Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Glennn on September 26, 2012, 06:37:44 PM
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Morning Folks,
So I read a number of threads about peg feelers scraping and even going so far as scraping hardware such as lower farings.
I consider myself a moderate to advanced experienced rider, more than 20 years on bikes and not afraid of getting amongst the twisty stuff.
Thing is, no matter how low I get in a corner I don't scrape the pegs. Looking at the chicken lines on the tyres if I had to go any lower, especially in left handers, I am sure I would run out of rubber. If anything I would rather the pegs scrape as that early warning system.
Currently stock tyres at 7,300kms (PR3s going on in a couple of weeks though), I'm about 180lbs, think the rear suspension is turned in about x10.
Thoughts, or is this typical?
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I like a spirited ride as well as the next guy but if I'm scraping hard parts I'm doing something wrong. And not being RickyRacer, me getting a knee down is a bad thing. 8)
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Definitly don't want to scrape hard parts :)
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I too have yet to scrape more than pegs on the Connie in 13,000 miles. I attribute it to the fact that I get off the side of the bike in tight curves a bit more than those who hang in the saddle given the same curve. That is my excuse.
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you"ll love the PR3"s......right to the edge!! :stirpot: :chugbeer:
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Given you're on the stock tires, it's no surprise you've never scraped anything. I didn't either. However, once I put some real tires on the bike, that changed. My right peg has run out of feeler, and has started chewing on the peg itself. Left peg isn't far behind.
After you put the PR3s on it and get used to them, come back and let us know how it goes. ;)
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You can contact the feelers and not run out of rubber. I don't lean to the point of scraping hard parts, but I do occasionally scrape the pegs. There is probably about an eight of an inch of chicken strips still left, and a bit more on the front. I run PR2's, with 42 pounds front and rear.
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Given you're on the stock tires, it's no surprise you've never scraped anything. I didn't either. However, once I put some real tires on the bike, that changed. My right peg has run out of feeler, and has started chewing on the peg itself. Left peg isn't far behind.
After you put the PR3s on it and get used to them, come back and let us know how it goes. ;)
Isn't that cause your running Buell pegs Rob? I never scraped my stock pegs, but after I put on Buell pegs I can scrape them making a sharp cut leaving a stop sign.
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Isn't that cause your running Buell pegs Rob? I never scraped my stock pegs, but after I put on Buell pegs I can scrape them making a sharp cut leaving a stop sign.
I am running the Buell pegs, but if you measure the clearance of the stock pegs and the Buell pegs, the point of contact is the same (or slightly better with the Buell pegs). Plus, after I've ground off most of the feelers, I should have more clearance than stock.
I'm currently running a 180/55, but I scraped them even with the 190/50. The next tire (already on hand) will be a 190/55. I'm hoping it doesn't make the bike too tall for me. With the 180/55, I'm running out of rubber at the edge on the rear (nearest the sidewall). There are no chicken strips on the rear, what so ever. I've had the tire step out on me a couple times on clean dry pavement, which I suspect was due to running out of contact patch. The front is stock size, and still has 1/8" or so of chicken strips showing.
Tom, now that you are getting more comfortable on the bike, you should try swapping back to the stock pegs as a test, and see if you scrape them.
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Sounds like you are probably positioning your body well. Often it seems folks think dragging hard parts is a sign of proficiency, but i think it's compensation for poor use of the body.
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Sounds like you are probably positioning your body well. Often it seems folks think dragging hard parts is a sign of proficiency, but i think it's compensation for poor use of the body.
In my case it's usually from going a little too hot through the corners. ;)
I try not to scrape anything, but I also try to push it to the edge. However, to find the edge requires scraping from time to time. Then there's always the unexpected bump in the middle of the corner.
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Have never dragged pegs on the C14, never seem to have a problem in the twisty bits either. Maybe body position and higher preload settings help?
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Tom, now that you are getting more comfortable on the bike, you should try swapping back to the stock pegs as a test, and see if you scrape them.
That sounds like a good reason to ride tomorrow, I am gonna try that. Maybe I can get Jay to head out your way with me and we could go for a rip. I'll send you a PM if I can get something organized for tomorrow.
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That sounds like a good reason to ride tomorrow, I am gonna try that. Maybe I can get Jay to head out your way with me and we could go for a rip. I'll send you a PM if I can get something organized for tomorrow.
Sweet! Let me know, I just fueled up on my way home tonight. I need to get rid of some of that pesky excess rubber on the sides of my tires, so they'll match the centers. ;)
I've got lots of twisty roads out here you guys have probably never seen too.
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Sounds like you are probably positioning your body well. Often it seems folks think dragging hard parts is a sign of proficiency, but i think it's compensation for poor use of the body.
To put it nicer, differant riding styles/positioning and entry speed will result in a differant lean angle and use of the bikes suspension. The only time I ever drug a peg? In a parking lot doing the Military Sportbike Class. Combination of bad form and an abrupt roll off which allows the suspension to colapse, sounds like something Rob may be experiencing (abrupt roll off). Entry speed, entry point, and body position (no knees please). FWIW, I've seen the tater launcher scraped at Pacific Raceways. He got in too fast, early, and shoulders were over the bike, he absolutely chopped the throttle. He thought it was cool when he saw the scrape, then I told him when he did it, changed his tune and he payed a little closer attention to the lessons/drills being run.
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I don't know why people think that body position keeps you from dragging anything. Even if you are hanging off you can still scrape stuff. It's all a matter of how close to the limit folks want to lean the bike over, regardless of body positioning.
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How much faster than the speed limit are you all going that you scrape parts on the bike? The only time I've ever scraped anything is when I would take a left turn from a side street onto an off camber roadway.
I have taken 45 mph curves at 65 mph and no scraping. So, are you all scraping on 25 mph curves at ? mph?
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I don't know why people think that body position keeps you from dragging anything. Even if you are hanging off you can still scrape stuff. It's all a matter of how close to the limit folks want to lean the bike over, regardless of body positioning.
Because body position does change the angle that the bike leans to navigate a curve at a given speed.
There are a lot of good books out there that explain this.
If you were to keep your body perpendicular to the road surface you would have to lean the bike further to navigate a curve at a certain speed than if you lean your body out on the side of the bike that is in the direction of the curve.
If you look at your windscreen as a solid door instead of a window. When taking a right curve you want to look around the right side of that door. When taking a left curve you want to look around the left side of that door.
"Total Control" by Lee Parks is a great read. As well as "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough.
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I scraped a peg for the 1st time last weekend. One of those 25mph curves, went in around 50 and the curve kept closing on me, dragged my boot and the peg for a brief second. I attribute it to incorrect body position. I did the dragon and a lot of the roads in that area at a spirited pace and never dragged anything, so this was a bit of a surprise.
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Because body position does change the angle that the bike leans to navigate a curve at a given speed.
There are a lot of good books out there that explain this.
If you were to keep your body perpendicular to the road surface you would have to lean the bike further to navigate a curve at a certain speed than if you lean your body out on the side of the bike that is in the direction of the curve.
If you look at your windscreen as a solid door instead of a window. When taking a right curve you want to look around the right side of that door. When taking a left curve you want to look around the left side of that door.
"Total Control" by Lee Parks is a great read. As well as "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough.
Thanks......you beat me to it. 8)
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Wow, sure is a lot of interest in this. Okay, I'll play. I always lean into the curve relative to the bike, but I don't move off the seat. I also keep my legs tucked against the bodywork. After all, I'm just riding for fun, not competition.
Typically, if I do drag a peg, it's only when I'm more than double the suggested corner speed, and almost always, these corners are marked in the 15 to 25 range. This is on several specific roads that I'm very familiar with, that have no driveways along the twisty sections, and with the speed of the road marked at 45MPH or above.
When it comes to big sweepers, the only time I've ever touched the toe of my boot (point of first contact, and my initial "corner feeler"), or scraped a peg, is if there were something to bounce the suspension (i.e. bump) in the middle of the corner, and of course, going fast. Also, I've been caught by the occasional sweeper that tightened up on the exit, causing me to cut the throttle enough to result in the bike leaning in to the point of contact.
A friend of mine once said, "anyone can go fast in a straight line". Given that this bike does that in abundance, I use the straight sections to reduce speed from the corners, and if I'm riding with someone, to wait for them to catch up.
I'm certainly not a track trained expert / professional rider, but do like to practice on several specific roads I do along my commute.
Also, I would challenge anyone to do 45MPH repeatedly through tight 20MPH corners, and NOT drag something. Good luck. ;)
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http://contour.com/videos/watch/smoked-by-nick-and-tamela-i-suck (http://contour.com/videos/watch/smoked-by-nick-and-tamela-i-suck)
Watch the other vids as well. What do I win?
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http://contour.com/videos/watch/smoked-by-nick-and-tamela-i-suck (http://contour.com/videos/watch/smoked-by-nick-and-tamela-i-suck)
Watch the other vids as well. What do I win?
I saw that video when you originally posted it. Those corners aren't as tight as I'm referring to, and you didn't even stay in your own lane. ;) Really Chet, we'll have to work on your "street riding".
Still, your consolation prize is you get to ride down to PDX, and take a personal tour of some of our great twisty back roads! :) Plus, as an added bonus, you get to critique my riding in person. ;D
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I saw that video when you originally posted it. Those corners aren't as tight as I'm referring to, and you didn't even stay in your own lane. ;) Really Chet, we'll have to work on your "street riding".
Still, your consolation prize is you get to ride down to PDX, and take a personal tour of some of our great twisty back roads! :) Plus, as an added bonus, you get to critique my riding in person. ;D
That sounds like a prize I can't refuse ;D Maryhill AM session was one way, made things awesome!!
FWIW, them there are some tight corners, I'd bet a couple would be posted as 10 MPH. I'm teaching next weekend or I'd see about heading that way, I have some new Angels all mounted up and they do need to be scrubbed in, sure would like to see some new roads 8)
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Because body position does change the angle that the bike leans to navigate a curve at a given speed.
There are a lot of good books out there that explain this.
If you were to keep your body perpendicular to the road surface you would have to lean the bike further to navigate a curve at a certain speed than if you lean your body out on the side of the bike that is in the direction of the curve.
If you look at your windscreen as a solid door instead of a window. When taking a right curve you want to look around the right side of that door. When taking a left curve you want to look around the left side of that door.
"Total Control" by Lee Parks is a great read. As well as "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough.
I finished in the top three in the country in the AMA Amateur points standings in 1982 in three different classes of road racing. I don't mean to sound cocky or like I know it all - I'm sure I don't. But did I mention that I finished in the top three in the country......
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Wow, sure is a lot of interest in this. Okay, I'll play. I always lean into the curve relative to the bike, but I don't move off the seat. I also keep my legs tucked against the bodywork. After all, I'm just riding for fun, not competition.
Typically, if I do drag a peg, it's only when I'm more than double the suggested corner speed, and almost always, these corners are marked in the 15 to 25 range. This is on several specific roads that I'm very familiar with, that have no driveways along the twisty sections, and with the speed of the road marked at 45MPH or above.
When it comes to big sweepers, the only time I've ever touched the toe of my boot (point of first contact, and my initial "corner feeler"), or scraped a peg, is if there were something to bounce the suspension (i.e. bump) in the middle of the corner, and of course, going fast. Also, I've been caught by the occasional sweeper that tightened up on the exit, causing me to cut the throttle enough to result in the bike leaning in to the point of contact.
A friend of mine once said, "anyone can go fast in a straight line". Given that this bike does that in abundance, I use the straight sections to reduce speed from the corners, and if I'm riding with someone, to wait for them to catch up.
I'm certainly not a track trained expert / professional rider, but do like to practice on several specific roads I do along my commute.
Also, I would challenge anyone to do 45MPH repeatedly through tight 20MPH corners, and NOT drag something. Good luck. ;)
I'm with you. Good post.
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After taking the Total Control class with Lee Parks I realized that dropping your knee and body off the bike was so that the bike bike could stay more upright and improve traction and so that you could turn the bar into the turn and make it otherwise sharper.
When you scrape parts it indicates you are only using the difference in circumference of the tire to navigate the turn and that actually limits your control options.
The bike is most stable when upright isn't it?
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One aspect of this discussion missing is suspension. If the rear is too soft as in not enough pre-load, then its easy to touch down with the pegs regardless of body position. This became evident during my last trackday while playing with my suspension.
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One aspect of this discussion missing is suspension. If the rear is too soft as in not enough pre-load, then its easy to touch down with the pegs regardless of body position. This became evident during my last trackday while playing with my suspension.
and rebound damping to keep the tires in contact with the pavement.
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THis has turned into a pretty good thread. As I was cruising around the "other guys board" over on BMW sport touring I came across a few really nice threads on riding and devoured them. First thread got interesting when HOugh himself popped in and started commenting
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=9&Number=156936&Searchpage=3&Main=16053&Words=%2BHough+%2BParks&topic=0&Search=true#Post156936 (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=9&Number=156936&Searchpage=3&Main=16053&Words=%2BHough+%2BParks&topic=0&Search=true#Post156936) is a thread talking HOugh vs Parks which got my interest flowing and the other thread that had links to riding subjects in the first post became an excellent resourcde I refer to often when returning from rides and looking back on the day as I make a journal entry and recall something I need to refer to. http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=48789#Post48789 (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=48789#Post48789)
It has a variety of subjects linked regarding corner entry, being smooth, exits, inattention etc.