+1

+2

I would love to help, but when a fellow forum member questions your integrity in a public forum, and basically demands proof of your actions and calls you a liar, that upsets me.

I understand what you are saying, but I for one, would really love to see a video of the system working. Are the keys used in place of the original stove key? If so, what keeps water out of the switch assembly?

Their site also mentions they want copies of your original purchase papers. Did you send those, and if so, did the papers include the code from Kawasaki that is used to program new fobs? That would be an important detail. IN all the years I have been on this forum, and others, (I have a 2009 bought new in 2010 and have been here since buying it.) I have never seen anyone get a new fob programed without the code.

I took a look and they are really throwing me with the 'red' key and the 'black' key. Especially since they are the exact same price as the active fob, $21.38 each. ?? ?? I believe Ducati has a red (master) and black (slave) keys but of course C-14 keys have no electronics in them in the first place so why two different types? They show all combinations with one red key and the rest black, just as it would work with a Ducati but that is not how the KiPass system works. They further explain that both the keys and fob have to be programmed, which again is odd. And they are calling it the 'KISS' system. ??

Anyway, it all sounds great if it works and is as it appears (a real, active fob for $21 as opposed to a 'credit card' type of fob).

Brian

Interesting, to say the least.

https://www.carmousa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4105

They even sell active fobs for $21?  (Says "0 in stock", however).

I wonder why it takes so long, though.

Here's my experience.  (English is my second language, grammar, punctuation.are some of my weaknesses)

Some time in August of 2018 my keyfob (the only thing i had to start my Connie) fell off my desk and into the trash can next to it.
Started looking for used ECM/ECUs with a matching keyfob, in the process i found out that my 2012 requires a 2010 thru 2014 ecm (other years may not work correctly)
Searching around the web, i found Carmo.nl i contacted them and asked a bunch of questions, and they answered them all, very patiently. (I was thinking that it was too good to be true)
I had/have some health issues, had to put this aside for a while.
After a couple of months, i found CarmoUSA and contacted Kevin thru e-mail.  He sent me a picture of the computer that i needed to send them, and to my surprise it wasnt the main ECU but instead it was the black box that is attached to the ignition switch under the handle bars (stove key?).
After i drilled the key switch away from the top brace, i threw the switch and the black box attached to it into a box and along a few papers proving that it is my bike sent them to CarmoUSA.
About 2 weeks later i received an invoice for around 360 to 380 (they charged me about $40,00 to send it all back to me)
About a week after that, i had my switch and its computer back  put it on the bike and it cranked and ran right away.
Because i did not know that there are 2 different keys to the Connies, ( A key and B key) i did not specify to CarmoUSA which key i had they sent me the wrong key. ( if you do not know the differerence between the A and B keys, please research this,  "A" keys will not fit "B" switches and "B" keys will not fit "A" switches.
I took one of the keys that CarmoUSA sent back and cut off the metal part of the key and kept the plastic piece (with the transponder or key chip) and  epoxied it to the front side of the switch right under the plastic bezel.
To start my bike, i just put a key in the switch, push it in all the way, wait a second, when the key picture comes up on the screen i turn my key to the left, or center position, and start the engine. to turn it off i turn the key to the right, pull the key out, put it in my pocket and walk away. (while admiring my wonderful Connie.

Sorry my English sucks.

Ed

Quick video I made.  https://youtu.be/dcghuAh-w04

I think they send this computers overseas, where they are opened and the original chip that receives the code from the original keyfob and verifies it, is removed and replaced with a blank one.
the red and black keys are then "electronically married" to the new chip, the computer is then re-potted and sealed, and sent back.  No need to get KDS involved.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&feature=youtu.be

You have to understand something here. Most of us have been on this forum for a LONG time. People come and go but there are a lot of folks that have been here forever. Please check the post counts and you'll see what I mean.

We've seen it time and again. Someone looses their ONE working FOB and comes here for help. Up until now there was only one thing to do and that's to bend over and pay ~$1k to get their bike back on the road.

Now here you come, a guy with 14 posts, and tell us that there's another way to recover from a lost FOB but you won't say much else. Then when someone questions you about it (admittedly, not in the best way but that's how MOB can be), you go off.

What are we to think? What would you think in our positions?

You say that you don't have anything to prove? That's true, you don't. But if you'd like to get along with everyone here and get some help when you need it, then yes, you do have something to prove...

You are 100% right,  i tried to share my knowledge as best as i could above.  My less than ideal communications skills, will probably raise more questions, i will try to answer as best as I can.

Ed

OK
I've been dealing with Kipass issues for people since 2007.

please explain, exactly what you mean by
"You will need to send them your ignition switch with the black box that is attached to it, plus $380.00"

And also tell us all, exactly how this worked out...

I need some confirmation that you actually did this... I'm not believing it at all. Sorry, but I am skeptical about it in every way.

So please allow me to go back, and explain why I was a skeptic, I was not calling you a "liar", or belittling you in any manner; I wanted clarity and confirmation...

Now, with what you have posted here, and reading the website completely, and understanding "all" of the parts involved, anyone that has lost active fobs, and has no key, or passive fob either, is at the mercy of what I explained in my prior response, #3.

BDF brought up the same thing as I was mulling over, but for clarity I'll take a moment and say a few things about the difference of "making the bike run", and "making the bike run correctly, like it did from the factory"... i.e., with a normal FOB in pocket scenario.

The company you sent the money and parts to, is no different than a foreign one that popped up a while back, in Poland; I addressed the scenario they were "proposing" as the "cure" at that time. Other than trusting sending all that stuff overseas, with no sure outcome (which was verified by someone that did just that, and ended up without his parts, charged $$$, and months later ended up buying e-bay parts).

In both instances, it's clear that they crack open the chip reader on the ignition switch..(it really is only that, a reader...) and replace a module with one that will read a "coded chip", and paired them. This is where the Red Key Black Key, you got, and the box you ended up attaching the passive chip to...   as you ignition switch was already "paired" to the bikes Kipass ECU, it didn't require a KDS.
BUT, had that module been damaged, or you simply didn't have thee stove key, it would have been more involved;  When you got the RED key, you should have placed it against the "bump" on the ignition switch, and seen if the stove knob could be actuated.. likely it would, because the RED key had a chip also (kinda weird they sent you a key that was opposite hand, since you actually sent them YOUR knob key in the first place... ) I guess you could have cut the head off that key, and glued it to the bump, and you would have had the BLACK key (which I assume also has a chip), which worked, and would turn the lock, as your new spare...
End result is:
for the money you spent, you still have no "active FOB", nor can you program one.. all you are doing is using the passive immobilizer.. to start and run the bike. If you loose your key now, you will be back to square one again. Chipped keys are easy to replace, and only run $20 with a chip, or $4 without the chip, but then, if they aren't cut to match the rest of the bikes locks, luggage, fuel tank, seat... etc.. you are still s.o.l.  which was the case the original poster here came to us with..

The only way to make the bike "see" a real pocket fob, is to do what is noted in my #3 posting. period.

By the way, the fellow that felt all insulted, when I explained the whole "Poland company", ended up spending well over $1k+ in the end, as he lost his parts to the Polish repair company, paid them a bunch of $$$, still had no running bike, and ended up "buying all the locks and parts" matched, from e-bay..for like $800 more, and then went online in a facebook page, to call azz on the "unfriendly idiots" from the COG sites, that tried to tell him the simple stuff. 

I will say this tho, if you ever need a "new ECU, or Ignition switch", you will find what I have said, to be very painfully true.
Without an active FOB and a key... you can't program another active fob, which you still don't have.

You also have an "open ignition lock" exposed to the weather, when you remove your stove key... so the result may be, "yes the bike runs", I don't dispute that... but the conditions resultant are not in my opinion, equal to a fully functioning as delivered security system, that works as it was designed.  So, paying $400+, to make the bike run, vs $875 to make a secure bike, as designed, I would say is whatever you think it's worth, either way. I ride in the rain, all the time... I know what my choice would be.
Hopefully, the company the sent you the "fixed" switch and chipped keys, goes to the extent of using "various chip codes"... but in the back of my mind, I think they would just keep coding all those "re-furbs" with the same chipset... so you may not have a "unique" chip anymore....

I do thank you for sharing that all tho, it is a viable means, if needed, someday.

I almost forgot to ask this, but I still must;

Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?

just asking.. I don't think you sent them the Kipass ECU, so I have to assume these errors will still be on dash.

I took a look and they are really throwing me with the 'red' key and the 'black' key. Especially since they are the exact same price as the active fob, $21.38 each. ?? ?? I believe Ducati has a red (master) and black (slave) keys but of course C-14 keys have no electronics in them in the first place so why two different types? They show all combinations with one red key and the rest black, just as it would work with a Ducati but that is not how the KiPass system works. They further explain that both the keys and fob have to be programmed, which again is odd. And they are calling it the 'KISS' system. ??

Anyway, it all sounds great if it works and is as it appears (a real, active fob for $21 as opposed to a 'credit card' type of fob).

Brian

If I recall, with the Duc, if you lose the red master you're screwed.

First may I suggest, Ed, that you NOT apologize for your English skills; they seem to be excellent, and certainly adequate so that any English speaker can understand you. Hey, better than some native English speakers!

What you are explaining about the work- around for your C-14 is not really addressing KiPass but instead the RFID portion of the system located in the ignition switch housing. What they provided is not the main way KiPass is supposed to work but instead the back- up system for KiPass. Now that is fine, and well and good if you are satisfied but it is not the way KiPass was intended to operate. That said, if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki. Those are somewhere around $300, with labor to code the bike to recognize them at something like $50 to $100. Once you have a working RF fob, you can just leave it in your pocket and when you press down on the main stove knob key, the system will activate (if it senses a legitimate fob within range).

Again, if you are happy with what you have then all is well and that is great.

My only other thought would be you might want to put something over the ignition switch key opening because that was not intended to be left open all the time- the original "stove knob" key (called that because it looks like a control knob from a kitchen stove) has a large diameter cone that covers the ignition switch and protects it from the elements.

This also explains the $21.XX cost for a 'fob' because it is not the RF fob pictured but instead either a chipped key or a 'credit card' fob that will not work unless held against the ignition switch housing. So for those who have lost all fobs, this may be a workable solution but not a complete system as came with the bike originally; that will cost another ~$400 or so for an RF fob and coding the bike to recognize it, which will bring the price up to more than $800.

I am not knocking this service, merely pointing out that it is not the same as getting a new ECU and two new RF fobs. To get to that point would be close to the same cost as buying original equipment and installing it on the bike.

Thanks for your detailed explanation of this service, and thanks for pointing it out in the first place- I am sure many of us, including myself, did not know this service was even available.

Brian

Here's my experience.  (English is my second language, grammar, punctuation.are some of my weaknesses)

Some time in August of 2018 my keyfob (the only thing i had to start my Connie) fell off my desk and into the trash can next to it.
Started looking for used ECM/ECUs with a matching keyfob, in the process i found out that my 2012 requires a 2010 thru 2014 ecm (other years may not work correctly)
Searching around the web, i found Carmo.nl i contacted them and asked a bunch of questions, and they answered them all, very patiently. (I was thinking that it was too good to be true)
I had/have some health issues, had to put this aside for a while.
After a couple of months, i found CarmoUSA and contacted Kevin thru e-mail.  He sent me a picture of the computer that i needed to send them, and to my surprise it wasnt the main ECU but instead it was the black box that is attached to the ignition switch under the handle bars (stove key?).
After i drilled the key switch away from the top brace, i threw the switch and the black box attached to it into a box and along a few papers proving that it is my bike sent them to CarmoUSA.
About 2 weeks later i received an invoice for around 360 to 380 (they charged me about $40,00 to send it all back to me)
About a week after that, i had my switch and its computer back  put it on the bike and it cranked and ran right away.
Because i did not know that there are 2 different keys to the Connies, ( A key and B key) i did not specify to CarmoUSA which key i had they sent me the wrong key. ( if you do not know the differerence between the A and B keys, please research this,  "A" keys will not fit "B" switches and "B" keys will not fit "A" switches.
I took one of the keys that CarmoUSA sent back and cut off the metal part of the key and kept the plastic piece (with the transponder or key chip) and  epoxied it to the front side of the switch right under the plastic bezel.
To start my bike, i just put a key in the switch, push it in all the way, wait a second, when the key picture comes up on the screen i turn my key to the left, or center position, and start the engine. to turn it off i turn the key to the right, pull the key out, put it in my pocket and walk away. (while admiring my wonderful Connie.

Sorry my English sucks.

Ed

If I recall, with the Duc, if you lose the red master you're screwed.

well, as always, I have a hard time with some vendors that are versed in one bikes needs, and totally ignorant in different bikes.. If I want something for my Kawasaki, I expect the vendor to be versed enough in the "lingo" and present "systems" of my bike, to refer to each part intelligently, and call them by the correct factory names, and descriptions...

and when they don't... I simply won't do business with them..

Kinda like seeing the old famous "Muzzy License plate/fender eliminator" on their website... with the C14's bikes bags installed on the opposite sides / backwards, of where they should have been... and they kept that picture there for 4 years, just to sell "product"...
(then, they dissipated into ...oblivion...poof)

What sent off "red flags" in my mind was the whole "red" and "black" key thing, the photo of the WAY underpriced active fob on their site, and the photo of what appeared to be the main ECU on the site.

I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one, and an open-to-the-elements ignition key switch.  But the inconsistencies in the photos, the description, and the long turnaround time would not make me comfortable.  Perhaps they were just lazy in their descriptions and such.  At worst, it will scare away people like me, who have enough knowledge of the system to be dangerous.  At best, the resulting "product" is being somewhat mis-represented.

Further, unless they are using a longer-range passive RFID reader, the range is not enough to reach to the "replacement" passive key when it sits in the ignition switch.  I know this, because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.  The range is probably less than 1cm.  So how are you supposed to use it properly with their hacked setup?  Take one key and put it in the ignition, take a SECOND passive key and hold it to the front of the ignition and while doing that press in the first key so you can then turn it?  Every time?  Yuck.

No, i do not have the OEM fob,  nor do i have a $7000.00 "brick" sitting in my garage.  As far as i know, (all the research i did) the red key can be "cloned" (i will try this at my local locksmith and i will report back as time allows.)

As far as the lock being exposed to the weather, it should not be much of an issue with routine maintenance.  None of the previous bikes that i have owned had a problem with  rain or hand washes.

Kipass is not a foolproof system,  someone that wants a Connie bad enough, will take it.  As I just proved, this bikes can be made to run just as the did from factory without the active/passive modules.

I tried to explain that i did not specify which key i had, unfortunately i was sent the wrong type key and it will not fit in my switch.  My solution to this problem was to break-off the metal part of the black key and attach it to the ignition switch/KIPASS computer. (i wanted to ride right away) i did not want to send everything back so they code the right type key for my bike.

I am aware of the fact that my "approach" does away with the extra security feature that KIPASS provides.  The bike is insured and watched by two Pitbulls and a well armed, and highly trained combat veteran that requires daily medication to remain somewhat calm. LOL

Ed

I almost forgot to ask this, but I still must;

Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?

just asking.. I don't think you sent them the Kipass ECU, so I have to assume these errors will still be on dash.

The only message i have seen since i put it back together (about 500+ miles ago) is for the rear TPMS low battery, when its colder in the morning i get a message for both tires.  NO other codes/messages present

In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:

1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

If the ignition can be turned on then a new Kaw active fob can be registered to the KIPASS ECU.


2. In reply 28 MOB asked: Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?  The answer will obviously be: no.  Maxtog alluded to this where he says: ....... because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.

The reason Maztog and chile62 didn't get the "lost transponder" warning is not because he (Max) had the active fob in his pocket, but because KIPASS does not 'look' for the active fob if the bike has been started using a passive fob. 

Thanks for reporting your experience on all this Chile62 - good work.        to all. 

In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:

1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

If the ignition can be turned on then a new Kaw active fob can be registered to the KIPASS ECU.


2. In reply 28 MOB asked: Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?  The answer will obviously be: no.  Maxtog alluded to this where he says: ....... because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.

The reason Maztog and chile62 didn't get the "lost transponder" warning is not because he (Max) had the active fob in his pocket, but because KIPASS does not 'look' for the active fob if the bike has been started using a passive fob. 

Thanks for reporting your experience on all this Chile62 - good work.        to all.

Thank you for clarifying this.

Once again, here is the short video i made this afternoon (my first link didnt work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&t=19s

In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:  1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

Well, that is a good clarification, and an option I completely forgot about.  Of course, that ability is not included in the service.  I bet the dealer charges mad $ for that (like they do for most everything).

Once again, here is the short video i made this afternoon (my first link didnt work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&t=19s

Nice video.  Plus, you correctly pronounce "Concours", something that seemingly half the people out there can't do    (Hint to those people, it doesn't sound like something in an airport).

I know I would not be happy with that outcome (essentially defeating KIPASS), but it is nice to have options, especially for those desperate to get it working on a budget.  We are likely to see much more of this in the future as the Concours 14 gets older and older and more used ones are being sold with only a single fob that then gets lost and the new owner has no idea just how dangerous it is to not have a spare fob.