Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: c1obrien on October 15, 2012, 09:30:29 PM
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I drive an '09 Connie to work every day and I pass by another guy on a newer Connie going in the opposite direction every day. I notice that both of his headlights are illuminated, while only my right one (as I sit on the bike) lights up. Three possibilities come to mind: 1.) Both lights light up on the newer models, but not the older ones. 2.) He's riding with his brights on (I doubt this). 3.) Something's messed up with my headlights.
Somebody tell me what's going on!
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Not a dumb question. I ride an 08, should not be any different than your bike. As you can see from my avatar, both lights should be on. This is true for high or low beam. You may have a burned out low beam on one side. If it's not just the bulb you will need to check the rest of the electrical feed for that low beam. Let us know how it goes.
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I replaced the low beam (right side as I sit on the bike) last summer. Maybe they gave me the wrong kind of bulb. It sounds like both bulbs have high and low beams. Is that right?
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I replaced the low beam (right side as I sit on the bike) last summer. Maybe they gave me the wrong kind of bulb. It sounds like both bulbs have high and low beams. Is that right?
Yes....That is correct c1obrien....The bulbs are H-4 three connector blades
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Replace both bulbs this time. Headlights should always be replaced in pairs.
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Replace both bulbs this time. Headlights should always be replaced in pairs.
+1 Then keep the old good bulb as a spare.
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I've stopped doing that. By the time I get another failure I've forgotten if it's good or I just didn't throw away the bad one... I've got CRS.
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I've stopped doing that. By the time I get another failure I've forgotten if it's good or I just didn't throw away the bad one... I've got CRS.
Me too on the CRS but I combine that with OCD and write the bulb change down in my lil notebook that I keep on the bike. 8)
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I'd lose the notebook.. :-[
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I'd lose the notebook.. :-[
Just don't lose the Bike ...
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Good advice- I always replace all the lights everywhere around the house when one burns out too.
:o
Brian
Replace both bulbs this time. Headlights should always be replaced in pairs.
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Right....
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Much appreciated guys. I'll replace both bulbs today.
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Don't forget never to touch the bulb itself. The slight amount of oil left from you finger print will cause uneven heat on the glass and to burn out much sooner.
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I've stopped doing that. By the time I get another failure I've forgotten if it's good or I just didn't throw away the bad one... I've got CRS.
CRS= Concours Riders Syndrome?
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CRS= Concours Riders Syndrome?
Can't Remember Sh*t
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Just a note on the outcome:
I replaced only the left-hand, high beam bulb, and now it comes on all the time like the other. Problem solved! I decided not to replace the low beam bulb because it is less than 90 days old. Not sure I understand how only the low beam part of that bulb was burned out while the high beam part was OK. But If I knew everything, I could fathom KIPASS.
Thanks again!
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Just a note on the outcome:
I replaced only the left-hand, high beam bulb, and now it comes on all the time like the other. Problem solved! I decided not to replace the low beam bulb because it is less than 90 days old.
There is no "high beam" or "low beam" bulb. Both bulbs are both.
Not sure I understand how only the low beam part of that bulb was burned out while the high beam part was OK. But If I knew everything, I could fathom KIPASS.
Because each bulb is both. There are two filaments in each. One filament can burn out and the other still work fine.
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There is no "high beam" or "low beam" bulb. Both bulbs are both.
Because each bulb is both. There are two filaments in each. One filament can burn out and the other still work fine.
What Max said, two dual filament bulbs are used.
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So what makes them "high" and "low" beams is just a matter of position?
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I can feel my brane starting to hurt...
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So what makes them "high" and "low" beams is just a matter of position?
It mostly depends on how much they've had to drink rather than position.
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I knew this was going to happen. Time for a refill... Brane hurts...
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Well assuming this is a serious question....
The H4 lamps in a C-14 headlight have two filaments, one used for high beam and one used for low beam. Both headlights are used for both high and low beam.
The low beam has a shield under the filament so that the only light that can come out of the bulb goes up and is reflected down. The low beam produces a light beam that only shines down below the light and forward, hence the term 'low beam'. This prevents blinding other drivers in oncoming traffic.
The front of the lamp is painted black so there is no forward light coming out of the bulb no matter which filament is used.
When you switch to high beams, the low beam filament goes out and the high beam filament illuminates. There is no shield around that filament (high beam) so the light is scattered all around the reflector and then forward but there is no cut off line and the light shines both above as well as below the headlight itself.
It is possible for either or both filaments to fail in either or both lights; more than one filament will not usually fail at the same time but sometimes a rider is not aware that one filament has failed and so it is not noticed until the 'other' filament fails also and the motorcycle has no high or low beams, depending on which filaments have failed.
There is a slight overlap on the low / high beam switch when both filaments are on at the same time; if you find that spot and hold the switch there (or use the Flash To Pass switch) you will notice that there is a lot of light being produced- that is because both sets of filaments are on at the same time and the lights are using at least double the power they normally would. They also produce a lot of heat so it is not really desirable to ride with the lights used in that way.
Brian
So what makes them "high" and "low" beams is just a matter of position?
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The low beam has a shield under the filament so that the only light that can come out of the bulb goes up and is reflected down. The low beam produces a light beam that only shines down below the light and forward, hence the term 'low beam'. This prevents blinding other drivers in oncoming traffic.
[...]
When you switch to high beams, the low beam filament goes out and the high beam filament illuminates. There is no shield around that filament (high beam) so the light is scattered all around the reflector and then forward but there is no cut off line and the light shines both above as well as below the headlight itself.
While what you say is accurate, it does not take into account what is really causing the "high beam". It is not the direction of the light (up or down or both) (which is what I used to think). It is the exact angular position of the filament relative to the reflector. The high and low beam filament are separated by about 1cm (just an estimate) on center. The reflectors have dual focal points- one for the low beam filament position and one for the high.
This is why when using HID lights, you still have high and low beam patterns by simply moving the single "filament" (bright spot) HID bulb in/out to the two different focal points... With the HID conversion, the bottom half of the reflector is never used, only the top half is used.
Of course, this creates an interesting question that I cannot answer- WHY is it set up that way with the typical HID conversion (only using the top half), and WHAT are we losing by not utilizing the lower half of the reflector when in high beam mode?
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How's your brane now Jim?
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The position of the switch.
So what makes them "high" and "low" beams is just a matter of position?
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The position of the switch.
ding ding ding. We have a winner!
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My brane feels better now. I knew it had something to do with the switch.
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The big difference between high beam and low beam on a stock H4 is that pan shaped shield under the low beam filament. It is very easy to test- simply put the lamp in the housing upside down; it will go although it will not seat fully. Look at the light pattern and you will find there is no cut- off and lots of light above where the cut- off line would be. The position of the filament (fore / aft) causes the beam to be broader or narrower, mostly top- to- bottom, which is why high beams when using an HID setup are on the thin side, again speaking of the beam's top- to- bottom shape.
The lower portion of the reflector is shaped to spread the beam differently than the upper portion; the lower portion spreads the beam out and more up/ down then the top portion. If the light source (filament or arc) is exposed to the lower reflector housing, you will generate a high beam shape no matter where (within reason) it is placed. So the reflectors on the C-14 generate a true high beam using the stock H4 lamps but only generate a quasi- low high (fixed original error) beam, although focused to a higher point (making it appear to be 'high') when using HIDs.
Brian
While what you say is accurate, it does not take into account what is really causing the "high beam". It is not the direction of the light (up or down or both) (which is what I used to think). It is the exact angular position of the filament relative to the reflector. The high and low beam filament are separated by about 1cm (just an estimate) on center. The reflectors have dual focal points- one for the low beam filament position and one for the high.
This is why when using HID lights, you still have high and low beam patterns by simply moving the single "filament" (bright spot) HID bulb in/out to the two different focal points... With the HID conversion, the bottom half of the reflector is never used, only the top half is used.
Of course, this creates an interesting question that I cannot answer- WHY is it set up that way with the typical HID conversion (only using the top half), and WHAT are we losing by not utilizing the lower half of the reflector when in high beam mode?
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Maybe I'm a geek, but I love this conversation. I want to understand as much as I can about the bike. You guys are great.
chip
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We have very knowledgeable members on this board that have loads of experience with this bike. And it's a fun place to be if you have a sense of humor about you.
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It is a fun place to be even when the occasional poster does not have a sense of humor too- at least for the rest of us. The only thing better than a 'straight man' is a cranky person playing the unwitting 'straight man'.
;D ;D
Brian
<snip>
And it's a fun place to be if you have a sense of humor about you.
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We have very knowledgeable members on this board that have loads of experience with this bike.
I sure wish one of them "Knowledgable" ones would show up ;)
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Yeah, some of us get caught in the smaller details but that is what makes forums like this great- people who are not interested can just skip over these threads. I also find it to be an interesting subject with a lot of science and human effort put into it (vehicle lighting) to get us where we are today with was is really very good vehicle lighting.
Somewhat off topic: last night I was in Homely Despot and saw something that I found amazing- Ryobi has an HID "flashlight" (those two words just do not go together) for sale for something like $60 (not including the battery). Amazing- the entire light system including the ballast, the burner (bulb), a reflector along with a housing and switch all for $60. And it is the full power, 35 watt, 3,000 lumen of retina scortching HID too, not some puny 'little brother' types like the medical industry uses (and you cannot even believe where they shine those lights but that is a different subject....) Finally a flashlight that we do not have to polish the lens cover on to use- or probably even take the lens cover off. :D Not many years ago those lights were thousands of dollars and only available as options on Mercedes Benz autos- now they are in the local hardware store as 'flashlights'. Back on topic (sorta'), I betcha' 4 of those things up front of a C-14 would provide a fantastic 'bang for the buck' lighting system if you could get by the cheap plastic housing and the flashy colors of the Ryobi product.
Brian
Maybe I'm a geek, but I love this conversation. I want to understand as much as I can about the bike. You guys are great.
chip
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And there we have it- some of 'dat 'dare humor coupled with an unwitting straight man....
<ROFLMFO three times>
Brian
I sure wish one of them "Knowledgable" ones would show up ;)
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And there we have it- some of 'dat 'dare humor coupled with an unwitting straight man....
<ROFLMFO three times>
Brian
Whatcha saying? No sane, knowledgeable person would try what we tried and I aint ever been accused of being unwitting ;D I am straight tho ;)
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Somewhat off topic: last night I was in Homely Despot and saw something that I found amazing- Ryobi has an HID "flashlight" (those two words just do not go together) for sale for something like $60 (not including the battery). Amazing- the entire light system including the ballast, the burner (bulb), a reflector along with a housing and switch all for $60. And it is the full power, 35 watt, 3,000 lumen of retina scortching HID too, not some puny 'little brother' types like the medical industry uses (and you cannot even believe where they shine those lights but that is a different subject....) Finally a flashlight that we do not have to polish the lens cover on to use- or probably even take the lens cover off. :D Not many years ago those lights were thousands of dollars and only available as options on Mercedes Benz autos- now they are in the local hardware store as 'flashlights'. Back on topic (sorta'), I betcha' 4 of those things up front of a C-14 would provide a fantastic 'bang for the buck' lighting system if you could get by the cheap plastic housing and the flashy colors of the Ryobi product.
Brian
Does it have a high and low beam?
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Yes and it is controlled by an electro-mechanical mechanism called 'wristus angulus', or something close to that, in Latin.
Brian
Does it have a high and low beam?
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Yes and it is controlled by an electro-mechanical mechanism called 'wristus angulus', or something close to that, in Latin.
Brian
Google Translate makes that 'angle of the dangle'.
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The lower portion of the reflector is shaped to spread the beam differently than the upper portion; the lower portion spreads the beam out and more up/ down then the top portion. If the light source (filament or arc) is exposed to the lower reflector housing, you will generate a high beam shape no matter where (within reason) it is placed. So the reflectors on the C-14 generate a true high beam using the stock H4 lamps but only generate a quasi- low beam, although focused to a higher point (making it appear to be 'high') when using HIDs.
Then we SHOULD be upset with the HID kits, afterall (see, I KNEW I should be upset about something)...
But I think you meant to say a quasi-high beam when using HID: The low beam should be the same on both- same filament position, and using only the upper half of the reflector.
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Yep, I meant to say high beam and fixed the original post- thanks for pointing that out.
Brian
Then we SHOULD be upset with the HID kits, afterall (see, I KNEW I should be upset about something)...
But I think you meant to say a quasi-high beam when using HID: The low beam should be the same on both- same filament position, and using only the upper half of the reflector.
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This brings up another dumb question!
I ride in the dark a lot (some say 24/7) especially over the next several months. What's the best way to add lights (now that I'm getting the most out of my headlights) without becoming a hazard to oncoming drivers?
chip
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This brings up another dumb question!
I ride in the dark a lot (some say 24/7) especially over the next several months. What's the best way to add lights (now that I'm getting the most out of my headlights) without becoming a hazard to oncoming drivers?
You can add powerful LED "driving lights" (many are like narrow flood lights) and then connect them to the high beam circuit with a relay. Then they will come on only with high beams (which should only be used at night and with no other cars around).
Alternatively, a really fancy setup would have a dimmer that cuts their brightness down to 15-20% or less when on low beam and jump them to 100% on high beam. That is a bit more complex with LED, since they don't dim with a regular dimmer but require a special LED dimmer.
You can't really add much more light than dual HID on low beam without blinding others, even with pretty decent aim. And even if you did, it will start causing blinding to yourself... when the road close to you (the only safe place to add more light on low beam) starts getting really bright, it will start to reduce your ability to see things further away (just the way the eyes work).
When using high beams, there really is no limit to how useful more light can be- the more the better, until you accidentally leave them on with cars around, which could be VERY bad if you pumped it up a lot. There are legal limits to how much light can be projected on both high and low beam, but anything you do (including adding HID) is already illegal and pushed you over the limit too...
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Thanks, Maxtog.
Guess I'll just hang back getting the most out of what I've got. I would rather not add additional lighting if it meant endangering oncoming drivers. Though it pains me to say it, I guess I'll just have to slow down in the dark.
chip
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Thanks, Maxtog.
Guess I'll just hang back getting the most out of what I've got. I would rather not add additional lighting if it meant endangering oncoming drivers. Though it pains me to say it, I guess I'll just have to slow down in the dark.
Not sure how old you are, I am 43... seems like the old saying about everything going down hill is true. I have noticed my night vision is not as good as it used to be. Kind of a dual-edged sword; lights are getting brighter and the ever increasing numbers of vehicles with improperly adjusted/ aligned and/or dirty/UV-destroyed headlights makes it that much worse.
My best friend, who is only 52, has such bad night vision now, he barely wants to drive (a car) at all at night. When he got married 4 years ago, he also let his bike rot (it is unlicensed and falling apart; now I just ride alone) :(
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No need doing that Maxdog... PM me and we'll see if we can't get together at some
pint er point.
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No need doing that Maxdog... PM me and we'll see if we can't get together at some pint er point.
LOL- We are still waiting for that group windshield get-together!
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I think you two guys are having a miss- communication: Max said you could really not do better than using a HI / LO HID setup, not that you could not improve the stock lights. As I understand it, you have stock H4 lamps now, correct? If so, you can triple (really triple, not advertising triple which is about 10% more) just by going to HIDs and they are not too hard onto oncoming traffic. Max and I both run HIDs successfully (at least it seems we both think we are successful).
Swapping the stock H4 lamps (tungsten or halogen, both terms are correct) for HIDs will make an amazing difference in your night safety and visibility (the rider's ability to see things downrange, not the ability of others to see you). Kits are available for about $65 or so and there is no better 'bang for the buck' in motorcycle farkling that I know of. The kits are fairly easy to install although not as easy as swapping stock headlight bulbs.
Retrofitting a C-14 with HIDs is not perfect but it is reasonable and responsible in my opinion and will absolutely put out far more light- HIDs in the 4,100 K range will produce about 3,100 to 3,200 lumens while H4 produce 1,000 lumens. And all of those plus series lamps (+80, +90 and now +100) do produce more light but only about 10% of what the numbers would lead you to believe (a +90 lamp actually produces around 9% more actual light output).
Brian
Thanks, Maxtog.
Guess I'll just hang back getting the most out of what I've got. I would rather not add additional lighting if it meant endangering oncoming drivers. Though it pains me to say it, I guess I'll just have to slow down in the dark.
chip
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Yeah, I know...
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I think you two guys are having a miss- communication: Max said you could really not do better than using a HI / LO HID setup, not that you could not improve the stock lights. As I understand it, you have stock H4 lamps now, correct?
Oh, for some reason I was thinking he already performed the HID conversion and wanted even more on low beam. My bad, I was mixing the two threads together :o
. And all of those plus series lamps (+80, +90 and now +100) do produce more light but only about 10% of what the numbers would lead you to believe (a +90 lamp actually produces around 9% more actual light output).
+1
The "90% brighter!!!!" crap advertising on halogen bulb replacements is just that- marketing crap. 10% max additional seems about right.
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Yeah, I know...
?
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Yeah, I posted after someone else and didn't re-do it. I'm crazy sometimes. Ask anyone. And if this explanation confuses you more then I've done my job to best of my ability. As my wife says, I'm the best at being me. ;)
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Yeah, I posted after someone else and didn't re-do it. I'm crazy sometimes. Ask anyone. And if this explanation confuses you more then I've done my job to best of my ability. As my wife says, I'm the best at being me. ;)
And you're doing a fine job of it Jim!
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Don't exactly remember what I'm running now, but they're not stock. I replaced all bulbs with the brightest PIAAs I could get. I ride a lot at night on 2-lane county highways where there are no street lights, and I live where it rains 9-months of the year. I want as much light as I can reasonably get without blinding anyone.
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Then HIDs are the probably the best option. They simply produce more light than (I think) any available tungsten lighting including 100 watt halogens and still have a crisp enough cut- off line (where the low beam 'cuts off' or stops putting out much light) to be reasonable to oncoming traffic. The C-14 housings make a good transition to HID replacements- I would rate them an 8.5 or maybe even a 9.0 out of 10 on a light quality scale. As far as actual light output, they are still 'top dog' in the lighting world and are in a class by themselves even when compared to any other form of light producer including the latest, greatest L.E.D. products.
Look up a bi-xenon, H4 kit from someone. A&R out of Texas has been pretty popular with C-14 owners and DDM Tuning out of California has about the best prices around. An entire HID 'kit' is about $65 or so and fairly easy to install as long as you are comfortable running a cable (provided) to the terminals of the battery.
Brian
Don't exactly remember what I'm running now, but they're not stock. I replaced all bulbs with the brightest PIAAs I could get. I ride a lot at night on 2-lane county highways where there are no street lights, and I live where it rains 9-months of the year. I want as much light as I can reasonably get without blinding anyone.
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Thanks, Brian. I'll check it out. Sounds like a lot of peace of mind for $65.
chip
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I too will be looking at the HID kits as the PIAA's and such are in the 45 buck range for 2. GIven the life of the HID's there is a lot of savings in the long run it would seem. Left home at 7 am in complete darkness. Idiot legislation in Indiana should have left us alone with DST....or at least put us on with CHicago instead of BOston. Wrong end of the time zone for riding to work.