Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: scootertrash on August 14, 2012, 01:20:26 PM
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Is it realistically worth trying to adjust the valved on the 08 c14 "land shark", or simply take it to the dealer. I can easily remove the valve cover(ok, not easily) and check the clearance, but have never removed cam's and done the nasty. oh, it has 13 k miles on it now.
If anyone in the sacto area likes teaching this skill to a rookie, I'm game and can supply taisty beverages for the endeavor.
Also, in keeping with my run on paragraph's, I plugged the air suction house with a rubber plug, and i am wondering if removing all the smog equipment and reed valves is worth the trouble? Thank's for any help you may offer.
Lastely, anyone recommend a dual tread compound tire for the connie, with sticky sides and decent mileage in ze middle.
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Man...never going back to the dealer. For any work. Ever. At all. Definitely recommend you do the adjustment yourself.
But then, I am not in Sacto either. Sorry...
Get the manual...follow the directions, especially about tensioners and the like...measure everything with the cams IN...take the cams OUT...DO NOT turn the crank with the cams out...DO NOT drop stuff in the crankcase...measure the shims and make a table for next time...out with the old, in with the new...back together. Measure again once everything is back together...now you get to feel like a real mechanic. Seriously.
saxman
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Get some quotes from area dealers for what they would charge you to adjust the valves. Then you can decide if it is worth it for you to do it yourself. It isn't super difficult but it is VERY tedious.
[look at this space, it serves to break up more than one topic]
Michelin PR2's and PR3's are my favorites, just do a search and you will see many threads about the pro's and con's of each tire.
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There's plenty of threads here (lengthy) on valve adjustments. I'd look some up but I haven't had enough to drink yet. Try doing a search on 'valve adjustments' on just the C14 boards. Based on what I've seen here I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole, but that's me. Others and yourself may feel differently.
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There's plenty of threads here (lengthy) on valve adjustments. I'd look some up but I haven't had enough to drink yet. Try doing a search on 'valve adjustments' on just the C14 boards. Based on what I've seen here I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole, but that's me. Others and yourself may feel differently.
And just how much is enough Jim and when do you anticipate reaching that mark? :)
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I'll let you know shortly...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2506.msg28548#msg28548 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2506.msg28548#msg28548)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2615.msg29885#msg29885 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2615.msg29885#msg29885)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2682.msg30699#msg30699 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2682.msg30699#msg30699)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3318.msg38373#msg38373 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3318.msg38373#msg38373)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3491.msg40197#msg40197 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3491.msg40197#msg40197)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6357.msg74896#msg74896 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6357.msg74896#msg74896)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6542.msg77361#msg77361 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6542.msg77361#msg77361)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg83772#msg83772 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg83772#msg83772)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7087.msg83788#msg83788 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7087.msg83788#msg83788)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8690.msg105583#msg105583 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8690.msg105583#msg105583)
This should fulfill your reading needs for a few hours at least. Read them all and form your own opinion. We had some very good threads in the old forum but they went poof. Such is the digital age.
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A valve lash adjustment on a C-14 is not for the impatient. It is modestly demanding, does take a bit of finese and I think some previous internal engine experience, and is a time consuming task due to all the things you have to do to get ready to actually adjust the valves. Also, there is a tricky part where you have to use the cam bearing caps to force the cam down against some of the valve springs- it is not really addressed in the service manual but it must be done slowly and deliberately or you can crack a cam bearing cap runner (one person that I know of has done that).
As to whether or not it is something you want to do yourself, that is entirely dependant on whether or not you have a competent dealer nearby and what your own labor is worth to you.
There is little reason to plug the air injection system on the C-14- it will not yield any more power or performance. It seems that most people who do plug it are those who have an aftermarket exhaust and hear deceleration popping; the popping was always there but cannot really be heard with the stock exahust system.
As far as tires, most of use seem to be using Pirelli Angel GT's, or Michelin Pilot Road 2 or Pilot Road 3s on our C-14s with excellent success. I have used all three with and have been happy with all but my favorite is the PR3 for the combination of stickiness, longevity, and especially, retaining good handling manners while wearing down. The Angels are good, and quite sticky but do not yield the same mileage although they are considerably less expensive so that is probably a wash but what I found to be a bit on the poor side is the way the handling deteriorated quite significantly even before the tire was half- consumed.
Brian
Is it realistically worth trying to adjust the valved on the 08 c14 "land shark", or simply take it to the dealer. I can easily remove the valve cover and check the clearance, but have never removed cam's and done the nasty. If anyone in the sacto area likes teaching this skill to a rookie, I'm game and can supply taisty beverages for the endeavor. Also, in keeping with my run on paragraph's, I plugged the air suction house with a rubber plug, and i am wondering if removing all the smog equipment and reed valves is worth the trouble? Thank's for any help you may offer. Lastely, anyone recommend a dual tread compound tire for the connie, with sticky sides and decent mileage in ze middle.
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+1
I have an Area P and haven't noticed any popping on deceleration. Could be I'm deaf, though.
PR3s for me.
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If you have to ask, no, don't try it. It's not something you will get done by a stranger for tasty beverages. It's a three day intensive mechanical skills required job that can't be done while you drink those tasty beverages. You need many tools including torque wrenches, and the ability to apply gasket seal and know where to put it and where not to put it. There are many opportunities to bugger up critical parts that will leave you stranded later. You need a clean environment with lots of space to do this correctly. And you will have to order shims and other parts and wait for them, so the job will take weeks, unless you just force the feeler gauges and say, hey, that's pretty close.
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Thank you for the reply's. I'm quite mechanically competent, if not mentally challenged, and semi patient, so I will attempt this valve adjustment myself, mainly for the challenge. I can always bail and bring it to the dealer, providing I don't screw anything up. I simply don't trust dealer tech's to care very much about doing a good job(ref." Zen, and the art of motorcycle maintenance"). Again, thanks to everyone for replying.
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I did mine over winter. It just takes patients. It isn't difficult just make sure you know where your parts go so you can put it back together.
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You never mention what miles are on your '08. Many peeps have found their valves to be well in spec into higher mileages. Are you looking to do the 15k valve check?
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13k miles. Didnt the owners manual say 12k miles for the first valve check? Maybe i can't read any better than i can type.
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did mine, not that bad. just a suggestion though, get Fred Harmon's video. Under 100 bucks. Best money I ever spent!
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did mine, not that bad. just a suggestion though, get Fred Harmon's video. Under 100 bucks. Best money I ever spent!
Fred Harmons video is available on this site, or ebay, or?
thank you for the suggestion.
Maybe I can pay someone 50 bucks to share the Video, or go half's with someone as crazy as me who wants to do his own valve adjustment.
Just askin.
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It's not available on this site. Fred has a web site where he sells these videos. http://www.angelridevideos.com/ (http://www.angelridevideos.com/)
It's about $100 or so with the 2010 info addition. Probably one of the less expensive farkles you'll buy. If you want to be frugal, buy a C10. Valve adjustment is easier as well but you have to do more of them.
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I m about there also and was indecided about doing it myself or bring it to the dealer. Thing is i dont trust the dealers around here. Last one i tried had a freakin hard time programming a CC fob key. Had to do it myself, twice since he was keeping deleting one transponder each time he was programming the other
Im just looking for a competent mechanic near by
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Gonna give you a huge tip, plus this is a debate which has been covered many times on here, I did a step by step of doing the shims a while back, the huge tip is "use TWO zip ties on each cam sprocket to the chain to stop it jumping a tooth"
Its a easy job, but is time consuming, do it yourself (Ive done a bunch of 08's and 09's) take your time and save $$$$$$ from the dealer of which the mechanic MIGHT NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT, hey! some mechanics have never done it and have to work from the shop manual.
Do it yourself, and take PIX PIX PIX as you go along and do drawings too, those oil lines under the cover look confusing, but they only go in one way, hence PIX or drawings...
I always take pics or quick drawings, it HELPS....
Good luck.
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FYI (to all that want to do this job themselves) The CAMS DONT have to come out, seriously, they can stay in, just zip tie the cam chain to the sprockets to stop the chain jumping a tooth.
The cams CAN BE LIFTED UP, the bitch one is the front right shim......%$^$#@@ (short for cursing) that is a hassle if the shim has to be changed, the bucket is a squeeze to get out sometimes....
Hope I helped a wee bit...
OH, make sure on completion you use a bead of good sealer on the cam cover and let the NEW gasket sit in it for a while, then tighten down evenly and check and double check the gasket is all even all around and seals properly, laziness on this part will have you going back in to straighten out the gasket, do it right the FIRST time.
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13k miles. Didnt the owners manual say 12k miles for the first valve check? Maybe i can't read any better than i can type.
Manual says 15K in the US & Canada, 24K everywhere else. The engine is designed for 24K, but EPA testing regulations offer 15K or 30K. Kawi listed 15K in the manual and removed the O2 sensors for the US bikes.
It's a shame the EPA doesn't have a better policy, because then we might have a closed loop EFI system.
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I did mine over winter. It just takes patients. It isn't difficult just make sure you know where your parts go so you can put it back together.
Mental patients?
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Sometime I wonder. (patience)
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I think I am going to trade it in at 30,000 miles instead of doing a Valve job. That's like getting an extra $1000 for trade in. 8)
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Good one. Let me know how that plays out. Can you explain why corvettes with 500 horsepower never need a valve adjust, but Japan thinks there plan is better. My Camry has an overhead cam, as did my svt cobra mustang, and strangely, no valve checks. Riddle me this.
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Hydraulic followers.
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Ok, maybe I should rephrase the?. I am aware of hydraulic lifters and how they function. My ? Is why can't the bike builders use them, especially on bikes not designed to race, and where valve cover access is such a problem. Is it ok with everyone that the Golding, who's valve covers are right there, have hydralic lifters, and the concourse who's valve cover might as well be on the moon, needs manual adjustment. Is it really even conceivable that one of the most ancient designs of, and I dare use the term motorcycle(it has 2 wheels), the h.d, has readily accessible valve covers, yet does not need valve adjustments.
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It may seem like a plot just to annoy you but it is really physics that is in the way. There are two basic problems with self- adjusting lifters on the C-14:
1) Engine speed. A C-14 engine will turn 10K RPM and hydraulic lifters float (pump up and hang the valve open) at those speeds.
2) Room: the C-14 is a shim under bucket design and there just isn't room for the hydraulics between the top of the valve and the bottom of the shim bucket. Of course Kawasaki could make the engine taller to accommodate the hydraulics but the bike is already tall with many finding it to be too tall- raising it won't win a lot of new business. And there is still problem #1.
Brian
Ok, maybe I should rephrase the?. I am aware of hydraulic lifters and how they function. My ? Is why can't the bike builders use them, especially on bikes not designed to race, and where valve cover access is such a problem. Is it ok with everyone that the Golding, who's valve covers are right there, have hydralic lifters, and the concourse who's valve cover might as well be on the moon, needs manual adjustment. Is it really even conceivable that one of the most ancient designs of, and I dare use the term motorcycle(it has 2 wheels), the h.d, has readily accessible valve covers, yet does not need valve adjustments.
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Ok, maybe I should rephrase the?. I am aware of hydraulic lifters and how they function. My ? Is why can't the bike builders use them, especially on bikes not designed to race, and where valve cover access is such a problem. Is it ok with everyone that the Golding, who's valve covers are right there, have hydralic lifters, and the concourse who's valve cover might as well be on the moon, needs manual adjustment. Is it really even conceivable that one of the most ancient designs of, and I dare use the term motorcycle(it has 2 wheels), the h.d, has readily accessible valve covers, yet does not need valve adjustments.
The Goldwing has not used hydraulic lifters since 2000 in the 1500. All GL1800s since 2001 require valve adjustments every 32,000 miles. The reasons given by Honda were higher rpm's and making the engine smaller.
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The Goldwing has not used hydraulic lifters since 2000 in the 1500. All GL1800s since 2001 require valve adjustments every 32,000 miles. The reasons given by Honda were higher rpm's and making the engine smaller.
Yeah, that 6000 rpm redline on the GW is really pushing the envelope :nuts:
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Ok, you have me there, I am familiar with the 1500 goldwing, and missed the change. but that really didnt answer the question. So hydralic tapets are too big and restrict rpm too much for use in motorcycles. Since the wing and H.d's are the only bikes i can think of with um, except for the 80's honda knitehawk's, I guess that's that.
Is this why no builder in europe like ferrari, Lamborghini uses hydro tapet's in there hi revving engines?
I guess I will consider myself lucky that I didn't buy the multistrada and have to deal with the complexity of the desmodromic tar baby, yes?
To avoid offending anyone, I should point out that if money were no object, I would own both a harley ultra couch glide, and a Ducati multistada in a heartbeat. just sayin.
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Look up three posts from here at reply #26- there is an answer to your question.
Brian
Ok, you have me there, I am familiar with the 1500 goldwing, and missed the change. but that really didnt answer the question. So hydralic tapets are too big and restrict rpm too much for use in motorcycles. Since the wing and H.d's are the only bikes i can think of with um, except for the 80's honda knitehawk's, I guess that's that.
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Yes, I quoted (without Quotation marks) your reply in my reply to your reply. Sorry, put you gotta laugh at that.
You are, of course correct about the reason's. I still think it's a plot by the manufactures to increase earning's in the service department. To make up for mistakes by tech's, like the one in kalispell, montana(kawi dealer) who broke the 200$ tps sensor changing my back tire. This after I offered to buy everybody lunch if they got me out of there quick. they didnt.
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My prius doesn't use hydraulic lifters. Must be the high performance engine in it... :rotflmao:
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My prius doesn't use hydraulic lifters. Must be the high performance engine in it... :rotflmao:
Nice. So what interval on the hi performance prius"ss" valve lash check?
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120k. I've missed that one and the 240k interval. They are a bit noisy so I've been thinking about getting that looked at.
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You have more than 240k miles on the prius ss? How is it doing, becides the loose valve clearance?(apparently the valves get looser and not tighter?) I've been thinking prius, but the wife refuses because top gear hates it so much. 55 mpg win's my heart. Any maintenance issues with it?
thank's.
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I saw the Top Gear test they did and it was bogus as far as checking out the car and gas mileage. Just yesterday, on I95 I was getting 55mpg. It's a good vehicle. It's not a Corvette but for it's purpose it's quite adequate. PM me if you want more info.
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Did you get 55 mpg by taking the mileage and gallons actually used, or is that what the little TV on the dash told you? I have noticed most Prius drivers are going down the highway at 48 mph hunkered over the little tv screen, having little green orgasms as the screen shows larger and larger green bars.
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Know that's funny right there.
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Did you get 55 mpg by taking the mileage and gallons actually used, or is that what the little TV on the dash told you? I have noticed most Prius drivers are going down the highway at 48 mph hunkered over the little tv screen, having little green orgasms as the screen shows larger and larger green bars.
Yes, I typically ride in the left lane in I95 in northern VA doing 50 mph delighting in how many conventional drivers I **** off. That's what gets me off, not the mpg I get. ::)
But to answer your question on the MPG. I do use the screen for the most part as trying to get accurate readings using the ole fill the tank method and seeing how much is used between fill ups isn't accurate either on my car. The fuel tank has a bladder that expands and contracts with the amount of fuel in it. This was used for emissions. Unfortunately, it's elasticity (and mine) changes with the temperature outside the vehicle so unless I fill it up at exactly the same temperature those readings are suspect as well, at least that's what I've found.
In living in the northern VA area and driving here for many years I can't say that I've seen a Prius tooling along at 48mph. Most drivers here bought them to use in the HOV lanes. Why just yesterday on 3, I passed a newer Prius that was doing 60 in the right lane. I drive mine at speed or higher depending on how I feel and the flow of traffic. My car (or any that I've owned in the past) has never doddled along in any lane of traffic.
And that's it for the Prius. I know I started this conversation but let's veer it back on to the valve adjustment path (C14), please. Start a new thread in Open if you want to learn more from someone that's owned one since late 2004.
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Just had my valves checked for the first time at 28,640 miles. The results in inches were:
Exhaust:
.008 .008 .009 .009 .009 .009 .009 .009
Intake:
.0065 .006 .006 .006 .006 .006 .006 .006
I was surprised that all were relatively center. I might do this again at 60,000 weather it needs it or not.