Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: jbirdnc on October 22, 2014, 11:45:53 AM
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Read a post where a member had a key with RFID chip programed with fob code to start bike. Then he broke the metal key from plastic housing with chip. Can anyone help me find the post.
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I cannot help you find the post but am watching this thread with baited breath....
Brian
Read a post where a member had a key with RFID chip programed with fob code to start bike. Then he broke the metal key from plastic housing with chip. Can anyone help me find the post.
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Use some mouthwash, why don't you!
This one?
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12492.msg152468#msg152468 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12492.msg152468#msg152468)
It didn't work, though.
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Just because it did not work last time does not mean it won't work this time! Don't be so negative, Jim!
:rotflmao:
Breath still baited....
And by the way, we have not had a KiPass thread in a long time now that I think about it for a moment....
Brian
Use some mouthwash, why don't you!
This one?
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12492.msg152468#msg152468 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12492.msg152468#msg152468)
It didn't work, though.
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Just because it did not work last time does not mean it won't work this time! Don't be so negative, Jim!
:rotflmao:
Breath still baited....
And by the way, we have not had a KiPass thread in a long time now that I think about it for a moment....
Brian
+1 ;D
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+2 :stirpot:
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I cannot help you find the post but am watching this thread with baited breath....
Brian
Use some mouthwash, why don't you!
Yep, mouse catching season will soon be upon us! Let us know how that breath thing works out!
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I went by the local ACE today...they could not read any sort of RFID from my active fob. I may try again with the passive fob...placed it on their reader at all different angles, but no reading resulted. ACE explained that without an RFID reading, he could do nothing for me.
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Already got one of the little rascals. And he didn't like the new- fangled trap either. So far, not a single mouse has fallen for that thing; I either have mice with poor taste or the new trap is just not all that great.
Brian
Yep, mouse catching season will soon be upon us! Let us know how that breath thing works out!
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The fob that has the battery is also an RFID fob- that is what works when the battery dies. But nothing wrong with trying the RFID fob either.
Brian
I went by the local ACE today...they could not read any sort of RFID from my active fob. I may try again with the passive fob...placed it on their reader at all different angles, but no reading resulted. ACE explained that without an RFID reading, he could do nothing for me.
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I went by the local ACE today...they could not read any sort of RFID from my active fob. I may try again with the passive fob...placed it on their reader at all different angles, but no reading resulted. ACE explained that without an RFID reading, he could do nothing for me.
That isn't surprising. The system that Kawasaki uses is fairly obscure and probably not used in any cars and I bet those systems are designed mostly for car keys. One would think the technology would be similar enough, but who knows. If you do find someplace that can do it, I bet a lot of us would be interested... can't hurt to have yet another spare and without paying a dealer extortion fee.
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That isn't surprising. The system that Kawasaki uses is fairly obscure and probably not used in any cars and I bet those systems are designed mostly for car keys. One would think the technology would be similar enough, but who knows. If you do find someplace that can do it, I bet a lot of us would be interested... can't hurt to have yet another spare and without paying a dealer extortion fee.
Seems to be similar to my wife's 2014 Ford Escape. If the battery on the FOB runs low, you hold it directly up to the start button.
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Seems to be similar to my wife's 2014 Ford Escape. If the battery on the FOB runs low, you hold it directly up to the start button.
And my 2009 Infiniti G37S, which also has both active and passive RFID in the fob. But the encoding, protocols, frequencies, and chips used can vary wildly, which is why I was saying it is possible those systems in stores might not read it.
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And my 2009 Infiniti G37S, which also has both active and passive RFID in the fob. But the encoding, protocols, frequencies, and chips used can vary wildly, which is why I was saying it is possible those systems in stores might not read it.
Agreed. I wouldn't expect any of that to match.
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That isn't surprising. The system that Kawasaki uses is fairly obscure and probably not used in any cars and I bet those systems are designed mostly for car keys. One would think the technology would be similar enough, but who knows. If you do find someplace that can do it, I bet a lot of us would be interested... can't hurt to have yet another spare and without paying a dealer extortion fee.
I was hopeful, only because of rumors that someone had actually done this for his C14. There's even a You Tube video of it; it has even been cited on certain forums. IIRC, this chap also used ACE Hardware to read the RFID, and supply him with a "Ford truck" key that produced the same RF as his fob. My conclusion: either this was BS, or that lad's ACE is smarter than my ACE.
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But if you had to guess, which one of those two choices would you think most likely?
;) :D
Brian
I was hopeful, only because of rumors that someone had actually done this for his C14. There's even a You Tube video of it; it has even been cited on certain forums. IIRC, this chap also used ACE Hardware to read the RFID, and supply him with a "Ford truck" key that produced the same RF as his fob. My conclusion: either this was BS, or that lad's ACE is smarter than my ACE.
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I do not think that is correct- the system Kawasaki uses is Mitsubishi's MISTY system, which was developed for and predominantly used on cars. In fact, I believe Kawasaki is getting nothing but the, oh, let's call it 'run off' of the auto industry and is simply using what is available and inexpensive because there have been (and will be) millions of cars to pay for the R&D of the system in the first place.
And more power to whomever can get the Ford (or whichever mfg's parts) to work but really, what terrible fees are we avoiding? $35 for an RFID fob and what, $45 to code the bike to recognize it? And how many of these will the average, or even extremely careless C-14 owner need- 2? Three? Three seems like a lot of fobs to me, especially when added to at least one, and far, far more often two that come with the bike in the first place.
We've been through this 208,508,962,007 time by my count and it comes out the same way: KiPass is robust, reliable and generally works extremely well. Yes, the activation switch does occasionally stick but there are easy, cheap (IMO) and easy fixes guaranteed to work around that one. After that, it is basically owner carelessness and / or ignorance that causes the small amount of grief associated with this system, is it not?
At the end of the year, after we pay for the portion of the bike we used (devaluation), fuel, tires, general maintenance, insurance and city water to wash the bike, I think the cost of KiPass has long since disappeared into the ether. We would be far better off worrying about tire life IMO- at least we might get a little return on that attention (longer tire life through proper inflation, carrying what is needed to repair a puncture- something actually likely to happen, etc.).
There we go- my Fall sermon on KiPass. Remember, you read it here first folks! :o ;D
Brian
That isn't surprising. The system that Kawasaki uses is fairly obscure and probably not used in any cars and I bet those systems are designed mostly for car keys. One would think the technology would be similar enough, but who knows. If you do find someplace that can do it, I bet a lot of us would be interested... can't hurt to have yet another spare and without paying a dealer extortion fee.
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I do not think that is correct- the system Kawasaki uses is Mitsubishi's MISTY system, which was developed for and predominantly used on cars.
Actually, I believe MISTY was just the Mitsubishi encryption algorithm used in the system, which has been used in several categories of devices. Maybe they used the name for multiple branding? In any case, I am not aware of the actual system (software, radios, same frequencies, etc) that is being used by Kawasaki being used in any car. Doesn't mean it isn't, but I have never been able to find anything showing it has been. It might be all "hush hush" too from a security standpoint.
There we go- my Fall sermon on KiPass. Remember, you read it here first folks! :o ;D
Well, we all love KiPass threads!
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Read a post where a member had a key with RFID chip programed with fob code to start bike. Then he broke the metal key from plastic housing with chip. Can anyone help me find the post.
I believe you're referring to this video? I dunno if it's real or not...I think Fred Harmon was saying it's possible, or he was going to look into it or something, so it must be true.
Concours 14 kipass spare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM#ws)
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I believe you're referring to this video? I dunno if it's real or not...I think Fred Harmon was saying it's possible, or he was going to look into it or something, so it must be true.
Concours 14 kipass spare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM#ws)
First time I've seen this. He doesn't say which kind of key he bought at the hardware store. Critical information I would think.
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First time I've seen this. He doesn't say which kind of key he bought at the hardware store. Critical information I would think.
He said it was a Ford truck key didn't he? Or that's what was mentioned in the original thread?
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He said it was a Ford truck key didn't he? Or that's what was mentioned in the original thread?
I recall "Ford" somewhere as well. No matter, though. I think the whole thing may be BS anyhow...well, at least the key dude at my ACE hardware says it's BS.
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Ford? Why couldn't it have been a Dodge! Oh the humanity!
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No wonder nobody can get it to work.
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I do not think we have even given this a fair shot until we test at least, say, 50% of all car makes. What if a Mercedes Benz key works? How about a Ducati (not a car brand I know but I want to be thorough)? Perhaps Joseph Lucas has something that would work in a pinch? Seeing as a new Kawasaki fob is $35, I think we should really make an effort here to find an alternate(s)! Even if it is more expensive, it would still be a buy! "We will spare no expense in saving money." Words to live by.... :o ;)
Brian
No wonder nobody can get it to work.
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Here's a webpage with a search option for locksmiths with programming/cloning capabilities:
http://www.keylessride.com/company/locations.asp (http://www.keylessride.com/company/locations.asp)
I don't know poop about all this, but if you search the interweb, you'll find people with all kinds of different vehicles having keys cloned at select ACE Hardware stores and select locksmiths.
I suppose it's like anything else...you'd have to find one that knows what they're doing....almost like looking for a competent Kawasaki dealer eh?...lol.
In the end, like BDF has mentioned above...you can buy the correct OEM spare FOB for a little over $30, and know it will work. A dealer can install/program the bike, or one of us that has a KDS kit...there are a few C14 folks with them now in various corners on North America...lol.
Rem 8)
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I call bullsh*t on the video, go to the original on youtube and he doesn't answer any viewer questions.
What piqued my interest on this was basically, what if you could program a key transponder (like the typical $30 ebay option), sit on the bike and press one of the buttons, and turn the key to start the bike? That would be very cool. Even if the transponder key option doesn't work remotely/actively, it would still be far less than half of the price of a backup passive transponder and programming (my dealership wanted a full hour for programming) and it leaves a slot open for programming.
Local locksmith here was unsuccessful in an attempt to even identify the chip in my passive transponder and active FOB. They said it's theoretically possible to pull the RFID info from the FOB, but the chips being used don't come up on the scans (which means it's unscannable, too rare to be read on a normal system, or a combination).
I posted on a couple facebook forums, and no one of thousands has ever DONE this, they just "know of someone who did it" or "know a guy whose cousin's mailman's brother's friend's sister's next door neighbor did it."
Looks like an urban legend, unfortunately
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But that just dismisses the entire point of KiPass, which is to mesmerize, transfix, awe (or is that aw as in 'aw shucks, my bike won't start'?) and generally be a legend in its own time! Of course if you are going to look at this logically or realistically, what you say is accurate enough but what about the splendor? What about the rapture? How about the extreme emotions KiPass evokes? Surely you are not going to try and dismiss all of that, are you?
KiPass is the punch- line to a joke no one has even heard. KiPass is legend. KiPass is.... well, one must sit in the lotus position and repeat 'Uhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm' over and over again to really become one with KiPass.
If I could find the person(s) who put this thing on a C-14, I would bow down before him / her as that person(s) is truly divine. I have my moments of pretty good humor but never could I have come up with anything as fiendishly ingenious as KiPass.
UHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM.....
;) ::)
Brian
I call bullsh*t on the video, go to the original on youtube and he doesn't answer any viewer questions.
<snip>
I posted on a couple facebook forums, and no one of thousands has ever DONE this, they just "know of someone who did it" or "know a guy whose cousin's mailman's brother's friend's sister's next door neighbor did it."
Looks like an urban legend, unfortunately
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But that just dismisses the entire point of KiPass, which is to mesmerize, transfix, awe (or is that aw as in 'aw shucks, my bike won't start'?) and generally be a legend in its own time! Of course if you are going to look at this logically or realistically, what you say is accurate enough but what about the splendor? What about the rapture? How about the extreme emotions KiPass evokes? Surely you are not going to try and dismiss all of that, are you?
KiPass is the punch- line to a joke no one has even heard. KiPass is legend. KiPass is.... well, one must sit in the lotus position and repeat 'Uhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm' over and over again to really become one with KiPass.
If I could find the person(s) who put this thing on a C-14, I would bow down before him / her as that person(s) is truly divine. I have my moments of pretty good humor but never could I have come up with anything as fiendishly ingenious as KiPass.
UHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM.....
;) ::)
Brian
I can feel the power of KIPASS...
(http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/star-wars-episode-7-emperor-palpatine.jpg)
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Is that what happened to Bob?
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Is that what happened to Bob?
Got a promotion?
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Bob? Bob who? Who is this Bob of whom you speak?
Has he fallen into the KiPass fold?
Brian
Is that what happened to Bob?
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I believe he fell out of the fold. Nice enough guy, but KIPASS got the better of him.
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We have an automotive locksmith we use at our repair shop. I took my FOB's to him, he said the active FOB would be a challenge to clone but he could clone the spare FOB easily. The cost would be $60 for the key and $20 for the labor, so I bought the Kawasaki passive FOB online instead. My dealer could not figure out how to program the FOB (they were trying to use the active fob program) so they told me I needed the ID number for the fob and I would need to order another one. The place I ordered my fob online sent me another one for free and the dealer ordered me one too. They still could not figure it out so they let me do it myself and show them how to do it (for free). By the time we were done I had 3 new passive fob's programmed to the bike for $60 parts and labor. It took 3 trips to the dealer though.
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My dealer could not figure out how to program the FOB (they were trying to use the active fob program) so they told me I needed the ID number for the fob and I would need to order another one. The place I ordered my fob online sent me another one for free and the dealer ordered me one too. They still could not figure it out so they let me do it myself and show them how to do it (for free). By the time we were done I had 3 new passive fob's programmed to the bike for $60 parts and labor. It took 3 trips to the dealer though.
Haha...I've been through this very situation myself. The problem is, they try to program the spare FOB like an active FOB, and it just doesn't work that way. It helps if the dealer knows that the spare FOB is actually called the "Immobilizer Key" in the KIPass software;).
Rem
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We have an automotive locksmith we use at our repair shop. I took my FOB's to him, he said the active FOB would be a challenge to clone but he could clone the spare FOB easily. The cost would be $60 for the key and $20 for the labor, so I bought the Kawasaki passive FOB online instead. My dealer could not figure out how to program the FOB (they were trying to use the active fob program) so they told me I needed the ID number for the fob and I would need to order another one. The place I ordered my fob online sent me another one for free and the dealer ordered me one too. They still could not figure it out so they let me do it myself and show them how to do it (for free). By the time we were done I had 3 new passive fob's programmed to the bike for $60 parts and labor. It took 3 trips to the dealer though.
Soooo.
You did the programming yourself and then showed them how to do it?
Who paid who? ;)
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Soooo.
You did the programming yourself and then showed them how to do it?
Who paid who? ;)
It is a great dealership! Everything they have tried to do for me they have f**ked up and I end up getting the repair for free.
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I've had my bike for a bit over 1 month... yep already lost the active FOB.
I went to my friendly Locksmith and took them my passive fob and She made me a copy of my passive FOB
She used a JMA key from a 1999-2004 F150 TPX2FO-150D.P
she told me the blanks weren't cheap but she said she would do this for $40 +tax. She even trimmed the blade portion off of the key so it's now just a FOB.
I ask and she will do the same for you... to save on shipping I would include a Self Addressed envelope for the return mail w/insurance)
From my understanding, when you have a key cloned, it doesn't take up one of the limited memory spaces on the KiPass system. Message me if you have questions.
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Thanks for posting. We've heard rumors of this being possible but no concrete confirmation.
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Good post. That looks like a path to get a new passive fob without having to have the bike programmed to recognize the new fob (because the new fob is emulating the original fob).
Seeing as that is a commercial product, I would think at least some other locksmiths could do the same thing, and perhaps be local to other C-14 owners. ??
By the way, the memory slots for the passive side of KiPass are re-writable so getting a new passive fob and having the bike coded to use it does not 'burn' or waste a memory slot. The RF side of KiPass however does use non re- writable slots and there are only six of them provide for the life of the KiPass ECU although I think it unlikely any C-14 or any motorcycle in the future would ever use all six slots and then lose all six fobs....
Brian
I've had my bike for a bit over 1 month... yep already lost the active FOB.
I went to my friendly Locksmith and took them my passive fob and She made me a copy of my passive FOB
She used a JMA key from a 1999-2004 F150 TPX2FO-150D.P
she told me the blanks weren't cheap but she said she would do this for $40 +tax. She even trimmed the blade portion off of the key so it's now just a FOB.
I ask and she will do the same for you... to save on shipping I would include a Self Addressed envelope for the return mail w/insurance)
From my understanding, when you have a key cloned, it doesn't take up one of the limited memory spaces on the KiPass system. Message me if you have questions.
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What exactly do you have to do to start the bike now?
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I've had my bike for a bit over 1 month... yep already lost the active FOB.
I went to my friendly Locksmith and took them my passive fob and She made me a copy of my passive FOB
She used a JMA key from a 1999-2004 F150 TPX2FO-150D.P
she told me the blanks weren't cheap but she said she would do this for $40 +tax. She even trimmed the blade portion off of the key so it's now just a FOB.
I ask and she will do the same for you... to save on shipping I would include a Self Addressed envelope for the return mail w/insurance)
From my understanding, when you have a key cloned, it doesn't take up one of the limited memory spaces on the KiPass system. Message me if you have questions.
Good info, thanks for posting. Oh and BTW.. WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!
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What exactly do you have to do to start the bike now?
With a passive fob? He has to hold the passive fob on the special place at the 12 O'clock position near the stovepipe key, then press down the stovepipe key and turn it, then press the starter button. It is actually very easy, but a bit annoying at first, since you have to get the passive fob at just the right place and there is no indication if it is right or wrong until you press the stovepipe and it either works or doesn't. With practice, one should be able to do it very quickly every time.
Since the active fobs also contain passive chips too, the procedure is EXACTLY the same for the active fob if the active fob battery is weak or dead, or the active part is defective, or there is some type of unusual, very strong RF interference in the area.
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I know that, Max. Just wanted to see if anything is different. If not, it's just another passive fob in a different incarnation.
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The fob I had made has the area on it where you can tell where the chip is ... you have to hold this side down or it won't read just like the factory backup fob. See attachment.
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Thanks.
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I know that, Max.
Just answering the question!!
Just wanted to see if anything is different. If not, it's just another passive fob in a different incarnation.
Yep, nothing new to see, move along... move along...
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Be carful as you pass...
move along... move along...
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Sorry about the Thread resurrection, but I figured another success story was in order.
Took my passive fob to the ACE hardware where they had the Itool scanning device.
First I explained what I wanted and they looked at me like I was crazy (we cant cut a ford key for a Kawasaki). after explaining it a couple more times they agreed to put the fob on the detector.
It recognized the fob right away and asked for information. I told them to list it as a 2004 ford f-150.
I tool gave them a couple of choices and I got a rather expensive Ford key. Put the Ford key in the detector/writer device and a minute later its done.
Took it back to the house (where my 2011 connie is) left both the active and passive factory fobs in the house and proceeded to the garage with my new "Ford" key.
Placed it up against the KIPASS detector and.........SUCCESS. It DOES work, allowed me to turn key and start the bike.
If they have the red itool device to detect/write RFID and a key to a FORD f-150, they CAN clone the rfid, you just may have to walk them through it.
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2 things:
1) I love the idea, but how am I supposed to walk them through it when I don't fully understand it?
2) Is there a PDF that explains the active and passive FOB system and ECU etc? I have the service manual, is it all in there? There seems to be a lot of fob knowledge, I would to gain it, not sure how to do that without looking through MANY KIPASS threads.
I ask because I took my bike in last night to get the valve cover leak fixed and stopped halfway there to get gas. 40 mile ride maybe, stopped at 20. No problems at home, but when I stopped to gas up and check the oil, as soon as I fired up, I got "LOW TRANSPONDER BATTERY". By the time I got to the town the dealership was in, it was alternating between "Low battery" and "NO transponder", just that quick the freakin battery died!
I didn't want to take it to the dealer with a dead fob battery, I vaguely remembered that it had the passive thing but honestly have no idea if the dealer knew of that. So I stopped at Walmart and got a new battery, problem solved.
I will be honest, I don't like not understanding something that could potentially strand me 6 states from home. I know Brian and others love it but they have the full system understanding and using that knowledge, they could recover from various failure scenarios. I don't, that's why I want to read the system spec or whatever exists.
THANKS!!
EDIT: Google is my friend.
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours.html (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours.html)
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Everything you need to know to operate the bike with a fob that has a dead battery is in the owner's manual and is less than a page long. Very simple really. And a dead fob battery is not really a 'failure' of any kind but an expected condition which Kawasaki provided a very simple way to start and use the bike.
I suggest everyone take a very few minutes, look at the manual (I believe it is available on- line if you do not have the paper version), and learn the very simple step to start your C-14 with a dead fob battery. Once you see how easy it is there is no need to fear it happening at all.
Brian
2 things:
1) I love the idea, but how am I supposed to walk them through it when I don't fully understand it?
2) Is there a PDF that explains the active and passive FOB system and ECU etc? I have the service manual, is it all in there? There seems to be a lot of fob knowledge, I would to gain it, not sure how to do that without looking through MANY KIPASS threads.
I ask because I took my bike in last night to get the valve cover leak fixed and stopped halfway there to get gas. 40 mile ride maybe, stopped at 20. No problems at home, but when I stopped to gas up and check the oil, as soon as I fired up, I got "LOW TRANSPONDER BATTERY". By the time I got to the town the dealership was in, it was alternating between "Low battery" and "NO transponder", just that quick the freakin battery died!
I didn't want to take it to the dealer with a dead fob battery, I vaguely remembered that it had the passive thing but honestly have no idea if the dealer knew of that. So I stopped at Walmart and got a new battery, problem solved.
I will be honest, I don't like not understanding something that could potentially strand me 6 states from home. I know Brian and others love it but they have the full system understanding and using that knowledge, they could recover from various failure scenarios. I don't, that's why I want to read the system spec or whatever exists.
THANKS!!
EDIT: Google is my friend.
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours.html (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours.html)
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Yeah, I was unnecessarily paranoid last night when the battery was dying, I thought there was a passive method (which I have done with the min/spare fob just to test) but I wasn't 100% sure. Now I am after googling it and reading various things. I thought it was just an easy way to start the bike, it's actually theft prevention.
Learning the ways of KIPASS, I am.
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The user's manual is certainly NOT the best written document out there, but it does explain how to use the active FOB as a passive FOB (if the FOB battery is dead). I suppose it could be more confusing. So it is safe to say: You will never be stranded due to a battery dying in an active FOB.... unless you forget how to use it as a passive one :)
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Yeah but the method is so simple that even Japenglish cannot hide its use, at least IMO.
Step 1: remove the key from the fob.
Step 2: hold fob over boss on front of ignition switch housing, putting boss in slot left after removing key.
Step 3: Push key, start bike.
Step 4: Revel in the glory that is KiPass.....
Brian
The user's manual is certainly NOT the best written document out there, but it does explain how to use the active FOB as a passive FOB (if the FOB battery is dead). I suppose it could be more confusing. So it is safe to say: You will never be stranded due to a battery dying in an active FOB.... unless you forget how to use it as a passive one :)