Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: VirginiaJim on January 25, 2012, 02:55:59 PM
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I want to know how many of us have had checks done by the dealer or you wound up doing it yourself. Please tell about the complexity and whether or not you would do it again or had problems afterwards.
Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole but that's me. In my case, finding a weekend or more to do the job is virtually non-existent. I work every other Saturday for the most part so when I'm not working I'm spending time doing home stuff or riding.
I have Fred's videos and am fully capable of doing it.....I think. I am mechanically inclined but at this time of my life I'm finding I'm farming more of this stuff out (including house repairs) than I've ever done in the past. It's a change for me to 'let go' and let someone else do it. I kinda like it though as it gives more time for the family and other endevours.
The wonderful thing about this forum is that you can ask questions real time while you're working on it and someone will usually help you out that's done it before.
I guess the real reason is time for me as I think about it and write this up.
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I did mine with the help of a friend and Fred's DVDs. I didn't think it was complex but it certainly was time consuming to get to the valve cover. At that point it was a pretty standard valve check and I think it would have been slightly easier than most if I had been required to pull the cams and change shims. Putting everything back together was very straight forward. I thought the hardest step in the whole process was putting the side covers back on my 2010 model. Its almost a two person job to line all the tabs up without scratching the plastic.
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Did it myself. I would suggest using labeled ziploc baggies and taking pics of the wiring, foam, etc at each step of dissasembly. The "complexity" is mostly in the manual, as it jumps all over the place. Some parts you spend almost as much time flipping pages as turning wrenches.
The savings on my first (and only so far) valve job bought an HF platform lift and various hand tools as well as paying me a bit for my time. The local dealer swapped some shims for free, but some I had to order, so the bike was up on the rack for about 2 weeks or so. Because of the time lag between start and finish, the baggies and pics are extremely helpful.
If you are not mechanically talented, this may not be the job to learn on, but it really isn't bad with a garage and a lift and proper tools. I'm just about coming up on time for another check. I'm not "looking forward" to it, but I'm not dreading it, either. In the 4.5 years I've had the bike and been on this forum, it seems rare for an owner to find all the valves in spec on the first check, and equally rare for dealers to find them out of spec. Anecdotal, yes, but that is a major reason I would prefer to do the work myself. I fully expect all the valves to be in spec, so it s/b much easier this time around.
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No problems for me, I would take mine to the dealer again in a heart beat. I found it very easy and personally, I don't understand all the discussion of how complicated the procedure is. I dropped the bike off, I picked the bike up, what is so hard about that ::)
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I checked my valves the first time which wasn't to bad. The second time I had the dealer do it since they were replacing my valve cover gasket under warranty. I couldn't pass up paying $100 to have someone else do an 8-12 hour job. My next check will be done by me unless I luck into another warranty discount.
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I don't have an itemized list yet but I just had the valve check, four iridium spark plugs, a Pirelli Angel St front tire (mounted and balanced) completed for $490. The valve cover gasket was leaking which was covered under warranty. Kawasaki was billed for the gasket and labor for that job. I was told that I will be provided with a map concerning the data collected on my valves. I was also told that they were not only in spec but dead on. I know, too good to be true. The shop manager said it took the tech six hours from beginning to end to complete the job. Without actually being there looking over the shoulder of the tech I guess I'll never know. At any rate if they are dead on at 21K they should be good for another 20K and if there is a problem I have the extended warranty and their data saying the valves are dead on spec. It probably would have taken me a week to do the job myself the first time. Lately, I barely have time to ride the bike let alone complete this large job.
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Please post the map when you get it.
Actually, "dead on" is too good to be true. "In spec" is a high-low range, not a specific setting with a plus or minus tolerance. At least, Kawi does not publish a specific clearance as optimal AFAIK. There is also the question as to whether they were checking to a tolerance of .01mm or .025mm.
Either way, as noted in other threads, the newer bikes do seem to needing fewer shim replacements than those belonging to us guinea pigs.
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Haven't done it yet, what is the first recommended mileage check?
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Jim, your post sounds like me. At 59 years old I still do all my routine maintenance on all of my vehicles. In high school I took two years of auto mechanics classes. When I raced motorcycles I rebuilt my 750 DOHC Honda engine (with some help from a friend).
When we are young we often have more time than money - even if we don't have much time we have less money. But hopefully, many of us cross the line to where we have more money than time.
I still like working on stuff, and I do an awful lot of home and mechanical projects myself. For me, the line I draw on doing this job is that the cams have to be removed and properly timed when reinstalling. Like you I'm sure I could do it, but the downside of making a mistake is catastrophic. I'm about to buy a third motorcycle (more on that in a few weeks) and maybe that will give me more incentive to pull a bike apart knowing that if I let it sit a few days I still have something else fun to ride. But right now I'm leaning toward riding the Concours to the dealer to pick up my new bike, and leaving it with them to do the valve check (gee, does that mean the new bike will be a Kawasaki as well???).
Decisions, decisions. But I'm probably going to have the dealer do the valve check.
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Haven't done it yet, what is the first recommended mileage check?
Book says 15k most agree on 25k.
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Book says 15k most agree on 25k.
Thanks Spanky, I guess I'll let you guys know in a couple more years... ??? :'(
Ahhh screw it, I'm voting in advance! Sounds like a local shop job to me, I can barely figure out how to put gas in it and text at the same time! ;D
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All those awesome roads in the north west and it will take a couple more years? Blasphemy!
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All those awesome roads in the north west and it will take a couple more years? Blasphemy!
Agreed!
Just too much travel for work, and when not traveling too much rain and other bikes to ride in the stable... :(
Sorry, don't mean to thread jack. (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_smackbottom.gif)
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Did it myself. I had a couple of weeks at Christmas and couldn't ride anyway. It was a lot easier with Fred's videos. Took the lap top into the garage, cranked the heat and turned on the tunes. I would do it again. And all but one valve was out. Not all out of spec, but enough were.
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I took my c14 to a dealer for the first valve check. I'm going hto gear up and get the tools needed to dp my own valve checks next time. I do the valve checks on my z-1 now every 4,000 miles. I don't have tpo pull the camshafts to change a shim because it's shim over bucket.
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Please post the map when you get it.
Actually, "dead on" is too good to be true. "In spec" is a high-low range, not a specific setting with a plus or minus tolerance. At least, Kawi does not publish a specific clearance as optimal AFAIK. There is also the question as to whether they were checking to a tolerance of .01mm or .025mm.
Either way, as noted in other threads, the newer bikes do seem to needing fewer shim replacements than those belonging to us guinea pigs.
My bike is a 2009 btw. I will post the map. I was speaking with the service manager over the phone and although he said the specs were 'dead on' I am not going to hold him to that. I'll write his comment off as idle chatter. He did say to me that he told the tech that he didn't care if the job was taking up a lot of space and time...he just wanted the job done correctly. Not sure how to take that but I wouldn't think you would have to say that to an experienced technician. Then again I don't know if they put pressure on the techs to move work in and out as fast as they can. I would be interested what the tech thinks or at least what his notes say. When I get the data (if it is even accurate) I'll surely post it for you guys to look at. They have been in business for 30 years so I'll take that into consideration as far as their honesty. The data they provide and what people in here tell me regarding that data is what I'll end up believing. I'm not that concerned. I document all the service completed by me or completed at the shop and keep it in a three ring binder. If there is an issue in the future I will be prepared. If they did do the job properly I think my bill is very reasonable for all that labor.
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I did mine at about 22 thousand and again at about 55 thousand. Replaced several shims both times. No big deal other than clearing space in the garage to stack parts. Made labels, drawings and took pictures as my focus is lost waiting for shims. I also have done three checks/adjusts on the VFR and one on the SV650. I probably did 15 or 20 screw type adjusts on older bikes and a Honda CRX.
Believe it or not the C14 is easier to adjust than the VFR and even the V-twin!
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Just got mine back from a local motorcycle shop, not the dealer. Valves checked. @21K miles (All were in spec). Plugs replaced. 4 hrs labor plus the price of plugs. $320.00 total. Nice guys. :D
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Just got mine back from a local motorcycle shop, not the dealer. Valves checked. @21K miles (All were in spec). Plugs replaced. 4 hrs labor plus the price of plugs. $320.00 total. Nice guys. :D
They may have only charged you for 4 hours labor, but they didn't take a C14 apart from scratch/fully assembled, check the valves and put it all back together again in 4 hours......
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They may have only charged you for 4 hours labor, but they didn't take a C14 apart from scratch/fully assembled, check the valves and put it all back together again in 4 hours......
My dealer has quoted me 4 hours as well.
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They may have only charged you for 4 hours labor, but they didn't take a C14 apart from scratch/fully assembled, check the valves and put it all back together again in 4 hours......
You are correct! They kept the bike for a week and worked on it along and along. I know it took longer than 4hrs. They have my business.
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I take mine to the local dealer. It's a small shop with a great tech and I trust him. I do remove almost all the plastic before dropping the bike off as it saves me labor charges. Both the 15 and 30 were around $300 parts and labor.
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You are correct! They kept the bike for a week and worked on it along and along. I know it took longer than 4hrs. They have my business.
Did you get a map of the valve settings? Could you post it?
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Did myself. great learning experience. Had Fred's videos also...laptop, garage, and went to town. Got great help from this forum as well. Putting the cams back in was the scarey part for me... must have checked it 20 times before I buttoned it back up. Two days later I dreamed I forgot to reinstall one of the oil feeder tubes under the head. anyway...good experience.
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Like you I'm sure I could do it, but the downside of making a mistake is catastrophic.
Decisions, decisions. But I'm probably going to have the dealer do the valve check.
This line is the absolute deciding factor for me regarding any and all maintenance on any of my various vehicles, either two wheels or four. Whether riding or driving it's my ass that's on the line. There is no way for anyone working for wages, who is working on property belonging to another, to be as cautious and meticulous as I can afford to be when maintaining my own possessions. I simply don't trust anyone to be as competent or as careful as I am. There are rare occasions when I must let the dealer do a job, I needed a tire pressure sensor replaced when the bike was new and later I lost a FOB and needed the replacement programmed. Prior to taking the bike in for the tire pressure sensor replacement I made note of the tire's exact placement on the rim and found that when the tire was remounted it was five inches from where it should have been. I checked the balance and found that it was off and that the factory had it correct before the mechanic did his deed. This was done by the same guy who would be inside the engine for a valve adjustment. No way will I let him anyone else do a job that I'm willing and able to do better.
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Who is this Fred guy and where do I get his videos?
Unless my free time to go riding changes a lot, I won't have to worry about my first valve check any more this year :(
Matt
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Who is this Fred guy and where do I get his videos?
Unless my free time to go riding changes a lot, I won't have to worry about my first valve check any more this year :(
Matt
http://www.angelridevideos.com/ (http://www.angelridevideos.com/)
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Did you get a map of the valve settings? Could you post it?
No I didn't get the map. I'll go down and talk to them soon and get one. He told me they were all well within specs, but slightly on the tight side and that later on down the road may need shimming. I really trust these guys. Very straightforward and never seem to be trying to pull one over.
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They may have only charged you for 4 hours labor, but they didn't take a C14 apart from scratch/fully assembled, check the valves and put it all back together again in 4 hours......
That seems like the way I would do it. I wonder if there is a list of known good local shops anywhere.
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You need to at least tell us your general location so that someone can give a recommendation or not.
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No problems for me, I would take mine to the dealer again in a heart beat. I found it very easy and personally, I don't understand all the discussion of how complicated the procedure is. I dropped the bike off, I picked the bike up, what is so hard about that ::)
Nothing as long as you don't look too close and find all the missing fasteners, or find out the dealer didn't even change the shims or swapped shims around, but charged you for new ones, or worst of all -- said they checked the valves, but really just moved the bike to a new location and charged you for the procedure. Wanna know how I know SOME dealers do that? That's right !! I used to work in a shop and watched them do that type of stuff all the time.
You do it yourself? And you know it was done and done right !!!! Never trust a shop any farther than you can throw it. They can be great today and suck tomorrow. All it takes is a change in personnel or ownership or mechanic attitude.
Color me cynical.............
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They may have only charged you for 4 hours labor, but they didn't take a C14 apart from scratch/fully assembled, check the valves and put it all back together again in 4 hours......
That seems like the way I would do it. I wonder if there is a list of known good local shops anywhere.
You need to at least tell us your general location so that someone can give a recommendation or not.
Cincinnati, Ohio area
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Ok, guys. Any good dealers in the Cincy area?
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You do it yourself? And you know it was done and done right !!!! Never trust a shop any farther than you can throw it. They can be great today and suck tomorrow. All it takes is a change in personnel or ownership or mechanic attitude.
Color me cynical.............
Hence the ::) emoticon. I am fortunate to have a mechanic that is very honest and does a great job. I also know that not everyone is that fortunate. Many of us have no choice but to trust someone else - not all of us are former mechanics, and I for one am not trying this one myself.
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Nothing as long as you don't look too close and find all the missing fasteners, or find out the dealer didn't even change the shims or swapped shims around, but charged you for new ones, or worst of all -- said they checked the valves, but really just moved the bike to a new location and charged you for the procedure. Wanna know how I know SOME dealers do that? That's right !! I used to work in a shop and watched them do that type of stuff all the time.
You do it yourself? And you know it was done and done right !!!! Never trust a shop any farther than you can throw it. They can be great today and suck tomorrow. All it takes is a change in personnel or ownership or mechanic attitude.
Color me cynical.............
+1
When I recently removed the luggage rack I found the mech had lost one of the spacers under the bolt, when they did the luggage rack replacement recall. Only four bolts, four spacers, and he lost one and just put it together without it. What would he leave out on a valve adjustment?
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Did mine myself, sorry, dont trust Kawasaki dealers one bit, Ive seen who works on them back there, (Louisiana that is)
Took me approx 6-8 hrs with breaks inbetween, its not a hard job, just time consuming on those plastics, I remember the ole KZ's and GS's which took about an hour..........
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Nothing as long as you don't look too close and find all the missing fasteners, or find out the dealer didn't even change the shims or swapped shims around, but charged you for new ones, or worst of all -- said they checked the valves, but really just moved the bike to a new location and charged you for the procedure. Wanna know how I know SOME dealers do that? That's right !! I used to work in a shop and watched them do that type of stuff all the time.
You do it yourself? And you know it was done and done right !!!! Never trust a shop any farther than you can throw it. They can be great today and suck tomorrow. All it takes is a change in personnel or ownership or mechanic attitude.
Color me cynical.............
I know mine was done. I was there in various parts of the teardown. They were smart and took photos as they did the work. If your in the Valdosta Ga area, look up "The Motorcycle Shop" Great guys
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Exhaust: .21 .21 .20 .21 .20 .20 .21 .22
Intake: .13 .13 .13 .12 .13 .14 .13 .13
{left side}
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I had dealer do mine both times. First time was mostly covered for a valve cover gasket leak with one exhaust shim needing swapped. I just took it in Tuesday for the 30K service. Picked it up yesterday (Thursday) and valves were in spec for a cost of 475.00. I only own the bike as transportation and can not generally have it down for a week or so for me to do the work. If I buy another vehicle some time I would have no qualms about doing the job myself.
As a side note, the mechanic who works on the Wings and Concours (I always request the same mechanic as I am familiar with his work) is a very meticulous fellow and has worked at this shop for as long as I have lived in this state at least. He had some pics/stories to share with me when I picked up the bike.
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Mine is got 15K on it and I am running it to 25. My deaership has done a few and most are in spec.
Screw it, lets ride.
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I need to get on the "valve cover gasket leak" warranty gravy train! How did you know your valve cover gasket is leaking? It's pretty hard to see inside unless I take the covers off. Thanks.
Most likely ship it to the dealer.......I'm hope my vc leaks when I'm ready for valve adj. :o
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I had all my fairings off when I spotted the oil seepage what I had been smelling for the previous month or two.
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I just noticed white smoke. Just a little bit, once the exaust manifold heated up. Took off the skins and sure enough the front of the cylinders are wet with oil.
Warranty is up next month so I'll be calling Cherry Hill Kawi this week to get it in.
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I just noticed white smoke. Just a little bit, once the exaust manifold heated up. Took off the skins and sure enough the front of the cylinders are wet with oil.
Warranty is up next month so I'll be calling Cherry Hill Kawi this week to get it in.
How are they in Cherry Hill? I'm up in North Brunswick and was considering buying from them, as I know a few other people who bought Kawis there and all had good experiences. Is there servicing decent? Do they charge out the wazoo?
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Re: Cherry Hill,
I can't speak as to their service dept but I bought my '09 there last August. Found it on Ebay and made the trip over to pick it up. Pretty decent people to deal with IMO.
Matt
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A local mechanic here in Savannah marks the valve cover in some way just in case a customer claims a valve inspection wasn't done.
When I did mine last year, I put my initials and mileage with a permanent marker inside the valve cover (who knows if it will be there next time?).
For comparison, one of the local Kawasaki dealers cannot possibly do valve inspections. Not only do they not have the proper shims, they do not have a micrometer. Many shims markings are unreadable, in these cases a micrometer is necessary to determine the thickness so the proper calculation can be made to get the proper clearance.
When asked, the mechanic simply said "I haven't needed a micrometer in 3 years".
Either he's very good at guessing differences of .00x" or he's a knucklehead who is charging customers for work that is not performed.
YMMV.
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How are they in Cherry Hill? I'm up in North Brunswick and was considering buying from them, as I know a few other people who bought Kawis there and all had good experiences. Is there servicing decent? Do they charge out the wazoo?
Service Department is good. Can't say about charges because the leak was covered under warrantee. I did ask for a quote to Sync the throtle bodies, spark plugs and Valve check/adjust while they were in there and they said $600+. I said "no thanks".
I usually do my own maintenance and only took it in for the leak because it was covered.
I still want to take it appart to see if everything was put back correctly.