and a nozzle that directs the air between the tire and rim. A quick turn of the wrist and with a blast of air the tire expands to contact the rim and the already running air chuck takes over.
We used to do this with explosive gasses. In the interest of safety I won't get into that.
Sometimes, with all your efforts, a tire won't seat. I begrudgingly take those to the tire shop and they usually do it for free just to prove who's the man.
Good luck
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My air compressor is plenty big enough. I just think the volume of air isn't enough, certainly with the valve core installed. I saw that first small one in the pic at O'Reilly's today. I can try that. So are y'all saying that it will still work without the valve core installed?
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So are y'all saying that it will still work without the valve core installed?
Some will, some won't :-\
I've mounted 'several' tires in recent eon's. The problem tires were the Pilot-GT's (stiff as a brick). The rest seat fairly well if I make sure the bead (and rim) is well lubed w/ Ru-glyde when I air the tire up. As in the Ru-glyde has not dried.
Some times I've had to gently bounce the tire/wheel on the ground, rotate, repeat; in order to get the beads 'centered' on the rim (axial and radial).
Rick
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Take it to your local tire shop; they will inflate it for you. The shop I use does it at no charge, and while you are at it, ask them for a bit of bead soap. Remember I am a lazy SOB.
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The ratcheting strap and lube always work for me. It helps if the tire is warmed up. Try bouncing the wheel in between attempts.
AND !!! don't laugh, Once my tire was to big for the rim., and a billion pounds of pressure wouldn't have inflated it.
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I haven't looked closely at one, but is it possible to take an old valve core and remove all the sealing components/spring to increase the flow?
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I leave the valve stem out to pop the bead on. You want maximum flow and the valve stem impedes air flow. +1 on the lube, without it you will have a very hard time getting the tire on the bead.
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You could always use some ether and a match ;D
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If using combustible gasses use a handheld propane torch to light it. Keeps your fingers from getting singed or caught in the bead.
Would also be a good idea to take it out of the shop...sometimes you get a pretty big fireball.
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You know, I tried the ether thing and damned if I still couldn't get. I tried everything. Since all the motorcycle shops are closed today I went to our local Cycle Gear shop. It took them about 20 minutes to get it mounted, and they didn't charge which was nice. Normally mounting is quick but it even took them time to get it done.
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d e a d
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To get air in quickly I often use an air gun nozzle with a bit of electrical tape wrapped around it to help it seal. You don't have to be able to put in enough air to make it seat, just enough to get it to seal. Then you can quickly swap tips to get it seated.
I have used the ether method before. Works pretty darned well on ATV tires.
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I think this is what Summit670 is referring to: (Though you'll need some way to control the air supply)
(http://www.truevalue.com/assets/product_images/styles/large/108996.jpg)
I'll be darned if a chuck looking exactly like that wasn't in the Harbor Freight ads today.
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Be careful. I finally found one at NAPA. Most of those are like your standard air chuck. They are what is called "normally closed". The one I found today is called "normally open". If you look at the inside of them you can definitely see the difference.
The NAPA part number is 90-526. Their website makes no mention of being normally open or closed.
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Another little piece that will work....if you bought one of those little air tool sets similar to what Walmart sells - it normally has a regular air chuck in it and a few various other pieces just for blowing off dust or whatever. One of the little pieces that comes in that set is a little black, rubber cone-shaped tip that screws into one of the little guns. That tip works pretty well for trying to seat a tire on your rim. You just remove the valve stem core and then you can hold the rubber tip against the end of the valve stem and let the air flow! It may not be the greatest but it works if you happen to have one laying around.
Marlan
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Take it from an OLD FART that has been there, this is a lot easier. http://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/tire-shop/all?evar1=goo (http://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/tire-shop/all?evar1=goo)|ts_-_general_-_for_sale_-_ps|store_phrase_-_ps|tire_stores|phrase
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Here is a pic of the chuck I was talking about.
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt18/timsatx/DSCN1603.jpg)
Another little piece that will work....if you bought one of those little air tool sets similar to what Walmart sells - it normally has a regular air chuck in it and a few various other pieces just for blowing off dust or whatever. One of the little pieces that comes in that set is a little black, rubber cone-shaped tip that screws into one of the little guns. That tip works pretty well for trying to seat a tire on your rim. You just remove the valve stem core and then you can hold the rubber tip against the end of the valve stem and let the air flow! It may not be the greatest but it works if you happen to have one laying around.
I don't know how you would effectively get that to the valve stem on the front tire with both of those discs in the way. It's tough enough with the angled chuck.
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I don't know how you would effectively get that to the valve stem on the front tire with both of those discs in the way. It's tough enough with the angled chuck.
Well, I always remove the discs so as not to damage them when installing a tire. Doesn't take much to accidentally bend one.
And I have angled valve stems, anyway.
(http://kurveygirl.com/shop/images/Enkei%20-%20Bent%20-%20Pair.jpg)
http://kurveygirl.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=72 (http://kurveygirl.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=72)
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I had a PR2 front in 110/80 - replacing the 110/80 Michelin Mac 50 that was running on my '99. It *would not* seat no matter what I did. Tried all the tricks.
Took it to 2 shops, and they couldn't get it to seat either.
Sent it back (never did get my refund >:( ) and got the 120/70 instead. The wife took it to get it mounted... so I never got a chance to try again.
Since then... just put on some Avon Road Riders this year - 110 front... went on without complaint. No ratchet-straps needed, and my 3gal compressor (with the above-mentioned chuck) handled the job. 8)
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I use a chuck similar in appearance to the 90-526 with a quick release. I removed the center pin that pushes on the Schrader valve. I also remove the Schrader valve from the rim. With the compressor fully charged I connect the chuck and quickly hold it onto the rim stem. The only time I've had trouble is when the tire was not properly lubed.
I use the No-Mar tire bar and lube with a harbor Freight tire changer. They work great together and changes are very easy. The No-Mar lube works better than the car tire lube I was using.