Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: martin_14 on October 22, 2012, 08:50:54 AM
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I try to make the most out of every tank when I'm on a trip to minimise dead time (like while refueling) or just because I like it that way.
I know it sounds extreme but I like to refuel only when I'm running on fumes.
Now, do you know if there is any aftermarket thingy that can be fitted to a bike to tell the remaining amount of fuel in small increments for the last gallon or so?
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Put your display on the miles to empty mode.
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Put your display on the miles to empty mode.
I never tried that :banghead:
Since it changes all the time I though it had mad cow decease and dismissed it ever since.
Is it that accurate (at least at reading the fuel in the tank, not calculating how much it will last)?
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Keep in mind that the fuel pump lives inside the tank and is cooled by the gas inside there.
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Not that I have seen but if you like taking risks then one of these may be in order
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/twisted-throttle-s-msr-30oz-fuel-bottle (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/twisted-throttle-s-msr-30oz-fuel-bottle)
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Haven't heard of any aftermarket 'thingy', but I also have that same (bad?) habit. In the interest of full disclosure, the fuel pumping through the pump is used to cool the pump (protects it from overheating, reduces wear).
So, I have a system that I use. I always fill the tank right to the rim (never fill it this way if you're going to park it). I also reset the Average and trip 'A' meters.
When I'm getting low on fuel, I'll monitor the trip "A" odometer, and the Average fuel consumption display, and do the math in my head for distance to empty, based on slightly less than what I know the tank was last filled to. I say 'slightly less' because the Average reading can mess you up if the consumption rate of the end of the tank is much higher than the majority of that tank.
For example, in US values, I know I can put 6.2 gallons in the tank. Then, when getting low, I will multiply 6 times the Average value to recalculate my range, and compare it against the trip A reading. The extra 0.2 gallons is left as a buffer, though on occasion I will factor it in if the consumption rate for that tank has been very consistent.
You need to be aware of the rate of consumption, because if the last gallon was all low gear / high RPM, the average will not reflect it (trust me, I know this from experience).
Most will say 'just stop for fuel sooner'. Obviously they don't share our affliction. Besides, where's the sport in that?
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Put your display on the miles to empty mode.
That display is useless after 'Low Fuel' is displayed. ;)
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I like to refuel only when I'm running on fumes.
You'd be walking a lot around these parts.
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The Low Fuel display can be turned off. I know it's explained in the owners manual somewhere.
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The Low Fuel display can be turned off. I know it's explained in the owners manual somewhere.
Hold the top button for a few seconds then push the bottom button on the dash, but like Rob said the 'miles to empty' goes away once the low fuel indicator has been activated.
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Put your display on the miles to empty mode.
That does not work on a Concours when you have triggered the "Low Fuel" warning. What you have to do is as soon as you get the warning, reset one of your trip meters so you will know how many miles you have gone on the remaining fuel. You can estimate how much fuel is left based on your typical MPG and that you have 1.1 gal remaining. I always recommend you don't push it too far :) (For example, I typically can get 42MPG with no problem, so I will start getting concerned when I have gone 20 and very nervous at 35.)
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You'd be walking a lot around these parts.
:thumbs: There's quite a few see gas/buy gas stretchs of country here in the colonys.
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Keep in mind that the fuel pump lives inside the tank and is cooled by the gas inside there.
Yup, see no logical reason why pushing near fumes for that exact reason, and I think it typically takes less than 5 minutes to refuel.......yeah that is allot of wasted time.
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- how accurate is the "remaining mileage" reading ?
- the reason i ask is that i find the fuel gauge (the "bars") very misleading. Eg , the "bar" may be near the bottom but when i refuel , less that half a full-tank of fuel can go in (since I know a full tank is 22 liters/5.8 gallons)
.
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good points here:
- I forgot (as I said, I don't use it) that the "remaining miles" display is useless after the low fuel warning.
- Pokey: as C1xRider put it, we don't have to drive the same way. There are good reasons why I do what I do, but it would make it a long post and it wouldn't address my question.
- cablebandit: per law, in the Autostrada (Italian highways) there's gas every 25 miles or so. In Germany can be a bit more. It always makes me laugh when I hear a European saying "I was in the middle of nowhere!". No, you weren't ::)
- does somebody know what's the safe limit to push the range before the fuel pump is no longer submerged in fuel? That would be my limit, and (repeating my OP) I would like to know if there is any device that allows me to control accurately how much fuel I have left in the tank :)
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There are places around here where the next gas available is 200km (120miles) so you have to plan your gas stops. Remember: the only time you can have too much gas is when you're on fire.
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Remember: the only time you can have too much gas is when you're on fire.
Or in an elevator (http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/fart_in_elevator-2207.gif)
Or in bed ;D (http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/sfart_100-104.gif)
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:rotflmao:
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My bike regularly takes 4.6 gallons just when the low fuel light comes on. That leaves me 1.2 gallons. Which means I am still good for 40 -50 miles depending on how I'm riding. Most of my fill ups seem to be around 5.3 gallons or so. Close enough for me.
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- how accurate is the "remaining mileage" reading ?
- the reason i ask is that i find the fuel gauge (the "bars") very misleading. Eg , the "bar" may be near the bottom but when i refuel , less that half a full-tank of fuel can go in (since I know a full tank is 22 liters/5.8 gallons)
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I was riding this past weekend and refilled after 75 miles (top bar was gone on the "gauge") and it took 1.9 gallons. Almost two gallons for the first first bar must be why the rest of the bars seem to disappear so much quicker, or the fact that I fill past the interior floor plate on the gas hole. ;D
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I was riding this past weekend and refilled after 75 miles (top bar was gone on the "gauge") and it took 1.9 gallons. Almost two gallons for the first first bar must be why the rest of the bars seem to disappear so much quicker
That seems to be standard practice on just about every gas level display I have ever encountered. Stays up on F forever, then heads to E at an ever-increasing rate. It is a conspiracy, I say.
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Not on C-14s where it is simply a by- product of KiPass. As the tank level drops and the float <should> fall, the field of Lessened Gravity (TM) won't allow the float and arm to correctly follow the fuel down. While not quite able to overcome gravity completely, KiPass does render it far less important than it normal is; of the five fundamental forces, I believe KiPass falls between the Strong force and the Electromagnetic force in relative strength although it (KiPass) does seem to have a very short relative effective range.
On most other vehicles it IS a conspiracy. On Yamahas it is a design flaw and of Edsels it just does not matter.
Brian
That seems to be standard practice on just about every gas level display I have ever encountered. Stays up on F forever, then heads to E at an ever-increasing rate. It is a conspiracy, I say.
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The "thingy" that is required is an aux fuel tank. I carry about 17 liters extra which gives me about a range of approx 600 kms using both the main and aux. I don't plan on going 6 hrs every trip, but if required, needed or wanted it's there. I don't worry about running low and it's all about having options.
Dave
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My rule of thumb is
Once LOW FUEL rears it's irritating head I normally use the next gas station.
If I am within 30 miles from home (we have a cheaper gas station 1 mile from home) then I will risk it.
I have yet to run out of gas on the C14 but I do ride much more sensibly for that last 30 miles.
Gentle(-ish) starts and I stay below 80Mph.
So, I would guess that you could safely run 30 miles into reserve but how much farther you will get is pure guesswork.
In theory you should get at least 40 miles from reserve but I wouldn't risk it without having spare gas on board.
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Or in an elevator (http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/fart_in_elevator-2207.gif)
Or in bed ;D (http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/sfart_100-104.gif)
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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A few weeks ago I was caught with with no gas stations around. I went 44 km once the Low Fuel came on. When I stopped i put in 29.95 litres. That means 1 litre was still in the tank. But how much of that was usable, I don't know. Way too close for me. I usually fill 15 - 17 litres. I dont see any point in pushing it. it is easier to refuel often than push the bike.
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So what's that in real measure?
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The fuel pump is mounted in the bottom of the tank, in a slightly low well welded into the tank proper, and the fuel pickup is at the very bottom of the fuel pump. I cannot say with certainty but I think the amount of fuel left once the pump is starved and sucking air won't be more than a couple of ounces.
And BTW the fuel pump is lubricated and cooled with the fuel that is being pumped, not the actual volume of the fuel sloshing around inside the tank. As the fuel pump pumps too much fuel and the excess is sprayed back into the tank, the simple circulation of the fuel will keep the very small volume of fuel left in the tank cool so there is really no risk to the pump of merely running low on fuel or using all the available fuel. The risk to the pump is actually running the tank dry but even then the ECU will shut down the fuel pump three seconds after the engine stops running (for any reason, not just if it runs out of fuel).
Brian
A few weeks ago I was caught with with no gas stations around. I went 44 km once the Low Fuel came on. When I stopped i put in 29.95 litres. That means 1 litre was still in the tank. But how much of that was usable, I don't know. Way too close for me. I usually fill 15 - 17 litres. I dont see any point in pushing it. it is easier to refuel often than push the bike.
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hmm, with stock size tires, my speedometer reads arond 3 mph faster than my gps. giving my gps a pass on accuracy it would seem that your miles per gallon calculated by the ecu "might" be off, ie reporting a generous mileage. if this is all true i would be cautious depending on the odometer to accurately determine how much gas you have left. i have never really done the easy check and calculated it out after filling the tank. note* after replacing the rear tire with a 55, the speedometer is very close to the gps.
ken
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A few weeks ago I was caught with with no gas stations around. I went 44 km once the Low Fuel came on. When I stopped i put in 29.95 litres. That means 1 litre was still in the tank. But how much of that was usable, I don't know. Way too close for me. I usually fill 15 - 17 litres. I dont see any point in pushing it. it is easier to refuel often than push the bike.
- isn't the fuel tank capacity 22 liters , in total ?
.
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The fuel pump is mounted in the bottom of the tank, in a slightly low well welded into the tank proper, and the fuel pickup is at the very bottom of the fuel pump. I cannot say with certainty but I think the amount of fuel left once the pump is starved and sucking air won't be more than a couple of ounces.
And BTW the fuel pump is lubricated and cooled with the fuel that is being pumped, not the actual volume of the fuel sloshing around inside the tank. As the fuel pump pumps too much fuel and the excess is sprayed back into the tank, the simple circulation of the fuel will keep the very small volume of fuel left in the tank cool so there is really no risk to the pump of merely running low on fuel or using all the available fuel. The risk to the pump is actually running the tank dry but even then the ECU will shut down the fuel pump three seconds after the engine stops running (for any reason, not just if it runs out of fuel).
Brian
I can tell everyone with certainty that once the bike hesitates or stutters from no fuel, you only get a couple more blocks before you'll be parked. I've tested this scenario a couple of times... ::) :-[
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I can tell everyone with certainty that once the bike hesitates or stutters from no fuel, you only get a couple more blocks before you'll be parked. I've tested this scenario a couple of times... ::) :-[
And she's a heavy biatch to push eh Rob... ;) :(
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The tank only holds 21.95 liters or 5.8 US gallons...so if Chap can squeeze in an extra 8 liters , I say way to go!
Dave
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And she's a heavy biatch to push eh Rob... ;) :(
I'm sure she is, but I didn't even try. I've got a cell phone for those types of problems, ;)
I was only a mile from where my riding buddy lives, and I know he's always got a gas can around with a little bit in it. Plus, it only needed a few ounces, as I was less then a mile from the station I was headed to both times.
Now there have been a few times in the middle of BFE where I was getting very nervous, but still made it to a station under it's own power. One time I put 6.19 gallons in the darn thing. :o Jay knows the place - 76 station in Biggs Junction, after eating lunch in Tygh Valley 8) . One can burn a lot of fuel on that ride. :-X ;D
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The tank only holds 21.95 liters or 5.8 US gallons...so if Chap can squeeze in an extra 8 liters , I say way to go!
Dave
Correction. The tank is rated to hold 5.8 US gallons. In fact it will hold 6.2 (possibly a little more) US gallons. I have never run out of fuel but have pushed it to the limit a couple times and found out for myself. FYI: I add fuel about 3/4" past the interior gashole floorplate.
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Correction. The tank is rated to hold 5.8 US gallons. In fact it will hold 6.2 (possibly a little more) US gallons. I have never run out of fuel but have pushed it to the limit a couple times and found out for myself. FYI: I add fuel about 3/4" past the interior gashole floorplate.
Consider using protection when going past the gashole. :o
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any one knows from a device to accurately measure the remaining fuel on the tank?
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After three pages I'd guess not.
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any one knows from a device to accurately measure the remaining fuel on the tank?
Good try, Martin. I don't think we've heard of anything aftermarket like that. It probably could be 'programmed' into the computer to do that as I think it has the information but Kwak would have to do that. I'd rather see that than miles left to go.
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I love the wandering and beating and discussing and drifting into totally unexpected directions, specially if it doesn't include KI-PASS, but this time I really needed the answer to my original question. The best explanation came (surprise!) from Brian regarding how the fuel pump actually works and the small danger of running dry. Good thread, all in all. I learnt quite a few new things.
I guess I needed a distraction while my dealer does the 60 000 km (about 37 000 miles) service, puts rear tire and the infamous TÜV to keep the German authorities reassured that everything is as they dictate :-X. I'll pick her up tomorrow... can't wait.
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What's the TUV? sorry I don't have the two dots
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What's the TÜV? sorry I don't have the two dots
Maybe this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein)
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Maybe this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein)
Damn. Talk about a nanny state.
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Now there have been a few times in the middle of BFE where I was getting very nervous, but still made it to a station under it's own power. One time I put 6.19 gallons in the darn thing. :o Jay knows the place - 76 station in Biggs Junction, after eating lunch in Tygh Valley 8) . One can burn a lot of fuel on that ride. :-X ;D
Yes indeed Rob, know it well now thanks to you bro! :thumbs: :thumbs: :chugbeer:
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I have no qualms about going an extra 30 miles once the low fuel light comes on so I can get to a fuel station that has NO ethanal added.
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any one knows from a device to accurately measure the remaining fuel on the tank?
Dipstick!
No, not you Martin, a dipstick for the tank. ;)
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Dipstick!
No, not you Martin, a dipstick for the tank. ;)
Maybe a sight glass. I have a welder and a submarine window around here somewhere.............
;D
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Sorry I mis typed. Should have been 20.95 Litres that I put in. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to wear my glasses when typing.
The tank only holds 21.95 liters or 5.8 US gallons...so if Chap can squeeze in an extra 8 liters , I say way to go!
Dave
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I have no qualms about going an extra 30 miles once the low fuel light comes on so I can get to a fuel station that has NO ethanal added.
My highest bet was once in Dubrovnik, south of Croatia, when I left the city with the fuel light on. According to my GPS, the next gas station was 25 miles away. When I got there (driving like an old lady going to church) it was closed :banghead: I kept driving another 15 miles and found gas.
Total mileage of that tank: 401 km (252 miles). I refueled 21.3 lt (5.6 Gallon) to the neck plate.
After that, I did the experience many times that it is possible to drive 40 miles and still have a quarter of a gallon left, at least driving calmly.
BTW, I think I found wat I was looking for...
(http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/general-harley-davidson-chat/136635d1283326960-fuel-sight-gauge-sight_glass.jpg)
;)
Damn. Talk about a nanny state.
yeah, tell me about it... :'(
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Great looking tank,Martin. That should get you through two or three countrys. We'll need pics of the install.
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Most i've gotten is 227 miles,, mostly commuting to work, now we have the "winter blend gas" till spring.
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Great looking tank,Martin. That should get you through two or three countrys. We'll need pics of the install.
:rotflmao:
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Great looking tank,Martin. That should get you through two or three countrys or about a 1/4 of one of our larger states. We'll need pics of the install.
Added some more info to your post...
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;D