Author Topic: Why is mine a pig?  (Read 11059 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2016, 07:59:55 AM »
Unintended consequence, it's going to put you a tad higher in the saddle..
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Offline ridinsandy

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2016, 02:30:37 PM »


Ok, I bought the C14 new, set static sag, (still not right), broke it in for 500 miles, changed the fluids, and then took a 1600 mile trip.

This thing just doesn't like to turn. It takes a lot of effort to start a turn, and requires a lot of effort to keep it in a turn.It may be just the C14 weighs 700+ plus lbs vs the 440 of the Aprilia, (or my previous Honda VFR) but I think there is more too it.



rrsperry, I too am a relatively new owner.  I bought my left-over 2014 in April, and despite my best intentions only managed to put 4500 miles on her before the (too) cold weather.  I agree that the C14 requires much more effort to maintain its lean in certain corners, and it is quite unlike my Ducati ST4s or VFR-750.  However, after reading about a hundred posts about the BS tires, I decided to follow everyone's advice and try some PR4 GTs, with the 190/55 rear.  They are sitting in the garage waiting patiently for Spring. 

The reason for this post is simply to refresh all you longtime riders' memories as to what this bike feels like when compared to a lighter bike.  Especially the heavy steering, which lets be honest, is significantly worse than many comparable bikes.  I'm not sorry I bought her, but I am looking forward to trying the new tires in 2017!

SandyT

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2016, 03:41:30 PM »
Totally right..but I've never ridden a 'lighter' bike.  All of mine have been heavy weights.  Although I've never had issues with the handling because this is the best handling bike I've ever had.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2016, 04:06:29 PM »
No one has sed this, but do the obvious before going to a 55 series rear. (which raises the rear)
Drop the front about an inch and give it a try. You may be pleasantly surprised.

The 50 vs 55 is nowhere near an inch difference in height (which is MAJOR).  I would caution against lowering just the front that much.  Simulating the rear-only tire size change is something like less than 0.2"?

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2016, 04:21:21 PM »
The reason for this post is simply to refresh all you longtime riders' memories as to what this bike feels like when compared to a lighter bike.  Especially the heavy steering, which lets be honest, is significantly worse than many comparable bikes.

I came off a MUCH lighter bike- a ZRX1100 (which was still quite powerful).   And I don't think the steering on the C14 feels that much more difficult or heavier.  One of the other many differences with the C14 vs. smaller bikes will be the longer wheelbase.  60" on the C14 vs 50" on the ZRX!  That is a huge difference, and it will make the C14 more comfortable when going over pavement disturbances, but will also make turning a bit slower.  Most sport bikes are in the 55" range.  Of course, the longer wheelbase also means an increased ability to brake hard without lifting the rear wheel.

Everything in bike design is a tradeoff/compromise between competing factors.  (Wow- that sounds a lot like what I said in another recent posting).

Quote
I'm not sorry I bought her, but I am looking forward to trying the new tires in 2017!

I will cross my fingers for you!  It certainly should help some, and part of it might be just getting used to the C14.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2016, 04:35:18 AM »
The 50 vs 55 is nowhere near an inch difference in height (which is MAJOR).  I would caution against lowering just the front that much.  Simulating the rear-only tire size change is something like less than 0.2"?
The 55  is a a 10mm rise over a 50 and couple that with how people compare tires.
No one takes a brand new tire off their bike to replace it with a brand  new tire so going from a worn tire to a new tire is another 10mm.
 This is why people think a 55 is so much better because in reality they are moving to  a   greater than a  3/4 of an inch rise. If you want to compare tires your supposed to go from a new tire to a new tire.

You are correct.   0.8 of an inch rise is very significant.  Most people dont even realize  how much of a change that is (worn out 50 to a new 55).
On top of that most people do not bother to  setup a bikes ride height correctly.

There is nothing wrong with a 55. It is just a more V shaped profile on a C14 rim which I would prefer on a track but not on the street. 

When I got my C14 is I had  to hold it down  in a turn- It wanted to return to upright.  It took new springs and proper sag settings to set up the bike correctly.
If you do not setup the  bike for your weight and the weight you are  carrying    the  bike will feel heavy and slow or if you jack up the back or drop the front by an inch it will steer   quicker and feel snappy and light.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2016, 05:49:41 AM »
No one takes a brand new tire off their bike to replace it with a brand  new tire so going from a worn tire to a new tire

Yes, and that makes more difference than just about anything.  There is much more feel difference between a worn tire and new tire of the same model than ever there is between differing new tires.  And that ride feel (not stickiness or traction, just feel) difference is due to the change of height and shape of the tire.  All tires are going to wear in height, just at different rates.  So the main difference is the shape change over time, and that can vary a lot depending on tire design (and the way the rider wore it).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline just gone

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2016, 09:17:17 AM »
..... because in reality they are moving to  a   greater than a  3/4 of an inch rise..... .

I'm certainly no expert in these matters but, didn't you forget to divide by 2? 
 (because only half of the increased diameter is between the pavement and the axle.)


Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2016, 12:02:08 AM »
Um, call me crazy but maybe his rear preload is backed way off and it's raked out like a chopper?  Crank that preload up some and see how that does. 

When we went out west for our little 4900 mile jaunt this year, I left the preload where it normally is, but the weight of packing for a big trip settle the back down, so it was chopperesque. That made it stable on the slab from Peoria to the mountains. Once we got off the slab and prepared to head up Mt Evans, I added more preload and voila, transformed motorcycle.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2016, 06:11:13 AM »
I'm certainly no expert in these matters but, didn't you forget to divide by 2? 
 (because only half of the increased diameter is between the pavement and the axle.)

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Offline BruceR

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2016, 08:16:35 AM »
Well, aside from proper suspensions settings (do a search on this site for some good baselines), a Penske Rear shock and AK20 cartridges in front will do wonders.  I was gonna suggest getting the new steerings stem bearings from the '15-'16 model but you already have that.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2016, 07:35:01 PM »
No one has sed this, but do the obvious before going to a 55 series rear. (which raises the rear)
Drop the front about an inch and give it a try.
You may be pleasantly surprised.

Ride safe, Ted

Clarification;
In my previous post I didn't say the 55 made the rear 1" higher.
I sed drop the front 1" so you could feel the difference in handling.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline rrsperry

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2016, 09:34:33 AM »
All things being equal, I'd rather raise the back of the bike than lower the front. Doesn't lowering the front bring the front wheel much closer to the radiator when you really compress the suspension? Besides, I can easily flat foot the bike now, adding 1" in back isn't going to bother me at all.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2016, 06:17:47 PM »
Lowering the front is a temporary way of seeing if the handling improves.
Buying a tire and installing it is more long term.

Ted

Offline Sharkey55

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2017, 12:09:56 PM »
Tires definitely make a big difference but more importantly is the suspension tuning.  I took mine to a shop that specializes in high end suspension and suspension tuning.  They measure your suspension with you on the bike and tune it appropriately.  I went from having to wrestle my bike into a corner into the most effortless cornering I have experienced in my riding life. 
Honestly, I was skeptical going in but had a 'what could I lose' attitude and I have been raving ever since.
In North West area?
https://www.rmrsuspensions.com

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2017, 01:34:57 PM »
Did they change internal components, or install shocks, or did they just adjust it ?

Ride safe, Ted

Offline Sharkey55

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Re: Why is mine a pig?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2017, 05:35:04 PM »
No parts were replaced.  Just adjustment based on rider weight on the bike.  Seems so simple but dramatically different ride in the corners.