Author Topic: ZX 14 TBs and my impression  (Read 26797 times)

Offline wildnphx

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2012, 04:11:56 PM »
I've accepted 2 changes, although nothing bad, it seems every time I do the instant snap isn't quite as instant at lower RPMs, upper RPMs she just rocks the house.  So far the MAP from Fuel Moto seems to be the best for low to mid RPMs.  I'll let a dyno guy set me a good baseline and see what he suggests as some good settings for the AT.

What AFR are you running?  I had the standard 13.2 then in the upper it would do 12.9 but I was going through gas faster then a Dodge V10 Dually truck with two plugged catalytic converters :(

I adjusted the mid range cruising to 13.4, 13.6 and 13.8 and I saw a huge jump in fuel economy (45-50 mpg average on freeway doing 75 mph and 38 - 42 combined city/highway) while performance still seems really really good.  I would really like to know though what the optimal AFR is for fuel economy and if one can use one map with those values for cruising rpm's/throttle openings, and then aggressive AFR's for the higher RPM's/throttle openings to obtain the ultimate performance and economy map all in one instead of switching between two different maps.

This is what my mechanic suggested but he could not tell me the best safe AFR's for fuel economy...

-Kirk


Offline Coomers

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2012, 08:27:59 PM »
That is how the Fuel Moto maps are, economy with less than 20% throttle and power map after 20% throttle. My Roadliner is also set up the same way, works great.

Offline SpazOnaConcours

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2012, 08:38:18 PM »
Nitrous is a pain in the ass on a bike. It would be much easier on the C14 than most bikes, but it's hardly worth the trouble once the initial grin factor wears off. The grin factor from the turbo never goes away. Plus nirtous won't lower your ET at the strip unless you get it on out of the hole. If you wait 'till second gear to spray you'll see almost no drop in ET; you'll just see a boost in MPH. It's really frustrating to run nitrous on a stock wheelbase/stock suspension bike. You'd need more than stock pistons could handle to be faster than a liter bike anyway....... not much call for it unless you just like the way it looks. But I'll install a set-up for anyone if they want to try it. :)

...and I had some pretty shitty luck after my piston swap. I'm not going to call out anybody yet, but I had a partial fuel pump/injector failure that caused some damage while I was out picking on Zx-10Rs. In the middle of fixing that I got laid off, so I just put it all back to stock so I would have something to ride around 'till I get a job again (can't pay rent AND do R&D with no job). In hindsight, stock injectors on a turbo C14 are questionable at best, and you need a -good- fuel pump to support high flow at high pressures...... I won't be trusting anyone's work but my own from now on when it comes to fuel systems. [/rant] Expensive lesson to learn (cost was 2 very nice new forged pistons), but at least I still had good stock ones and an extra header to put it back together.

Back on topic: cruising AFR's can be in the 14's with no issue. Mid to low14's will yield good mileage and usually leave you with enough room to keep it smooth. Anything higher than 14's and you get into diminishing returns with economy... and the driveability starts getting ugly. WOT AFR's for N/A should be in the 12.9-13.2 range for starters. I don't believe in a "economy map" AND a "performance map": If you spend the time tuning you can have both. It only needs to be richer than normal at 75% or so more throttle for performance, and it can be much leaner elsewhere so long as your driveability is acceptable (no lean stumbles or backfires, good on/off throttle transitions). You don't gain a lot making it fat at partial throttles, and most importantly, you're not trying to go fast using partial throttle, right? :) For reference, I ran my zx10 with a good base map at WOT (the stock PC3 map was really close), and tuned just the 100% throttle column to 13.0. Worked well. Then for the nitrous we tuned just the 100% column above 9K rpm (my spray point... it would be lower on a C14 obviously) for 12.5 , and spraying it went back up to a flat 13.0 all the way across. Made +38hp on a .032 dry system jet (and about 5-7 more MPH at the strip back-to-back). The really interesting part? The bike ran better consistently OFF the bottle on the rich nitrous map than it did on the flat 13.0 map (about .7-1.5 mph). Food for thought. :)

Son of Pappy

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2012, 08:54:49 PM »
Great explanation Spaz, makes sense to me.

So, fuel economy wise, I have absolutley no loss in economy cruising or commuting, last fill up was at 220 miles and that just .5 miles after the low warning light came on.  Half was 2up through the Hood Canal route, other half was commute.  Gotta love rolling parking lots >:(  I am going to up the accellerator pump, after the last trim acceptance I have an ever so slight stumble off throttle if I am getting on it.  Not there if I am smooth, but rapid twist brings it on. 

For the record, those who can't afford the turbo upgrade I see no reason why they wouldn't do this relatively frugal upgrade, it is almost as nice of an upgrade as pulling the flies and a PCIII was.  TBs can be had fairly cheap and since most who have pulled the flies have the PCV, all you need is time and the AT or a dyno tune and you too can be ripping on slow black bikes ;D

Offline wildnphx

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2012, 01:41:25 AM »
Thanks Spaz that s exactly the kind of info I was looking for...  What is this accelerator pump feature I'm hearing about?  Is this only on PC3 or on PCV as well?

Offline SpazOnaConcours

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Re: ZX 14 TBs and my impression
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2012, 04:42:00 PM »
The Accelerator Pump feature (AP for short) attempts to emulate the function of an accelerator pump on a carburetor. Being that carbs require airflow to meter fuel, they can become momentarily lean when you make big throttle openings. The accelerator pump is a mechanical device that meters fuel directly when the the throttle is opening without regard to airflow through the carb. The AP function on the PC3/PCV (I don't even remember if the PCV has it, actually) allows you to deliver fuel based solely rapid TPS changes for a certain amount of engine cycles. The idea is that you can try to "smooth" out off/on throttle lean spots (snatch or hesitation) by adjusting it. I've never had a lot of luck with it myself, and it usually impacts fuel economy noticeably when in use.