Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: stevewfl on May 26, 2011, 11:05:20 AM
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When I start my bike, let it warm up, and use the clutch for the 1st or second time during the ride if feels like it grabs too soon (too close to grip still) as I let it out. Whats up with that? After I ride it and shift gears a couple of times its perfectly back to normal.
Mine Kawi is long overdue to break, and I'm asking because i have a cross country trip soon. If clutch needs attention I'd rather do it now that later.
Thanks in advance for input
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Steve I noticed the same with mine about 40k miles, finally went and changed my fluid and noticed a difference.
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I've noticed the same 'soft' clutch problem, but only when the bike is cold. I'm at 18k on the clock with regular oil changes and keep the other fluids topped and clean. -Same symptoms, clutch engages immediately when releasing it from the grip. I hope the problem doesn't get worse.
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Maybe time for new clutch plates and fluid. If it's bothering you, just do it so you can take your trip with a sound mind (or reasonable facsimile in your case).
If you're a chronic clutch abuser, then definitely do it.
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I've noticed the same 'soft' clutch problem, but only when the bike is cold. I'm at 18k on the clock with regular oil changes and keep the other fluids topped and clean. -Same symptoms, clutch engages immediately when releasing it from the grip. I hope the problem doesn't get worse.
Thanks for all your comments. If I knew mine would continue to do this "only when cold" I wouldn't worry. And I never put this many miles on a bike before, maybe it is really time for a fluid change? (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Mine does that but only when it is hot and has been sitting for a while but not long enough to cool down. When the bike is at running temp. or cold, the clutch engagement point is the same; when it is hot and has been sitting for a while, say 20 minutes, the clutch engagement point moves toward the handlebar quite a bit. The slave cylinder was replaced and it cured the problem for a while but it is back now (maybe 15K miles since the slave cylinder was replaced).
It seems very repeatable and <more or less> normal. I will change my clutch fluid and let it go at that unless or until there are other symptoms. The clutch itself works perfectly so it is nothing to worry about IMO, and there are 62K miles on my bike.
Brian
When I start my bike, let it warm up, and use the clutch for the 1st or second time during the ride if feels like it grabs too soon (too close to grip still) as I let it out. Whats up with that? After I ride it and shift gears a couple of times its perfectly back to normal.
Mine Kawi is long overdue to break, and I'm asking because i have a cross country trip soon. If clutch needs attention I'd rather do it now that later.
Thanks in advance for input
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Mine just has a little clunk (and it jerks a little) when I put it into first gear when it is cold. I figured it was normal, it isn't nearly as bad as my M109R. Any gearbox is better than that one, it was very clunky especially going into second.
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Mine has not changed at all since new. I have over 22,000 miles on it in about 17 months now. The engagement has always been almost all the way "out" in the clutch travel (away from the grip).
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Someone way back had the same issue and tore the system apart trying to fix it. Don't think anything was found. TJ maybe???
Mine will do the same thing ,come out mostly in the morning and it feels like no clutch kinda a surprise at 4:00am . part way to work and it's ok.
Doesn't happen consistently maybe 2 or 3 times a month and then not for 2 or 3 months. :banghead:
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Mine started doing this just the other day. Engagement started significantly closer to the grip. Turned out I had moved the adjustment lever on my knock off Pazzo's by accident when I was washing my bike. :D
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mine also just started doing this. Hoping to get the fluid changed out ASAP and hopefully that will take care of it. She just tripped 41k.
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Yeah, that was me. The 'cure' was a new slave cylinder assembly (under warranty). Tom Hess had the same problem shortly afterward but I don't remember what the cure was on his bike.
The change on my bike is very consistent and predictable- it only does it when it has been sitting for something like 20 minutes to a couple of hours after being up to full operating temperature. If allowed to cool all the way back down (overnight), the clutch engagement point is in the normal place, close to fully released.
Brian
Someone way back had the same issue and tore the system apart trying to fix it. Don't think anything was found. TJ maybe???
Mine will do the same thing ,come out mostly in the morning and it feels like no clutch kinda a surprise at 4:00am . part way to work and it's ok.
Doesn't happen consistently maybe 2 or 3 times a month and then not for 2 or 3 months. :banghead:
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When I start my bike, let it warm up, and use the clutch for the 1st or second time during the ride if feels like it grabs too soon (too close to grip still) as I let it out. Whats up with that? After I ride it and shift gears a couple of times its perfectly back to normal.
Mine Kawi is long overdue to break, and I'm asking because i have a cross country trip soon. If clutch needs attention I'd rather do it now that later.
Thanks in advance for input
Sure its not a KIPASS issue Steve?
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Sure its not a KIPASS issue Steve?
He could blame KIPASS even for low pressure in the tires.
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He could blame KIPASS even for low pressure in the tires.
Actually since the TPS and KIPASS are both part of the same system, this could be true! :D
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I'm surprised that you haven't had the guys replace the parts again! ::)
Yeah, that was me. The 'cure' was a new slave cylinder assembly (under warranty). Tom Hess had the same problem shortly afterward but I don't remember what the cure was on his bike.
The change on my bike is very consistent and predictable- it only does it when it has been sitting for something like 20 minutes to a couple of hours after being up to full operating temperature. If allowed to cool all the way back down (overnight), the clutch engagement point is in the normal place, close to fully released.
Brian
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Oh I may do that- it is still under warranty for some time yet. Not like that other brand bike that only comes with a one year warranty and the extended warranty only reaches 5 years. I can't think of the name of it....?? Let's see, it ticks all day long but doesn't tell the time. It has had an ignition recall. It has had an ECU recall. The name is right on the tip of my tongue. It only has five gears. It came in the same color two years in a row..... If only I could remember the name. Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway as it was only an inferior comparator to a C-14 anyway.
Here Kitty, kitty.
;D
Brian
I'm surprised that you haven't had the guys replace the parts again! ::)
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Fortunately mine has stayed consistent after 30K miles. I am a firm believer that you should change your fluid out at least every 2 years at the latest. If your rack up miles quickly, then I'd say every 15,000 miles. I'm always surprised how brown the fluid gets after I change it out. You'd think it would last longer, but my clutch fluid is brown within a month or two of when I change it. It's so easy to do that I probably do mine about every 10K miles. This may have nothing to do with the engagement position changing you guys are seeing, but I know mine hasn't changed for what it's worth.
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Steve,
If it helps, I was talking to the mechanic / designer / conversion expert of Authority Sales (the guys who supply the C14 Police version) last week. We were discussing what changes they made to the bikes from stock, and after he finished his list, I mentioned the clutch.
He said they make no changes to the clutch system on the C14, that it has been bullet proof for them. They have never heard of a single complaint or problem from any of their C14 Police bike customers. He went on to comment on how easy it would be to replace the clutch disks if needed (lay the bike over, pull the cover, don't even drain the oil!).
Considering most of their low speed control is done by feathering the clutch, they are probably the worst for abusing them.
He also mentioned how they upgrade the clutches on every other bike they sell, like the ST's, the BMW's, and all other conversions they've done, but not the Connie.
I figure that's about the best testimonial there is for the C14 clutch.
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When I start my bike, let it warm up, and use the clutch for the 1st or second time during the ride if feels like it grabs too soon (too close to grip still) as I let it out. Whats up with that? After I ride it and shift gears a couple of times its perfectly back to normal.
Mine Kawi is long overdue to break, and I'm asking because i have a cross country trip soon. If clutch needs attention I'd rather do it now that later.
Thanks in advance for input
Yep the bike is shot! Throw it away! If you want to keep it out of the land fill and save the world give it to me and I'll suffer with the negatives of having a trash bike. :)
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I agree the clutches are tough, on the ZX14s we drag raced them to death launching at 8K plus repeatedly for the life of the bike and I know guys that did that 1/4 mile at a time and racked up a LOT of miles .
I will change my clutch fluid. Again, never owned a bike to enough miles to worry about such till this C14
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Wow, crazy. This morning, I started the C14, backed it out of the garage, and sat there until my buddy got his helmet and gloves on. Put it in first gear, started letting out the clutch, and it tried to take off with the clutch lever only 1/4" from the grip. I sat there shaking my head, after trying it several times. It started behaving fine after a few cycles of the lever while in neutral.
Steve, you jinxed me! >:( ;D
Let us know if changing your clutch hydraulic fluid fixes yours. I wont be doing mine for awhile (too many other fires to stomp on right now).
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Update: clutch has another 8,000 miles on it, still acts weird and unpredictable as far as where the "grab point' will be until I take off a few times.
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Update: clutch has another 8,000 miles on it, still acts weird and unpredictable as far as where the "grab point' will be until I take off a few times.
Did you change the fluid? and did it make a difference?
The only bike I have put that many miles on was my Valkyrie. After about 50,000 miles I had the same symptoms as you are seeing. The reason was that the clutch in the Valk has a damper plate that has 2 plates riveted together with leaf springs in between that gives the whole assembly a few millimeters of cushion. Those rivets started to come apart. The other plates looked fine and hardly worn even compared to a new clutch. Looking at the exploded view in the manual it doesn't look like the C14 has a damper plate like the Valk but the symptoms sound similar.
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It's not at all unusual for clutch plates to stick together a bit when cold. As soon is it warms up a little, the plates naturally release. If you have thicker oil than 10W/40 even more likely to happen.
But I'd also agree that changing out the clutch reservoir regularly with fresh fluid solves some of these problems.
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I have this exact problem...kinda frequently too. The clutch lever feels 'soft' and requires a full pull into the handle (from where I have it set anyway) to disengage the clutch. If it's really soft, the bike will jump ahead when putting it into gear the first time. All becomes right with the world after a mile or two down the road and a couple cycles through the gears.
Haven't really explored any fixes for it yet. Sounds like the problem is more common than I thought.
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Mine has only done this one other time since back in May when SteveWFL put the hex on me.
I do squeeze and release the clutch several times before putting it in gear now though to check how it feels.
It's probably just moisture in the hydraulic fluid, and a fresh fluid change will probably fix it.
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If you haven't changed the fluids in a while I would do that before your trip
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Just as an aside, brake fluid has a built- in indicator of its condition; it starts out clear and gets progressively darker as it is contaminated with water. As a general rule of thumb, the fluid should be changed before it gets even remotely close to opaque. I change mine when it is 'tan' or similar. Brake fluid alone will not allow corrosion anywhere in the system that is flooded with brake fluid, any corrosion (usually around the seal lips of the slave cylinders) is due to collected water in the brake fluid.
Brian
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I have this exact problem...kinda frequently too. The clutch lever feels 'soft' and requires a full pull into the handle (from where I have it set anyway) to disengage the clutch. If it's really soft, the bike will jump ahead when putting it into gear the first time. All becomes right with the world after a mile or two down the road and a couple cycles through the gears.
Haven't really explored any fixes for it yet. Sounds like the problem is more common than I thought.
I noticed this too and also that the fluid in the reservoir get kinda dark (but not the brake MC) So I bled new fluid into the clutch master cylinder and it was back to like new feel.
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I had a similar problem last year. I changed the fluid and never got the operation back. neither could the dealer. Long story short, Ma Kaw ended up replacing the master cylinder.
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Mine does that but only when it is hot and has been sitting for a while but not long enough to cool down. When the bike is at running temp. or cold, the clutch engagement point is the same; when it is hot and has been sitting for a while, say 20 minutes, the clutch engagement point moves toward the handlebar quite a bit. The slave cylinder was replaced and it cured the problem for a while but it is back now (maybe 15K miles since the slave cylinder was replaced).
It seems very repeatable and <more or less> normal. I will change my clutch fluid and let it go at that unless or until there are other symptoms. The clutch itself works perfectly so it is nothing to worry about IMO, and there are 62K miles on my bike.
Brian
Mine did this too. I was in El Paso Tx, very warm day. Had changed my clutch fluid prior to the MC trip, so I know its not old fluid issue. At first I thought I was loosing clutch fluid but after about two or three shifts the clutch engagement was back to normal. Next day it did the same thing after a ride in hot weather and setting for a while. Guess it has something to do with high temps and sitting for a short time.