Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Jeremy Mitchell on August 01, 2011, 08:41:36 PM
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I haven't been able to find any pics of a Stebel Nautilus installed on a C14. I remember seeing some on the other forum, but I am wondering if anyone here has any they can post up. I will probably install mine this weekend and I would like to make it as painless as possible. Thanks for any help.
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I haven't been able to find any pics of a Stebel Nautilus installed on a C14. I remember seeing some on the other forum, but I am wondering if anyone here has any they can post up. I will probably install mine this weekend and I would like to make it as painless as possible. Thanks for any help.
I think your search skills are in need of improvement!!
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=286.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=286.0)
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Thanks anyway, I will go work on my forum search skills now. ::)
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I just mounted a Stebel horn, but instead of mounting the whole horn, I separated the horn from the compressor.
The compressor is mounted under the right hand inner cover in front of the Rostra CC and the horn is mounted on the rear of the left front fork.
The horn is connected to the compressor by a length of plastic tube.
Oddly enough the ID of the horn when separated from the compressor is the same as the OD of the front forks.
unfortunately the NetNazi's here at work will not allow me to connect to my Smugmug account to get pix, so I will upload pix when I get home.
Until then here is where I got the original idea.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/fz6-mods/343461-hidden-stebel-nautilus-horn-install.html (http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/fz6-mods/343461-hidden-stebel-nautilus-horn-install.html)
It's a bit of work to do but since space is a premium this gives you some options. Plus it gets the horn out from under the plastic.
I can detect no delay with the separated horn(the OEM horn is still operational) and it is LOUD!
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Thanks anyway, I will go work on my forum search skills now. ::)
The link I provided should have all the answers to your questions, no?
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... but instead of mounting the whole horn, I separated the horn from the compressor. ...
I did this, too... but then I found a unit with 2 horns that I used instead. I still have the separated unit in my garage, so I will have to try it out... as the plastic muffles too much of the horn I have there now, methinks.
At least the wiring is done, so I just have to mount the thing!
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Pix for Stebel fork leg mount.
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The link I provided should have all the answers to your questions, no?
Yes the link was good, I was just saying that I was gonna work on my research skills so I wouldn't inconvenience you again.
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Pix for Stebel fork leg mount.
WOW! OK, now that is new. You should post that on the other thread.... the one hard to find by typing "stebel" in the search box ;)
You are far more daring than I... I would not have thought to disassemble my new horn that way, although I was thinking about a two piece air horn instead (like my previous bike) but I couldn't think of a place/way to even mount a small separated horn. Kudos, kudos, kudos (well, also to the guy first thinking of the separation too)! Looks like you mounted the compressor EXACTLY the same way I did. It was so much work taking the bike apart and mounting everything, I don't think I will change it at this point. But I wish you were here/had posted when it was the hot topic. Oh well!
Now, the question is, which method will Jeremy use? The easier way with more muffle, or the harder way with FULL BLAST EFFEECT!
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Hey, thanks for the kind words. I wish I could take credit for this idea, but people a lot smarter than me thinks all this stuff up.
I'm very appreciative they take time to share their knowledge so folks like me can benefit from it.
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Okay, I went to the link and it stated to unlock the 2 tabs on the side (are they hidden?) and one on the top and pull them apart. Been trying to do that for the past 20 minutes but it would not release. I also tried using a flat head screw driver to pry the top tab, but I'm afraid I might brake the top plastic tab. What tool(s) did you use to separate the horn from the compressor? Does the compressor slide down once you pry or release the tab or did you pull them apart when you did your install?
Thanks in advance
SonnyC
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To remove or separate the horn from the compressor do take note that there are only two (2) plastic tabs. One tab is on the top and the other is on the right side near the top of the small plastic air duct. I used a screw driver to pry away the top tab from the compressor and another flat head screw driver to pry the side tab away from the compressor body. Then I pulled straight UP to separate the two components.
Tomorrow, the fairings comes off and off to Home Depot to buy the vinyl tubing, barbs, and industrial glue .
Hope this helped and thanks again to RoadKIngX for his posting.
SonnyC
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What SonnyC said!
I have done this enough times before that I forgot that the FZ6 site did not specify exactly how to separate the horn/compressor.
One other point of clarification, You need to hacksaw off the air intake tube from the horn and epoxy/glue it back on the compressor.
This is to keep bugs/dirt/debris/water out of the compressor.
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WOW! OK, now that is new. You should post that on the other thread.... the one hard to find by typing "stebel" in the search box ;)
Now, the question is, which method will Jeremy use? The easier way with more muffle, or the harder way with FULL BLAST EFFEECT!
I did find that thread but I guess when I was at work the pics weren't showing up, that is why I asked for help. Once I got home and saw the thread, I was able to see everything, I do know how to search but I wasn't getting all the info while on a government computer.
Still undecided about which method I will use. I have my grip heater wiring on the left side and all my HID gear is on the right so I might try to mount the whole unit in the left side and aim the horn toward the front tire to get maximum protection from the elements and also keep from muffling the sound too horribly.
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Well, I removed the fairing and I found an evaporative canister(Rectangular and black) with two vacuum lines occupying the space I'm suppose to put the Stebel Nautilus in. What other option do I have? Could I remove the can, plug the lines and not do any harm to the engine? Has anyone installed the stebel nautilus on a California model and if you could be so kind to give some advise.
Thanks,
SonnyC
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Well, I removed the fairing and I found an evaporative canister(Rectangular and black) with two vacuum lines occupying the space I'm suppose to put the Stebel Nautilus in.
Yeah, welcome to my world!
I have not tested it yet, but since I need the room for a Rostra CC, and two Stebel compressors I'm determined to get rid of that canister that wasn't supposed to be on my bike in the first place >:( . I'm going to plug the "green line" and put a breather type filter on the "blue line". I'll let you know how it works but it might be a few days.
edit too many months later: I'll let you know how it works but it might be a few days.
I did and it works fine, no performance or gas mileage problems nor any "mystery" problems. Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.
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I'm eager to know how it turns out with the removal of your canister. It there is no adverse effect, I'll do the same so that I can add more farkles.
SonnyC
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Guys,
I mounted mine under the left side fairing.
I made a "L" bracket out of a piece of aluminum and mounted it to frame.
There is just enough room to get all the plastic back on there.
later,
C-14 Pilot
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Cut off (hacksaw) the air duct intake from the horn and glued it to the compressor. I used a 1/4X1/8 threaded hose bard per RoadKingX and used a 1/8 NPT tap on the horn. Telflon taped and threaded the barb to the horn body. I mounted the red relay that came with the Stebel Nautilus on the right side just behind the foam and using the OEM M5 45mm long bolt. I'm using the horn wiring harness I got from Twisted Throttle. Connected the wire from the positive terminal of the SN to #87 relay terminal, connected the red wire (hot) with the fuse holder from the positive battery to the relay terminal #30, connected the short black wire from the SN negative terminal and grounded it to the bike's frame on the left side.
Here is were I need advise: I still want the OEM horn to work in conjunction with the Stebel Nautilus. The instruction on my PNP harness states to connect the black wire (connected to Relay #85) to the OEM horn ground wire. I looked at the horn and it did not have a ground wire, and I think the horn bracket serves as the horn's ground. There are only two wires from the OEM horn a Black/White and a Brown/Black both of which are HOT or positive. The instructions also states to connect the blue wire (connected to Relay #86) to the OEM + horn wire. How do I make this happen? Any special splicing connector needed? Thanks.
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The Black and white wire leaves the horn and goes to the horn button on the left handlebar, when you press the button it connects to ground. So, the blue wire that is connected to relay terminal 86 goes to the original horn Brown and black wire. The black wire from relay terminal 85 goes to the original horn black and white wire. This will have the relay activation coil electrically attached in parallel with the original horn, so that when you press the horn button, current will flow through both the original horn and the relay activation coil which will then activate the Stebel.
You may be able to slip the connectors that comes with the TT harness into the original horns wiring connection if you open that (female) connector so that it can take two (male) blade connectors at the same time. (this type of situation is where "kinky" and "horny" all came about.)
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Here is the wiring diagram I used to connect the Stebel
http://www.bikerhiway.com/installinfo/stebel/wiringdiagram.pdf (http://www.bikerhiway.com/installinfo/stebel/wiringdiagram.pdf)
Positive from the battery to 87 terminal.
30 terminal to the positive tab on the compressor.
Negative tab on the compressor to ground.
Soldered into the two wires coming from the OEM horn and
connected them to the 85 & 86 terminals.
I don't think it makes any difference which wire goes to which terminal.
I hacked into the horn wires where they enter the bike harness right under
the right top cover. Pix below show blue & gray wires where I came out if the
harness.
Hope this helps since I'm not sure how your purchased harness is wired.
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Finally, it is done. I had to do it twice! Originally installed it on the left side near the tank and behind the top foam. Had all the wires connected and tested it. When I was reinstalling the middle fairing, I found the compressor was on the way by about an1 inch. Go to Plan "B". Remove compressor, fabricate a mount using a 2"X4"X1/8 flat aluminum and drilled two holes. Top hole was bolted to the left side of the stress frame. Bottom hole is where I mounted the compressor. The horn was zip tied, and taped (industrial 2 sided tape) to the top of the left fork with the baffle oriented to the right of the bike. Vinyl tube is about 2.5 ft. Made sure the hot wire was away from exhaust header. Tomorrow I'll test the mounting stability by riding to Los Angeles and I know I'll have ample opportunities to blast away at some crazy cagers in LA. See pictures.
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Guys,
I mounted mine under the left side fairing.
I made a "L" bracket out of a piece of aluminum and mounted it to frame.
There is just enough room to get all the plastic back on there.
later,
C-14 Pilot
Did you mount it to the forward fastener for the frame brace, right in front of the coolant tank? That is where mine is mocked up and it looks like it will work nicely. I just have to wait for my son to wake up from his nap before I can start testing to make sure all my wiring is correct.
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I just have to wait for my son to wake up from his nap before I can start testing to make sure all my wiring is correct.
Make sure all your neighbors' children are also awake too... :)
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To Jeremy,
Yes, I did indeed mounted the compressor section on the forward bolt on the frame brace. Funny think, my dog was taking a nap in the garage while I was working on the bike. When I was done, I hit the horn button...let me tell you, with the horn section mounted in front of the radiator...it was very loud...my choc. lab must have jumped 2 feet in the air with a look of sheer terror on its face. I hope I did not do any permanent psychological damage to my pooch. Later this afternoon, off to LA and its famous traffic. I know I'll have opportunities to really test it there.
SonnyC
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I got everything mounted up. The Stebel is plenty loud where I have it. It doesn't sound muffled at all. It is actually louder than the one I had on my last bike. It is protected fairly well from the elements and the sound comes out the left fairing and through the radiator. My son absolutely loves it!
I will say that Murph's Stebel wiring kit is top notch (two thumbs up Murph). I did have to lengthen the hot and ground wires for the Stebel since I mounted it in a different location than normal, but the kit made everything a breeze. I just cut and formed some steel plate to act as my mounting bracket and keep everything clear of the header and cooling fans.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m245/flygirl5485/IMAG0044.jpg)
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I got everything mounted up. The Stebel is plenty loud where I have it.
I looked at that location when mounting mine and rejected it because it is too close to the extremely hot exhaust header. I felt it would cause premature failure. Maybe it won't, but I wasn't willing to take that chance.
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That looks good. I like what you did with the wires. What is that black thing around the wires? Is it heat shrink or some kind of heat shield? What kind/brand? So far I've taken the bike for a 200+ mile ride to Los Angeles yesterday, 40 miles in traffic and had to lane split. So far nothing has melted yet.
SonnyC
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SonnyC, it is just regular wire loom. I think I have everything spaced far enough away to not have to worry about heat damage.
Maxtog, if my electric fans have survived 30+ thousand miles even closer to the header then I think the Stebel should be ok.
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Maxtog, if my electric fans have survived 30+ thousand miles even closer to the header then I think the Stebel should be ok.
That is a valid point, although there are many different types of plastics and composition.
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I just mounted a Stebel horn, but instead of mounting the whole horn, I separated the horn from the compressor.
The compressor is mounted under the right hand inner cover in front of the Rostra CC and the horn is mounted on the rear of the left front fork.
The horn is connected to the compressor by a length of plastic tube.
Until then here is where I got the original idea.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/fz6-mods/343461-hidden-stebel-nautilus-horn-install.html (http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/fz6-mods/343461-hidden-stebel-nautilus-horn-install.html)
It's a bit of work to do but since space is a premium this gives you some options. Plus it gets the horn out from under the plastic.
I can detect no delay with the separated horn(the OEM horn is still operational) and it is LOUD!
Separating the compressor is a great idea for this horn!
I separated mine as well and mounted the compressor (as many others have) under the right side cover in front of my Rostra CC. Taking a note from Fred H.'s inner fairing install of his Gold Wing horns, I found that the Stebel Nautilus plastic horn fit well in roughly the same spot. It's just an experiment for now so pardon the shoddy work. When the inner cover is attached the foam compresses and the horn is fairly stable but not rigidly mounted. Accordingly (not pictured) I put some foam between the horn and the right front turn signal wires to protect them from the pipe fittings. I used 12 gauge wire straight from the battery (using an inline 30 amp fuse close to the battery connection) to the relay and left the original horn in the circuit. The horn seems to work fine so far. After a month or so I'll go back in and tiddy things up and may actually seal the horn opening better with some closed cell foam. If all goes well I think I'll get a Harbor Freight version of the Stebel Nautilus (http://www.harborfreight.com/bad-boy-air-horn-94117.html) and install it on the other side.
(http://fartymarty.smugmug.com/photos/i-p7snf7S/0/X3/i-p7snf7S-X3.jpg)
(http://fartymarty.smugmug.com/photos/i-d38cGbd/0/X3/i-d38cGbd-X3.jpg)
(http://fartymarty.smugmug.com/photos/i-CCThFHc/0/X3/i-CCThFHc-X3.jpg)
(http://fartymarty.smugmug.com/photos/i-rx8HQ7w/0/X3/i-rx8HQ7w-X3.jpg)
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Separating the compressor is a great idea for this horn!
I separated mine as well and mounted the compressor (as many others have) under the right side cover in front of my Rostra CC. Taking a note from Fred H.'s inner fairing install of his Gold Wing horns, I found that the Stebel Nautilus plastic horn fit well in roughly the same spot. It's just an experiment for now so pardon the shoddy work. When the inner cover is attached the foam compresses and the horn is fairly stable but not rigidly mounted. Accordingly (not pictured) I put some foam between the horn and the right front turn signal wires to protect them from the pipe fittings. I used 12 gauge wire straight from the battery (using an inline 30 amp fuse close to the battery connection) to the relay and left the original horn in the circuit. The horn seems to work fine so far. After a month or so I'll go back in and tiddy things up and may actually seal the horn opening better with some closed cell foam. If all goes well I think I'll get a Harbor Freight version of the Stebel Nautilus (http://www.harborfreight.com/bad-boy-air-horn-94117.html) and install it on the other side.
The creativity of the people on this board never stops amazing me :)
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I got everything mounted up. The Stebel is plenty loud where I have it. It doesn't sound muffled at all. It is actually louder than the one I had on my last bike. It is protected fairly well from the elements and the sound comes out the left fairing and through the radiator. My son absolutely loves it!
I will say that Murph's Stebel wiring kit is top notch (two thumbs up Murph). I did have to lengthen the hot and ground wires for the Stebel since I mounted it in a different location than normal, but the kit made everything a breeze. I just cut and formed some steel plate to act as my mounting bracket and keep everything clear of the header and cooling fans.
Figured I'd dredge up this old post rather than a new one....
Jeremy, does this placement have any affect of heat dissipation? I have an '11, and the big opening on the side is really the only way for the heat to get out, since everything else is sealed.
Also, got the Stebel from Murphs, and it seems they have added a plastic covering over the entire horn now, which looks to make it a bit beefier/larger and much harder to separate the compressor from the horn. I was going to go this route, but if it's fine down below I'll do that.
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Figured I'd dredge up this old post rather than a new one....
Jeremy, does this placement have any affect of heat dissipation? I have an '11, and the big opening on the side is really the only way for the heat to get out, since everything else is sealed.
Also, got the Stebel from Murphs, and it seems they have added a plastic covering over the entire horn now, which looks to make it a bit beefier/larger and much harder to separate the compressor from the horn. I was going to go this route, but if it's fine down below I'll do that.
No issues at all. It is up in front of the opening. I don't think I would go through a puddle deep enough to soak the compressor so I am happy I kept the horn together.
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So I seperated mine and now all I get is a low sound like air wrench without enough air comming from compressor... :(
I don't think it has anything to do with the seperation but the fact that I have it wired using factory wiring and it is not getting enough current. I will try it on a car batt to see if that is indeed the problem. Do you guys use existing horn button and wires?
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So I seperated mine and now all I get is a low sound like air wrench without enough air comming from compressor... :(
I don't think it has anything to do with the seperation but the fact that I have it wired using factory wiring and it is not getting enough current. I will try it on a car batt to see if that is indeed the problem. Do you guys use existing horn button and wires?
I use the existing horn wires ONLY to trigger a relay that gets power from a 30 AMP circuit (that I installed from the battery), the relay then powers the Stebel. When I checked the amp draw using a battery charger before my install it was a little over 15 amps (edit: specs say 18 amps), so I'm fairly certain you are correct, that it is not getting enough current. I'm kinda surprised that you haven't blown a fuse using the existing circuit. Using a relay will let you not only keep the original horn, but will also help your horn button to last for the life of the bike. I could be wrong (heated gear?) but I think the only thing that draws more current than a Stebel is the starter motor.
(http://www.gadgetjq.com/airhorn_wiring_diagram.jpg)
http://www.ehow.com/video_4874551_wire-relay.html (http://www.ehow.com/video_4874551_wire-relay.html)
http://www.gadgetjq.com/airhorn.htm (http://www.gadgetjq.com/airhorn.htm)
http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/diy/diy-stebel-nautilus-air-horn/ (http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/diy/diy-stebel-nautilus-air-horn/)
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Just an FYI, Murphs has a wiring harness that will allow you to keep the original horn in the loop and it makes installation a breeze. $20 well spent IMO.
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Just an FYI, Murphs has a wiring harness that will allow you to keep the original horn in the loop and it makes installation a breeze. $20 well spent IMO.
Totally agreed. I bought that harness and it is nice. I love having BOTH horns, because it is yet more sound. Plus I can tap the horn button super-fast and get a "beep" out of the OEM without resorting to the full megablast.
One should *NOT* attempt to run the Stebel Nautilus horn through the factory switch/wiring. It requires far too much current, so the voltage will drop greatly, causing the horn to be weak, if it works at all. It will also wear out the factory horn switch. Always use a relay and connect directly (fused, of course) to the battery.
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Got my Stebel mounted and wired this weekend. I mounted it on the lower left right behind the radiator like C14-Pilot and Jeremy did. I have a 2011 though, so was concerned with it blocking the heat venting out the side. Don't think it will be much of a problem though, and since it's mounted low and outside, I don't get the noise blast if mounted on the upper right.
Used Murphs mounting harness and like everyone says, it is the best and easiest, and having the OEM horn is a plus. I added some wire to extend it a bit to fit my install
Here are some pic of the install. Not totally happy with the relay placement, so it may get moved.
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Got my Stebel mounted and wired this weekend. I mounted it on the lower left right behind the radiator like C14-Pilot and Jeremy did. I have a 2011 though, so was concerned with it blocking the heat venting out the side. Don't think it will be much of a problem though, and since it's mounted low and outside, I don't get the noise blast if mounted on the upper right.
Used Murphs mounting harness and like everyone says, it is the best and easiest, and having the OEM horn is a plus. I added some wire to extend it a bit to fit my install
Here are some pic of the install. Not totally happy with the relay placement, so it may get moved.
I've never pulled the lower side fairing to get access to that area. How much of a pain is it? Anything that I should look out for?
Rather than add wire to get back to the battery, couldn't you connect it to the power connections that are hidden under the L/H glove box?
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Figured I'd dredge up this old post rather than a new one....
Jeremy, does this placement have any affect of heat dissipation? I have an '11, and the big opening on the side is really the only way for the heat to get out, since everything else is sealed.
Also, got the Stebel from Murphs, and it seems they have added a plastic covering over the entire horn now, which looks to make it a bit beefier/larger and much harder to separate the compressor from the horn. I was going to go this route, but if it's fine down below I'll do that.
I really wanted to separate mine, until I saw the extra plastic that's now on these horns. It's noticiable when you compare your pictures to Jeremy's. I wanted to get that horn down from behind the fairing and pointing more forward, but it's just too big to do that with the compressor still connected.
Will provide pics of my install when I decide exactly where and how I'm going to do it.
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A
I've never pulled the lower side fairing to get access to that area. How much of a pain is it? Anything that I should look out for?
Rather than add wire to get back to the battery, couldn't you connect it to the power connections that are hidden under the L/H glove box?
I don't think the accessory leads can handle the power draw. It takes a 15amp fuse to run the horn. Tried a 10amp and it blew.
Real easy to pull the side panels off the 10+ models. Remove the storage box panel, remove a couple of screws and the top side comes off once you release the tab on the bottom.
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I have the Stebel mounted under the right hand side fairing and just need to do the wiring tomorrow. I don't anticipate any issues with that as I bought the wiring harness from Murph when I got the horn.
I took at 4" T-brace, cut off half the top, bent over the other half and mounted this to the two small supports for the heat shielding foam. I would have used an L-brace, but they didn't have one the right size at the Home Deport that I stopped at. A picture is attached.
I then took a small L-brace, trimmed off one leg about half way, and mounted it to the upper rear view mirror bolt. I had to grind off the corner a little due to interference with the structure, but it is a pretty solid attachment point. A picture is attached of that also.
Then I took a piece of aluminum angle, used it to connect the two brackets, and mounted the Stebel to that. It's a pretty stable platform. (The last picture.) The horn doesn't touch the ram air ducting at all. It does look like it will give the rider a pretty good blast when you hit the button, but I'll see how I like it for awhile before deciding if I want to break it into two components and mount the actual horn so that it isn't so confined.
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[quote author=wally_games link=topic=3104.msg90305#msg90305 date=1332054892
-I took at 4" T-brace, cut off half the top, bent over the other half and mounted this to the two small supports for the heat shielding foam.
-I then took a small L-brace, trimmed off one leg about half way, and mounted it to the upper rear view mirror bolt. I had to grind off the corner a little due to interference with the structure, but it is a pretty solid attachment point.
-Then I took a piece of aluminum angle, used it to connect the two brackets, and mounted the Stebel to that.
[/quote]
Damn that is elaborate! Well, at least you have built the most stable looking mount yet. I used a single bar of metal and two bolts :) Still holding well after 9 months..
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=286.msg25285#msg25285 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=286.msg25285#msg25285)
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Damn that is elaborate! Well, at least you have built the most stable looking mount yet. I used a single bar of metal and two bolts :) Still holding well after 9 months...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=post;quote=25285;topic=286.15;last_msg=36736 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=post;quote=25285;topic=286.15;last_msg=36736) (first pic)
I did it in three pieces to get the proper level of the mounting point so that the Stebel would clear the ducting.
If I were starting over, I would have probably used a longer piece of the same aluminum angle and done some cutting and bending, but still use all three of the same connection points with just that one piece.
The top mirror nut is too high, so you have to drop down a little to clear the front part of the plastic. The lower mirror nut is too low and doesn't give you the clearance for the Stebel. You can use either one, but you'll have to bend that end to get the proper level. I liked using the heat shield bracket on the back end, but it too was just a hair low.
But one thing is for SURE, this is one dang loud horn! :o
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But one thing is for SURE, this is one dang loud horn! :o
They are not kidding that you should *NEVER* blast the horn nearby without some kind of hearing protection (helmet, earplugs, or even just fingers).
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RE: Stebel Horn
I have often used Stebel horns on previous sport touring bikes - often by splitting the horn from the compressor, and finding a good location is always the hardest part of the job. After pulling the panels off of my 2010 Connie, I have come to the conclusion that there is not good place for this. I looked at putting the horn behind the radiator, like I've noted here, and I think that this is a ridiculous location. That area makes no sense at all. It's not only hot as hell, placing the horn anywhere in this area defeats the purpose of having a louder horn - ie. behind the radiator. Why not just stuff cotton in the horns to muffle them. Its the same thing.
I've decided to go with twin, dual tone electric horns and mount them in the same location. The stock horn really sucks. If anyone knows of a good dual electric horn that will fit in the location of the existing horn, please message me. I'm on the hunt.
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I've heard these are good....
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=356 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=356)