TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?

[lather]

Dude - you don't have to explain anything to me, and I really don't need a lecture.  I get it , I just disagree.  The feature is not worth the cost, as designed is unreliable, and clearly not worth the hassle. 

Dave

Ride safe

I apologize if my post came across the wrong way. I agree the system has its flaws but do not agree that it is not worth the hassle.

[Shadowofshoe]

 I must just disagree with you Dave,sorry. I had a incident where if I bet my life-maybe front wheel damage,if anything and though the years it wouldn't amounted to "a hill of beans"....but this time it was a problem-TPS told me it was my new rear r-Pilot 2 with a medium leak-enough info not to push it and get to safety. I'm a fan.
  Mike
Ride safe

[maxtog]

This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem.  The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.

I don't think you are being ignored, nor do I think you are a dolt   However, I don't totally agree with your assessment (I just partially agree with it).  I don't think it is a programming error- I believe at cold temperatures, when the circuit is first awakened, the battery voltage *is* probably low enough to fall below spec.  Being low when cold and first used is typical for older batteries.  Also, people have reported total battery rundown after just a few years or less which probably is a problem with battery size/capacity.  So the battery low messages are not really "false", they are just too sensitive and perhaps not necessary at that point in the battery's life.  I do believe a programming change to give the sensor another moment to "warm up" (actually, voltage up) would help suppress unnecessary messages when the battery is near the tail end of its service life (regardless of how large the battery is).

As for your question- battery service life is a function of capacity (amp hours), how much power is pulled and how often, and some environmental factors.  A larger battery will last longer, it is just that simple. Lithium batteries can easily be made to last 10 years in any application, as long as you are free to increase the size/capacity of the battery pack.  In this example, had they used TWO coin cells in parallel, it would last exactly twice as long.  There is some magic formula the designers used for how large a battery they wanted in the sensor, and I just think they picked a bit too small.  A larger battery might cost a bit more and will have a bit more volume and mass.  Considering what a PITA it is to replace such a device, it seems to me it would be worth the extra cost/volume/mass... but I don't know exactly what constraints they were working with at the time.  I can't image cost would be THAT important, since I estimate that the cost of doubling the cell capacity in the sensor would be less than $1.

As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.

Couldn't agree more, of course.

[OCK913]

I don't think it is a programming error-  ....................................  I do believe a programming change to give the sensor another moment to "warm up" (actually, voltage up) would help suppress unnecessary messages

          

[CrashGordon]

I love TPS; it has saved me from probable bad things a couple of times. I just think the low battery warning is useless. When you get it, your options are to ignore it until it goes away or hassle your dealer until he changes out the unit. Why warn you about something that you can't fix yourself when the alternative (the unit stops reading) is just as effective as a warning? Particularly when the system is so prone to false errors?

[rcannon409]

I appreciate this thread.   Taking a closer look at my warning message on Sat, heres exactly what happened.   I started riding int he morning. Temp was 40 degrees. Warmer in my garage though, and it was closer to 55.   

The front tps showed "low battery". The rear displayed correct pressure.  After 5 or so miles the front warning disappeared and showed 40 psi.      The interesting part was this.  I ended up near the mountains, so it was colder ....closer to 35 degrees.   We stopped and had dinner before going home. Maybe the tire  stayed above 55 degrees for the hour we were in the restaurant, but I felt it was cold enough to show another warning, and it did not. 

I'll check infrared temps tomorrow and see if I can get some idea of tire temps...at least the outside of the tire.

[Conrad]

My TPMS has been acting a bit different this cold weather season. In the past I've always seen the low bat warnings when it was cold out, both front and rear, and as I rode and the system warmed, it went away. The front is still acting this way but the rear is different. I won't get the warning initially, just the correct pressure reading, but about the time my front warning goes away the rear comes on but goes away after about 10 more mins of riding.   

[VirginiaJim]

Mine is doing the exact same thing...

[Conrad]

Mine is doing the exact same thing...

Copy cat.

[VirginiaJim]

 

[rcannon409]

I checked the temp this morning on my front rim.  It was 42 degrees.  Within a quarter mile, both sensors showed a pressure reading, but it took a minute to do so. The rear displayed 42, but the front showed low battery.   Within a 2 mile ride the front tps sensor stopped giving the low battery warning.   The front  rim still showed 42 degrees right against the tps sensor. Obviously it may have warmed slightly from the short ride, but the alloy rim should have been able to show any significant change.

In the name of science I was forced to ride across town and eat.  I stayed there for a hour and  a half.  I checked the rim temp before I left and it was 40 degrees.  No low battery warning.  I'm starting to believe this hibernation thing.  I believe my front sensor is just more sleepy than the rear. 

[lather]

I checked the temp this morning on my front rim.  It was 42 degrees.  Within a quarter mile, both sensors showed a pressure reading, but it took a minute to do so. The rear displayed 42, but the front showed low battery.   Within a 2 mile ride the front tps sensor stopped giving the low battery warning.   The front  rim still showed 42 degrees right against the tps sensor. Obviously it may have warmed slightly from the short ride, but the alloy rim should have been able to show any significant change.

In the name of science I was forced to ride across town and eat.  I stayed there for a hour and  a half.  I checked the rim temp before I left and it was 40 degrees.  No low battery warning.  I'm starting to believe this hibernation thing.  I believe my front sensor is just more sleepy than the rear.

There is a lot  more to it than just temperature.  See reply #10 pf this thread.

[rcannon409]

There is a lot  more to it than just temperature.  See reply #10 pf this thread.

Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on?   or ends the hibernation?  And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document.  Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.

[B.D.F.]

I think it will work better if you turn a light on in the basement.... 

Not sure where this thread went to but our tire pressure sensors are turned on by the wheel rotating (centripetal force); once it hits something like 12 MPH, the sensors turn on and broadcast the pressure about every 20 seconds or so. They have no hibernation mode that I know of. The sensors stay on for something like a minute or two after the bike stops and then turn themselves off; this is done simply to save battery power.

The low battery warning when the sensors are cold is a function of the controller chip used in the sensor: it is a SP 30 from Infineon and the information on how it works is readily available if you want to look. The 'trip point' of the low battery warning is a function of the firmware supplied by Infineon and not part of the programming on the C-14 in any way. The sensors themselves are made by LDL in France, using Infineon's controllers, and supplied to Kawasaki. The last generation sensors seem to be using a later SP 35 controller but I do not know if the battery voltage threshold was changed on the later controller or not.

Brian

Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on?   or ends the hibernation?  And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document.  Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.

[Conrad]

Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on?   or ends the hibernation?  And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document.  Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.

Maybe once you get all those lights in your basement turned on forever you should start with the garage? At least it might warm Connie up a bit.

[gPink]

Maybe once you get all those lights in your basement turned on forever you should start with the garage? At least it might warm Connie up a bit.

CFL's will save him money if he leaves them on forever but they won't heat the garage much.
(sigh) Always a compromise.

[turbohawk]

Three things initially made me choose the C14 over the FJR: 3 year warranty, TPS and KiPass.  Since I actually paid over $1000 less for the C14 it was more than worth it. Sure, the TPS units aren't bargain cheap but chances are if you actually keep your bike beyond the extremely generous 36 months (even the FJR only had a 12 month warranty!) then dropping $700 to keep your sensors going is an option, and chances are they'll get replaced under warranty in the 3 years, so you could realistically get 6 years or more before you have to make this decision. The TPS and ABS both have paid for themselves in my use.  This griping is getting old about both the TPS and KiPass "haters". Seriously, did you not know it had these two systems when you bought the bike?  You could always trade it on on an FJR or the new beemer....  Peace out.

[feelergaugephil]

Wow, the great debate continues!!!!   I have 08, 28K on it, and yes, when cold the front TPS stays on with "low battery" which is annoying as hell, but after 5-6 miles .........yep, back to normal, so I'm leaving it for now.
As for the back TPS its fairly new and here's a warning to all, if you get a flat tire.... DONT PUT FIXAFLAT in it or any other kind of liquid/foam fixer!!!! It destroys the TPS, I had to buy a new one, warranty refused to cover it.....

[turbohawk]

I was wondering about this:

DONT PUT FIXAFLAT in it or any other kind of liquid/foam fixer!!!! It destroys the TPS, I had to buy a new one, warranty refused to cover it.....

Good to know and I'll pass this along to a pal that was thinking he'd carry a can just in case...

[Graffixnfun]

Very timely thread!  I have an '09 and ride year round.  This is the first year it started doing this and it is always when it is below freezing.  I thought the cold weather must be effecting it and now I know.  It happens exactly as described in this thread.  I will probably use the warranty to get them replaced.