Author Topic: PC5 Programming - A Primer  (Read 10651 times)

Offline Fretka

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PC5 Programming - A Primer
« on: October 20, 2011, 12:05:26 AM »
Do we have any folks who want to do a  PC 5 program it yourself sorta session?  Modify or build your own fuel maps or load two maps, one performance and the other for mileage etc..

With or without Auto-tune function. Or maybe just understand how all this stuff works?


Fretka

Also... I still have the photos from the old turbo build thread (from the pre crash board), any interest in re-building that thread?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 04:15:57 AM by VirginiaJim »
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Offline martin_14

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 02:41:35 AM »
... I still have the photos from the old turbo build thread (from the pre crash board), any interest in re-building that thread?

YES!  :grouphug:
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Offline gPink

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2011, 04:11:51 AM »
Do we have any folks who want to do a  PC 5 program it yourself sorta session?  Modify or build your own fuel maps or load two maps, one performance and the other for mileage etc..

With or without Auto-tune function. Or maybe just understand how all this stuff works?


Fretka

Also... I still have the photos from the old turbo build thread (from the pre crash board), any interest in re-building that thread?
Fretka, if you write the PCV book I'll buy it.

Offline Fretka

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2011, 12:15:26 PM »
If we do this PC5 thread please know that this must be a board-wide affair with input, disagreement, participation from all those interested.

Caveat: I am not nor do I imply that my knowledge of fuel systems is the last-word or definitive go to for this subject. I do not want to step on any toes or promote my own ideas as to what method is best.

I would really like that we can all learn some things here. So ask questions and propose answers to the whole group and maybe we can add some more value to our board.


F.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2011, 12:41:24 PM »
08 C14, zx14 header and Muzzy duals, PCv/autotune. An inexpensive (relatively) way to monitor real time a/f data that maybe would plug in line between the sensor and the autotune unit would be nice. Dynajets LCD unit is in the $300 neighborhood.
Gary

Offline Gearhead82

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 12:54:15 PM »
I would be interested. 

My last bike was an FZ1 and the FZ1OA forum had some fantastic resources for PCV tuning.  Some members had taken it upon themselves to put together a "map pack" zip file which had lots of custom maps that had been collected, averaged, etc.  I was always tweaking maps on that bike.

Would love to see the turbo information on this forum too.
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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 01:07:03 PM »
I'm in!!  I'd also be interested in some way to hook up my smart phone, sure would be nice to have the ability to change MAPS without carrying a laptop around..

Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 01:09:51 PM »
I need to learn more about the PCV, I just know how to install it.  I would love to learn more about changing maps between MPG and max power to get the best of both worlds.
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline lather

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 02:07:25 PM »
I am interested. I have a PCV on my 08 with Area P slip-on and secondary butterflies removed. I am using the map provided by Jamie where I bought the PCV (forget his company) I would like to build an econo map and add a switch. If the econo map works out then I would be interested in improving the main map for more power.
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.

Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM »
I am interested. I have a PCV on my 08 with Area P slip-on and secondary butterflies removed. I am using the map provided by Jamie where I bought the PCV (forget his company) I would like to build an econo map and add a switch. If the econo map works out then I would be interested in improving the main map for more power.

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 04:54:36 PM »
Do we have any folks who want to do a  PC 5 program it yourself sorta session?  Modify or build your own fuel maps or load two maps, one performance and the other for mileage etc..

With or without Auto-tune function. Or maybe just understand how all this stuff works?


Fretka

Also... I still have the photos from the old turbo build thread (from the pre crash board), any interest in re-building that thread?

Yes, Yes, and Yes.  Is that enough yes's?  I would like to see the turbo thread resurrected as well.
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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 05:08:33 PM »
Not me... What a complete and utter waste of time....

Just Kidding, Great Idea!!!

Offline gPink

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 05:54:38 PM »
When does class start?

Offline Fretka

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Re: Diddling your PC5
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 08:02:42 PM »
No better time than the present;

Open-loop fuel injection- A fuel-air mixture system/device that utilizes a factory programmed set of parameters to deliver the correct A/F (air fuel) ratio to the injectors. This design uses no feedback from exhaust gas measurement (such as a O2 sensor) but instead refers to an imbedded look-up table for basic or raw fuel ratios which are then further refined (or trimmed) by input from various sensors. Sensors include air temp, airbox air pressure, rpm, crankshaft position, gear position etc. Depending upon what info these sensors report back to the ECU (engine control unit) the fuel delivered to the combustion chamber will be modified (trimmed) according to dwell or time the injector is in the on position. The set of basic parameters is known as a map and is not subject to alteration (fixed reference points) by any other means than the sensors and then only within factory set parameters.
This fixed map is divided into many base cells or points that are determined by throttle position and rpm (coarse sampling values). I've forgotten now but a map might contain as many as 256 differing cells or coarse base instructions. Each cell contains instructions on fuel injector on time that correlate to that discreet rpm/throttle position. Usually these cells are closer together in rpm and throttle position in the lower rpm range of a streetbike as part-throttle and lower rpm's are generally in greater use by street riders and also because part-throttle, sready-state engine operation is much more difficult to burn properly than large throttle acceleration.

 Our C-14 is of the open-loop variety of digital fuel injection. It has no o2 sensor and relies strictly on these base map values then modified by appropriate sensors. In our stock system, any set of instructions reported back to the ECU (trims) must fall within the maximum or minimum values set by the base map or they will not be accommodated. In my opinion this type of system is somewhat more crude than the theoretically more fine tuning allowed by a closed-loop system.

This is a map table used by the PC5 software and shows each cell and how it corresponds to its specific RPM and throttle opening %.

Fretka

This attachment is a screen-shot and only intended to show how a digital map (whether it be a Kawasaki or PC 5) apportions the continuous rpm range into bite-sized, discreet chunks. The values shown here are Air Fuel Ratio targets and should not be used by anyone.






« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 12:55:53 PM by Fretka »
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 04:16:59 AM »
Does anyone have the stock map so that we can compare?
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Offline gPink

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2011, 05:12:45 AM »
Jim, I think Fred Harmon has posted maps for his '10 on the cog site or his personal site. Someone who knows him may get his permission to use them here.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 05:48:59 AM »
Jim, I think Fred Harmon has posted maps for his '10 on the cog site or his personal site. Someone who knows him may get his permission to use them here.

Would the 08/09 be different than the 10s on upward?
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Offline gPink

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 06:01:53 AM »
Good ?. Might have changed due to trac control.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2011, 10:27:41 AM »
The maps in the ECU cannot be compared with the maps in a fuel adjusting unit like a Power Commander. They do not do the same thing.

The map in the ECU is meant to work alone to determine how much fuel is injected per engine power stroke, and will always increase the fuel metered with increasing RPM and increasing throttle opening. The numbers to the right of the chart are always larger and <somewhat> linear; at 50% throttle opening and 5,000 RPM there will be <around> twice the injector on time as there is at 50% throttle and 2,500 RPM (not really linear but tending towards that way).

A P.C. map adds or subtracts injector on time from the original ECU's generated on time. The P.C. map has no general direction or tendency as each cell stands alone and has no reference to any other cell; the cell at 50% throttle opening and 5,000 RPM may be -10 (reducing the fuel supplied by the ECU by 10%) while the cell at 50% throttle opening and 2,500 RPM may be +15. That does NOT mean there is more fuel supplied at 2,500 RPM; what it does mean is that the P.C. is slightly enriching what the ECU is calling for at 2,500 RPM and slightly leaning what the ECU is calling for at 5,000 RPM.

A P.C. map only works in conjunction with the ECU's map while the ECU's map can and usually is used alone (as all bikes without a P.C. are used).

Brian


Does anyone have the stock map so that we can compare?
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: PC5 Programming - A Primer
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2011, 11:41:56 AM »
Excellent!   :goodpost:    But I must warn you that my brane limit for storing facts is nearly met which means I may lose something shortly.
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