Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: lather on November 17, 2012, 07:56:11 AM
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Yesterday a riding buddy mentioned that my Concours emits a puff of white smoke when I make a hard upshift. I have been on this forum since mid 2007 and at some point early on I posted that my bike was suing oil between changes (6000 miles with Rotella Synth 5w40) I have tried both Motul full esther synthetic Motorcycle oil both in 10W40 and 15W50 with no noticeable change in oil consumption.
When I got home yesterday I checked the oil level. I am overdue for a change at 6200 miles. The level, as expected was below the bottom of the window. I measured the amount required to bring it to the bottom line, 24 ounces. I have never actually measured it before but I estimate that this is about the same as from day 1, maybe a few ounces more. Mileage is at 91,000.
This amount of consumption is apparently not unusual from what I have read. However my 99 VFR with 130,000 miles still uses no measureable oil between changes.
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2009 Concours with 11,096 miles. I use Mobil 1 Racing 4T Syn 10W-40. Change oil at about every 2500-3000 miles. Oil level through the oil sight window remains pretty constant between oil changes.
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A small amount of oil consumption is not only normal, it is necessary. The only way to lubricate the rings is to leave a small film of oil behind as the piston moves downward, and at least some of that film will be lost to combustion and some goes out the exhaust.
Funny thing here is that some contamination of the oil from combustion products, and combustion by products, is perfectly normal too. Obviously raw gasoline being driven past the rings and into the crankcase is a primary contaminator but there are also the by products of combustion such as carbon; this is why oil turns dark as it accumulates miles. So while all engines consume oil, some take on enough foreign materials in the crankcase that it <appears> that the engine is not using any oil. There is even the occasional engine that <appears> to 'make' oil and the crankcase oil level actually rises as the miles add up.
Your consumption sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I believe that 'heavy' oil consumption is considered anything more than one quart in 1,000 miles; such a vehicle will leave blue smoke behind it wherever it goes. Just my opinion but if a vehicle does not require adding oil between oil changes then all is well; 24 ounces of oil is well under a quart which is probably the minimum amount of oil I would bother to add to a vehicle with a 5 quart capacity. Contrary to popular belief, the oil level in a crankcase is not critical as it is merely a reservoir and as long as the oil submerges the oil pump and the oil on board does not overheat, all is well. Besides all that, 24 ounces is right around 1 and 3/4 'glugs' which is hard to measure and would likely result in a slight overfill.
Brian
Yesterday a riding buddy mentioned that my Concours emits a puff of white smoke when I make a hard upshift. I have been on this forum since mid 2007 and at some point early on I posted that my bike was suing oil between changes (6000 miles with Rotella Synth 5w40) I have tried both Motul full esther synthetic Motorcycle oil both in 10W40 and 15W50 with no noticeable change in oil consumption.
When I got home yesterday I checked the oil level. I am overdue for a change at 6200 miles. The level, as expected was below the bottom of the window. I measured the amount required to bring it to the bottom line, 24 ounces. I have never actually measured it before but I estimate that this is about the same as from day 1, maybe a few ounces more. Mileage is at 91,000.
This amount of consumption is apparently not unusual from what I have read. However my 99 VFR with 130,000 miles still uses no measureable oil between changes.
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You don't regularly check the oil level in the window? :o 6200 miles on moto oil is pushing it "IMHO" I am more of a 4k/5k guy at the most.
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Not sure who you are talking to here but I ..... occasionally check my oil..... kinda'. I take a look in the sight glass when I think of it and if there is an oil line anywhere in that window I call it good. Well, I call it GREAT! :-)
Brian
You don't regularly check the oil level in the window? :o 6200 miles on moto oil is pushing it "IMHO" I am more of a 4k/5k guy at the most.
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Not sure who you are talking to here but I ..... occasionally check my oil..... kinda'. I take a look in the sight glass when I think of it and if there is an oil line anywhere in that window I call it good. Well, I call it GREAT! :-)
Brian
Should have quoted I reckon, was referring to Mr. Lather.
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Not sure who you are talking to here but I ..... occasionally check my oil..... kinda'. I take a look in the sight glass when I think of it and if there is an oil line anywhere in that window I call it good. Well, I call it GREAT! :-)
Brian
+1
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Should have quoted I reckon, was referring to Mr. Lather.
that's lather to you bud...
6000 is my interval with Rotella T, approved by Blackstone Labs. I do look at my glass now and then just like Mr. BDF but lately I have become a slacker.
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Change mine every 8k km which is almost 5k miles with no noticeable drop in window.
Using all Amsoil products. :stirpot: :grouphug:
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that's lather to you bud...
6000 is my interval with Rotella T, approved by Blackstone Labs. I do look at my glass now and then just like Mr. BDF but lately I have become a slacker.
I look at my glass every night and sometimes more than once depending on the situation.
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I look at my glass every night and sometimes more than once depending on the situation.
Beware Jim. If you stare into the glass too long sometimes the glass stares back back at you.
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It's only bad if it talks to you.
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Only after about three or four...
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I look at my glass every night and sometimes more than once depending on the situation.
That could cause you to pee the bed.
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Change mine every 8k km which is almost 5k miles with no noticeable drop in window.
Using all Amsoil products. :stirpot: :grouphug:
Scamsoil loves ya for it too. ;)
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Change mine every 8k km which is almost 5k miles with no noticeable drop in window.
Using all Amsoil products. :stirpot: :grouphug:
I change mine when I can, shooting for 5,000 miles, but have gone over 6,000 miles on one occasion with no noticeable change in oil level, using any oil I can fine, usually Kawasaki, or Honda oil, once Suzuki, all dino based. :stirpot: :deadhorse: :popcorn:
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I change mine when I can, shooting for 5,000 miles, but have gone over 6,000 miles on one occasion with no noticeable change in oil level, using any oil I can fine, usually Kawasaki, or Honda oil, once Suzuki, all dino based. :stirpot: :deadhorse: :popcorn:
That kind of mileage on an engine that revs like a mc engine does and does double duty lubricating the clutch with dino juice is asking for trouble. The shear strength of conventional oil past about 3k mikes sucks. I have smoked two engines using this philosophy (main bearing failure).
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I loose about 1/4" in the sight glass between 5,000-7,000 mile changes. I always use synthetic.
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That kind of mileage on an engine that revs like a mc engine does and does double duty lubricating the clutch with dino juice is asking for trouble. The shear strength of conventional oil past about 3k mikes sucks. I have smoked two engines using this philosophy (main bearing failure).
No offense, but it isn't "regular dino oil," it is motorcycle specific oil, formulated to be used in engines that share lubrication with the transmission. 3,000 miles is a holdover from the old days. Modern engines don't leak as much fuel and other impurities into the oils as in years gone by. The modern oils, even dino based oils are also improved. I have never burned up an engine following the maintenance schedule prescribed by a manufacturer.
In this case, Kawasaki actually specifies the first change at 600 miles, then 7,500 miles, then 15,000 miles. That is 7,500 miles between oil changes, as specified by the manufacturer of this particular motorcycle, who I am sure probably understands the needs of the engine, and the oil it needs better than you. It doesn't specify synthetic oil for this bike, some manufacturers do, not for this though.
If I am traveling, and it will be 6,000 miles before I get home, I am not too concerned. I will wait until I get home to change the oil. A long trip isn't that hard on an oil, like perhaps 7,500 miles of stop and go riding. I plan for 5,000 miles between oil changes. This is what I have done on all my vehicles, and what we did with a fleet of vans we had back in the 80s. Those went well over 200,000 miles without a "smoked engine." My last Jetta had 189,000 miles and still had good compression, within specs, and almost as good as new when I got rid of it. It ran perfectly, and used no oil. I didn't even go that crazy with my last drag race bike, and it didn't burn up either. If you had a main bearing failure, I will venture to guess something else was wrong. It wasn't the oil.
If I changed the oil on a bike every 3,000 miles, I would sometimes be changing the oil every week. Sorry, I'll pass.
Changing the oil at 3,000 miles just isn't necessary except under the most extreme conditions, or if the bike is only ridden 3,000 mile in a year. To change more often is a waste, and many will say, bad for the environment.
If a manufacturer says an engine can go 7,500 miles between oil changes, using conventional oil, 5,000 mile won't be an issue. Neither will 6,000 on occasion.
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I had about 2000 miles on the oil in my bike before I took it on a 4000 mile trip. The oil level is still about where it was when I did the change- about at the top line. I use Redline 5-40 bike oil. I am really impressed with the motor on this bike.
There are different things that can make a bike smoke. If I were to look at a used car or bike for sale, I'd go early morning, the vehicle would have to be cold. If there is ring wear or worn valve guides, you'll see it then. I also check the dipstick to see if the oil has a super high viscosity ("motor honey") to limit blue smoke production.
Long trips easier on a bike? Sounds plausible, but my Katana 1100 rarely needs a top off but on long trips, seems to gulp about a half quart for 2000 miles- go figure.
It is also possible for your oil level to go up. No, it is not from oil angels that come in the middle of night, it would be from fuel that is not burned and it dilutes the oil. I had this happen once on a suzuki with a bad fuel petcock- the oil was a bit above the fill line and smelled like gas. If this were to happen on a C14, there is something wrong with the bike.
A problem with the new mazda CX5 diesel is oil levels that go up to dangerous levels, from fuel dilution. A lot of people are pissed about having to do weekly oil level checks.
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No offense, but it isn't "regular dino oil," it is motorcycle specific oil, formulated to be used in engines that share lubrication with the transmission.
As far as I know, the only real difference between "motorcycle"-spec oil and not, is that motorcycle-spec oil is guaranteed not to have extra lubricants that can cause the clutch to slip. Otherwise the research I've seen shows them to be exactly the same.
If a manufacturer says an engine can go 7,500 miles between oil changes, using conventional oil, 5,000 mile won't be an issue. Neither will 6,000 on occasion.
If that's what it says, then that's what it says. Notice that the warranty isn't exactly a hundred thousand miles, though. Every report of conventional oil I've ever read shows the shear strength falling off precipitously after approximately 3k miles, less if the cold weight and operating temperature weight delta is greater than 20 (e.g. 10w40).
By all means change your bike's oil at whatever interval you feel appropriate. However, the objective data doesn't support your numbers, from what I've read. Oil change intervals prescribed in owner's manuals are driven by marketing departments just as much as by engineers; if you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself, IMO.
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Notice that the warranty isn't exactly a hundred thousand miles, though.
Isn't the warranty unlimited miles?
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Oh, snap! :o ;D
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that's lather to you bud...
6000 is my interval with Rotella T, approved by Blackstone Labs. I do look at my glass now and then just like Mr. BDF but lately I have become a slacker.
^^^that oil, combined with KiPass, is the reason I suspect my bike will exceed 200K miles
I love oil threads :D
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Isn't the warranty unlimited miles?
Multiply the years by the average motorcycle miles ridden per year, and you'll soon see that the warranty isn't high, by any means. Many automobile powertrain warranties are higher by an order of magnitude.
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Multiply the years by the average motorcycle miles ridden per year, and you'll soon see that the warranty isn't high, by any means. Many automobile powertrain warranties are higher by an order of magnitude.
I have 6 years unlimited mileage on my touring bikes.
I have 35,000 miles in two years on the Voyager, 16,500 miles in one year on the Versys, and 7,500 miles on the concours in 6 months. There are many guys here who have all those miles added up put on just their Concours.
All automobile warrantees have a mileage limit. All my motorcycle warrantees do not. No more to say.