Kawasaki Concours Forum
Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: Awaz on October 17, 2011, 08:51:46 AM
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I visited a Triumph/Ducati/Yamaha dealer and a BMW dealer yesterday. The Triumph dealer was Donelson cycle at St Louis. I was wanting to see up close how a Speedmaster looks and so also a Scrambler. My nephew was checking out some vstars. The experience was not great. The person in the floor lost interested with us the moment we said we are just checking out the bikes and do not intend to buy it right at this time. And will not let us test drive anything. I was thinking 'you got nice bikes, but I will go somewhere else if I ever want to buy one'.
Then we went to a BMW dealer (in St Louis) - this is my first time. I was thinking the BMW guy will be probably as cocky as the Triumph guy. But it was completely opposite. He showed us all different kinds of bikes. Showed a 1600GT they were just taking out of crate. Offered us to take a 1600GTL out for spin. I declined though as I was running out of time. Beside the bike looked too big for my test. What surprised me though was that as soon as I sat on a R1200RT, the bike felt like I belong on it ! It probably is not good of a performer as my C14, but it just felt so right ! The right amount of height, the right amount of weight for me. I originally thought of it (before buying my C14) but dismissed it because of its air cooled engine and did not quite liked how the engine stuck out. But I was so surprised how much I liked when I swung my leg over it. Then he had us look at a few 1200GS. Those felt awesome too. I will have to go back with lot of time to test drive a few. Wish I had a extra kidney though.
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I really liked my R1150RT, great ride, more tour then sport, but enough sport to put a grin on my face. What killed me was service costs, what finally put me over the top was the ABS service, something that requires special tools. Glad I sold her and still happy with my C14.
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IMHO, you got just what you asked for at the Triumph dealership. When I say, "I'm just looking and not buying today.", I'm telling the salesman to get lost and leave me alone. Most of them understand that.
When you are just looking and want them to show you stuff, let them know. Something like, "I'm not buying today, but I would appreciate it if you could tell me more about xyz bike.".
I try not to waste their time, and don't want them to waste mine.
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In Daytona Beach FL the BMW< Ducati and Triumph dealer are the same dealer in the same shop.
I was in there this past Sat and the salesman I talked to was happy to answer all my questions about the Triumphs I was looking at.
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BMW has the best (and almost only) demo program in the business. Every BMW dealer I have been in is very willing to let me ride anything that they have set up on the demo program or that they have a used on in stock. And they have demo bikes for most of their bikes.
As to the RT. I have ridden an older one (2004) but not more current. But I can say that they seem to have an extremely loyal base of owners that love them. It has a lot of appeal to me for a long distance touring bike - but I like the added performance of my Concours for an all around sport-touring and weekend bike.
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IMHO, you got just what you asked for at the Triumph dealership. When I say, "I'm just looking and not buying today.", I'm telling the salesman to get lost and leave me alone. Most of them understand that.
When you are just looking and want them to show you stuff, let them know. Something like, "I'm not buying today, but I would appreciate it if you could tell me more about xyz bike.".
I try not to waste their time, and don't want them to waste mine.
I am going to give my best shot here to explain. IMO, it is wrong in your part to assume I am telling the salesperson to get lost. I was letting him that I am not buying one right now, but would like to check them out - which means give me some info on them, let me test drive one. Even if he understood that I am asking him to leave me alone, there is a way you express it.
We were flat out told NO on wanting to test drive a Triumph speedmaster. And I am not saying he does not have a reason of saying know, he may have reason to do so. And I would not make the comment about the dealer being unfriendly if his demeanor of communicating to me was more welcoming. I can assure you, in no way I was being a jerk or was disregarding the person I was talking to. It was his attitude of telling us we cannot test drive that turned me off. You can be polite in your way of telling a person no and you can still come out of the shop not feeling like you have been treated bad.
Again, I am want to point out here is that the whole experience is not as simply as I stated in the above two paragraph. If I am to re-create the exact experience, I will have to write a whole wall of text which will be waste of space and time for many. In gist of it, no matter what the dealer understood and what limitation they have, there is a way to express that to a customer and that what gives me, a customer, a good or a bad feeling about the dealer.
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Understood that you weren't being rude. However, "just browsing" is the commonly accepted way of saying "please leave me alone". Other than the pushy ones, most salesmen understand that and politely leave you alone.
As far as the test rides go, very few dealerships allow test drives. Perhaps he could have been less abrupt, but a test ride is a rare thing, not something to be expected. Much different than car dealerships. Unless you are a regular customer (ie spent quite a bit of money there), it is very difficult to motivate a dealership to break their policies on test rides.
Again, you were there and I wasn't. I might have disliked the guy as well.
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Understood that you weren't being rude. However, "just browsing" is the commonly accepted way of saying "please leave me alone". Other than the pushy ones, most salesmen understand that and politely leave you alone.
I think politeness was missing. I felt I was being a nuisance at his store. Stark difference at the BMW store. I got more info on bikes then my brain can hold. All the way from a few 1989s they had to the 2011s that were there.
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The BMW dealership has a factory backed demo plan, unlike the other marques. I know the folks at Donelson quite well, done business there since the 70s. Insurance plays a big part in allowing test rides. If you were ready to plunk money down you may have been offered a ride. I know I would be offered a ride, they know me well. They have before and I've never bought a bike from them. Bought one through Carl from a gentleman who had it in the shop. And, I've taken demo rides at Motorad a few times. Actually put money on a new C10 at the old location but cancelled the deal as I found a MUCH better deal elsewhere.
Do not take offense at what has been said here, a car salesperson would have allowed you to look and moved to another customer. If you had any questions about the products all you had to do was ask the salesperson. They would have been happy to help if they were not busy with another customer.
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I'm quite surprised at the difficulties that you guys in the US have to test drive a bike, being such a (at least in my mind) dynamic economy in which consumism plays a huge roll. I live in Germany (which as far as I know is, together with Japan and the US, one of the most consumist societies in the world), and having a test ride is as simple as filling a form (name, address, and....errrr.... that's it) and leaving your driving license at the dealer for the hour or two that you're out. Every now and then they ask for a fee (about 10 euros = 13 US dollars) for ensurance or fuel, depending if you ever did business with them or not. Before getting my 1400GTR I tried everything out there, from a Bandit 1250S to a Yamaha FJR, but funnily enough, I couldn't get my hands on a K1300GT :-X (sales guy at the BMW dealer was a §"$%&)
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We are also the most litigous society. That is why the lack of test rides.
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BMW sells a lot of bikes because of their test ride program, I think every one of their dealers offers it. On a number of occasions I've been offered test rides after I told them I was just browsing. Indeed, a number of years back I was shopping for riding clothes at a dealer in Southern California when the salesman almost insisted I take a K1200RS for a spin. I ended up buying it. The C-14 I'm riding now reminds me of that motorcycle, very similar power delivery and performance.
I was offered a test ride on the C-14 too, but declined because it was a rainy day and I didn't have my own gear. I relied of the results of the numerous test reports which ranked the C-14 highly. Other than the seat I haven't been disappointed.
Smart business.
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I took my grandson into the local BMW shop (Morton's) here in Fredericksburg, VA a few weeks ago to look at police bikes as they usually have one or two in the lineup. One salesman that's been there for years saw my interest in the big boy there and asked did I want to ride it. Told him it was a plot to get me to buy it and we had a few laughs but then asked if I had any questions and went on to the next customer (no shortage there). Nice people and if I were to buy a BMW it would be from them. They will let you test ride just about anything where the other dealers will hardly let you sit on one, let alone test ride it.
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I checked out the new 1600. Way too big for me. (The price tag, not the bike).
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When I bought my C14, they offered me test ride and I took it. And guess what, a week later, bike was mine. It definitely sells bikes to allow test rides.
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I visited a Triumph/Ducati/Yamaha dealer and a BMW dealer yesterday. The Triumph dealer was Donelson cycle at St Louis. I was wanting to see up close how a Speedmaster looks and so also a Scrambler. My nephew was checking out some vstars. The experience was not great. The person in the floor lost interested with us the moment we said we are just checking out the bikes and do not intend to buy it right at this time. And will not let us test drive anything. I was thinking 'you got nice bikes, but I will go somewhere else if I ever want to buy one'.
Then we went to a BMW dealer (in St Louis) - this is my first time. I was thinking the BMW guy will be probably as cocky as the Triumph guy. But it was completely opposite. He showed us all different kinds of bikes. Showed a 1600GT they were just taking out of crate. Offered us to take a 1600GTL out for spin. I declined though as I was running out of time. Beside the bike looked too big for my test. What surprised me though was that as soon as I sat on a R1200RT, the bike felt like I belong on it ! It probably is not good of a performer as my C14, but it just felt so right ! The right amount of height, the right amount of weight for me. I originally thought of it (before buying my C14) but dismissed it because of its air cooled engine and did not quite liked how the engine stuck out. But I was so surprised how much I liked when I swung my leg over it. Then he had us look at a few 1200GS. Those felt awesome too. I will have to go back with lot of time to test drive a few. Wish I had a extra kidney though.
I will save my opinions on Donnelson due to the fact that I am somehow related to the family through marriage but I went down there to look at a Ducati and order some Honda parts and was not too impressed by the salesman. He wasnt too concerned with showing me the Ducatis and the parts people didnt have a clue on the Honda. At least know some info on the bikes you sell. Ok so I didnt save my opinion. ;)
As for Gateway BMW... They are top notch. If I could find any Beemer that I wanted to buy, I would definitely buy from them. Honz is a really cool guy and is really into his bikes (And knows everything there is to know about them). He is willing to take the time to shoot the shiznit with anyone. Tirekicker or not. And all the salespeople there are really nice and knowledgeable.
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Glad to see at least one other person had the same feeling as I! ;D
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Awaz and Tin Tin are you local in St. Louis?
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At the Kawiyamahonda dealer we go to, the one guy we dealt with never wanted to let us test ride anything unless it was used. When we bought my wife's Vulcan 1500, we had to test ride on an older one that had some different features than the one she wanted. When I bought my Vulcan 1600, he wouldn't let me test ride it, but I knew it was going to be a lot like the 1500 so I bought it anyway.
That sales guy moved into another position, so when I went to get my Connie, I talked to another guy who's been there a while. I was looking at the FJR and the Connie, he asked if I'd ever ridden one, I said no, he says "you want to?". I said of course, and told him the other guy never let us take out new bikes, and he was dumbfounded. He said that's not their policy at all, and that I can ride anything I want. He said they typically won't let people take out sport bikes or ST's, but because we are long time customers we were welcome to ride anything we want. I took out the FJR for probably 45 minutes, came back, hopped on the Connie for about 20 minutes and knew it was what I wanted.
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Awaz and Tin Tin are you local in St. Louis?
yea kirkwood
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Nah...I am in central Illinois (near Springfield, IL). The closest Triumph or BMW dealer was in St Louis...unfortunately.
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I am at woodson and the rock road. For Tin Tin that is the Overland/St. John area and for Awaz that is the same road that Donnellson is on and about halfway bewtween Donnellson and the beemer dealer.
I have a 2009 K13GT beemer which I would like to pit against a C14 just to see what happens plus I have a ZX14 and 2 ZRX kawasaki's.
I seem to ride the wifes Honda 919 a lot now.
Also have a No-Mar tire changer and balancer at the house and a lift so an old fat guy does not have to lay on the ground.
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I have had 6 different dealers here in Colorado let me test ride a bike. At 2 dealers I was just tire kicking and told them I wasn't buying and they still talked me into test riding a bike (a Wing and a R1200R). I definitely test rode a C14 before buying. I'm surprised as well when I hear about people not being able to do this.
I'm quite surprised at the difficulties that you guys in the US have to test drive a bike, being such a (at least in my mind) dynamic economy in which consumism plays a huge roll. I live in Germany (which as far as I know is, together with Japan and the US, one of the most consumist societies in the world), and having a test ride is as simple as filling a form (name, address, and....errrr.... that's it) and leaving your driving license at the dealer for the hour or two that you're out. Every now and then they ask for a fee (about 10 euros = 13 US dollars) for ensurance or fuel, depending if you ever did business with them or not. Before getting my 1400GTR I tried everything out there, from a Bandit 1250S to a Yamaha FJR, but funnily enough, I couldn't get my hands on a K1300GT :-X (sales guy at the BMW dealer was a §"$%&)
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I think when I was in the market for an ST the 13GT wasnt out yet and the R12RT wasnt my style. I might head back there next season to see if they will deal on a S1000RR. Even if it is a little more than getting it at another BMW dealer it is nice to have a good dealer to fall back on.
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NEXT CLOSEST DEALER IS IN CAPE GIRADO.
This is only my 2nd beemer and the R was not for me. I had a 2004 K1200GT and got rid of it for my 14 Ninja. I did not care for the new K1200GT but when the 13 came out it was a whole different bike.
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NEXT CLOSEST DEALER IS IN CAPE GIRADO.
This is only my 2nd beemer and the R was not for me. I had a 2004 K1200GT and got rid of it for my 14 Ninja. I did not care for the new K1200GT but when the 13 came out it was a whole different bike.
The BMW dealer in Cape Girardeau seemed like a bunch of uppity jackwagons when I called about getting a new tire. I was coming through and figured I would try and they said that the tire (front PR2) would be $250 installed. I asked how much they charged for the tire and and if I could pull my wheel and bring it in. He asked what kind of bike I had, and I told him I was on a C14. He said "oh, we won't work on those, the wheels are different." I said "they are round aren't they?" and hung up. I ended up going to the NoMar shop in St Louis and they had me in and out within 20 minutes and it cost me $160.
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I don't think I have ever heard of anybody complaining about No-Mar. I have their tire changer in my garage and the only thing I will not do is tires with tubes just because I hate them. I better add a Gold Wing wheel to the not do list.
I have a lift at the house so it makes tire changes even easier which makes old fat guys like me even happier.
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I stopped in the local BMW dealer today and they offered me a test ride on the 12rt or k16 which ever I wanted or both and it was 26 degrees and snowing. I politely declined and said I would take them up on a nicer day.
I partook of their nice assortment of free drinks and left.
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I love my 2001 Concours but when I looked at it I was riding the KZ, I asked if I could test ride it, it had been sitting for almost 2 years in the showroom, he literally laughed at me, paused, saw I was serious, and said "NO WAY". I bought the bike anyway simply because it was such a good deal, I don't regret it but this whole talk of test rides is so foreign to me, it just doesn't happen around here. NE Ohio.
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I took my grandson into the local BMW shop (Morton's) here in Fredericksburg, VA a few weeks ago to look at police bikes as they usually have one or two in the lineup. One salesman that's been there for years saw my interest in the big boy there and asked did I want to ride it. Told him it was a plot to get me to buy it and we had a few laughs but then asked if I had any questions and went on to the next customer (no shortage there). Nice people and if I were to buy a BMW it would be from them. They will let you test ride just about anything where the other dealers will hardly let you sit on one, let alone test ride it.
I had an encounter with these guys on the phone. They knew full well I wasn't coming in, but their mechanic talked to me for 10-20 minutes on how to maintain a F650GS that I had recently acquired. Nice enough place. I've had good experiences at many places, though.
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The BMW dealer in St. Louis was doing tune-up work on a friends R-Modellast year just before a "Big" rally he had planned to attend. They could not get the parts needed to complete the repairs. They loaned him a K1600GTL to take to the Smokies :-*
He was gone about 5 days and returned it unscathed, but the break-in was COMPLETE!!!
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I'm twitching for a sportbike after selling my track bike and R1, so i purposely have been avoiding our BMW/Triumph/Ducati/Aprilia dealer