Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: CREICH on November 17, 2012, 08:48:03 AM
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Hello friends! I'm very embarassed. After 3 month riding this marcellous GTR , my transponder disappeared .. (lost or probably stolen! there are 2 transponders on my 2008 model, but the first owner crashed one and so I have no second transponder to help me!!! )
the whole system costs about 1600 fr. swiss francs!! I cant afford it
I've benn hoping it would come forward, but nothing after 3 weeks... Could one of you help me ?
MGvalerio left a polemical message on 2012 february 17th saying
"without the transponder can be set in motion by me" !
that would be great .. in secret anyway!
best regards , hopefully , Christian / Ne - Switzerland
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Welcome, CREICH! Lost you mean... that it felt down while driving?
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If both FOBs have been lost, I'm pretty sure that you have to replace the ECU. There is no way to recover, unfortunately. Possibly a used one might work, assuming that unit has at least one FOB still with it.
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If both FOBs have been lost, I'm pretty sure that you have to replace the ECU. There is no way to recover, unfortunately. Possibly a used one might work, assuming that unit has at least one FOB still with it.
yes , both fobs are lost..
have you ever heard of Motomatrix (UK)?
You send them the ECU
and you get à brand new Code-key + a regular key for 220£ ..
I just found it out through eBay... I'll probably try so and give
the good news to you all, if I come through this way!
I first have to order a new regular key (I found the keynumber in the booklet)
to reach the ECU! is that right?
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this forum is great :o !
It's so amazing to get answers in half an hour from anywhere in this world..!
Thanks to be here! ;)
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Thank you for being here. Tell all your friends and neighbors...
Thanks for the tip on the ECU. :thumbs:
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There really isn't any way around a significant cost if you lose all the fobs that function with a C-14. At that point you will need a new KiPass ECU and at least one fob that functions with that new KiPass ECU to get the bike running. You will also need to have the new KiPass ECU programmed to work with the main ECU by a dealer.
As Jim mentioned, you can probably get a used KiPass ECU for a C-14 now but you will have to be careful: I know our (US) main ECU's are different from the ones you have in Europe, and I believe the KiPass ECU's are different as well. That would mean you cannot use a KiPass ECU from a salvage bike in a European bike.
Also note that there are TWO ECU's in a C-14 (or GTR 1400), one is the 'main' ECU that runs the engine and the other one is the KiPass ECU that is used to authenticate fobs and well as work with the tire pressure sensors. Whatever you do, do NOT buy a used 'main' ECU as that will not do anything for you. Also if you do buy a used KiPass ECU, make absolutely sure it comes with at least one functioning fob or it will again be useless to you. I do not know of any to make sure what you buy is a good, working set other than to go by the seller's feedback rating and perhaps do a little research into the seller before buying the ECU (is it a company with some history? Will they take back something if it does not work for you, etc?).
Best of luck getting the bike running again.
Brian
Hello friends! I'm very embarassed. After 3 month riding this marcellous GTR , my transponder disappeared .. (lost or probably stolen! there are 2 transponders on my 2008 model, but the first owner crashed one and so I have no second transponder to help me!!! )
the whole system costs about 1600 fr. swiss francs!! I cant afford it
I've benn hoping it would come forward, but nothing after 3 weeks... Could one of you help me ?
MGvalerio left a polemical message on 2012 february 17th saying
"without the transponder can be set in motion by me" !
that would be great .. in secret anyway!
best regards , hopefully , Christian / Ne - Switzerland
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Thanks, Brian.
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Ok ! I won't search for any used ECU / Motomatrix in UK just need my ECU so that they can make you new keys , one wich will be programmed with the original ECU part and anotherone without code..
That's what I read, inclusive positiv customers appreciations .. :grouphug: :
I'll let you know, (it might be interesting for local dealers... )
Let's see ::). !
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Both FOBs must be programmed if they are the large FOBs.
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For those who are curious (like I was), here is their web site : http://www.motomatrix.co.uk/ (http://www.motomatrix.co.uk/)
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Seems like the OP might have the wrong idea about the kipass system. The web site sounds like chip embedded keys not FOBs.
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Seems like the OP might have the wrong idea about the kipass system. The web site sounds like chip embedded keys not FOBs.
Don't think so. If you look at Kawasaki on their "What to send us" page (http://www.motomatrix.co.uk/what.htm#KAWASAKI (http://www.motomatrix.co.uk/what.htm#KAWASAKI)), they seem to know what they're talking about.
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They talk about the KISS immobilizer. Not the same as Kipass if my understanding is correct.
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I've sent a note to them specifically asking if they can work with KIPASS or not.
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Be interesting to see if they have new fobs to go with the reprog. Look's like they're selling Red and Black key blanks. That system is used on the zx and other lesser models.
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Be interesting to see if they have new fobs to go with the reprog. Look's like they're selling Red and Black key blanks. That system is used on the zx and other lesser models.
Lesser, I like that... :thumbs:
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It is actually the KiPass ECU, the part on the bike, that is programmed, not the fobs or tire pressure sensors. And the KiPass ECU has to be programmed to recognize any fob, large or small (remote or RFID..... fobs containing a battery and those not containing a battery).
Brian
Both FOBs must be programmed if they are the large FOBs.
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Agreed- those are systems used on European bikes. Yamaha FJR's have immobilizers in them when they are sold in Europe but not the US. That particular site also references 'red' keys and 'black' keys which sounds like the system Ducati uses and is not similar to KiPass.
KiPass is based on permanently encoded fobs and the bike is programmed to recognize the correct one(s). It is a fundamentally different system that what is commonly used on cars where the key has an chip inside it; those systems have the keys encoded to work with the vehicle unlike KiPass which has a code embedded (called 'hard coded') in each fob when the wafers are cut (the same way each Intel processor has a unique code hard coded into it when the silicon wafer is manufactured).
I won't say something stupid like 'it can't be done' but I doubt that anyone can manufacture / code a remote fob for KiPass without already having a valid for code; in other words, without having a valid fob available. I believe the original idea that goes with KiPass remains- lose the last valid fob and you are off to get a new KiPass ECU and at least one valid fob that goes with that ECU. New KiPass ECU's from Kawasaki come with two fobs because a new ECU without any fobs won't do anyone any good and cannot be used. For anyone interested, there is an abundance of information available about how encryption works generally; KiPass uses Mitsubishi’s MISTY system specifically and there is a fair amount of information about that system available too.
One final, hopefully logical, thought: Is it really likely that some individual hacker, no matter how naturally talented or intelligent, is likely to outwit a system designed by professional cryptographers, likely at least as intelligent and very well schooled on the ways and means of encryption? There are an infinite number of codes that are wrong but only one that is correct and figuring out that one code is not easy nor is there a straightforward method of determining that code as it is truly random.
Brian
Seems like the OP might have the wrong idea about the kipass system. The web site sounds like chip embedded keys not FOBs.
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dear friends, here the answer of Ian ( Motomatrix) ...
"hello Christian
At the moment we do not cover the kawasaki GTR1400 as this uses a key fob system ... We hope to have this model covered in 2 months time. Regards ian"
I guess it's quite à serious adress... and
We all need patience don't we?
take it easy!
Christian
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That tears that then.... Too bad. Other than buying a new KIPASS ECU with fobs, your only choice is to find the once you lost (hopefully in your home or those pants you haven't worn for ages) or try to find a used one with the registered fobs. Good luck.
Just got a reply back on my note. According to them, they are working on the capability to work with our KIPASS ECU. Hoping to have that soon, within a couple of months. I've asked them to email me when they do have it.
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Good. Even with shipping from the UK it may be less expensive than OEM. Maybe someone like Murph can be the US agent for these folks.
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In case anyone goes searching eBay, this one listed for $50 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/320663631705?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/320663631705?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)) DOES NOT have the FOBs. I just emailed them and asked. :)
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thanks for your eBay research! How come they don't have NO FOBS!!! :hitfan: ??
Thanks Brian for your attentiv explanations.. I don't have any idea how thinkful the deal is..
Two month .. Let's hope my fob comes out ... :hail: anyway!
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thanks for your eBay research! How come they don't have NO FOBS!!! :hitfan: ??
Thanks Brian for your attentiv explanations.. I don't have any idea how thinkful the deal is..
Two month .. Let's hope my fob comes out ... :hail: anyway!
Hopefully not in public.
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How can someone lose a fob and then not replace it?
Do you only have one key for your house?
Sure, it's easy enough to lose a key/fob but ya need to replace it ASAFP!!
Otherwise like poor Creich you end up screwed.
Hopefully Motomatrix can do something in the new year but I'll be surprised if they can.
Do the Kawi dealers need an existing fob to be able to program a new one?
I know there is a maximum of 6 fobs per KiPass module over it's lifetime.
My understanding was that so long as you can PROVE that the bike is legitimately yours (get it registered with kawasaki) then you should be able to get a new fob.
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How can someone lose a fob and then not replace it?
Do you only have one key for your house?
Sure, it's easy enough to lose a key/fob but ya need to replace it ASAFP!!
Otherwise like poor Creich you end up screwed.
Hopefully Motomatrix can do something in the new year but I'll be surprised if they can.
Do the Kawi dealers need an existing fob to be able to program a new one?
I know there is a maximum of 6 fobs per KiPass module over it's lifetime.
My understanding was that so long as you can PROVE that the bike is legitimately yours (get it registered with kawasaki) then you should be able to get a new fob.
The bike has to be turned on in order to program the ECU to recognize a fob. There's only one way to turn the bike on and that's with a fob that is recognized by the bike's UCU. To summarize, the bike can NOT be turned on, or programed, without a fob.
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Maybe, maybe not. Nothing is for sure in this life... Unless you have money, guns, and lawyers and even then it can be dicey.
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Maybe, maybe not. Nothing is for sure in this life... Unless you have money, guns, and lawyers and even then it can be dicey.
You have the order a bit off Jim.
"Lawyers, Guns and Money" by Warren Zevon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPlMmwOq7U8#)
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No, Warren did. You need money to pay for guns and lawyers to get you out of jail. Money comes first. No money, no guns, no lawyers. ;) I do like the song though, thanks. That reminds me...remember when Roland was here?
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Wait, I thought that the guns were used on the lawyers? ;)
Yeah, I remember Roland. I always liked that dude. How did that song remind you of him?
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guns first
http://youtu.be/WhRRWwH3Fro (http://youtu.be/WhRRWwH3Fro)