Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: lather on November 16, 2012, 07:17:14 AM
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Yesterday when I first started my 08 I got the IMMOBILIZER ERROR message on the display. I turned the engine off to see if it would go away when I restarted but now the knob acted like there was no FOB. I switched to the other FOB and it started up with no problem. Stopped and restarted 6 or 7 times over the course of the day's 60 mile ride with no problems.
When I got home I pulled the battery and check connections, everything clean and apparently tight. I checked the suspect FOB battery with my multi-meter and the result was 2.7 volts. I would think this battery should still work at 2.7 but am I wrong?
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What's voltage of a new one? Did you check the battery of the working fob?
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These batteries should be 3 volts. You measured 2.7 with no load on the battery, it's dead as far as the fob is concerned.
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These batteries should be 3 volts. You measured 2.7 with no load on the battery, it's dead as far as the fob is concerned.
If 2.7 is too low it should have given the LOW BATT message, no?
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If 2.7 is too low it should have given the LOW BATT message, no?
Yep, it should have.
I have some of these batteries right here on my desk and I just measured em. 3.12v
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Yep, it should have.
I have some of these batteries right here on my desk and I just measured em. 3.12v
Thanks, I'm heading out to buy some fresh ones.
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Sometimes. Maybe.
The problem with that warning is that it depends on the transponder (the fob) detecting and transmitting a 'low battery voltage' condition to the main ECU where it would be displayed to you. The device is coded to respond to a certain voltage drop over a certain number of cycles to determine when the battery is out of acceptable range but like most simple or too simple tests, it really isn't very accurate. So you may get a low fob battery warning before the fob battery voltage is so low that the fob actually fails to transmit.... or not. In my opinion, it is a lousy test followed by an unreasonable 'feature' (the displayed low battery warning) that fools a lot of people into thinking something is wrong when really it is the test itself that is flawed.
Your fob battery voltage is too low by actual measurement and the fob has failed to transmit; normally you would just replace the battery and think nothing of it but because you were expecting that warning it fools you into looking for some problem when there really is not a problem. Not blaming you here Bob, I think it is just that the mfg. tries to give us additional and sometimes sophisticated functions that don't really work out. Look at the number of 'low battery' problems that C-14's have had on the tire pressure sensors- it would seem that we would be better off if that function just was not included on the vehicle and when the battery(s) in the sensor failed it just didn't display anymore.
Brian
If 2.7 is too low it should have given the LOW BATT message, no?
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heh guys:
just something i was thinking about- to prevent being stranded in the boonies somewhere, is it worth carrying a spare fob battery around in the glovebox. Another idea was just changing it out every other yr, or perhaps every tire change?
mat
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heh guys:
just something i was thinking about- to prevent being stranded in the boonies somewhere, is it worth carrying a spare fob battery around in the glovebox. Another idea was just changing it out every other yr, or perhaps every tire change?
It is not possible to be stranded by the active fob batteries dying. The active fob is also a passive fob and does not require batteries to use it to start the bike when used in contact with the ignition area.
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heh maxtog- are you saying you dont need the fob to start the bike? can you explain this to me?
mat
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heh maxtog- are you saying you dont need the fob to start the bike? can you explain this to me?
mat
It is in your owners manual too. ;)
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I think you nailed it Brian. BTW, my original tire pressure sensors have now been in service for over 5 years and are now working fine even in cold weather. They have gotten better with age.
Sometimes. Maybe.
The problem with that warning is that it depends on the transponder (the fob) detecting and transmitting a 'low battery voltage' condition to the main ECU where it would be displayed to you. The device is coded to respond to a certain voltage drop over a certain number of cycles to determine when the battery is out of acceptable range but like most simple or too simple tests, it really isn't very accurate. So you may get a low fob battery warning before the fob battery voltage is so low that the fob actually fails to transmit.... or not. In my opinion, it is a lousy test followed by an unreasonable 'feature' (the displayed low battery warning) that fools a lot of people into thinking something is wrong when really it is the test itself that is flawed.
Your fob battery voltage is too low by actual measurement and the fob has failed to transmit; normally you would just replace the battery and think nothing of it but because you were expecting that warning it fools you into looking for some problem when there really is not a problem. Not blaming you here Bob, I think it is just that the mfg. tries to give us additional and sometimes sophisticated functions that don't really work out. Look at the number of 'low battery' problems that C-14's have had on the tire pressure sensors- it would seem that we would be better off if that function just was not included on the vehicle and when the battery(s) in the sensor failed it just didn't display anymore.
Brian
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heh maxtog- are you saying you dont need the fob to start the bike? can you explain this to me?
mat
The bike can NOT be started without a fob, period.
The bike has two ways to 'see' the fob. One way works with the batteries, when you press the stove knob key down the bike sends a signal out which the fob answers and tells the bike that it's ok to turn the ignition on, this works within a radius of ~5'.
If the fob batteries are dead the fob can't answer, but don't fret, the engineers have this covered. If the fob batteries are dead you can pull the lil flat key out from the back of the fob and hold the fob against the top of the key area on the bike's ignition, there's a flat 'boss' area for this. Now with the fob being so close the bike can 'see' it and this allows the ignition to be turned on.
Capish?
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That would be "capiche" or "capisci".
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That would be "capiche" or "capisci".
I stand corrected.
In my defense.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Capish (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Capish)
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Paging Mr's MG and Ugo.....call waiting on the lobby phone.
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Paging Mr's MG and Ugo.....call waiting on the lobby phone.
We're overdue for a video me thinks. ;)
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I stand corrected.
In my defense.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Capish (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Capish)
Just my little pet peeve. If you're gonna use a foreign language phrase it bugs me to see it spelled phonetically. Admittedly, Capish is not as bad as Walla for the French "Voilà"
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:) How's your bike holding up? Any more parts fall off lately? ;)
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Just my little pet peeve. If you're gonna use a foreign language phrase it bugs me to see it spelled phonetically. Admittedly, Capish is not as bad as Walla for the French "Voilà"
I always thought that was some kinda funky violin? ;)
Ps, maybe you need a new pet, how's about a nice rescue dog?
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:) How's your bike holding up? Any more parts fall off lately? ;)
Thanks for asking. :) Other than the caps on my 12 volt receptacles falling off everything is hanging together, although not so tightly as when new.
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I always thought that was some kinda funky violin? ;)
Ps, maybe you need a new pet, how's about a nice rescue dog?
I've got a dog, thanks.
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Thanks for asking. :) Other than the caps on my 12 volt receptacles falling off everything is hanging together, although not so tightly as when new.
Story of my life.... Glad all is well.
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If the fob batteries are dead the fob can't answer, but don't fret, the engineers have this covered. If the fob batteries are dead you can pull the lil flat key out from the back of the fob and hold the fob against the top of the key area on the bike's ignition, there's a flat 'boss' area for this. Now with the fob being so close the bike can 'see' it and this allows the ignition to be turned on.
Capish?
Thx Conrad. i think i understand it now. The explanation in the manual seems vague. I question whether kipass would recognize the fob if the battery were completely dead, but as long as there's a back-up plan that works for a weak battery- thats cool.
many thx- mat
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Maybe but it absolutely IS possible to be stranded by a dead fob battery and a dose of ignorance. It seems that a lot (most?) people jump on this bike and ride off into the sunset without gaining any understanding of KiPass at all. We can argue about how that happens, who's fault it is (the owner, the dealer, Kawasaki) but in the end it is what seems to be happening pretty often. So eventually what that owner / rider does end up with a dead fob battery, he or she does not have the knowledge to go to 'Plan B' and start the bike. Why there was even a thread on the other forum where one gentleman stated how he narrowly avoided disaster and cleverly worked his way around that problem. A Genius
I tells ya'.
So while I agree with the basic idea that one cannot be stranded by a dead fob battery (as one cannot be locked INSIDE a car), it seems to happen all too often. Perhaps a sticker on the bike pointing out how to use the RFID portion of the fob is in order, sort of like the diagram instructions on how to use the tire jack is in place on most (all?) modern cars? In a better world it would never happen but in real life I think it is a valid enough problem that a little adjustment may be needed. And I think the problem is only going to get worse as more and more C-14's are purchased used and those folks get little to no instruction about the bike instead of the poor, cursory instruction some of us got when we bought them new.
Brian
It is not possible to be stranded by the active fob batteries dying. The active fob is also a passive fob and does not require batteries to use it to start the bike when used in contact with the ignition area.
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Agreed Brian. i purchased the bike used and the previous owner was not even aware he could remove the kipass key for the FSS. The owners manual is in need of a proofreading by someone with a bit of language arts training, and my city no longer has a kawasaki dealer, so this forum really is my only source.
thx guys
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There is a host of information available on KiPass on this site- probably more than you ever would want (or could choke through).
I think the biggest problem with KiPass is that it is a new and, so far, unique system that is just unfamilar to just about all first- time C-14 owners. The info. the dealer passes along ranges from very good to totally useless and the new owner really has no reason to go searching for information about the system.
I really do think a simple diagram of how to use the RFID portion of a fob might be a good idea if pasted somewhere like underneat the saddle. Of course to get under the saddle with a dead fob battery an owner would have to at least know there is a key inside of every fob.... more information that seems to be a secret all too often.
Brian
Agreed Brian. i purchased the bike used and the previous owner was not even aware he could remove the kipass key for the FSS. The owners manual is in need of a proofreading by someone with a bit of language arts training, and my city no longer has a kawasaki dealer, so this forum really is my only source.
thx guys