Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: elektradw on October 29, 2012, 11:30:49 AM
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Just thought I would add this post I wrote for the COG. After reading all the break in misguided information, I thought some facts about what happens in the first hours of new bike ownership might be interesting.
Happy reading.
The biggest myth expounded on motorcycle forums and new bike manuals is the need for easy break in. Mostly it is thought that that crank/rod bearings, trans. bearings and gear surfaces require a certain amount of break in before you can ride it like it was designed. I'v read these posts and manuals time and time again and there are some incorrect assumption.
Babbit bearings that are used on most modern day crankshafts and connecting rods (except HD engines) DO NOT REQURE ANY BREAK IN. Bearing are designed to run on a film of oil that cannot be compressed. Any extended metal on metal contact, except at rest, would destroy the bearing surface, main or rod. This is why most engine wear occurs at startup. In addition, the surface of a babbit bearing is as soft as lead. The purpose of this soft metal layer is so that any minute metal fragments in the oil supply not filtered will hopefully embed into the soft bearing surface and remain there, leaving the crank unharmed.
Ball bearings found in transmissions (and HD connecting rods) are among the most closely dimensioned parts in the world of manufacturing. The balls and races are polished to 1micro inch or 1,000,000th inch tolerances. There is NO BREAK IN REQUIRED ON ANY ROLLER BEARING.
Even gears and valve seats are so finely polished in today's manufacturing techniques they require NO BREAK IN.
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance, or out of spec part, is an extremely rare occurrence. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running-in will fix the problem.
The only break in on a modern engine is piston ring to cylinder wall. The very reason the cylinders are cross-hatched honed is to facilitate mating of the ring and cylinder wall and provide the tightest possible seal in the combustion chamber. The majority of this seal, whether successful or not, happens in the first 50 miles or so of riding. The tighter the seal the higher the compression the more power and less oil loss and contamination.
Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil off the cylinder walls to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber when not under any load. The rings seal from the actual combustion gas pressure itself !! The pressure gets behind the rings forcing them outward against the cylinder wall.
New rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible. If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the cylinder wall roughness before they fully seat.
With less than a perfect seal in the combustion chamber you have less compression and power, and a lifetime of leakage contaminating the oil with blow-by gasses which contain acids and other combustion by products. A badly leaking cylinder will eventually burn a piston skirt and cause scuffing and cylinder wear.
And it wouldn't hurt to do an extra oil change very early, like after the first 50-100 miles. With the metal being scrubbed off the cylinder walls and rings, the last thing you want is that metal floating around your engine. The cam chain will act as a conveyor belt moving that contaminated oil up into the valve train. Not a good thing. Worth the extra couple of bucks. And stick with Kawi petroleum based oil for at least the first couple of oil changes before, and if, you switch to synthetic.
Hard break in (not following the owners manual break in instructions) may seem controversial and will test a persons knowledge of the physics involved. Easy break ins will not necessarily harm an engine, but from the standpoint of power and durability race teams will always use the hard break in rule where seconds and a couple of extra HP make the difference between winning and losing a race and durability may mean a winning or losing race season.
My personal take on easy break ins has more to do with manufacturer's liability. Getting used to the power of a new motorcycle over time is certainly a safer way to break in a new rider.
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:popcorn:
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:popcorn:
indeed...
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indeed...
Im not going to comment technically on Motorcycle engine break-in as Im not a bike engine expert, but having had 83 stays at Holiday Inn Express this year I will say the 600 mile Break-in period did perplex me.
I've built several race engines that after initial fire up to ensure proper function, pressures, vacuum and ran up for about 15 minutes for ring seating, the engine went onward to full race duty.
Still, I follow Kawasaki's recommended break-in just so I could say I did. Thats my story and Im sticking to it
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:banghead: .......nice 2nd forum post. ::)
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I rebuild my engine after every ride, don't you? :o
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Who doesn't? Me for instance.
I changed the oil at 200 miles (rode normally) then rode another 1800 (normally), changed the oil again, and rode normally until about 5k and changed it again. Then on 5k intervals roughly. At 50k plus it doesn't use any oil. Still rides well.
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:banghead: .......nice 2nd forum post. ::)
Still on your meds, eh?
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Who doesn't? Me for instance.
I changed the oil at 200 miles (rode normally) then rode another 1800 (normally), changed the oil again, and rode normally until about 5k and changed it again. Then on 5k intervals roughly. At 50k plus it doesn't use any oil. Still rides well.
*WINNER* 8)
Now let's :stirpot: Did you switch to synth? When did you? :rotflmao:
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After rebuilding my old RT, I warmed it up, checked for leaks(base, valve cover, etc), then took it on one of my favorite local roads for some full throttle exercises. Still running strong.
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Still on your meds, eh?
Basically no, only take 2 when I go to bed......PT starts next Monday though. :yikes:
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You theorize all you want but there is a reason why kawa specs a break in procedure. It even includes things I have never of before, like let the bike idle for 30 secs (I think that was the duration, don't flame me if it is longer) before driving off.
Things DO break in during the first 500 miles for sure.
When I got my bike, I rode it for a little over 500 miles stopping only for fuel. I noticed that the bike was a lot quieter at 500 miles, had a less clattery sound to it. The tone of the bike changed.
I did exactly what the manual said, observing all the speed limitations.
I did a 4000 mile trip last month and the oil level was exactly where it was when I started- at the top line.
I am happy.
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I broke mine in by riding from Pittsburgh to Iowa and back. I did a little over 800 miles the first day, then came back the next day. I did vary the speed a bit like it says to in the manual. I basically followed the manual with respect to break in but I didn't obsess over it. My thought is that it is better to not beat an engine right off the bat and there is nothing the OP or anyone else wrote that makes me feel any differently. Things do break in. There will be more metal in the oil when you change it the first time.
Modern engines do not have the same break in issues that the old engines did, due to better tolerances in manufacturing, etc., but they do break in.
Yes, people build and immediately run engines on the race track. I have done so in the past too. Of course the engine was intended for the purpose and to run it 600 miles first would be ridiculous. I also didn't expect to run that engine for 100,000 miles.
Thank you for coming over from COG to enlighten us.
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Yes, people build and immediately run engines on the race track. I have done so in the past too. Of course the engine was intended for the purpose and to run it 600 miles first would be ridiculous. I also didn't expect to run that engine for 100,000 miles.
Good point..Very true!!
Not to digress too much.. I did find humor in your comment only because it oddly hit home unintentionally.. I blew a motor in one of my trucks and took a used race engine, recammed it and had it in the truck for 6 years hauling trailers and a boat. To your point exactly, I didnt expect to run that engine long term..
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Good point..Very true!!
Not to digress too much.. I did find humor in your comment only because it oddly hit home unintentionally.. I blew a motor in one of my trucks and took a used race engine, recammed it and had it in the truck for 6 years hauling trailers and a boat. To your point exactly, I didnt expect to run that engine long term..
Sounds like it was probably a fun truck. :D
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*WINNER* 8)
Now let's :stirpot: Did you switch to synth? When did you? :rotflmao:
5k :)
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Hit 7,500 rpms on the test ride,
THAT is why I bought it ;) I was all smiles.
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the colder it is the more i let it idle, and warm up a bit,, then its b,a,u, (business as usuall) since i just went thru this, it was of little concern, no matter where i had the tach needle, It is a very smooth, powerfull bike! ;D
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I bought my '08 with 6k on the clock. I have no idea how it was broke in. I'll on occassion bump the rev limiter til I run out of road. Never give break-in a second thought.
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I tried to strictly follow the break in period in the owners manual, but I had some excursions up to 7.5K a couple of times myself. My brother hit red line in 3rd gear when he hopped on within the first 600 miles.
My Concours is running fine. I cringed when it happened, but she took it in stride. The dealer mechanic told me not to worry about it.
so now with 16,500 miles on her I don't.
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*WINNER* 8)
Now let's :stirpot: Did you switch to synth? When did you? :rotflmao:
I don't use synthetic oil. I only use oil made from free range dinosaurs.
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Just this one time I didn't. Put Kwak 'normal' oil in it. I hates it I does. Going back to synthetic on the next change. It's not as smooth on the shifts and it's noisier (purely subjective of course).
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In a former life I was on an engine R&D team. We developed engines, did destruct tests, wear tests, established oil parameters, and optimal break in procedures. There is no way in HELL we would "mototune" an engine that we expected to last several thousands of hours.
Accelerated hard break in procedures have been developed for race engines that only need to last a season, or in some cases, one race before they are rebuilt. Normal break in procedures take too long for frequently rebuilt engines.
Problem with railing on the engine too early in the process is that one of the critical elements of engine break in, work hardening, has not occurred yet and clearances can be lost prematurely, and uneven wear patterns can develop on soft metal surfaces. You -can- apply these methods to an engine and it -might- go 200,000 miles but it's a crapshoot. You're just as likely to start blowing smoke out the tail at 2,000 miles.
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I am not sure if the factory recommended procedures are overkill or not. Probably. But I followed them to the letter. They designed the bike, they built the bike, they wrote the manual, they have the warranty. It just wasn't worth not following the procedures.
Besides, it takes me a long time to get used to a bike, anyway, so I felt no need to push it for quite a while after I got it.
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I am not sure if the factory recommended procedures are overkill or not. Probably. But I followed them to the letter. They designed the bike, they built the bike, they wrote the manual, they have the warranty. It just wasn't worth not following the procedures.
Besides, it takes me a long time to get used to a bike, anyway, so I felt no need to push it for quite a while after I got it.
Overkill yes, helped written by lawyers.......yes.
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I am not sure if the factory recommended procedures are overkill or not. Probably. But I followed them to the letter. They designed the bike, they built the bike, they wrote the manual, they have the warranty. It just wasn't worth not following the procedures.
Besides, it takes me a long time to get used to a bike, anyway, so I felt no need to push it for quite a while after I got it.
I agree. I see no sense in going crazy with a new bike or car. I followed the procedure. It didn't really bother me to do it since I had it broke in in less than a day anyway. I figured I could wait that long. ;D
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I went on an 1800 mile trip after I did my oil change and I drove it normally. I'm not a wild and crazy guy on the road.. Blue Ridge Parkway, Interstate riding through NC, TN, KY, OH, WV, and back to VA in very hot weather....got as high as 52mpg and no I wasn't babying it.
Question to the membership: Has anyone had an issue with their bikes that can be directly related to not breaking it in properly....such as warranty refusal etc...? Also has anyone had engine issues (excessive oil usage) because they (subjective) feel they didn't break it in according to Kwak?
My answer is I haven't heard of anyone having any issues here on this forum. What say you?
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Having built hundreds of engines, I can absolutely say that the original post is correct in virtually all counts. In fact I'll go one further - what most folks don't do during break in is short / hard accels with throttle closed low gear decels. Pull alot of vacuum to pull the rings up against the ring lands to get them sealed and broken in. When I break in an engine I get it up to temp, take it out on the road and give hard throttle, but only up to mid / high mid rpms. Hard decels over and over. you can literally feel the engine become more responsive on each pull as it develops compression. Change oil at 50 miles or less, again around 100, then again around 500. After that I go to synthetic. I've done alot of auto / truck engines this way, and also did my 1109 and a couple 1052 c-10's this way. ask the guys who ride the engines I built if they burn oil, if they're strong, and if they last. JMO, Steve
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Steve you are very correct in the hard acceleration, then hard deceleration with throttle closed. I forgot to mention that tip in my post. The hard deceleration also helps to flush the cylinders with oil to help remove metal scrubbed off the cylinder walls. My C14 just past 35,000 miles and I do not add a thimble full of oil between 5,000 mile oil changes. Bike runs as good as it did new, maybe better.
Love to get the juices flowing. Nice to see all the comments to this thread. Keep them coming guys. Don't you just love controversy?
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:popcorn:
most folks kinda "ease" into the swing here....
this oughta be fun for a while...
:grouphug: :grouphug: :rotflmao: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Question to the membership: Has anyone had an issue with their bikes that can be directly related to not breaking it in properly....such as warranty refusal etc...? Also has anyone had engine issues (excessive oil usage) because they (subjective) feel they didn't break it in according to Kwak?
My answer is I haven't heard of anyone having any issues here on this forum. What say you?
Excessive oil consumption can be subjective. Kawa might say it is more than a quart every 1000 miles and I'd say that is excessive. I remember when Suzuki shipped out those Bandit 1200 bikes with defective rings, they said that was the spec and they'd fill up the bike with oil, put a special seal on the filler/drain plug and ask you to drive 1000 miles and come back. Personally, I'd consider a quart every 3000 miles to be pushing it. It has been 5000 miles since my last change and the oil is where it was at change time (I followed the manual to the letter). I bet if you were to survey, you'd get all kinds of variations of oil usage. If someone is getting a quart of oil usage every 3000 miles, I'd be curious to how they broke it in.
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The last three bikes I've owned including the C14 have lost no measurable quantities of oil between changes.
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break-in is ride it like you stole it, unless you have a dyno mchine to break it in on such as we do our new track bikes
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I'm disappointed. I went on a trip for the weekend and was expecting to find this thread with 21 pages, locked or worse...
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Sorry about that, Martin.
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Having built hundreds of engines, I can absolutely say that the original post is correct in virtually all counts. In fact I'll go one further - what most folks don't do during break in is short / hard accels with throttle closed low gear decels. Pull alot of vacuum to pull the rings up against the ring lands to get them sealed and broken in. When I break in an engine I get it up to temp, take it out on the road and give hard throttle, but only up to mid / high mid rpms. Hard decels over and over. you can literally feel the engine become more responsive on each pull as it develops compression. Change oil at 50 miles or less, again around 100, then again around 500. After that I go to synthetic. I've done alot of auto / truck engines this way, and also did my 1109 and a couple 1052 c-10's this way. ask the guys who ride the engines I built if they burn oil, if they're strong, and if they last. JMO, Steve
this is kinda how I break in my new bikes. I start out in 1st gear and excell and decell without touching the brakes or getting the RPMs up higher than recommended. then I do the same in second and first. Work it up for the first 20 miles or so. Then I ride it like the MOM recommends. I haven't put more than 50,000 miles on a bike before selling, but all was well with them.