Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: CrashKLRtoConnie on May 25, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
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While I am sure that a toasted rear drive on the C14 will make loud clanking noises (at least until it explodes) ...
Has anyone done an audio / video with sound recording while rotating (by hand / with bike on the center stand) the rear drive?
My guess is there may be a sound pattern that would indicate:
1. A well lubed drive (that has no service needs)
2. A in need of lube drive (but no permanent damage)
3. A you are F&$# sound of money leaving your pocket (permanent damage to the drive)
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(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/readfacts.gif)
this topic needed to be brought up
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Is someone one hearing noises?
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At one time there was a vid on youtube. I just looked and couldn't find it.
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The sky is falling?
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The sky is falling?
Looking at some of the areas that have been hit by tornados, I think that it's the other way around.
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Looking at some of the areas that have been hit by tornados, I think that it's the other way around.
+1
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Is someone one hearing noises?
No but, I SEE DEAD PEOPLE......
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My drive shaft dosen't make any noise when rotated by hand, but if I put it in 1st or 2nd gear and let the clutch out at idle (on the center stand) it rattles.
The rattle seems to be coming from the joint area toward the front.
I'm wondering if thats normal because there isn't a load on the shaft???
I have 31,000mi. on my '09 and change the final drive fluid every oil change.
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WRT my 2008 Connie with under 9k miles.
(I have been her owner for only ~ 3 months / 1k miles and she made the same noise from the day I inspected her on the day I bought her)
The Noise Is Found ONLY:
With the motor off, I hear a faint "clicking noise", when I rotate the rear wheel with it on the center strand or when I roll the connie in or out of the garage.
Bought Fred DVDs and Honda Moly 60, but have not found the time or motivation to inspect and lube the splines. (I am both Lazy and Stupid at times)
Regarding your noise "rattle":
I hear what I think is a clutch bearing/shaft rattle noise when she is idling comparing the sound with the clutch engaged in gear and the clutch released while in neutral.
I believe that both your rattle and my clicking are considered normal to the C14. (Maybe we could start a band or at least street performance art tour)
However, I thought this forum would be a good place to have reference audio files so owners could compare what they hear to what sounds are typical and not of concern ... :-X (but if wishes were horses my connie would have over 200 hp)
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You're certainly welcome to record it and share it with us..
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The Rear Drive Noise Video. 2008 C14.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLishjQyuDo
I will show you mine if you show my yours .... 8)
UPDATE JUNE 1, 2011
No rear drive sound after Honda Moly 60 Lube of rear drive splines. No damage noted, no loose clips. Happy Happy Joy Joy
c14 2008 after Spline Lube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-2t5eOIhoc#)
FOUND THIS ON YOU TUBE OF ANOTHER CONNIE WITH NOISE. (ANYONE KNOW THE FINAL OUTCOME OF THIS) ??
Concours 14 clunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXrg0hVZyQg#)
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I hear birds....you have to get rid of them first. If that's your bike making the clicking noise then you need to remove the wheel and drop the rear drive and lube up the forward part of the drive shaft. My bike does not make bird sounds or clicking noises.
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Yep, I hear birds too... :o ???
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I can hear knocking. Try greasing the splines.
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Plan is to lube / moly the rear drive - splines over the long weekend.
note: (the local Eagles? plan to eat the birds from the video)
See attached photo taken a day or so ago (Golden Eagle? Eating A small Bird In Our Backyard)
As this is my first time, I have reviewed Fred's DVDs, and wonder how long a newbie would take for this task?
1. Remove rear tire
2. Remove / moly 60 lube / replace
3. Replace rear tire
(My guess is 2 hours?)
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Depends how much you've had to drink before you do the job....
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I can understand that.
Karen and I went to Kublacon last night and I had 64 oz of draft at Knuckles Sports Bar. (War gaming and other games at Kublacon)
A beer buzz feels great .... until the next morning.
Kublacon
http://www.kublacon.com/ (http://www.kublacon.com/)
War College at Kublacon
http://www.kublacon.info/kcsearch/kcindex.lasso?page=hits&link_pref=12&Subcat=WarCollege&sort_pref=DayTime_Sort&order_pref=ascending (http://www.kublacon.info/kcsearch/kcindex.lasso?page=hits&link_pref=12&Subcat=WarCollege&sort_pref=DayTime_Sort&order_pref=ascending)
note: I drink for effect not for taste. God Bless Our Troops and Our Allies' Troops (and their families)
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I hear you, brother....
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I can understand that.
Karen and I went to Kublacon last night and I had 64 oz of draft at Knuckles Sports Bar. (War gaming and other games at Kublacon)
A beer buzz feels great .... until the next morning.
Kublacon
http://www.kublacon.com/ (http://www.kublacon.com/)
War College at Kublacon
http://www.kublacon.info/kcsearch/kcindex.lasso?page=hits&link_pref=12&Subcat=WarCollege&sort_pref=DayTime_Sort&order_pref=ascending (http://www.kublacon.info/kcsearch/kcindex.lasso?page=hits&link_pref=12&Subcat=WarCollege&sort_pref=DayTime_Sort&order_pref=ascending)
note: I drink for effect not for taste. God Bless Our Troops and Our Allies' Troops (and their families)
You're not sposed to stop drinking till the next morning, that was your problem.
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But did you ever grease the splines?
:o
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Does it matter that the wheel is being turned backward? I would expect the parts to be designed to handle thrust in one direction and might sound different when turned backward.?
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I rotated the tire by hand in the forward direction. Did not check for sound in reverse.
Just got done with the Honda Moly 60 lube. Thanks again to Fred and his DVD helps a lot.
Need to go for a long ride but on the center stand no noise by hand or in 6 gear at idle. (just washed off the Moly and Grease and going for a ride.
Fingers Crossed
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Crash: In the video isn't it rotating in reverse?
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You are right. I was wrong. The video clearly shows we rotating the rear tire in reverse :-[
The noise did occur in both directions, but may have been louder in reverse ? (as an engineer I should have known better to document the inspection ;) )
Today: So after a short 40 mile ride came home and the noise is still gone. (recall it was gone after I lubed the spines).
THOUGHTS:
During the lube I inspected each area and found no visible damage to any of the spline surfaces. I also noticed that the lube coating seemed less on the front spline than the other areas. Looking at the hold down band near the front spine, it looked like it had never been removed. (limited bending, scratches limited, bend down arms looked OEM new and the deformation of the rubber boot limited and in one fixed location). So my guess is that the splines had not been lubed since the factory build 2007 (2008 model) and almost 9,000 miles ago.
Also the Honda Moly 60 grease tube is received was only 2/3 full.
May redo the video .... both directions this time ..
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onward to page 27!? (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/badteeth.gif)
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<sarcasm>Wow, mine made the exact same bird-like noises! I ended up taking off the reflectors on the left side of the bike (the ones on the drive shaft side) greasing them and reinstalling. I did not hear the bird-like noises after that.</sarcasm> Also, I never heard the slight "clunking" noises like yours.
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BUMP TO SHOW PRE / POST Lube VIDEOS and ANOTHER VIDEO SHOWING A SIMILAR NOISE ON A CONNIE ( )
ALL ADDED IN FIRST STARTING POST
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BUMP TO SHOW PRE / POST Lube VIDEOS and ANOTHER VIDEO SHOWING A SIMILAR NOISE ON A CONNIE ( )
ALL ADDED IN FIRST STARTING POST
Thanks for the info!
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A little off subject, but while washing my bike I rotated the R. wheel in reverse and it made almost a knocking sound. However, in the forward direction all was quiet. So I'm pretty sure you must rotate forward to properly load the gears and not get any unusual sounds.
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Phil
Your inputs make sense. I thought to summary what I recalled on my noise while it is still fresh.
Before I bought my 2008 C14, I did some internet review and found that some people had found rear drive clicking and someone posted that a Dealer suggested slight clicking is okay and nothing to worry about. (unless you hear clunks?)
When I was checking the bike out before I bought it, I turned by hand the rear wheel, (thought I turned it forward and reverse), and could hear some clicking. (That was a few months ago and about 1000 miles ago). So I bought her and planned to lube the splines in the near future.
I started to think about the noise more and posted my question about what noise is normal .. as Pre lube I could hear the a faint noise pushing my bike in and out of the garage (engine off).
Pre lube with the bike on the center stand I could hear the noise both forward and reverse when I moved the rear wheel by hand. I believe it was louder in reverse but not sure.
The noise seemed to be loudest in the forward spline area of the drive and I could not hear it towards the rear of the bike.
After I lubed all the spline / rear drive locations (Thanks to Fred's DVDs) and Honda Moly 60, I could not hear any noise in the forward and reverse direction. (after about 100 miles since I lube them I cannot hear any noise).
I posted the both pre and post lube video and later posted someone else's 2008 C14 that had a similar noise .. and asked the group if anyone can recall what the other C14 rear noise owner found.
Overall, I would find it useful to see / hear a set of known C14 rear drive noises if such noises can be used as a precursor to rear drive lube requirement .. sort of like a rear chain drive slack measurement.
(note: perhaps in the future .... Exhaust header leaks, noisy wheel bearing, head gasket leak and other diagnostic noises could also be useful to pin point what the issues is and where to look)
Thank you and everyone that posted thoughts and ideas.
Brent
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Drive shaft lubrication/inspection should be part of a yearly maintenance regimen.
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Drive shaft lubrication/inspection should be part of a yearly maintenance regimen.
You only get it once a year?!!!!
8)
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Drive shaft lubrication/inspection should be part of a yearly maintenance regimen.
Which is why you are going to come and help me do mine later this year. Of course good hearty and wholesome drinks will be provided during said process. ;)
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Anytime my friend, anytime...
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Onward to 27 pages! ;D
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UPDATE ON CLICKING NOISE:
from ..... Fred H. ..... posted in a reply to my post on another site ..... "I had a little light clicking on mine that sounded similar and went away after I pulled the driveshaft and lubed both ends with Honda Moly."
Hope that helps others that may encounter a rear drive clicking sound.
Also FYI From 2008 Service Manual
Drive line noise:
Rear wheel coupling damaged
Bevel gear bearing worn
Bevel gears worn or chipped
Insufficient lubricant
Bevel gears misaligned
Tetra lever links bearings worn
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I looked at this thread for the first time today and really did have every intention to say something smart- a$$ed but after reading a bit I see virtually everyone beat me to it. And the O.P. has taken all of that with good grace. ;D So seeing as we have the chuckling out of the way, perhaps this will be useful:
When a 4- way trunion type U-joint rotates, the shaft gets longer and shorter (easy boys!); it is just a normal characteristic of this type of U-joint and perfectly normal and the reason constant velocity (CV) universal joints are used in more critical applications (front wheel drive cars for example). It seems that a lot of, or all of, C-14 driveshaft splines did not get lubed at the factory (easy again boys!) so when the drive shaft is rotated, it loads the spline ends first getting longer and then getting shorter. What you are hearing is the 'tink' of the splines being loaded in each direction. When you grease the splines it cushions them so they no longer 'tink'; the grease does not change the situation but it does remove the ability to make noise in the same way covering a drum head would stop the noise when hit by a drumstick.
So it is normal for the driveshaft to make some <relatively minor> noise when rotated in a quiet environment (no engine running, etc.). Grease quiets the noise without really making any difference mechanically. But lubricating splines is always a good idea (easy boys!) and cannot hurt anything so it is a great idea to do this to a C-14 (and any other shaft drive bike) when the rear wheel is removed for service anyway.
Brian
UPDATE ON CLICKING NOISE:
<snipped update>