NRA press Conference

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

  I think the concentration of people in cities has alot to do with it. As our population has grown, so has the need for "personal space" and insuring you're not encroached upon by others. this leads to confrontations of an unintentional bump. Let someone "cut" a line, and it's on!

 I base this on my personal experience. I grew up in a city just outside Boston. I remember a time walking down a busy city sidewalk and I bumped into another guy. He picked up a big rock and threatened to bash my head in. My high school was a good school in an old part of the city. If I missed the bus, I could count on running, chased by the local gangbangers til I cleared their neighborhood.

 Then I moved to rural Florida. Pickup trucks with gun racks in the window.  As I would drive down the road, people in oncoming vehicles would wave to me. I recall wondering "what does HE WANT?" I scowled and refused to wave. Now everyone scowls. I am, regrettably, partially responsible for that lack of friendliness. I brought my northern city attitude to a quiet Florida town. I wish I knew then what I know now, I would wave to everyone and have left that northern attitude behind, because now this is a rural Florida town with a northern scowling attitude. Steve

[Snibbor]

Ok, so how do you explain a country like Switzerland?  Where probably 98% of households have weapons, many of which are in fact "assault" rifles (read: fully automatic).
They have almost no gun crime.

[Nosmo]

Ok, so how do you explain a country like Switzerland?  Where probably 98% of households have weapons, many of which are in fact "assault" rifles (read: fully automatic).
They have almost no gun crime.

Well, that's just the thing.  It is darned difficult if not impossible to explain it.  There are so many thing that go into making a culture, and a nation that the equation is likely beyond anyone's ability to truly understand it. 

As Bart asked:  "What makes a person living to Seattle different from one living in Vancouver or Detroit and Toronto?" 

Well, a lot of things.  No one has yet been able to pin it all down, but those cities ARE different.  We in the U.S. have many subcultures, some geographically influenced like what Steve said, some racially defined, others by economic boundaries.  Weather, money, religion, race, population density, political affiliation, personal and national history, marriage and family statistics all have an effect.  Countries that have large areas like Canada also have this.  Quebec had to be different than Vancouver, if for nothing other than the language difference.  Perhaps the countries that are physically smaller like Switzerland, Sweden, etc., have a different dynamic because their population is condensed into smaller towns that tend to be more homogenous with less internal subcultures to cause friction.  Or not.  New York City probably has more subcultures and enclaves than Switzerland has in their whole country.

[Snibbor]

All true.  So I guess we can say IT ISNT THE GUNS.

[Bart]

No, we cannot simply says it's not the guns. I refuse to believe Americans are evil compared to other countries. It should be obvious that it's easier for the average person to pick up a gun and kill - sometimes kill over and over rather than to kill with other weapons laying around in the average house or car or just carried on the street. We all get angry sometimes and it can be so easy to grab a weapon if one is close at hand.

Again, Americans are NOT evil (or sick) compared to other countries.

[turbojoe78]

No, we cannot simply says it's not the guns. I refuse to believe Americans are evil compared to other countries. It should be obvious that it's easier for the average person to pick up a gun and kill - sometimes kill over and over rather than to kill with other weapons laying around in the average house or car or just carried on the street. We all get angry sometimes and it can be so easy to grab a weapon if one is close at hand.

Again, Americans are NOT evil (or sick) compared to other countries.

So Bart, your saying that it is the guns then? ... That's the problem in America, too easy of access to guns?

I guess I'm not quite sure what your trying to say.

[gPink]

Don't discount 40+ years of dumbed down government education in this country. Add in the generational welfare mindset. And throw in the liberal/democrat plantation mentality. Oh, and the 'where's my check?' attitude that's been fostered in America. Does Canada have all things or or they uniquely American? The Canada reference is absurd.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

We all get angry sometimes and it can be so easy to grab a weapon if one is close at hand.

  Got knives in your house? Your family ever make you mad?  have you slashed up your family yet? let's get real, it takes a special person to commit homicide. For some reason folks who aren't gun owners think everyone with a gun is a potential homicidal maniac; that it makes us feel powerful and superior.  No more so than we all are with the knives in our houses. Think about it, the gun or knife doesn't turn you into a killer. Steve

[stevewfl]

Bart's posts are funny

[twowheeladdict]

No, we cannot simply says it's not the guns. I refuse to believe Americans are evil compared to other countries. It should be obvious that it's easier for the average person to pick up a gun and kill - sometimes kill over and over rather than to kill with other weapons laying around in the average house or car or just carried on the street. We all get angry sometimes and it can be so easy to grab a weapon if one is close at hand.

Again, Americans are NOT evil (or sick) compared to other countries.

Sure we can.  Otherwise, we would see the same rate of gun violence in other countries that have easy access to guns.  It is very easy for a swiss citizen to pick up a gun and use it, but they don't.

We have created a culture of selfish, entitled, the Government is going to take care of me, I'm not responsible citizens. 

I read an article yesterday where a lady backed over her 9 year old daughter because she wasn't responsible enough to make sure the child was actually in the vehicle before she started moving.  She blames the government and the car manufacturers for her lack of responsibility.

I don't have kids at home anymore, but I always open the garage door and look behind the vehicle before I get into it to back out.  You never know what someone may have put there without thinking about it.  I had a BIL back into my wifes car when she was visiting her sister because he just got in his car and backed out of the garage.  My own wife ran over the lawn mower that my son left by the garage door when it ran out of gas. 

I think people are not taught responsibility anymore.  I think people are in too much of a hurry these days.  I think the work ethic in this country has gone downhill.  We took discipline out of the home and the schools.  We took honor out of our society.  Yes, America is going downhill fast.

Why the rise in illnesses of the brain?  Why the rise in allergies?  Why are our daughters going through puberty years earlier than previous generations?  Why do we hold actors and sports players in such high regard?

[Leo]

I saw the same article about the woman who was not paying attention and backed over her 9 year old.  Now she wants everyone else to pay to try to make the world idiot proof.

 That hits to close to home.  We lost a two year old in my family (through marriage) in Sept.  The mother was not paying attention and left kids in an operational car.  And yes, she foolishly chose to be busy with her cell phone rather than being responsible for her actions.   Somehow the car ended up in gear and the toddler was run over.  The local newspapers made it a front page story about irresponsible car companies that are killing the kids.  You cannot believe how many lawyers are trying to get them to sue the car companies for making a car that a child can put in gear.   Sadly, I think they will sue, and I am the black sheep of the family for not supporting the effort.   I am sad of the loss, I am sad of the families grief.  I am sad of the mothers guilt, because really, the whole blame rests on her.

This sick mindset is why we blame inanimate like guns and cars instead of solving the problems. 

[Nosmo]

I saw the same article about the woman who was not paying attention and backed over her 9 year old.  Now she wants everyone else to pay to try to make the world idiot proof.

 That hits to close to home.  We lost a two year old in my family (through marriage) in Sept.  The mother was not paying attention and left kids in an operational car.  And yes, she foolishly chose to be busy with her cell phone rather than being responsible for her actions.   Somehow the car ended up in gear and the toddler was run over.  The local newspapers made it a front page story about irresponsible car companies that are killing the kids.  You cannot believe how many lawyers are trying to get them to sue the car companies for making a car that a child can put in gear.   Sadly, I think they will sue, and I am the black sheep of the family for not supporting the effort.   I am sad of the loss, I am sad of the families grief.  I am sad of the mothers guilt, because really, the whole blame rests on her.

This sick mindset is why we blame inanimate like guns and cars instead of solving the problems.

Leo, that's a large part of the underlying issue.  The average person, call him Mr. Jones, doesn't ever want to blame a human, because that raises the possibility that someday someone can blame Mr. Jones when he screws up.  If we make it a habit/policy to only blame things, then all of the Mr. Joneses in the country can rest secure in the notion that they will not be held responsible, either.  Toyota cars may very well want to accelerate on their own, but the driver has the responsibility to know that all they have to do is put it in neutral to prevent a deadly collision.

At my last job, I made a mistake with a test unit that caused some damage to product.  I told my supervisor, and told him what I had done, and he spent a lot of time trying to find a problem with the test unit, because he just could not accept the fact that I screwed up and was willing to admit it.  That was a new experience for him, because usually the tech's blamed the equipment for their mistakes.

[Outback_Jon]

I saw the same article about the woman who was not paying attention and backed over her 9 year old.  Now she wants everyone else to pay to try to make the world idiot proof.=

I had to explain to my daughter that her car going off the road in the snow this morning was her fault.  Not the fault of her tires, or the snow.  She was simply driving too fast for the conditions.  She said "I was only doing about 20 miles per hour."  Well, is your car still on the road?  No?  Then you were going too fast.  You pushed the gas pedal to make the car go that speed.  You didn't make the corner.  You were driving too fast for the conditions.

Sadly, I don't think I got through to her completely.  I think she's marginally aware that she might have been wrong, but not completely.

[Snibbor]

That's not part of the problem, I believe it's the bulk of the problem.  No one is responsible for their own actions.  It is ALWAYS someone else or something else to blame.

[stevewfl]

That's not part of the problem, I believe it's the bulk of the problem.  No one is responsible for their own actions.  It is ALWAYS someone else or something else to blame.

Legislators know best, so they'll right some new laws soon 

[Snibbor]

Some awfully harsh weather back East today.  We better ban snow before it's too late.  Maybe I could start that petition on the White House website?

[Nosmo]

Slight thread redirection here:

If you think that humans (Americans or otherwise) are basically good, and that bad things "just happen" and people are not to blame, then I submit the following article.  This is not the first time that experiments like this have been conducted and the results are usually along these lines.  Remember, these are your neighbors and co-workers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, parents who are doing this. For fun.

http://www.komonews.com/news/offbeat/College-students-turtle-project-takes-dark-twist-184958711.html

[Bart]

As with most things, the answer is not simple and a multipronged should be taken. We need to start somewhere. As a gun owner I don't want to give them up. But it is obvious that it is easier to kill with a gun than with a knife or other weapon you can easily carry. Who ever heard of road rage knifings from moving vehicles or drive by knifings?

[Nosmo]

No guns involved:

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Woman-set-on-fire-in-LA-as-she-sleeps-on-bench-185002001.html

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Man-pushed-to-death-in-front-of-NYC-subway-train-185006621.html

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-Auburn-man-killed-cousin-over-Christmas-Eve-slight-184997121.html

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Woman-bicyclist-killed-in-hit-and-run-crash-near-Monroe-184931371.html

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Man-wannted-for-sexual-assault-of-elderly-Kirkland-woman-184873901.html

[stevewfl]

On a lighter note.....