Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up

[vortex2]

I agree with you Brian, I will adapt and overcome!

However, I would like to know if this is an issue with more than one bike, or just mine. I suspect that not that many '10s have had a valve adjustment by now, and if you don't remove both
brackets it may be possible that the problem may not be as apparent.

[lather]

I put a long extension under the left side front bracket and jacked up the whole bike without altering the hole alignment at all. As far as I can see, the only way would be to strap the engine to the floor and then jack up the front of the bike.

Let me know if my questions get tiresome and I will shut up. When you jacked up on the left bracket was the right bracket bolted in place? If so then the frame is really ridgid. That brings up the question of either what made it move when the lower bolt was removed or if it was already out of alignment how could you even get the bolt out undamaged?.

I still say just loosen other engine to frame attachment points until you can align the two errant holes. Of course its possible you won't be able to re-bolt the other points but you won't know if you don't try.

I don't like the hogging out solution because it means the frame will possibly or likely  be misaligned and that in my opinion is bad.

[vortex2]

When I tried to jack it up, neither bracket was bolted in.
 As far as taking out the other mounting bolts, it won't matter.
If I bolt up the front first, the rears won't align, so I would just be
shifting the problem to the rear, where it is impossible to alter anything.
At least in the front I have a way to get it back together.

The bolt didn't come out undamaged, and I had to repair the threads
in the engine case on the left side.

I would still like to know how they got this together at the factory.

And what they thought was going to happen the first time someone removed the brackets.

[stevewfl]

When I tried to jack it up, neither bracket was bolted in.
 As far as taking out the other mounting bolts, it won't matter.
If I bolt up the front first, the rears won't align, so I would just be
shifting the problem to the rear, where it is impossible to alter anything.
At least in the front I have a way to get it back together.

The bolt didn't come out undamaged, and I had to repair the threads
in the engine case on the left side.

I would still like to know how they got this together at the factory.

And what they thought was going to happen the first time someone removed the brackets.

[vortex2]

It seems that no matter what we always come back to the BFH!

[stevewfl]

yes sir 

[lt1]

When I tried to jack it up, neither bracket was bolted in.
As far as taking out the other mounting bolts, it won't matter. If I bolt up the front first, the rears won't align, so I would just be
shifting the problem to the rear, where it is impossible to alter anything.
At least in the front I have a way to get it back together.

The bolt didn't come out undamaged, and I had to repair the threads
in the engine case on the left side.

I would still like to know how they got this together at the factory.

And what they thought was going to happen the first time someone removed the brackets.

Either your bike is messed up or you are doing something wrong.   If I'm reading the thread right, you may not have yet exercised your best option.

Unless you take out the bolts and install them in the factory specified order, you are depriving yourself of the most likely solution.  You may be right, but  lots of times I have seen things that "couldn't help" or "couldn't work" turn out to help and work.

Your bike.  Your call.   

[vortex2]

I am going to say this for the last time.

There is NOTHING to be gained by removing the rear engine mounting bolts.

There is absolutely no adjustment or anything else available or to be gained by doing so.

As it says in the manual, you are to replace the rear two bolts first. Once you do THAT, there
is no play, or flex, or adjustment, or movement of ANY kind at the front of the engine.

NONE, RIEN, NIENTE, NEIN. Period, end of discussion.

I have studied the bike and the manual for a long time, and there is no provision for adjustment, nor should there be.

I have been working on all things mechanical for over forty years.

This bike came like this from the factory, where they had some trick in assembling it that they are unlikely to share with me.

On other machines I have seen factory parts that were manufactured in a range to overcome this type of problem, but that has gone away with newer casting and machining techniques commonly used now.

Kawasaki messed this bike up when they built it, and I will fix it. I am not unhappy except for the time I wasted thinking I had done something wrong.

I started riding bikes in the 60's. I am so happy that I have these beautiful machines to ride now.

Please note that nowhere in this thread did I mention complaining to Kawasaki. I will continue to buy their products as I have since 1971.

And that is all I have to say about that.

[B.D.F.]

Really we have no idea if this problem occurs on '08's and '09's either- I suspect very few left / forward motor mounts have been removed from C-14's of any year. The only reason I can think of to remove that mount would be to remove the engine <gasp> and I do not think there have been many of those instances. For all I know mine might be might be misaligned and have been forced from the factory.

But as I said, given a tight fitting socket, a fairly long extension and the will to use them it is amazing what can be made to 'fit' and assemble. The person who did that to your bike probably had no idea that he / she was being.... overenthusiastic while he / she was doing it. I believe far more damage is done by ignorance and apathy than malice.

Brian

I agree with you Brian, I will adapt and overcome!

However, I would like to know if this is an issue with more than one bike, or just mine. I suspect that not that many '10s have had a valve adjustment by now, and if you don't remove both
brackets it may be possible that the problem may not be as apparent.

[vortex2]

Well the thought did occur to me to take my '09 apart and see.

I have a valve check coming up, but I may just take it apart sooner just to see.

I am sure no malice was involved. The person whose job it was to assemble, assembled

what they were given, and it worked fine until it didn't. I will assemble it back and ride on.

[B.D.F.]

Well seeing as we are just talking here, and you are thinking about looking at your other C-14 just to check (how many people have said THAT?), how about you only remove the left / front mount without removing the right / front mount? That way there is <almost> no chance the engine can shift position in any way. At least take the right mount off before the left one.

I do not have any particular opinion here but it is possible that the engine shifted on your '10 when you removed the second forward motor mount. I believe you that you studied the manual and have come to the logical conclusion that the engine installation order makes no difference, and you are probably right but I still have the belief that it is <possible> that removing both mounts did allow the engine to shift (moving 'up' on only one side the engine would have to have twisted slightly in the rear mounts) slightly. Again, I understand your logic and it makes sense, especially about the engine moving up but I have not studied the manual myself in that area so cannot really have an opinion.

Brian

Well the thought did occur to me to take my '09 apart and see.

I have a valve check coming up, but I may just take it apart sooner just to see.

I am sure no malice was involved. The person whose job it was to assemble, assembled

what they were given, and it worked fine until it didn't. I will assemble it back and ride on.

[jayke]

Vortex2:

I need your advice.  I went over a really large speed bump on my C14, bottomed it out pretty good and snapped the head off the upper rear engine mount bolt.

Can you remove the upper rear engine mount bolt with the other engine mount bolts still tight?

Most of the bolt and the nut are still in place and seem tight

Debating about just leaving it until the next valve adjustment in a couple years.  But if I can replace it easily I’ll do it now.

Thanks.

[lather]

I just studied the installation procedure (08 manual, maybe 10 is diff. but I doubt it)and I think Chet is right and Vortex is wrong.  It looks to me like there IS an adjustment going on. You insert the engine mounting bolts into the adjusting collars but don't tighten. Then install the left engine bracket then "Turn the engine mounting bolts counterclockwise with specified torque until the clearance between the crankcase and swingarm comes to zero" I read that as pulling the engine and swingarm together AFTER the left bracket is installed. I have no idea how these adjusting collars work but I think I understand they are there and I think there is a good chance the gap they close is the answer to the problem.

[lt1]

It Couldn't Be Done
by Edgar A. Guest
 
Somebody said that it couldn't be done,
But he with a chuckle replied
That 'maybe it couldn't,' but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.

So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

Somebody scoffed: 'Oh, you'll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it';
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.

With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.

But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start to sing as you tackle the thing
That 'cannot be done,' and you'll do it
 
 

[VirginiaJim]

 

[vortex2]

Jayke, give me a little more info.

Do you mean the head of the bolt on the right side of the bike broke off? The one with the Allen head?

If it is the upper bolt you will need to support the engine from below. I made a special wooden block set
to span the header and catch the engine on both sides. Put only the tiniest amount of tension on the engine,
because when you remove the top bolt the engine will want to pivot forward and down. As long as the front
mounts are in place and the engine is supported that should be ok. However, if your mounts were factory
misaligned like mine were, and you remove any one of them, you are in trouble of an unknown kind.

I find it hard to believe that a bump, however severe, could have done this damage as these are very
substantial bolts. Things do happen, I know. But if the shock was severe enough to do this, you may have other
unknown problems lurking. Let me know what you find.

[jayke]

Yes, I mean the head of the bolt on the right side of the bike broke off. The rest of the bolt is still there along with the nut. I suspect the engine has dropped a little because the rest of the bolt is stuck tight.

I really don't know when it happened, just noticed it was gone the other day. 

I hit the speed bump a few weeks ago and really beat up the drain plug so much that I had to buy a bolt remover to get it off. I have a friend that rides a WeeStrom and he said he’s heard of a few Wee’s and Triumph’s that broke their frames bottoming out on speed bumps.

I need to check out the lower rear mounting bolt too just in case.
Just went home at lunch...the head of the lower rear mounting bolt is snapped off too.

I’ll get the bolts ordered and see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

[vortex2]

Bad news, Jayke.

The bolts only come out one way, to the right side of the bike.

The reason the allen heads are there is so you can loosen the nuts on the left side.

They are torqued on good from the factory.

If you can get the nuts off you can drive the bolts out to the right with something until
enough of it shows to get a grip on.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE TRY TO SEND THEM OUT THE LEFT SIDE.

When you get them out you will see why. Remember to take the weight off by supporting the engine from below.

If you have an air wrench I would recommend it for the nuts. Sometimes a quick jerk will loosen nuts that a slow turn won't.

Good luck.

[jayke]

My name is Jayke and I'm an idiot....

The bolts are fine, they are internal hex.  Had I actually looked at them with a flashlight before I freaked out I would have noticed.

I've only owned it for 4 years, maybe I should actually look at it once in a while instead of just jumping on it and turning the key.

Sorry I wasted your time

[vortex2]

Lucky you.