When will Kawasaki put the new ZX14R Engine in the C-14?

[martin_14]

As for a muffler swap making any significant difference in performance on a stock Concours.... someone will have to show me verified dyno charts before and after.  Otherwise, I will continue to believe what is most logical!   

my dear American fellowman, (sorry, couldn't resist!  )
as I posted before, I bought the Remus Hexacone Ti based only on looks, weight savings and sound. Now that I have it, the sound just melts my soul every single time I start the engine. It also looks great, and I think since I bought it I put enough weight on myself to offset the gains from changing the muffler 
But to your inquiry about verified dyno charts before and after, a German magazine recently tried some 15 different slip ons available for a 600 motorcycle, don't remember what. Changes were between 0,3 and 2,6% extra power/torque. Weight reduction in the mufflers compared to the original where between 20 and 60%. In absolute terms, a few pounds. Nothing huge, but still...

[maxtog]

my dear American fellowman, (sorry, couldn't resist!  ) 

!!!!  (you are forgiven)

But to your inquiry about verified dyno charts before and after, a German magazine recently tried some 15 different slip ons available for a 600 motorcycle, don't remember what. Changes were between 0.3 and 2.6% extra power/torque.  Nothing huge, but still...

I will be more careful to qualify in the future    Of course, that is one reason I did use the word "significant", which instantly lets me decide what amount that is!      One thing for sure, .3% to 1% is probably not even *statistically* significant within the margin of error for measuring power on most setups.  Even 2.6% is nothing anyone would ever notice, so I would call it "insignificant".   The *theory* that people use is that the stock muffler is restrictive to flow (which would seem to have face validity).  Yet, even if true, it would be restrictive only or mostly at the higher flow rates- high RPM.  With those stats, if they were true, and linear, it would mean a possible improvement in power, best case, rising from 0 at RPM to 2.6% at redline!   Yawn.  If we were to take an average of the results from the German source, that would be 1.15%.  If linear, at 6,000 RPM (which is fairly spirited driving for a 1400), that would be around  0.7% or something like that, we are talking less than 1 hp.  Again... yawn.

Besides I would want to see such charts for the Concours, not for some 600.  Big difference in machines.

[KawiG]

I will be more careful to qualify in the future    Of course, that is one reason I did use the word "significant", which instantly lets me decide what amount that is!      One thing for sure, .3% to 1% is probably not even *statistically* significant within the margin of error for measuring power on most setups.  Even 2.6% is nothing anyone would ever notice, so I would call it "insignificant".   The *theory* that people use is that the stock muffler is restrictive to flow (which would seem to have face validity).  Yet, even if true, it would be restrictive only or mostly at the higher flow rates- high RPM.  With those stats, if they were true, and linear, it would mean a possible improvement in power, best case, rising from 0 at RPM to 2.6% at redline!   Yawn.  If we were to take an average of the results from the German source, that would be 1.15%.  If linear, at 6,000 RPM (which is fairly spirited driving for a 1400), that would be around  0.7% or something like that, we are talking less than 1 hp.  Again... yawn.

Besides I would want to see such charts for the Concours, not for some 600.  Big difference in machines.
[/quote]    DUDE>>>>TMI!!!

[maxtog]

    DUDE>>>>TMI!!!

Sorry, I know.... I really am TMI sometimes.  Or is that just payback for the TMI I threw at you about your dual-location pressing on the glass and leaving smudges in that other thread??   

[KawiG]

 

[martin_14]

@Maxtog: I re-read my post, yeap, not only I meant "not huge" but also "not significant". I think I get the same performance-boost by wearing thinner socks...

@KawiG: What's TMI? 

[VirginiaJim]

Too Much Information?

[maxtog]

Too Much Information?

Yep.

OMG DQMOT but DYK? BLNT GTG BBFN!

http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp

[tchinkov]

I have to agree with many of the others.  To me, the Concours is plenty powerful enough to do anything I would ever want or need.  And no affordable ST can currently out perform it.  I am more focused on reliability, efficiency, and comfort, which is what VVT, lower end tuning, shaft drive, etc offer.  The Concours offers an excellent combination of power/performance, fuel economy, and drivability backed by the industry's best warranty.

If Kawasaki wants to be creative, they should listen to the myriad of suggestions on the board, already- things like CRUISE CONTROL, HID LIGHTING, more adjustability for bars and seats, 100% LED lighting, built-in tip-over protection, and refined KIPASS that lets you unlock EVERYTHING without a key, not just the ignition.  And consider options for even more stuff ST riders often want: alarm, nav, com, and convenience lighting come to mind.

Of course, I am certainly not opposed to increased power, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of reliability, efficiency, and comfort. 

+1

[tomp]

+1 on Maxtog's reply.  I love my 14, enough power to overwhelm me already.  Cruise control and a better seat would be all I would like for my 08.  Went to buy an FZ-09 a while back, and the insurance for it was three times what I am paying for the C14, and it is under 1K cc's.  The cost to insure a C14 with 200 HP, would make it unapproachable for me and so many other potential owners, I imagine.  To me, if one wants HP, get a ZX14R, a PanigaleR/S or a BMW S1000RR.  Or go crazy and get a new H2 or R1M.  Insurance be damned, for those models, all right at 200HP or more, much more...   tp

FWIW, I'm just too old to enjoy 200 HP on the street, any longer.  tp

[Deziner]

If you want or "need" more power, get your wallet out. If it's that important,  it shouldn't be a big deal to you to pay for it. Oh, wait, I forgot.  You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueles.   

[tomp]

  You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueless.

Agree.  After 30 years in specialty sales I retired and went back into retail as a supplement to SS income .  Customers want EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING, these days.  I have to tell them, "Ain't gonna happen, Sir/Ma'am".  Seems folks don't want it now, they want it yesterday, at decades ago prices.  Get Real, is all that can be said....  tp

[Rhino]

If you want or "need" more power, get your wallet out. If it's that important,  it shouldn't be a big deal to you to pay for it. Oh, wait, I forgot.  You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueles.

Of course you can't get something for nothing. But what I could see as a possibility is Kawi building a Gen 3 C14 around the stroked 1441 cc engine. Just like they did with the original C14 from the original ZX14 and its 1352cc engine. Not 200hp like the ZX14R but ~150hp at the rear wheel stock instead of ~138hp. They are getting a lot of competition from other manufacturers and it is a game of one-up-manship. "Fasted sport touring bike period" would be another check mark for all the magazine reviews and keep them at the top of the game. Not the only reason but one of the main reasons I went with my 2010 C14 instead of a K1300GT, R1200RT, FJR or ST1300 was that this was the fastest bike in its class at the time. I suspect I'm not the only one.

[tomp]

Not the only reason but one of the main reasons I went with my 2010 C14 instead of a K1300GT, R1200RT, FJR or ST1300 was that this was the fastest bike in its class at the time. I suspect I'm not the only one.

I got mine because of the great deal offered to me.  Haven't regretted owning it for a second, except maybe for the stupid flashing dash, warning tire sensor batteries are bad when it gets cold.  Thank God it only gets cold a few days a year here. 
BTW, you still enjoying the Hill Country?   tomp

[connie14boy]

Everyone here knows that the C-14 is probably the best and most durable engine in it's class- it will walk away from a FJR1300 and a K-1600 as is. But, Kawasaki also wants to maintain a "value" market position with the C-14 for now. Don't expect to see the more expensive ZX-14r engine inserted anytime soon.

[Rhino]

Everyone here knows that the C-14 is probably the best and most durable engine in it's class- it will walk away from a FJR1300 and a K-1600 as is. But, Kawasaki also wants to maintain a "value" market position with the C-14 for now. Don't expect to see the more expensive ZX-14r engine inserted anytime soon.

I don't disagree at all. But keep in mind that the C-14 1352cc engine is not the same as the ZX14 1325cc engine. They share crank shaft, case, heads (I think) but have different pistons, cams, valves, TB's, etc. Would it really be that much more expensive to share the crank shaft, case and heads with the ZX14R 1441cc engine? Just asking...

[Rhino]

I got mine because of the great deal offered to me.  Haven't regretted owning it for a second, except maybe for the stupid flashing dash, warning tire sensor batteries are bad when it gets cold.  Thank God it only gets cold a few days a year here. 
BTW, you still enjoying the Hill Country?   tomp

Totally agree on the stupid flashing dash. A buddy of mine, after riding my C14, just last week bought a 2011 with 2500 miles on it. The very first thing he complained about was the stupid flashing dash about the low TPMS battery.

Yup, still enjoying the Hill Country every chance I get. My wife is still at the house in CO and says there is so much snow there is no place left to push it to.

[tomp]

Totally agree on the stupid flashing dash. A buddy of mine, after riding my C14, just last week bought a 2011 with 2500 miles on it. The very first thing he complained about was the stupid flashing dash about the low TPMS battery.

Yup, still enjoying the Hill Country every chance I get. My wife is still at the house in CO and says there is so much snow there is no place left to push it to.

My son lives up there too, and being a Texan, he's seen more snow this winter than in his entire prior life time.  Hope your wife is doing OK. 

[Cruise Missile]

Personally  if my Connie have more hp I would get myself in more trouble than I can afford. ( I just renewed my registration and had to pay $300 in photo radar tickets).
As mentioned some nice upgrades would be well received .... CRUISE CONTROL, Heated seats, Blue tooth Audio,  etc.

[Deziner]

I don't disagree at all. But keep in mind that the C-14 1352cc engine is not the same as the ZX14 1325cc engine. They share crank shaft, case, heads (I think) but have different pistons, cams, valves, TB's, etc. Would it really be that much more expensive to share the crank shaft, case and heads with the ZX14R 1441cc engine? Just asking...

Anything that changes exhaust emissions or a number of other Government regulations requires re-certification. And that costs $ and time. R. O. I. is a determining factor in any change in any manufacturing operation.

I am not theorizing about what is involved in changes that have been mentioned, I have very close friends that have to deal with them regularly. The noise emissions alone that manufacturers have to deal with are mind boggling.

Emissions testing on a new vehicle are getting stricter every year. 25 years ago, a vehicle was moved to a clean room, required to sit for a minimum of 4 hours to get to a predetermined temperature in a sealed, temp and humidity controlled chamber then started and run on a dyno from cold and then through a Government specified load test for 26 minutes. Multiple measurements were taken at the tailpipe at various points of the test. Also, total emissions for the 26 minutes were measured. It's gotten a lot more stringent since then. Small changes equals BIG money.