Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Awaz on November 30, 2016, 03:34:56 PM
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Second time my bike puked out antifreeze from one of those overflow hoses in the bottom. The first time I did it, I thought it was because a plastic 'bottle' looking thingie was cracked. But no, it was puking from the overflow hoses. It did not puke out entirely, the reservoir still has antifreeze just below the low level. So not sure why it likes to puke whatever is in the radiator (or engine block??). I have not filled it back up and have not experienced any overheating issues. I have this bike for over six years now and it did this within the last year AFTER my first valve check (which btw, I was NOT happy about whatsoever!! - long story there - just stay away from Powersports in Springfield, IL).
Just thought I ask and see if you guys got any bit of advice/thoughts/suggestions/conspiracy theory!
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Haven't heard of that before. When last did you change/flush coolant? Seems unlikely to be a blockage or hot spot, but who knows? Crimped hose seems unlikely too. Are you sure it is coolant and not just water/condensation?
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Fit a new rad cap. If problem persists then you have a deeper issue.
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The reservoir should be completely full before it pushes coolant out of the overflow line. Are you sure it isn't coming from the water pump weep hole?
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Mine has done it a couple of times over the years. Checked the res, watched the temp gauge and suffered no ongoing problems.
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Fit a new rad cap. If problem persists then you have a deeper issue.
I agree. The spring gets weak so even though your are not overheating it will blow off when it should not be because it cannot hold pressure.
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First question, define puke: a tablespoon, a coffee cup full, a gallon.... ?
Basically, nothing on the bike should leak anti- freeze, ever. That is what the overflow (expansion tank) bottle is for, to absorb any excess coolant pushed out of the <normally> sealed system and be caught by the overflow tank, and then sucked (Easy Boys!) back in due to the vacuum in the system caused by it cooling down. The only thing that should change is the level in the overflow tank, and that should not change by much and always return to the same level when the bike is back at the same temperature (a bit lower when cold, a tad higher when hot).
Any chance a tube was swapped out and going to the wrong place when the valves were checked? It is possible that someone swapped a tube that should go to the overflow bottle and left it hanging on the left side of the bike: that would explain a couple of small 'overflows' that the bottle should have caught but was not properly plumbed? The place to start is probably to trace where the tube that leaked the fluid goes to on the bike....
After that, as others have said, if it is not something incredibly simple such as a tube that fell off a fitting, possibly a cracked rubber tube (it happens) between the radiator and overflow tank, then the system will need further inspection and should probably get a pressure test at a reputable dealer. These bikes just do not normally have any cooling issues and have proven to be quite robust regarding cooling and NOT overheating normally.
Brian
Second time my bike puked out antifreeze from one of those overflow hoses in the bottom. The first time I did it, I thought it was because a plastic 'bottle' looking thingie was cracked. But no, it was puking from the overflow hoses. It did not puke out entirely, the reservoir still has antifreeze just below the low level. So not sure why it likes to puke whatever is in the radiator (or engine block??). I have not filled it back up and have not experienced any overheating issues. I have this bike for over six years now and it did this within the last year AFTER my first valve check (which btw, I was NOT happy about whatsoever!! - long story there - just stay away from Powersports in Springfield, IL).
Just thought I ask and see if you guys got any bit of advice/thoughts/suggestions/conspiracy theory!
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Here is another theory. You have a blown head gasket where exhaust gas is escaping into the coolant system. No oil in coolant and no coolant in oil but just exhaust gas in coolant. I admit it is very difficult to destroy a head gasket with just a valve adjustment but mechanics never fail to surprise me!
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I agree, but I don't think I've heard of a head gasket going on these engines.....not that it can't happen of course.
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First question, define puke: a tablespoon, a coffee cup full, a gallon.... ?
Basically, nothing on the bike should leak anti- freeze, ever. That is what the overflow (expansion tank) bottle is for, to absorb any excess coolant pushed out of the <normally> sealed system and be caught by the overflow tank, and then sucked (Easy Boys!) back in due to the vacuum in the system caused by it cooling down. The only thing that should change is the level in the overflow tank, and that should not change by much and always return to the same level when the bike is back at the same temperature (a bit lower when cold, a tad higher when hot).
Any chance a tube was swapped out and going to the wrong place when the valves were checked? It is possible that someone swapped a tube that should go to the overflow bottle and left it hanging on the left side of the bike: that would explain a couple of small 'overflows' that the bottle should have caught but was not properly plumbed? The place to start is probably to trace where the tube that leaked the fluid goes to on the bike....
After that, as others have said, if it is not something incredibly simple such as a tube that fell off a fitting, possibly a cracked rubber tube (it happens) between the radiator and overflow tank, then the system will need further inspection and should probably get a pressure test at a reputable dealer. These bikes just do not normally have any cooling issues and have proven to be quite robust regarding cooling and NOT overheating normally.
Brian
I agree with Brian- I remember my bike left a couple of drops on the floor when I first got it. Turned out to be a loose tube to the overfill tank- took all of 1 minute to fix. That is the extent of my problems after 7 years and 75000 miles.. ;D
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I agree, but I don't think I've heard of a head gasket going on these engines.....
I have never heard of it either. And that couldn't be linked to a valve adjustment anyway. It is probably something simple...
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Define puke: I would say a pint or two. It gushed out of the tube for about 30 sec or so.
Coolant has not been flushed.
I want to also note that we were at a high elevation (bluff at Perremarquette, Grafton, IL). Not sure if that makes a difference.
I am a bit confused with the overflow tank. Is the tank/reservoir that you can see antifreeze level? Or is it the small plastic bottle tucked away under the bike?
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It's on the lower left side of the bike. You should be able to see it through the gills. I used a magic marker to highlight the level so I could see it better. Did you notice the temp gauge at the time?
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Define puke: I would say a pint or two. It gushed out of the tube for about 30 sec or so.
Coolant has not been flushed.
I want to also note that we were at a high elevation (bluff at Perremarquette, Grafton, IL). Not sure if that makes a difference.
I am a bit confused with the overflow tank. Is the tank/reservoir that you can see antifreeze level? Or is it the small plastic bottle tucked away under the bike?
That's not high elevation. And shouldn't make any difference. What Brian said.
This is starting to be high elevation:
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/263452_1406666823429_5186462_n.jpg?oh=940a27a66d79e086ade15051ca20582e&oe=58B234C1)
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I want to also note that we were at a high elevation (bluff at Perremarquette, Grafton, IL).
That's < 2000 feet. I rode mine to the top of Mt Evans, 14k feet, where neither it or I could breathe. <2000 feet is not remotely high altitude.
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Heck, that's nothing. I rode my bike to the Moon and back without any issues.
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Coolant has not been flushed.
Probably time for that, in any case.
I am a bit confused with the overflow tank. Is the tank/reservoir that you can see antifreeze level? Or is it the small plastic bottle tucked away under the bike?
The bigger one. The tiny one is a runoff collector, not related to the cooling system. It is normally just empty.
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OK, well if it dumped a pint or more on two different occasions, I would say two things: one is that the bike is now low on coolant (a quart is kind of a lot to lose) and the second is that something is significantly wrong. That is a LOT of coolant to lose, especially twice, and there is no scenario that I can think of that would explain it being normal in any way.
It could be something simple and easy such as a split tube or a tube that fell off a tank but frankly, the bike just should not spit out a pint or more of fluid- especially not twice without being refilled.
Very quick overview: when coolant is heated, it expands and so then of course, contracts when it cools. The highest point in any vehicle's cooling system should be the radiator cap, and so if the radiator (and entire cooling system of course) is filled right to the top then when the system is heated, there will be 'too much' coolant and it will overflow. In the olden' days, this would just spill out of the radiator's overflow tube onto the ground. Radiator caps have a vacuum vent so that when the system cools, they allow air to fill the radiator and cooling system to prevent a vacuum. After a couple of cold / hot / cold cycles, the radiator has purged all excess and the system should then run without purging any more fluid and yet be filled <pretty close> but not quite full to the top.
Modern systems add an overflow bottle or recovery tank (just different terms for the same thing) and capture that fluid that is purged from the radiator. There are now two hoses to the overflow tank: one comes from the radiator overflow and goes to the bottom of the overflow tank, and the other is a vent from the top of the overflow tank. When the system expands, coolant will flow from the radiator to the overflow tank but cannot leak out anywhere until and unless the overflow tank is completely full; otherwise, the level of the overflow tank just rises a bit. Then when the system cools down and a vacuum is created, the radiator cap applies this vacuum back to the overflow tank and draws some fluid back into the radiator. So, there is no normal circumstance where a coolant system will leak unless the coolant bottle is full.
I would suggest having someone (your or a competent mechanic as you wish) to look at the hoses on the bike, especially the one running from the radiator, just under the cap, to the overflow tank. Make sure it is not open or disconnected anywhere. The other thing that should be done is to find out which hose leaked in the first place and see where it connects. Finally, a good look over the whole system, including checking all components by using a vacuum gauge, should be done to see if there is any clearly failed part. Until those things are done there is really not much anyone can suggest as to what the cause might be, at least IMO. That said, as I said before, these bikes have proven to have very robust cooling systems as well as very reliable, robust engines so I would not assume anything really bad has happened- look for the simple, obvious things first and you will probably find a cheap and easy fix.
Best of luck.
Brian
Define puke: I would say a pint or two. It gushed out of the tube for about 30 sec or so.
Coolant has not been flushed.
I want to also note that we were at a high elevation (bluff at Perremarquette, Grafton, IL). Not sure if that makes a difference.
I am a bit confused with the overflow tank. Is the tank/reservoir that you can see antifreeze level? Or is it the small plastic bottle tucked away under the bike?
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When it puked, what was the coolant temp reading on the gauge? Do your fans come on when it gets hot....were the fans left unplugged during the valve adjust?
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[...]I would suggest having someone (your or a competent mechanic as you wish) to look at the hoses on the bike, especially the one running from the radiator, just under the cap, to the overflow tank. Make sure it is not open or disconnected anywhere. [...]
:goodpost:
And if you do all that, for god-sake, replace all the coolant too! It is time. Just makes sense.
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Sorry - been busy with work and so did not get time to look at the bike. I can see coolant in the reservoir/overflow tank. It is just below the low level. I did ride the bike quite a number of times after this issue and I did not encounter any heating issue. Temperature gauge always looks normal. At idle, temperature will climb until fan kicks in and will settle at middle or 3/4 (depending on how cold it is outside and how long I let it idle). While riding, it will settle mid or 1/4 depending on again how fast I am riding, how cold outside, etc.
I think I will have the cooling system checked out very soon here.
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Define puke: I would say a pint or two. It gushed out of the tube for about 30 sec or so.
Coolant has not been flushed.
I want to also note that we were at a high elevation (bluff at Perremarquette, Grafton, IL). Not sure if that makes a difference.
I am a bit confused with the overflow tank. Is the tank/reservoir that you can see antifreeze level? Or is it the small plastic bottle tucked away under the bike?
High elevations in Illinois? :rotflmao:
Your 2008 has never had the coolant changed/flushed? :o
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:goodpost:
And if you do all that, for god-sake, replace all the coolant too! It is time. Just makes sense.
And some people need to change out the brake/clutch fluids in their bikes too. ;)
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And some people need to change out the brake/clutch fluids in their bikes too. ;)
Oh, I know I should have expected that. And you are right.
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I had that on a 2011. It would not puke until the engine was pretty hot. Turned out the hoses were reversed.
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Which hoses were reversed?
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not sure. it was a new LEO bike. it happened during an PO Basic Motor School. I took it to the dealer and had to ride it hard in the lot to get it hot enough. They took it in to the shop and advised that the coolant hoses were reversed. I can call and ask them if it is necessary.
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Nah....just wondering.
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That'll be the pair of small hoses at the filler neck.
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That'll be the pair of small hoses at the filler neck.
interesting, knowing the multiple hoses on the C14... one is the overflow, located above the pressure cap, the other is a bleeder/purge hose coming from the thermostat housing on the "hot" side, into the radiator below the pressure cap's seal...
not sure. it was a new LEO bike. it happened during an PO Basic Motor School. I took it to the dealer and had to ride it hard in the lot to get it hot enough. They took it in to the shop and advised that the coolant hoses were reversed. I can call and ask them if it is necessary.
with the explanation I gave above, I would think it took quite a bit to get the bike up to "hot" as essentially the pressure cap was not sealing the system anymore, and the radiator was constantly venting to the overflow tank, with the hose being higher than the actual coolant level in the radiator. In that scenario, temps would remain cool, and the system was never really "pressurized", nor was the coolant bled from the thermo housing going anywhere, because it was sealed between the pressure seal, and outer cap seal of the cap.
Those hoses are different sized, i'm surprised there wasn't a major leak when the larger bleeder hose, was installed on the smaller overflow tube at the filler neck.
This system also has an additional hose that is a bleeder/purge line running from the waterpump, up to the thermostat housing also, this is on the "cold" side, or return side of flow. The whole system does provide a much better sealed system, and reduces any chances of cavitation requiring extensive air purging when all is working correctly.
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It has been a while that I reported back on this issue. I have not driven the bike long distance lately (life and such) and been having too much fun on my ducati scrambler around town. However, now that it is HOT over in mid west, I took the bike for a longish spin and it puked again. This time I took off all the body work and let the bike idle until one but last bar on the temp indicator. Observation:
1. The hose puking is the one on top of the overflow reservoir
2. The antifreeze was bubbling up crazy (like boiling)
3. THE FANS DID NOT COME ON !!!
4. The first/top hose on the radiator filler neck goes to the big hose behind the engine (I am guessing thermostat housing). This seems contrary to what Man of Blues is saying below. The second/bottom hose from the neck goes to overflow reservoir.
So are my hoses reversed? Or my thermostat stuck shut?
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More updates.....
1. I went ahead and reversed the hoses. The top most hose from the filler neck now goes to overflow reservoir. The bottom hose goes to thermostat housing.
2. I found out where my missing GPS mount went. It was jammed up against the second fan, which subsequently blew the fuse. Replaced fuse, fished out the mount, and now the fans are turning
Just need someone to confirm that the hoses does need to be reversed (meaning the topmost hose goes to overflow and the bottom hose goes to thermostat housing - again, taking about the two small hoses from the filler neck).
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On the radiator, the top hose goes to the bottom of the overflow tank. The lower hose goes to the thermostat housing.
Sounds like you found your problem, with the stuck fan and blown fuse. Hopefully the GPS mount did not do any damage to the radiator.
Best of luck going forward.
Brian
More updates.....
1. I went ahead and reversed the hoses. The top most hose from the filler neck now goes to overflow reservoir. The bottom hose goes to thermostat housing.
2. I found out where my missing GPS mount went. It was jammed up against the second fan, which subsequently blew the fuse. Replaced fuse, fished out the mount, and now the fans are turning
Just need someone to confirm that the hoses does need to be reversed (meaning the topmost hose goes to overflow and the bottom hose goes to thermostat housing - again, taking about the two small hoses from the filler neck).
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I am guessing the dealership in Springfield, IL where I bought my bike reversed the hoses. I was not happy when I got the bike back after my valve adjustment - they lost a bunch of body screws and the panels were not aligned right.