Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: philipintexas on May 27, 2011, 03:37:14 PM
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This is for folks who have the E55 trunk installed. Does it crowd your passenger? It's a BIG trunk but what does your passenger think about the room it leaves them?
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I just bought the Kawasaki case (used) and cannot discern if it is 47, 48 or 55 liters. Nevertheless, after some intensive adjustment with the wife, I actually had to slide it rearward a lot more than I had anticipated.
I am currently evaluating the situation, but suspect I might be purchasing one of your racks in the near future.
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Remember the conversation we had about this Phil? I replaced one of those JC Whitney top boxes with a Givi 55 and the front of the Givi was about 2" further forward than the JC Whitney box. By the way, I had taken the backrest off of the JC Whitney box to give my wife a little more room, and there is not a backrest on the Givi so I am comparing just the top boxes here. The JC Whitney box comes with a backrest already on it though so as delivered, both boxes are probably pretty close to the same point regarding how much they project forward.
I made a new rack for mine, it sets the top box mounting points back 2" compared with the JC Whitney mounting plate, and I added two additional fasteners all the way forward to strengthen the mount. There is little deflection at 100 lbs. of down force on the tongue of the mount, all the way toward the back edge of the plate.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Racksideview.jpg)
The extra forward screws to stiffen the mount-
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Newrackfrontforwardbolts.jpg)
Brian
This is for folks who have the E55 trunk installed. Does it crowd your passenger? It's a BIG trunk but what does your passenger think about the room it leaves them?
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I just bought the Kawasaki case (used) and cannot discern if it is 47, 48 or 55 liters. Nevertheless, after some intensive adjustment with the wife, I actually had to slide it rearward a lot more than I had anticipated.
I am currently evaluating the situation, but suspect I might be purchasing one of your racks in the near future.
If it's the Kawi case I think the biggest one they make is the 47 liter, that's what I have. I have Phils rack and was able to slide the trunk mount backwards so that I could clear the Corbin backrest...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00068-20101213-1610.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00076-20101213-1623.jpg)
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I have the E55 on Phil's rack. My E55 does not have a backrest pad on it. Based on input from others I decided to try it without the pad before spending the extra 60.00 or so. My wife does not desire the backrest pad since she has no complaints with it as is. She actually leans back from the normal seating position, I would guess about a 100degree angle.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/DSC02429.jpg)
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There is little deflection at 100 lbs. of down force on the tongue of the mount, all the way toward the back edge of the plate.
Brian
Really? Wow! I had no idea that the factory grab rails were that robust. So I guess the limiting factor with the stock setup is the black plastic tray? I figured that my GIVI rack was much stronger than what the rails could support on their own.
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No, I said that badly- I meant the rack I made would not deflect much with a 100 lb. load, not the grab rails. I do not any stress data on those other than they are very tough and robust. As far as 100 lbs. load, that is a 'walk in the park' for those things; you can pick the back of the bike up by a rack fastened to those rails. And yes, the factory rack is the limiting factor- it is more of a place holder for a much sturdier rack. It is probably perfectly suitable for the 22 lb. limit per the warning sticker but hanging a big top box loaded down with.... er, stuff, would be a really bad idea IMO.
Back to the grab rails for a moment, when I drilled the two holes in the front of them to mount a Givi backrest, imagine my amazement when I found those "aluminum" rails are plastic! It is a fairly soft, fiber embedded material that seems to have tremendous fatigue resistance. At first I thought it was on the cheesy side but after thinking about it for a bit and also not hearing of any failures, I think they were a great choice of materials. Aluminum would seem to be a better choice but a lot of softer metals like aluminum, copper and a few others have lousy fatigue resistance; that means that after a lot of cycles of loading and unloading well within the material's limits, the material it tends to become brittle and crack.
Brian
Really? Wow! I had no idea that the factory grab rails were that robust. So I guess the limiting factor with the stock setup is the black plastic tray? I figured that my GIVI rack was much stronger than what the rails could support on their own.
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I installed the GIVI top box with the GIVI kit. It is very sturdy and my SO says that it is very comfortable. She laments my selling the Gold Wing, but still feels that she can fall asleep on the Connie with the GIVI.
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Phil, I just got your rack last tuesday as well as my GIVI E55 topcase tuesday. Installed in all in about 30 minutes. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to get any pics of the bike with the rack and topcase on or with her on the bike as a passenger with the E55. Just another one of those projects that DIDN'T get done this weekend :(
I will post this week sometime...
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Phil-
Did a 200 mile run with a 55 mounted to your rack yesterday. The 55 has the optional Givi backrest. The wife commented that the case is stable and backrest is fine, but is a little too high for her total comfort. it hits her just a little below the points of the shoulder blades. She's asked if I could make a backrest add-on that would mount below the Givi rest to provide better lower back (lumbar) support for her. I've got just about 3 months to get it all sorted out before we hit the road for a 2500 mile trip to Nova Scotia. Any recommendations from anyone about additional back support will be greatly welcomed!
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wedge a rolled up cheap sleeping back (or a youth sleeping bag) between the bottom of the GIVI and the seat. Should provide a nice lumbar roll for her as well as some softness.
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plenty of room for passenger comfortably with E55 GIVI. many of my passengers lean back into it. doubt GIVI could sell many (or we'd use them) if we couldn't take pretty wiminz on our bikes.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/teressa_steve.jpg)
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Phil and I talked about this not too long ago. I decided to send mine back which I still haven't gotten back into town to do so. Work sends me to the middle of no where but at least I can drag my bike with me. It mounts as easily and effortlessly as he says and looks awesome but was just too close to the wife. She weighs a buck nothing so its not a passenger size problem. After talking to Phil, my measurements tell me I need to build one that is about 2 inches longer. I'll put up pictures once the process begins. I swear I'll get the rack in the mail this week Phil.
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Phil and I talked about this not too long ago. I decided to send mine back which I still haven't gotten back into town to do so. Work sends me to the middle of no where but at least I can drag my bike with me. It mounts as easily and effortlessly as he says and looks awesome but was just too close to the wife. She weighs a buck nothing so its not a passenger size problem. After talking to Phil, my measurements tell me I need to build one that is about 2 inches longer. I'll put up pictures once the process begins. I swear I'll get the rack in the mail this week Phil.
Per my pic above my passengers have no problem with the E55, and room to spare. Is the problem your E55 trunk size itself, or where you have it mounted?
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The reason for this post is to help me decide whether to recommend against using my rack, the SW-Motech mounting kit and the E55 trunk. Since the trunk position is fixed on this combination, I'm curious to know how it works with people who are using it. I'm still confused, some passengers like the position and others don't. Looking at the photos the trunk appears to sit the same on my rack or the Givi reinforced rack. Adding the backrest may exacerbate the problem and passengers come in all sizes so my guess is the large trunk works as well as smaller ones. Thanks for the input.
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Something I have not seen anyone mention yet is different saddles combined with top boxes; I believe a Corbin positions the passenger considerably further back than a stock saddle. My wife and I are using a Corbin so that might be part of or the entire problem with the top box being too far forward. It might be worth mentioning this to your customers. Just a thought.
Brian
The reason for this post is to help me decide whether to recommend against using my rack, the SW-Motech mounting kit and the E55 trunk. Since the trunk position is fixed on this combination, I'm curious to know how it works with people who are using it. I'm still confused, some passengers like the position and others don't. Looking at the photos the trunk appears to sit the same on my rack or the Givi reinforced rack. Adding the backrest may exacerbate the problem and passengers come in all sizes so my guess is the large trunk works as well as smaller ones. Thanks for the input.
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The reason for this post is to help me decide whether to recommend against using my rack, the SW-Motech mounting kit and the E55 trunk. Since the trunk position is fixed on this combination, I'm curious to know how it works with people who are using it. I'm still confused, some passengers like the position and others don't. Looking at the photos the trunk appears to sit the same on my rack or the Givi reinforced rack. Adding the backrest may exacerbate the problem and passengers come in all sizes so my guess is the large trunk works as well as smaller ones. Thanks for the input.
+1
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Stock seat with Spencer Mod, Phils Rack, E55, Medium sized passenger, no backrest pad. NO PROBLEM..Even if I added a backrest there appears to be plenty of room.
Here is a closer look from the other side:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/E55.jpg)
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The reason for this post is to help me decide whether to recommend against using my rack, the SW-Motech mounting kit and the E55 trunk. Since the trunk position is fixed on this combination, I'm curious to know how it works with people who are using it. I'm still confused, some passengers like the position and others don't. Looking at the photos the trunk appears to sit the same on my rack or the Givi reinforced rack. Adding the backrest may exacerbate the problem and passengers come in all sizes so my guess is the large trunk works as well as smaller ones. Thanks for the input.
I have an older Givi 55, so it may not be applicable. The backrest is both too high and too far forward (compared to where it was on my ST1100). The height issue is definetly an issue with the rack mounting rails. If you made a rack that allowed mounting further rearwards it would mitigate the too high issue and definetly be useful (an adjustable rack would be outstanding).
I have decided to try and figure out a sanitary way to put a GIVI TB104 on your rack and then go with soft luggage.
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I also was a little concerned about the position so before I returned my brand new E55 as it was faulty for a replacement I mounted it and had the wife hop on.
Just sitting in the driveway she said she has plenty of room. Lean forward to hug me and lean back to rest on the case. My wife and I are both athletic builds so size can't be it. I have the stock seat with Phils rack.
Phil, as far as I can tell your rack is perfect.
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I'm thinking of ordering the E55, but I'm gunna get the backrest to test.
Is the backrest a permanent install or can it be put on and taken off without sacraficing the waterproof of the case?
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I'm thinking of ordering the E55, but I'm gunna get the backrest to test.
Is it a permanent install or can it be put on and taken off without sacraficing the waterproof of the case?
My E52 had to have 2 holes drilled into it for the backrest, I would assume the E55 would be the same way.
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Thanks, I'll tape it on to test then. :)
I also have Phil's rack.
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Ordered the E55NT with smoked lenses, candy apple cover, and backrest.
Premier Cycle Accessorries
www.pca-one.com (http://www.pca-one.com)
In cause anyone is curious.
I went with the E55NT and the painted lid instead of a prepainted E55 becaue I could get the smoked lenses and the cost difference was less than $20.
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Ordered the E55NT with smoked lenses, candy apple cover, and backrest.
Premier Cycle Accessorries
Whoa congrats!!!!
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I'll have to look at the images above when I can take the laptop into the garage this evening, but it appears the E55 actually mounts further back than the E52 which I currently have. With the backrest installed, the E52 does crowd my passenger (though not uncomfortably so). Rather aggravating to find out after I shelled out for the 52 that the 55 would offer both more storage and more passenger space. Grrr...
I actually have a draft email in my outlook at home to Phil asking about whether or not it would be possible to add an inch or so to the rack to move the SW Motech mount further back and allow more passenger room... may be able to justify the E55 upgrade to SWMBO since it appears she'd have more room.
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With Phil's rack, I can't see how two Monokey Givi cases would give the passenger more or less room. I would assume the slots under the case, where the forward most pins slip in, would be the same location on both cases. Unless the E52 is not a monokey.
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With Phil's rack, I can't see how two Monokey Givi cases would give the passenger more or less room. I would assume the slots under the case, where the forward most pins slip in, would be the same location on both cases. Unless the E52 is not a monokey.
E52 is a monokey case. Maybe the slots are positioned differently on the E55.
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Certainly possible. I wish Givi had pics of all sides.
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I'm very interested in buying the E55 and phil's rack... so what im seeing is that if I do the SW MOTECH kit I should be pretty good on room for the wife?
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Certainly possible. I wish Givi had pics of all sides.
Rumor has it that Steve is pretty handy with a camera and has the 55. ;)
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E52 is a monokey case. Maybe the slots are positioned differently on the E55.
OK guys here are your answers. Both cases are Monokey and both mount the same way. I have both the 52 and the 55 and both have backrests so I took a few measurements. The 52 sits 9/16" farther back so you would have more passenger room with the 52, BUT my daughter says she can't feel the difference between the 2 cases so 9/16" is not really that much.
Steve.
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Phil, what if you mill in a groove instead of just the bolt holes to attach the rack?Therefore, people could move your rack foward or back. Similiar to the slots in the projectd rack.
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Huero: Two reasons, Premier accessories feels that the slots in his rack were his idea and told me he has patented them. I don't know if that's possible, but either way, I tried slots and personally don't like the look. I believe I have only had one person who returned a rack because his passenger didn't like the trunk position. I've sold hundreds to people who find the position OK. I've run into a similar situation with people who want to use a Corbin "smuggler" and my rack is too far forward so I've modified racks for them. I really don't want to alter the esthetics of the rack to satisfy a small minority. For me it's easier to custom modify racks for them.
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Huero: Two reasons, Premier accessories feels that the slots in his rack were his idea and told me he has patented them. I don't know if that's possible, but either way, I tried slots and personally don't like the look. I believe I have only had one person who returned a rack because his passenger didn't like the trunk position. I've sold hundreds to people who find the position OK. I've run into a similar situation with people who want to use a Corbin "smuggler" and my rack is too far forward so I've modified racks for them. I really don't want to alter the esthetics of the rack to satisfy a small minority. For me it's easier to custom modify racks for them.
I'd like to see that patent. For that matter a person could say that Kawasaki patented the rack's hole locations so no one else can drill holes in the same place rendering any aftermarket rack capable of being bolted onto the stock rails a patent infringement.
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Love my slotted Premier rack. Move it back with a passenger. Slide it forward otherwise.
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If it's the Kawi case I think the biggest one they make is the 47 liter, that's what I have. I have Phils rack and was able to slide the trunk mount backwards so that I could clear the Corbin backrest...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00068-20101213-1610.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00076-20101213-1623.jpg)
I am considering this setup as well. I do not yet have the backrest, but my Corbin is setup for one. Was it easy to slide it back and can you only do that with Phil's rack? I assume from what I'm reading here this will only work with mounts like the one on the Kawasaki box and not the Givi.
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I am considering this setup as well. I do not yet have the backrest, but my Corbin is setup for one. Was it easy to slide it back and can you only do that with Phil's rack? I assume from what I'm reading here this will only work with mounts like the one on the Kawasaki box and not the Givi.
Slidding the trunk back with my setup is very quick PH, I also have Phil's T-nuts, just losen from the top and slide back and re-tighten, done! :)
As for other trunks I can't say because I haven't tried anything other than my Kawi, but my guess would be that you would need a mounting plate of some sort like the Kawi uses, a direct to rack mount I don't think has moveable mount points, but maybe I'm wrong? :-\
I think you'd really like this setup bro, I know I do and so does mama. :thumbs:
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Slidding the trunk back with my setup is very quick PH, I also have Phil's T-nuts, just losen from the top and slide back and re-tighten, done! :)
As for other trunks I can't say because I haven't tried anything other than my Kawi, but my guess would be that you would need a mounting plate of some sort like the Kawi uses, a direct to rack mount I don't think has moveable mount points, but maybe I'm wrong? :-\
I think you'd really like this setup bro, I know I do and so does mama. :thumbs:
Thanks for the info. I would probably add Phil's rack at the same time.
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Thanks for the info. I would probably add Phil's rack at the same time.
Yes, definately, Phils rack is an absolute must for this set-up! Get the T-nuts at the same time, they're well worth it for only a couple bucks more. :thumbs:
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Personally, i dont like the look of the slots over the regular hole either. But, the adjustability may win out for some. I am almost certain he has no patent for the slots. I am not trying to bash him or start a urinary olympics with anyone.
Anyway, i better shut up about it. Both racks look to be of quality.
I just got an 08' connie and as soon as possible, i will be buying your rack.
Thanks fellas,
Huero
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I have the Corbin seat with the back rest for the passenger. I wanted to keep that back rest because I feel more comfortable knowing a passenger can put as much weight on it as they want and not have to worry about that being transferred to the luggage rack. I ended up using both Phil's rack and the Givi rack to get it done. Using the combination of the two is completely solid. You could easily pick up the bike from the case mount. There is no movement whatsoever when trying to move the E55 case. Four bolts hold the Givi mount to the Givi rack then 4 bolts and spacers tie that into Phil's rack. The Givi rack also ties into the rear sub frame. I know it sits way back but it's not going anywhere and the passenger doesn't lean up against it.
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Nicely done Smoke! :thumbs:
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Cari signori L'Aftermarchet a paragone col mio prodotto ( PIASTRA IN ALLUMINIO ESTRUSO) c'è di mezzo il mare .
Soluzione pulita e eleganti per qualsiasi vostro fa bisogno.
Come per chi vuole mettere lo schienale basso e non al bauletto...io ho la soluzione con un pezzo solo,basta che predisponga la mia piastra con più 4 fori per
permettere uno spazio maggiore fra sella e bauletto in tutta sicurezza e eleganza.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/346lrh1.jpg)
Dear Gentlemen The Aftermarket in comparison with my product (PLATE ALUMINUM EXTRUDED) is half of the sea.
Clean and elegant solution for whatever your need is.
As for those who want to back down and not to the trunk ... I have the solution with one piece, just that predisposes my plate with more than 4 holes
allow more space between the seat and trunk safely and elegantly.
MGvalerio. 8)
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Phil,
I have your rack and the E55NT. I think it is a great setup and would recommend it. No complaints from the passengers. It might be a bit tight if you add a back rest to the Givi.
mbdcon
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I have a Phil's Rack and love it.
My Wife finds that with the Givi Maxia E52 with the back rest mounted on it, that it pushes her forward due to the back rest protruding forward of the rear of the seat (seat is a Corbin).
My solution (not yet installed is) to move the SW-MOTECH mounts rearward on the rack. I will do this by drilling and tapping holes for the back pins about an inch forward or so of where they are. Then I will fabricate a piece of alumnium that will bolt where the front latch is (likely coming up from under the rack mount) and attach the front latch to this piece of alumnium. This will move the bag completely reward about an inch and be easy to move forward for one up trips.
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I have a Phil's Rack and love it.
My Wife finds that with the Givi Maxia E52 with the back rest mounted on it, that it pushes her forward due to the back rest protruding forward of the rear of the seat (seat is a Corbin).
My solution (not yet installed is) to move the SW-MOTECH mounts rearward on the rack. I will do this by drilling and tapping holes for the back pins about an inch forward or so of where they are. Then I will fabricate a piece of alumnium that will bolt where the front latch is (likely coming up from under the rack mount) and attach the front latch to this piece of alumnium. This will move the bag completely reward about an inch and be easy to move forward for one up trips.
You may want to contact Phil, he now has a solution to this issue which provides adjust-ability to his rack.