Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Howard kelly on September 22, 2012, 11:16:32 PM

Title: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Howard kelly on September 22, 2012, 11:16:32 PM
so i left my house and the bike felt funny...wasnt sure what i felt.  its 7 blocks to the freeway from my driveway, hot the freeway and it felt ok.  cruising at 80, felt a need to pass someone and the bike chugged and didnt accelerat smoothly.  downshifted a few gears and it went fast--but not as fast as normal.  something is wrong.  got where i needed to go and talked to a friend.  he suggest a plug had gone bad and it made sense...like i was running on three cylinders and and running rough.  left to go home, the bike felt the same, rough.  i made a plan to replace the plugs. (22000 on the bike btw)

got home and smelled something funny, looked in the engine compartment, everything seemed ok, looked at the exhaust--actually in it--glowing orange.  grabbed my heat temp gun and saw 447 on the black muffler portion and 190 on the head pipe coming in. a close look and the black on the muffler is cracking and peeling--  makes me think the cat is clogged....thoughts?
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: C1xRider on September 23, 2012, 12:50:52 AM
Could still be a bad spark plug, or anything else that causes too much raw fuel in the exhaust

All that unburned fuel will ignite in the cat, and make it get really, really hot.

At 24K miles, the plugs in mine looked clean, but the gap was out of spec (too wide).
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Howard kelly on September 23, 2012, 12:52:15 AM
agreed....changing plugs next weekend
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Conrad on September 23, 2012, 07:14:10 AM
You know that the cats are not in the muffler can right? They're right after the header.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Cuda on September 23, 2012, 07:40:40 AM
They are in the collector the large area where the four pipes come together.
very restrictive, for a motor that moves a lot of air at high RPMs .
I removed mine and wrapped the header and  collector  so my gas tank never gets warm anymore.
 I was going to drill them out with a long drill but they are VERY hard , so I had a welding shop cut it open , remove and weld back up.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: ZG on September 23, 2012, 09:02:26 AM
Is it the stock exhaust? If so, there could be a potato stuck in there...  :-\
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Rhino on September 23, 2012, 09:19:14 AM
Is it the stock exhaust? If so, there could be a potato stuck in there...  :-\

 :rotflmao: I mean literally  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Rhino on September 23, 2012, 09:21:08 AM
They are in the collector the large area where the four pipes come together.
very restrictive, for a motor that moves a lot of air at high RPMs .
I removed mine and wrapped the header and  collector  so my gas tank never gets warm anymore.
 I was going to drill them out with a long drill but they are VERY hard , so I had a welding shop cut it open , remove and weld back up.

Did you add a PCV or anything to change the fuel map? Just wondering if changing the exhaust flow changed how the engine runs.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Cuda on September 23, 2012, 02:25:32 PM
At first all I did was the ZX header and Two Brothers duals , I had to block off that grey tube from the intake  box  because it was really poping when down shifting,  I did not notice anything unusual . The only real difference was the front tire comming up higher in 1st to 2nd shifts ;)
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Howard kelly on September 25, 2012, 01:17:47 AM
You know that the cats are not in the muffler can right? They're right after the header.

Pretty sure there are two cats. One in the collector and a second in the muffler
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 25, 2012, 04:12:15 AM
According to my service manual, the cats are in the collector just before it goes into the muffler page 5-6. 

Manifold - Honeycomb type catalyst without o2 sensor P/No. 39178-0083 Mark:  KHI M 114

Muffler body - Non Catalyst P/No. 18091-0470 Mark:  KHI K 517 EPA Noise Emission Control Information

This is corroborated in the 2008 Design Factoid

http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf (http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf)

Which is also linked to in our C14 Interesting Facts part 1

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=93.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=93.0)

Which might not be a bad idea to review on occasion.



Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Conrad on September 25, 2012, 04:46:13 AM
Pretty sure there are two cats. One in the collector and a second in the muffler

Sorry but you're wrong Howard. Feel free to ask anyone who has shortened their bazooka or see Jim's post above.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Son of Pappy on September 25, 2012, 07:34:06 AM
Definately no cats in the 'zooka.  Theey are stacked in the collector.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on September 25, 2012, 02:33:12 PM
Pretty sure there are two cats. One in the collector and a second in the muffler

If your cat got into the muffler then that would explain the loss of performance.  Your wife probably won't be very happy with you either.




(http://rcdas.org/home/images/stories/articles/newsreleases/2011/11-1224a/cat-in-pipe-stuck.jpg)
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 25, 2012, 03:03:33 PM
That darn cat!
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Conrad on September 25, 2012, 03:10:24 PM
If your cat got into the muffler then that would explain the loss of performance.  Your wife probably won't be very happy with you either.




(http://rcdas.org/home/images/stories/articles/newsreleases/2011/11-1224a/cat-in-pipe-stuck.jpg)

Cat in a hot tin pipe, that's not good for anyone, specially the cat.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: ZG on September 25, 2012, 04:05:17 PM
If your cat got into the muffler then that would explain the loss of performance.  Your wife probably won't be very happy with you either.




(http://rcdas.org/home/images/stories/articles/newsreleases/2011/11-1224a/cat-in-pipe-stuck.jpg)

Cat in a hot tin pipe, that's not good for anyone, specially the cat.

Pussy in a can?  :-\ :-X
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 25, 2012, 04:45:46 PM
And so it begins....
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: ZG on September 25, 2012, 05:01:45 PM
And so it begins....

(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/hiding.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/swiqe.gif)
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: gPink on September 25, 2012, 05:38:27 PM
That looks like some smokin hot pussy.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Xelvic on September 25, 2012, 06:54:21 PM
Ahhhhhh what a cute little pussy. I had a girlfriend with a pussy like that,  but I dumped her for a girl with a different pussy. It was a cool pussy too... it would come when I called it!!  ;D
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: gPink on September 25, 2012, 07:29:14 PM
longhair or shorthair? I kind of like hairless, tattooed pussy.







.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Dalroo on September 25, 2012, 08:05:53 PM
Not to be a killjoy, but back on  topic, did OP figure this out? How long had the bike sat? Could some critter have gotten in and nested - seriously...................might explain the blocked airflow and burning material. Mice and even birds can be pretty industrious and look for confined spaces to nest.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Howard kelly on October 07, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
Finally finished diagnosis...ok I have been busy.  The dead cylinder is from a failed stick coil.  My dealer says there IS a catalytic converter in the muffler and that is why it was glowing orange inside and baked the black finish off of it....unburnt fuel, cat, heat....do your own scientific explanation

Meeting with the dealer Tuesday to see about warranty covering this...I am 3 months over the 36 months, but only have 22000 miles....

Btw...getting to the plugs is a GIANT pain in the butt
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: C1xRider on October 07, 2012, 09:57:44 AM
Finally finished diagnosis...ok I have been busy.  The dead cylinder is from a failed stick coil.  My dealer says there IS a catalytic converter in the muffler and that is why it was glowing orange inside and baked the black finish off of it....unburnt fuel, cat, heat....do your own scientific explanation

Meeting with the dealer Tuesday to see about warranty covering this...I am 3 months over the 36 months, but only have 22000 miles....

Btw...getting to the plugs is a GIANT pain in the butt

Hmm, that's the first stick coil failure on a C14 I've read about.  Not that I've searched around for that failure, but following this board it's the first (for me).

I still don't see how your dealer can claim there's a cat in the muffler.  Several people have disassembled the muffler on the 08 & 09 to shorten them.  They're saying no to the cat (but then, everyone knows cats don't listen).
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 07, 2012, 10:04:36 AM
Interesting.   Every thing we've been told and seen for the US models indicates that there is no cat to be found in the exhaust bazooka.  I think your dealer is wrong in this regard but I can't get that orange glow explained unless there was unburned fuel doing something.  In looking at the business end of the bazooka, could it be possible that you were seeing the cat in the collector glowing?

Hmm, that's the first stick coil failure on a C14 I've read about.  Not that I've searched around for that failure, but following this board it's the first (for me).

I still don't see how your dealer can claim there's a cat in the muffler.  Several people have disassembled the muffler on the 08 & 09 to shorten them.  They're saying no to the cat (but then, everyone knows cats don't listen).


Or to herd, like forum members....
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: Howard kelly on October 07, 2012, 10:39:17 AM
I don't know about what was glowing, I was pretty freaked out at the time, but I think it would be hard for the inlet pipe to be 195 degrees and the canister 447 without something in there
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: ZG on October 07, 2012, 10:46:56 AM
That massive potato launcher is so freakin big there could be a herd of cats in there and nobody would ever know...  ;)
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: curly on October 07, 2012, 11:50:24 AM
Let's put this to rest. Your dealer is kooky. I've had the stock muffler apart and I have removed the cats from the collector. There are no cats in the bazooka furry or otherwise.
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 07, 2012, 12:36:55 PM
That's a relief..
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: JamminJere on October 07, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
I'll have to concur with concurly...

I was one of the first (if not the first) to gut the cat out of the mid pipe... and I've had my stock electrolux apart to see about shortening it... There is no catalytic converter in the muffler itself.

If the cat in your midpipe was blocked, the engine heat couldn't get thru it.. Your muffler could have never turned red. Probably the unburnt fuel from the dead cylinder was raising the temp of the exhaust itself. I would think the cat was clean now. Shouldn't occur again once your stick coil is replaced and you are up and running again.

Guys,

Our bikes are 5 years old now... Start looking for this kind of stuff (stick coils) and other parts on EBay...  I picked up a whole set of them a few years back for like 35 bucks off of a bike being parted out..  You just never know when you might need something like that, and you sure don't want to pay retail from a Kaw parts house for a new one

JJ
Title: Re: catalytic converter failure?
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 07, 2012, 02:21:10 PM
+1 to that idea!  Just bought some off ebay.  Thanks for the tip.  Not quite as low as yours but close enough...