Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: thundermax on November 19, 2012, 10:39:53 AM
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Anyone use a HiFlo filter, HFA2916? Look to be $26 + s&h.
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Haven't tried it.
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I like the OEM personally.
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I didn't want to start a new topic because a search for 'Hiflo' produced this good starter thread for the air filter review I'm posting.
So yes, the HFA2916 can be had on amazon for $26. The frame, foam edge, and paper media appears to be identical to the OE filter in every way, right down to the number of pleats. For reference, the shown OE filter on the right has 5000 miles on it. The Hiflo slid into place just like the OE filter. Looking rosy so far.
(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=766)
The flip side is positively thorny, however.
(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=767)
The backing screen on the OE filter has 10 holes per linear inch or 100 per square inch and they are twice as large as the holes in the backing screen of the Hiflo filter, which has 12 holes per linear inch or 144 per square inch (click on the pictures for a closeup). I could have measured and calculated open area, but a picture speaks a thousand words. Why Hiflo chose to put such a dense metal backing screen on their filter is beyond me. All that's needed is support to keep the pleated filter media from being sucked into the intake. Relative to the OE filter, there will be a severe penalty in air flow with the Hiflo filter.
NOT RECOMMENDED. Stick with OE.
I'm withdrawing my negative opinion because I don't have data/facts to support the statement I made. I'm currently running the filter without observable side effects. As always, YMMV and use non-OE at your own risk.
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[...]The flip side is positively thorny, however.[...]NOT RECOMMENDED. Stick with OE.
I have to agree. It looks like all that unnecessary metal on the back would greatly restrict airflow. Thanks for the info.
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+1
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As an engineer that did a bazillion calcs on pressure drop across filter media, based on fan forced air cooling of large electrical control cabinets, I'll pipe up and explain that even tho it appears restrictive, in reality the filter media itself is 20 times more restrictive than the perf plate...
I didn't believe this myself untill I tested numerous patterns of perforations, and screens in the products I was designing, The filters we used were varied, and depended on fan size, ducting, and environment, and varied from pleated HEPA type celulose paper pleated, glass floss, fiberglass matt, and coarse washable fiber stock... with exception of the last material, the screening mad very little difference..
And keep in mind the perf plate is on the downstream side of the flow path...so it essentially stays clean, and doesn't collect big goobers..
Id really like to see some figures done on it realistically by SISF, on the dyno, with a/f ratios, combined with his data points of the flash...
I think you would be surprised by the outcome.
I'll try one of those on my next filter change for sure.... I ain't skeered
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I can believe what you are saying. I'm running the evil Hiflo filter now against my own recommendation just because it's new and I paid for it. Without data, all we have is the eye test and it doesn't pass the eye test.
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I'm on my second hi-flo.
See no problems so far... especially when saving as much as $100 on 2 filters! :o
Some of those prices are rediculous.
$75 for an air filter?? Wow...
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Calculate the open area of all the holes in the HiFlo, then compare it to the area of the duct leading from the air filter box to the engine. That would be interesting.
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Same Hi flo filter is recommended for a ZX14,which has a higher CFM rating than a C14/GTR1400.I have fitted one to the GTR1400 covered a few miles no different than the OEM filter in terms of performance. Don't think the smaller holes in the metal panel makes any difference in performance.
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My bike came with a Hi-Flo..I haven't had any issues. I cleaned it with simple green and a soft tooth brush then rinsed it and let it dry out. its working fine. My mileage went up because it was sooo nasty and clogged. Now that I know it only takes 20min to change it. I will be buying a K&N and clean it at every oil change.
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Can anyone tell me if the computer will compensate for added airflow by adding additional fuel to the mix? For example, the ECU on Harley's will take a 30 minute snap shot of air/fuel mixture and what the sensors are sending to the computer and adjust the mixture to a point as needed for how the bike is being ridden or various elevation changes etc. Does the Connie system do the same thing? If not, I would think the bike would run a bit on the lean side with all the additional air flow. Thanks.
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Can anyone tell me if the computer will compensate for added airflow by adding additional fuel to the mix? For example, the ECU on Harley's will take a 30 minute snap shot of air/fuel mixture and what the sensors are sending to the computer and adjust the mixture to a point as needed for how the bike is being ridden or various elevation changes etc. Does the Connie system do the same thing? If not, I would think the bike would run a bit on the lean side with all the additional air flow. Thanks.
I think you may be confused as to lean/rich...
The people commenting on the "restriction" of airflow here may have a point, but as it has not been run on an a/f sensor for exhaust analysis, we don't know...
If you restrict, air, and inject fuel, it runs rich, not lean.
Now, your bike being a 2015, and having O2 sensors in the pre cat area, may give direct feedback to the fueling ecu, and make adjustments based on that, but I can't say for certain it takes place. None of the years has an airflow sensor between the filter, and the intake valves... so that's data that does not have corroboration or can change fuel setting from ECU.
I still say we need examination, prolly from SISF, as he has the setup, and access to the equipment, to asses the effect and differences if any, that this filter may or may not have... and CAN it be tuned to in a flash, to work as a benefit?
Iirc, when he bgan all this, he found that this bike DID in fact run rich at points in the usable rpm range, and O2 readings were somewhat outlined to show this..
Remember, before the flash, came the 2 minute mod..... which cut the airflow on the C10 drastcally, and also allowed much less fuel by jetting to match, without loosing hp, and even increasing usable torque on the old bike.... some times velocity and more fuel, is in effect wasted if the engine can't burn it all...
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Thank you for the correction.
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I didn't want to start a new topic because a search for 'Hiflo' produced this good starter thread for the air filter review I'm posting.
(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=767)
The backing screen on the OE filter has 10 holes per linear inch or 100 per square inch and they are twice as large as the holes in the backing screen of the Hiflo filter, which has 12 holes per linear inch or 144 per square inch (click on the pictures for a closeup). I could have measured and calculated open area, but a picture speaks a thousand words. Why Hiflo chose to put such a dense metal backing screen on their filter is beyond me. All that's needed is support to keep the pleated filter media from being sucked into the intake. Relative to the OE filter, there will be a severe penalty in air flow with the Hiflo filter.
NOT RECOMMENDED. Stick with OE.
Now, as the hi flo has holes.in the plates, and the pleats in the fiter medai itself behind it, are not restricted and un covered, did you think about all the actaul restriction that is occuring in the crests and valleys of the OEM filter, that was sandwiched and pleated, like it was clad in this screening ...as in the complete surface area of every pleate has restriction also...
Just tossing that out for thoughts... to really calculate total restriction on the oem, it would have to be unpleated, and total surface area of the screen and media calculated,
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I have a K&N so my days of buying filters are over. And back when I bought it, it was about the same price as OEM from my dealer.
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Now, as the hi flo has holes.in the plates, and the pleats in the fiter medai itself behind it, are not restricted and un covered, did you think about all the actaul restriction that is occuring in the crests and valleys of the OEM filter, that was sandwiched and pleated, like it was clad in this screening ...as in the complete surface area of every pleate has restriction also...
Just tossing that out for thoughts... to really calculate total restriction on the oem, it would have to be unpleated, and total surface area of the screen and media calculated,
No sir; I did not concern myself with the pleats on the OE filter because this part was identical to the HiFlo filter. So, using the OE filter as the baseline, my question was- would the more dense metal screen of the HiFlo filter reduce air flow to the engine relative to the OE filter, which has a more open metal screen.
What probably happens is the filter media is more restrictive than the metal plate, so there is probably no difference, which was your earlier observation.
I'm running the filter now, so I change my review conclusion from "not recommended" to "it probably doesn't matter and for half the price, use at your own risk." The construction quality is just as good as OE, the fit is just as good, and the filter media is identical.
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My bike is due for a filter sometime later this year, so I will try the low priced one for certain, and see if I can detect a reduction in power... but as I noted, id like to see SISF's data chart study using it in place of the oem one.. mayb I can convince him to test one...
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I just installed this filter and I'm very happy. Those pictures don't do it justice....they look quite restrictive and it's not.
My bike is running perfectly.
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I just installed this filter and I'm very happy. Those pictures don't do it justice....they look quite restrictive and it's not.
My bike is running perfectly.
+1
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+2, and as I said before "Same Hi flo filter is recommended for a ZX14,which has a higher CFM rating than a C14/GTR1400.I have fitted one to the GTR1400 covered a few miles no different than the OEM filter in terms of performance. Don't think the smaller holes in the metal panel makes any difference in performance".
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Interesting air filter general comparison is terms of the amount of dirt some filters allow to go into the engine.: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)
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Interesting air filter general comparison is terms of the amount of dirt some filters allow to go into the engine.
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)
Linky no worky.... it hink the extra colon punctuation threw it wonky..
Try again?
Click the modifed link I have above, after making it correct...
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I stopped using K&N and Amsoil oiled filters after I started using more oil in my vehicles over time.....more than what I was used to in owning Toyota vehicles. I now use paper disposable filters. As far as the bike goes, I didn't see any oil consumption issues on either the C10 or the C14 when using K&N (I think I used it on the C10...memory is lacking). However, once I made the choice to stop using oiled filters, I stopped it on all my vehicles. This was my personal choice based on anecdotal non-scientific evidence. I don't regret making the switch back to paper. I did not perceive nor notice any power or mileage per gallon increases using oiled filters. YMMV
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I had a K&N on my last bike, installed by the previous owner. I never totally trusted them but didn't have any evidence for or against. I know I didn't like the cleaning and re-oiling procedure. Just more dirty work to do when servicing the bike vs. just throwing out the old and installing the new. Also, knowing how much oil was enough vs. too much or too little was a guesstimate.
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I look at it like this: to the best of my knowledge, there are exactly five air filters available for the C14... OE, Hiflo, Bikemaster, BMC, K&N. The first two are disposable paper; the last three are washable/oilable. The last three all say they flow more air AND trap more dirt. IMO, that's not possible. I will stay with the first two.
OTOH there are about 100 oil filters that fit, so if I want to get creative, I can (and have) play with these.
I had another thought. The washable filters are marketed as "race" filters. If you are actually racing and tearing down an engine every race, and have a setup that can benefit from big air, then one of these washable, oiled, hi flow filters might make sense. The more open area and oil should flow and trap more. But it won't last a typical daily rider / commuter maintenance cycle.
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Wise words ^
I checked over a friend's bike while doing a valve adjust at 200,000km. Inside of airbox that had a K&N almost from near new, which was serviced as per manufacturer specs (K&N).
(https://i.imgur.com/cgfkThi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vT7HTot.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pk1STsK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LuTCIfq.jpg)
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Wise words ^
I checked over a friend's bike while doing a valve adjust at 200,000km. Inside of airbox that had a K&N almost from near new, which was serviced as per manufacturer specs (K&N). [pics of lots of contamination]
Wow. I wonder if that mess is FROM the filter, or stuff that got through it?
I replaced my stock filter at 43,500 miles with a Hiflofiltro HFA2916. The air box was very clean.
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It's what went thru - look at the crud in the 1st pic. Here's a pic of the left side of the airbox. Note the accumulation of crud in the crease, where it collects when on the side stand before dripping into the catch-can along with a bit of oil blown up there from the c/case breather tube. The c/case breather tube and catch-can tube are located immediately below that small rectangular piece at the bottom of the pic.
(https://i.imgur.com/cYTW8NT.jpg)
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Freddy - It might be my monitor, but it looks like the dirty rag and the liquid in the catch can are both very red, which is the color of the K&N filter oil that you spray on the filter after cleaning. I think that's what drove Maxtog to ask, " I wonder if that mess is FROM the filter(?)" (Maxtog, please correct me if I'm wrong).
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Freddy - It might be my monitor, but it looks like the dirty rag and the liquid in the catch can are both very red, which is the color of the K&N filter oil that you spray on the filter after cleaning. I think that's what drove Maxtog to ask, " I wonder if that mess is FROM the filter(?)" (Maxtog, please correct me if I'm wrong).
That is, indeed, what I was thinking. Of course, the amount of liquid captured is pretty gross, too.
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Yes, probly over oiled which helped to 'wash' some crud out.
Here's a pic of my bike's airbox at 110,000km, having used only stock or HiFlo filters. Clean as a whistle. :chugbeer:
(https://i.imgur.com/AakBwBr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p4hOZSe.jpg)