Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: ninjawarrior1400 on February 29, 2012, 08:30:40 AM
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Brock just got 219 HP with his pipe on a 2012 ZX14R with 60 miles on it.......this motor really puts out lots of power with some ECU tweaking and pipe installation.
It seems to me that Kawasaki would want to build only one (1) 1400cc engine instead of two different ones with different bores and strokes in time to come.
With motorcycles on the decline because of the economy, a great way to boost sales at least on this bike is to put a stronger engine on board maybe next year......other than color changes....there are no real upgrades, and the prices continue to rise slightly each year.
What do you guys think about a bigger engine in the future for our C-14?
Ninja
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You would think, but the whole point of a C14 engine is to have more low end and midrange over a fixed cam engine.
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You would think, but the whole point of a C14 engine is to have more low end and midrange over a fixed cam engine.
I agree, but then what are those secondary butterflies doing in my bike? :-\
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To slow you down, Martin. They've heard about you.
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Other than possibly bragging rights against BMW's K1600 and maybe help those who routinely ride two-up with subtantial luggage, I don't seem how the extra cc's would make a difference for most C14 riders.
I don't recall ever venturing into the upper 1/3 of the RPM range, which is where the '12 ZX14R makes its magic. I spend 95% of the time below 5k. As a sport tourer, the C14 could always use more refinement (NVH, MPG, wind/heat management, instrumentation, seat, luggage, handling, fuel mapping, TC, etc.), even though it already does very will in those depts. I'd rather see Kawi focus on those areas than adding more power.
I'm sure the 1441cc will replace the 1352cc sooner or later, as it makes no production efficiency sense to keep two very similar engines on the same production line.
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.......It seems to me that Kawasaki would want to build only one (1) 1400cc engine instead of two different ones with different bores and strokes in time to come.With motorcycles on the decline because of the economy, a great way to boost sales at least on this bike is to put a stronger engine on board maybe next year......other than color changes....there are no real upgrades, and the prices continue to rise slightly each year.
What do you guys think about a bigger engine in the future for our C-14?
Ninja
you really have not followed the history of the original Concours, along with the current one, and seen the exact trend they have followed (which by the way worked well for the last 30 years) dillegently...
Yeah, everyone wants more power, but just how long / how many miles do you think the average ZX / Ninja will realistically go when plused up as it is ?
Now, add in the warranty and extended warranty, and expect to get 200k miles from it.
yeah. and then loose the chain.
If Kaw were to actually listen to that request, and manufacture the C14 using the almost exact engine as you speak, you can bet you wouldn't be able to afford it; and albeit it would likely self destruct in well under 100k miles, besides costing the price of a new bike just to keep it up.
The Concours is what it is. It is bike designed to last a long time, and priced and warranteed accordingly.
But we can all dream ...heheheheh ;)
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If I wanted, I can already do 140 MPH two up with my wife screaming in my ear.
I don't think adding another 20-30 MPH on the top end would be good for my marriage. :)
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I don't see it happening, at least not in full power mode. There are a few of us who do the power adders, flies out, ZX TBs, full exhaust systems, PCV, Auto tune, filter, and a coupla turbos. But from what I have seen most are quite happy with what they have. It is very few who will ever truly use what power is made from a bone stock C14, and even fewer who will fully realize, much less use the power added. If mama kaw wants to offer a ZX power plant for a ST type bike I bet the easiest way would be a differant set of bars, taller screen, heated grips, and modular bags. Sound familiar? And a bigger tank would be a must. All in all I would say for the masses it just isn't something a rider desires in a ST. Besides, all you need to do for more power is buy the '08, Neutron Silver provides all the power a person could ever desire ;D
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Seems to me that it makes sense to do the same treatment they did when they first introduced the C14. That is take the ZX14 engine and tweak it for more low end, less top end, wider torque range. So why wouldn't they take this new engine, add the VVT, change the throttle bodies and maps. So instead of 155hp at the crank stock you get maybe 165hp but not the 200+ monster of the ZX14R. It would make a nice competition to the new K1600.
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I am more than satisfied with the power my bike has, i think some refinement to what we already have would be a good touch, but that is just my opinion.
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To me, horsepower is just like Ta Ta's - The more the better! 8)
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To me, horsepower is just like Ta Ta's - The more the better! 8)
:thumbs: (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/boobiesbounce3z.gif)
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To me, horsepower is just like Ta Ta's - The more the better! 8)
Exactly! The C14 made its claim to fame by being the baddest bad ass ST on the market in 08. They should keep up with the Joneses and use the engine they already spent bucks on to upgrade again.
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More power means more stress on drive train components- that means things will be more likely to fail under warranty and that costs money, strike one.
More power could make insurance companies scared, insurance costs could price prospective buyers out of the market, strike two.
Kawa is getting lots of sales to law enforcement. A cop bike with 200hp could be publicized in the media as extravagant and drive down sales, strike three!
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I'm amazed by how many people on this forum that don't like hp. It is the main thing that made me take a look at the C14 in the first place. I really need a touring bike but give me one with as much performance as possible at a reasonable price. That's why I love the C14.
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I am more than satisfied with the power my bike has, i think some refinement to what we already have would be a good touch, but that is just my opinion.
Yup me too...... I will go buy a ZX10R if I want to die.
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I'm amazed by how many people on this forum that don't like hp. It is the main thing that made me take a look at the C14 in the first place. I really need a touring bike but give me one with as much performance as possible at a reasonable price. That's why I love the C14.
+1
I bought a C14 because it's like a bigger, comfier sport bike with cheaper insurance and I'd personally love another 30+ hp. It seems like others buy it because it's like a smaller, sportier Goldwing and they're content with the power it has.
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I have to agree with many of the others. To me, the Concours is plenty powerful enough to do anything I would ever want or need. And no affordable ST can currently out perform it. I am more focused on reliability, efficiency, and comfort, which is what VVT, lower end tuning, shaft drive, etc offer. The Concours offers an excellent combination of power/performance, fuel economy, and drivability backed by the industry's best warranty.
If Kawasaki wants to be creative, they should listen to the myriad of suggestions on the board, already- things like CRUISE CONTROL, HID LIGHTING, more adjustability for bars and seats, 100% LED lighting, built-in tip-over protection, and refined KIPASS that lets you unlock EVERYTHING without a key, not just the ignition. And consider options for even more stuff ST riders often want: alarm, nav, com, and convenience lighting come to mind.
Of course, I am certainly not opposed to increased power, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of reliability, efficiency, and comfort. :)
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If anyone thinks for a second, that a Connie has more low end grunt than a ZX14, they're sadly mistaken.
The VVT is pointless in my opinion. The old ZX engine would have been better left alone.
And a ZX engine will last just as long. You don't have to ride it as hard. 8)
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IMO the more power this baby gets the faster you're going to chew through that rear tyre. A mate has a Trumpy 2.3l and he is lucky to see 7,000kms/4350 miles out of his $600 rear tyre :o
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I'm amazed by how many people on this forum that don't like hp. It is the main thing that made me take a look at the C14 in the first place. I really need a touring bike but give me one with as much performance as possible at a reasonable price. That's why I love the C14.
I agree. Give me a ST bike with ZX-14/Hayabusa engine and I can't buy a new bike fast enough. I'm tired of the detuned ST bikes. Tired of the excuses. Someone needs to step up to the plate and give us the full monty. Those of you who don't want the full monty can just learn to not twist the throttle all the way open (your probably don't now anyway). There are plenty of detuned bikes out there for those of you wimps that are afraid you can't handle the truth....I mean the horsepower. Go buy a Honda ST1300 and have a good day ;)
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If anyone thinks for a second, that a Connie has more low end grunt than a ZX14, they're sadly mistaken.
The VVT is pointless in my opinion. The old ZX engine would have been better left alone.
And a ZX engine will last just as long. You don't have to ride it as hard. 8)
Agreed. I have ridden a ZX14. I could not believe the mid range power it has.
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I have to agree with many of the others. To me, the Concours is plenty powerful enough to do anything I would ever want or need. And no affordable ST can currently out perform it. I am more focused on reliability, efficiency, and comfort, which is what VVT, lower end tuning, shaft drive, etc offer. The Concours offers an excellent combination of power/performance, fuel economy, and drivability backed by the industry's best warranty.
If Kawasaki wants to be creative, they should listen to the myriad of suggestions on the board, already- things like CRUISE CONTROL, HID LIGHTING, more adjustability for bars and seats, 100% LED lighting, built-in tip-over protection, and refined KIPASS that lets you unlock EVERYTHING without a key, not just the ignition. And consider options for even more stuff ST riders often want: alarm, nav, com, and convenience lighting come to mind.
Of course, I am certainly not opposed to increased power, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of reliability, efficiency, and comfort. :)
The ZX14 and Haybusa are both considered to be the most bullet proof bikes made.
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I think Kawasaki will wake up next year and realize that two same size engines with different crankshafts, and internal parts is going to be confusing during assembly and more expensive to produce time and and manpower wise in machining.
It makes good sense to at least use the same block, they can always detune the C-14 down to about 165 HP with the black ugly stock pipe that comes with it.
Then all the weak guys here that like to drive under the speed limit can just leave it alone and never have to do any upgrades to it cause it will be perfect out of the box.
But those of us who like cutting edge performance can always add a pipe and tweak another 25 HP out of the great C-14 and then always have a smile on our faces cause we have the best of both worlds, performance, speed, shaft drive, electric windshield, heated grips, better seat/riding position and saddle bags!
Enuf said!
Ninja
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To me, horsepower is just like Ta Ta's - The more the better! 8)
When it comes to Ta Ta's I prefer the standard OEM two. Anything less is sad, anything more is freakish.
As for more HP on an ST the C14 is OK. More would be nice but less MPG would be BAD.
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When it comes to Ta Ta's I prefer the standard OEM two. Anything less is sad, anything more is freakish.
I think these are OEM? (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Zuzanna_bouncing.gif)
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:goodpost: :hail:
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Agreed. I have ridden a ZX14. I could not believe the mid range power it has.
+1
I am on this side of the great divide!
Funny thing is about this forum, you have a lot of Walter Mitty badasses that buy ST bikes, especially the FJR and Concour. They are badass when they push up behind you on the highway, but once they pass, they slow down to PSL +3. They couldn't care less if the ZX-14 engine was available, because they have about twice the power they can handle now.
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The VVT is pointless in my opinion.
It is an awfully expensive addition to be pointless. I appreciate what it does to retain a decent power curve while being fuel efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_valve_timing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_valve_timing)
"An engine requires large amounts of air when operating at high speeds. However, the intake valves may close before enough air has entered each combustion chamber, reducing performance. On the other hand, if the camshaft keeps the valves open for longer periods of time, as with a racing cam, problems start to occur at the lower engine speeds. This will cause unburnt fuel to exit the engine since the valves are still open. This leads to lower engine performance [,lower fuel economy,] and increased emissions."
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I think Kawasaki will wake up next year and realize that two same size engines with different crankshafts, and internal parts is going to be confusing during assembly and more expensive to produce time and and manpower wise in machining. It makes good sense to at least use the same block.
Agreed. And I expect they probably will at some point.
they can always detune the C-14 down to about 165 HP with the black ugly stock pipe that comes with it.
Not only is the stock muffler not ugly, it is not currently restricting power. In fact, I don't really believe anything in the Concours is artificially restricting power, it is simply distributed differently. A single snapshot of peak horsepower does not reveal performance and "detune" is a loaded word. "Retuned" is more accurate. The mission of the tuning of the Concours is/was not to maximize peak HP but to widen the power band, knowing that the target audience would be less likely to want to cruise at 6,000RPM or frequently run up to 10,500RPM. This gives more low/mid-end response than the Concours would otherwise have and a more reasonable fuel economy. And the VVT enables the Concours to open up the values for reasonable performance at higher RPM, without sacrificing lower-end power and fuel economy.
Then all the weak guys here that like to drive under the speed limit can just leave it alone and never have to do any upgrades to it cause it will be perfect out of the box.
Any vehicle can drive over the speed limit (and the Concours will go 158mph!) And nobody I know drives *under* the speed limit (well, maybe one person). It is how quickly to can get TO the speed limit (or reasonably over) that is the fun part. :)
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Not only is the stock muffler not ugly, it is not currently restricting power.
The stock header is though I would think Max... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
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The stock header is though I would think Max...
It is quite possible the intake and/or header and/or exhaust pipe are restrictive at high RPM (but probably only if fuel was less restricted). But he was saying the ugly black pipe (which I took to mean muffler, since the exhaust pipe is not black). Of course, a larger diameter exhaust system that can help high end performance (assuming the FI is tuned correctly) can lead to loss in low-RPM torque/performance and decrease in fuel economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermarket_exhaust_parts#Disadvantages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermarket_exhaust_parts#Disadvantages)
Nothing in life is free ;)
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Gotcha Max, now I see where you're coming from then on your statement. :grouphug:
Back to the thread, I am on the side of the fence to give us the option, more power will sell, wether somebody uses it to it's full potential is up to them... There are many cars on the road that have far more power than is needed for commuting, but that doesn't mean I'd take a Prius (no offence Sparky) over a twin turbo Porsche...
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The stock muffler is not ugly. It is FUGLY! :doublepuke: It has given an entirely new dimension to all things ugly and has no business being attached to a machine as nice looking as a C14. I am shocked that lightning has not come down from the heavens and blasted the Kawasaki design center for marketing such blatant motorcycle blasphemy.
I pray for forgiveness for the designers, surely they were possessed by evil ancestor spirits who were jealous that they never had anything so nice to ride.
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The stock muffler is not ugly. It is FUGLY! :doublepuke: It has given an entirely new dimension to all things ugly and has no business being attached to a machine as nice looking as a C14. I am shocked that lightning has not come down from the heavens and blasted the Kawasaki design center for marketing such blatant motorcycle blasphemy.
I pray for forgiveness for the designers, surely they were possessed by evil ancestor spirits who were jealous that they never had anything so nice to ride.
LOL- Tell us how you REALLY feel!
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This issue comes up a lot on the sportbike boards. A lot of new sportbike riders will go out and buy a new 750 or 1000 and brag about how they "need more power" and do tons of mods, 90% of which are counter productive to what they are actually trying to achieve, which is more low end torque (regearing with higher ratio sprockets will do that, great mod, particularly on a 600.)
My Gixxer lives at the upper limit of the RPM band when it's on the track. I can't really get there on the street. Same with my C14. The thing will get up to 80-90 mph plenty fast if you just open the throttle and ride the power band. Could I benefically use more power for acceleration on the street? Yeah, in a straight line drag race, which I only do to exercise the engine periodically but that's about it. I have not yet been limited by power in the twisties. Certainly not on the freeway.
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Like with cars, people ask for horsepower and buy torque.
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Here is a dose of reality...........lets just say that Kawasaki does what some of you want, I will bet the farm that y'all will still bitch and find something to complain about. Just sayin....... 8)
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Here is a dose of reality...........lets just say that Kawasaki does what some of you want, I will bet the farm that y'all will still bitch and find something to complain about. Just sayin....... 8)
Ding Ding Ding.......we have a winner! ;D
Enough is never enough........
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Will they ever put the bigger engine in, though? If a person squints, the bike is not THAT much different than a comfortable zx14. Obviously, I get the power difference and shaft, but lets say it like that for those who worry about keeping a clean driving record. Would Kawi gain anything by modding these two closer together or end up stealing sales away from one of them? The c14 never lacks power in a street riding situation.
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Here is a dose of reality...........lets just say that Kawasaki does what some of you want, I will bet the farm that y'all will still bitch and find something to complain about. Just sayin....... 8)
Not so. No whining here. I've been saying I LOVE this bike precisely because it has a lot of hp. If they put in more of it I'd love it even more.
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Here my opinion.....
I'm not in the more Horsepower camp for various reasons. I've done a couple of Trackdays now on the C14 and it goes plenty fast for its size and weight. Could it go faster yeah sure....it just needs a better rider, not more HP.
What I would like, which I think is inline with others on the board, is some innovation, versus raw Cubic Inches.
-- More touring features would be nice, but I don't want a GoldWing
-- More torque, but I don't want weight. Would love a small forced induction system, ala supercharger like on their JetSkis.
-- Improvements to brakes, especially their feel. The linking on this bike feels just odd.
I'm pretty sure the C14 market, in general, is not looking for more power. If they were, they'd be buying ZX-14, or Liter Bikes.
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I'm not in the more Horsepower camp for various reasons.
-- More torque, but I don't want weight. Would love a small forced induction system, ala supercharger like on their JetSkis.
I think we have a horsepower junky coming out of the closet! I don't want more horsepower, just a supercharger!
:D
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Personally, I would rather have a larger gas tank than more HP an day. The only time I need more horses is when I'm racing, and I sure as hell don't race a Connie...
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Here my opinion.....
I'm not in the more Horsepower camp for various reasons. I've done a couple of Trackdays now on the C14 and it goes plenty fast for its size and weight. Could it go faster yeah sure....it just needs a better rider, not more HP.
What I would like, which I think is inline with others on the board, is some innovation, versus raw Cubic Inches.
-- More touring features would be nice, but I don't want a GoldWing
-- More torque, but I don't want weight. Would love a small forced induction system, ala supercharger like on their JetSkis.
-- Improvements to brakes, especially their feel. The linking on this bike feels just odd.
I'm pretty sure the C14 market, in general, is not looking for more power. If they were, they'd be buying ZX-14, or Liter Bikes.
First of all, a better rider on a slower bike can't beat the lesser rider with more hp. But a better rider will still be faster on a faster bike.
Second, you may be right about a lot of owner not wanting more power. But you are wrong about if they do they would buy a ZX14. I have the Concours because I do 300+ miles every weekend and once a year do a 3800 mile or so trip in one week. I can't get past the ergos of the ZX. Three weeks ago I bought a Ninja 1000 to go with my other two bikes. I thought I was going to buy a ZX14 as my third bike, but ultimately was still too concerned about the ergos.
Bottom line is this - if the Concours came out with 170 hp at the rear wheel I'd put my money down on a new one today - no B.S. And I'm sure I'm not alone. In fact, I'd bet that the guy I ride with (who has a 2010 Concours, Ninja 1000 and Ducati 1198S) would as well.
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Like with cars, people ask for horsepower and buy torque.
Generally true, but I like both. I don't like a flat torque curve that falls off (which is what torque/no hp winds up with). I like a car or bike that keeps pulling hard up the RPM range. But I can't disagree with you as a generalization.
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First of all, a better rider on a slower bike can't beat the lesser rider with more hp. But a better rider will still be faster on a faster bike.
I would disagree in the twisties, agree in a straight line. ;)
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Personally, I would rather have a larger gas tank than more HP an day. The only time I need more horses is when I'm racing, and I sure as hell don't race a Connie...
BIINGO! ^^^ While I originally thought I wanted the ZX-14R engine I figure it would guzzle gas like a V8 Corvette. So in retrospect I figure I'd appreciate more touring comfort from a factory setup like Cruise Control, Heated adjustable Seats, and a longer touring range (aka bigger fuel tank). So I'm gotten off the I need more horse power bandwagon and have moved to the I need more factory options front. After all I'm not trying to drag down other liter bikes in a race, and I can already out pull just about any car on the road.
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The point is this, the original C14 was based on a ST version of the ZX14. Now they upgrade the ZX14 with some tweaks to the engine which can be applied to the C14 adding some gain in power/performance. Assuming its economical to only have to build one crankshaft and create C14 engines on the exact same assembly line of the ZX14R engine, Kawi can offer a bump in performance on the C14 for next to nothing in cost. I'm not saying I would sell my 2010 and plop down another 15K for a new one. But if I was in the market for a new bike I would be attracted by the increased performance. Isn't that what attracted you to the C14 in the first place? Yes I would be riding a ZX14R or some liter sport bike if performance was the only thing. But I want to ride 500 mile plus days with luggage for a comfortable 2 weeks. Satisfy that then give me all the performance you can. I think that describes a C14.
Lets see some hands, how many of C14 owners didn't care about performance when you bought your bike?
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Maybe Kawasaki will produce two different models of C-14's.
One stock like it is now for all the weak riders who want a stock pipe on their bikes and never ever go over 70mph, and the ZX-14R engine for those of us who know that a .44 Magnum is much more fun than a .357 Magnum!!
You may not need the extra power...but it is damn nice to know it is there!!
" A man has to know his limitations"......Clint Eastwood.....1973........
Ninja
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The point is this, the original C14 was based on a ST version of the ZX14. Now they upgrade the ZX14 with some tweaks to the engine which can be applied to the C14 adding some gain in power/performance. Assuming its economical to only have to build one crankshaft and create C14 engines on the exact same assembly line of the ZX14R engine, Kawi can offer a bump in performance on the C14 for next to nothing in cost. I'm not saying I would sell my 2010 and plop down another 15K for a new one. But if I was in the market for a new bike I would be attracted by the increased performance. Isn't that what attracted you to the C14 in the first place? Yes I would be riding a ZX14R or some liter sport bike if performance was the only thing. But I want to ride 500 mile plus days with luggage for a comfortable 2 weeks. Satisfy that then give me all the performance you can. I think that describes a C14.
Lets see some hands, how many of C14 owners didn't care about performance when you bought your bike?
I bought mine knowing it was the current best sport touring bike out there, and pretty much was a no brainer that it had better brakes, suspension and performance than my last bikes. I wanted a touring bike that was comfy, handled great, good range and was reliable. Having the HP and performance this machine has was expected "and I am more than satisfied". Give me electronic cruise control, a bigger stator, and adjustable bars and I would be in heaven!!!!! This bike needs no more power output for 3/4 of the owners, especially for the reasons they bought it to begin with. So what else in this category is more powerful, refined or faster, at the price and options this bike comes with? What else has won more awards in that category than the C14 since it debuted? Give me more refinement and creature comforts, leave the damn engine alone!!!!!
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Maybe Kawasaki will produce two different models of C-14's.
One stock like it is now for all the weak riders who want a stock pipe on their bikes and never ever go over 70mph, and the ZX-14R engine for those of us who know that a .44 Magnum is much more fun than a .357 Magnum!!
" A man has to know his limitations"......Clint Eastwood.....1973........
Ninja
Weak riders...........your a funny guy. ::) I know my limitations and am 100% cool with that, do you honestly know yours? There are old riders and fast riders, but few old fast riders. I personally would take a .357 anyday over a .44 Magnum, for many reasons. And I will bet ya, that few riders if any on this site can ride a C14 to its potential in stock form. ;)
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I would disagree in the twisties, agree in a straight line. ;)
I think I said that wrong. Let me try again - a better rider on a slower bike will beat a worse rider on a faster bike. When I road raced back in the day I was on both sides of the equation at one point or another.
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Maybe Kawasaki will produce two different models of C-14's.
Extremely unlikely
One stock like it is now for all the weak riders who want a stock pipe
Like I said before, there is nothing "weak" about a rider that doesn't waste money and time on replacing a factory muffler which results in nothing but a change in looks or sound. Your postings are coming across as pretty insulting and/or "elitist"...
and never ever go over 70mph,
You don't have to grossly violate the speed limit to have fun. It's called acceleration. And, again, there is nothing "weak" about not wanting to ride 90, 100, or 120 MPH on public roads. In many cases it could be extremely dangerous. In all cases it could mean license revocation, huge fines, incredible insurance increases, and/or even jail time. Responsible does not equal "weak".
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As an old, slow rider (not too old, not too slow), I wouldn't mind an extra 20-30hp in the C14. OTOH, I so seldom use all of the HP, much less all the rest of the performance of the bike, so it isn't on my priority list. Somewhere/somewhen over the years I learned to enjoy riding. I still have my preferences, but I enjoy fast bikes and slow ones, new and old, large and small.
Now that my eyesight, hearing and reflexes aren't as good as they used to be, I have to rely on experience, observation, training and judgement. And riding is still as much fun as it ever was, but I no longer "have" to go fast to enjoy the ride. These days, speed and power are dessert, not an addiction.
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I've yet to find a bike that will do every type of riding I'd like to do and do them all exceedingly well. If you really want to get your speed fix, you should buy a sport bike and hit your local track days. You can bounce off the rev limiter all day long in a safe environment off the streets. And the bike will be designed as a package (suspension, geometry, power characteristics, etc.) for the exact purpose of going fast - straight line and corners.
Then when you get back on the C14, you'll truly appreciate it for what it is really designed for.
Trying to optimize a bike for too many things, and you'll end up with a machine that is mediocre in all those areas.
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I've yet to find a bike that will do every type of riding I'd like to do and do them all exceedingly well. If you really want to get your speed fix, you should buy a sport bike and hit your local track days. You can bounce off the rev limiter all day long in a safe environment off the streets. And the bike will be designed as a package (suspension, geometry, power characteristics, etc.) for the exact purpose of going fast - straight line and corners.
Then when you get back on the C14, you'll truly appreciate it for what it is really designed for.
Trying to optimize a bike for too many things, and you'll end up with a machine that is mediocre in all those areas.
Except for 1 bike......the new Multi-strada!!!!! ;)
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Shouldn't the overall weight and tire size be considered in the total hp put into a motorcycle? Seems it would be more productive over all for Kawi to start a weight loss program" higher hp to lbs ratio=Faster" that would easily lead to more power being responsibly placed into the c14=even faster..and even more$
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I wish they would offer an S model, even if it was only special order. ZX engine, Ohlins suspenders, Brembo brakes, NICE looking exhaust, etc. I am not sure how that would affect the logistics and manufacturing costs, but that would make one cool old-man sport bike. Comfortable seating position, hard bags, wind protection, and asphalt ripper all in one package! :D
I think a small sector of the market would support the higher price point. People are spending big bucks already for set ups similar to this. I agree the Ducati is probably the closest thing to that and I think they are around 23K? Not sure about the price, but I just can't get past that big ol' beak sticking out the front.
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Fearless prediction: Kawasaki will do just what they did with the C-10 in my garage. Keep making the same basic machine with a few upgrades every few years. No blowers, no $23,000 S option, no 1441 motor. I wouldn't mind being wrong about that last one, BTW.
Weight loss would be VERY nice. BUT. Do what Kawasaki does and look at the competition. All huge and heavy and fast. Until somebody raises the bar, no reason for anybody else to worry about weight. You think somebody has to be first...and why not Mama Kaw? Because nobody will. Trend is toward bigger, heavier bikes. And riders for that matter. Carrying bigger GFs and more stuff.
Better rider ALWAYS gets away from better bike in the twisties. Racing 101.
NW1400, keep posting up the great stuff. What a tool. Compensating, are we? Never grow up!
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BIINGO! ^^^ While I originally thought I wanted the ZX-14R engine I figure it would guzzle gas like a V8 Corvette.
A modern Corvette with a 6 speed manual can easily get 30mpg, hardly what I would call "guzzling".
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A modern Corvette with a 6 speed manual can easily get 30mpg, hardly what I would call "guzzling".
It can, but wonder how many actually do? ;)
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When will Kawasaki put the new ZX14R Engine in the C-14?
when these come stock on gixxers :D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer10/coontailsandstickers.jpg)
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when these come stock on gixxers :D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer10/coontailsandstickers.jpg)
Is the girl that rides this pretty? 8)
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Tail is tail, don't be picky ::)
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Tail is tail, don't be picky ::)
:rotflmao:
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Maybe Kawasaki will produce two different models of C-14's.
http://youtu.be/mOHosIwQEnY (http://youtu.be/mOHosIwQEnY)
One stock like it is now for all the weak riders who want a stock pipe on their bikes and never ever go over 70mph, and the ZX-14R engine for those of us who know that a .44 Magnum is much more fun than a .357 Magnum!!
You may not need the extra power...but it is damn nice to know it is there!!
" A man has to know his limitations"......Clint Eastwood.....1973........
Ninja
you really need to move outta Florida, and ride some roads in West Virginia, or Pa.,
you may find the bike has all you need.....
"hello, my name is -------, and I ride a C14 in Florida..."
insert favorite 12 step program response here" ____________________________" ;) 8) :rotflmao:
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.....all the weak riders who want a stock pipe on their bikes.....
Ninja
Really?......are you calling the stock pipe people weak? :stirpot:
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Like I said before, there is nothing "weak" about a rider that doesn't waste money and time on replacing a factory muffler which results in nothing but a change in looks or sound. Your postings are coming across as pretty insulting and/or "elitist"...
I changed my muffler in order to get better looks and sound :-[ Bike has plenty of power for me as it is.
I am poorer, and I sure don't feel any stronger ;D
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If I wanted, I can already do 140 MPH two up with my wife screaming in my ear.
I don't think adding another 20-30 MPH on the top end would be good for my marriage. :)
Good point I have a car(VW R32 04) and a bike that I believe have identical 168 mph top speeds...I did 140 in the car once windows & sunroof open--way fun-but I only did it once.
I am reasonably sure I've hit 130 +/- on the Connie...smooth as silk even with a pillion but not happening very often.
Mike
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Happy with the current configuration, more power and speed than I will ever use
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I have put the girl in the 12 o'clock position from a dead stop during a drag race, so I guess it'll do. 8)
I came off a ZX14, but got very sore after 12 hours in the saddle. The ZX14 has stupid powah!
I loved having it, even though I knew it was overkill for the street.
The more power you have on tap, the more touchy it is at low speeds. The Connie is nice and forgiving, for the all out grunt it has.
I would welcome more power, but know it comes at a price. ;)
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If I want more power I'll just ride my wifes bike when she's not using it... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/skjdiwue.jpg)
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Looks like you'll have to wait til your girlfriends done with it too.
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Looks like you'll have to wait til your girlfriends done with it too.
LOL!!!
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Looks like you'll have to wait til your girlfriends done with it too.
Mama does pilates... :)
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If I want more power I'll just ride my wifes bike when she's not using it... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/skjdiwue.jpg)
Is that bike-gasp-silver ;D Jay, I see a ray of hope for ya ;)
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Is that bike-gasp-silver ;D Jay, I see a ray of hope for ya ;)
Ya SoP, mama likes silver because it's so feminine... ;) ;D :stirpot:
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I like feminine, I reckon you like masculine ;D ;) :-*
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I sure would like to smell that Busa seat. :thumbs:
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I sure would like to smell that Busa seat. :thumbs:
:rotflmao:
Smells like roses and tastes like strawberries Poke... :P
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Is that bike-gasp-silver ;D Jay, I see a ray of hope for ya ;)
OK- I'll be the first to say it..
There's a bike in the photo?????
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If I want more power I'll just ride my wifes bike when she's not using it... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/skjdiwue.jpg)
What bike? And why is the woman wearing a helmet?
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If I want more power I'll just ride my wifes bike when she's not using it... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/skjdiwue.jpg)
That is an awfully fast looking kitchen!
;D
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Oh, my.....
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Nice pic! (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Guys, at the risk of being a wet blanket, please no more posting of those pictures (you know what I mean) in this thread. The topic is ZX14R engines in the C14, not scantily clad women on other bikes. Start a new thread in Open if that's what you want to discuss. Thanks.
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Sorry Sparky, my bad... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_smackbottom.gif)
Now back to 14R motors in Connie's! (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)
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Yes, that's infinitely more entertaining...... :banghead:
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I sure would like to smell that Busa seat. :thumbs:
I guess they don't call ya Pokey for nuthin :o
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What bike? And why is the woman wearing a helmet?
Sorry, you are too late...
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Ok the boys from the Kawasaki factory here advise the C-14 will come with the upgraded ZX14 engine in 2013, and it too will be de-tuned like it is now....but will have the larger CC 1441 engine block the 2012 does this year....so maybe about 10-15 more HP depending on how they tune it will be in the offing....
Prices of course will be adjusted upward to offset the added power, but they have to keep selling them, and the way to do that is to sell MORE POWER!!!
Ninja
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Ok the boys from the Kawasaki factory here advise the C-14 will come with the upgraded ZX14 engine in 2013, and it too will be de-tuned like it is now....but will have the larger CC 1441 engine block the 2012 does this year....so maybe about 10-15 more HP depending on how they tune it will be in the offing....
Prices of course will be adjusted upward to offset the added power, but they have to keep selling them, and the way to do that is to sell MORE POWER!!!
Ninja
Then we need a pool to take guess on the power (rated by the factory).
My guess is 169 hp and 114 lb ft of torque.
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Then we need a pool to take guess on the power (rated by the factory)
What is really needed it a pool to guess if they FINALLY put factory cruise control on the thing!
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I am going with nope. :(
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If factory cruise is that important, perhaps consider the purchase of a beemer
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/behindsofa.gif)
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Ok the boys from the Kawasaki factory here advise the C-14 will come with the upgraded ZX14 engine in 2013, and it too will be de-tuned like it is now....but will have the larger CC 1441 engine block the 2012 does this year....so maybe about 10-15 more HP depending on how they tune it will be in the offing....
Prices of course will be adjusted upward to offset the added power, but they have to keep selling them, and the way to do that is to sell MORE POWER!!!
Ninja
Bingo!
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Ok the boys from the Kawasaki factory here advise the C-14 will come with the upgraded ZX14 engine in 2013, and it too will be de-tuned like it is now....but will have the larger CC 1441 engine block the 2012 does this year....so maybe about 10-15 more HP depending on how they tune it will be in the offing....
Prices of course will be adjusted upward to offset the added power, but they have to keep selling them, and the way to do that is to sell MORE POWER!!!
Ninja
Where do I sign? I will definitely trade up... of course all my farkles go on the new bike. Easier to sell the old one completely stock anyways plus who would want a silly full Muzzy Exhaust plus all the other crazy things I wasted so much money on... lol
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Io ho detto la mia,....chissà cosa dirà il traduttore Google... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The motorcycle market is where the dreams of centaurs .. and this is costing us more money in order to have the same bike, always with a lot more horses, which did not serve, if the manufacturers of motorcycles were safe to sell also the usual motion model with fewer horses, and besides, perhaps, much more powerful ..
You say ... as!
Very easy to do, we start from our concour .. 14. Well with 156 hp
1 ° migliore.Non Aerodynamics is the weight of the bike that is the limit for performance, with 14 kgm but the air resistance plays an important role on consumption.
Overdrive 2 ° should have ratios of 5 fifth gear ... this is not the remedy for consumption here .. BMW teaches.
It is we who are dreamers and the houses do not know how to make us wake up.
Certainly this is my thinking, I am convinced that, where better to place this externalize their point of view.
So I would not want a 14 concour more powerful, but a bike that pampers me more than another in its segment you love concour 14 MY 2007.
MGvalerio. 8)
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Well said...I think.
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If factory cruise is that important, perhaps consider the purchase of a beemer
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/behindsofa.gif)
LOL- yeah, only if I am willing to take out a mortgage on the house to PAY for it. NOT!
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Over the last 4 years I would think about 90% of the owners and members here are interested in more power. Lots of slip-ons, full systems, air cleaners, timing advancers, ECU flashing, and hi perf. air cleaners have been the normal way of adding power, reducing weight and gaining new performance.
Everyone is trying to improve the breed so to speak....faster, stronger, lighter is always better and more fun.. We bought this wonderful machine to have lots of fun with it......so more fun, is faster, better acceleration, sharper curves is what everyone is enjoying and talking about.....
The larger engine is welcomed and will sell like hotcakes....especially to us that have the 1352 cc motor.....some are satisfied with stock...which is fine...to each his own.
Kawasaki and others must continue to develop new products or improve what is out there to stay in business......more power is the easiest way to attract new buyers.......
I just bought a new 2012 ZX14R today...and am looking forward to 215HP with all the technical advancements built into this new missile! Really don't need it....but it is just nice to know it is there!!
NInja
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I thought it was around 196 out of the box. What have you got in mind for rounding up the rest of the ponys?
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I thought it was around 196 out of the box. What have you got in mind for rounding up the rest of the ponys?
Maybe a little help from Brock's. 219 HP and 128 ft lbs of torque with an exhaust, some race fuel and PCV (zero map)!
2012 ZX-14R 'Louisville Slugger' Preview: Brocks reaction to quick Dyno testing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siWCpC6l34c#ws)
The Louisville Slugger: 2012 ZX-14R Dragbike.com Project 'Regular Guys' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrARjcrVaOM#ws)
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:o
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AreaP slip on was the very first farkle I bought. Just happened that a forum member was selling takeoffs from his C14 right after I got mine. Could not pass up a good deal.
For the record though, I was NOT interested in more HP or torque. Not even for the sound, cus I always wear ear plugs when I ride. I bought it strictly for the looks and the weight savings.
I think a lot of us wouldn't mind the bigger engine, but it is not a high priority.
Now, what's wrong with asking for factory cruise? Telling someone to go buy a beemer for OEM cruise is like telling somebody who wants more power to go buy a ZX14R or busa.
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For the record though, I was NOT interested in more HP or torque. Not even for the sound, cus I always wear ear plugs when I ride. I bought it strictly for the looks and the weight savings.
You just didn't want me to post my rant, again, about how changing just the muffler will not improve "performance" :)
Now, what's wrong with asking for factory cruise? Telling someone to go buy a beemer for OEM cruise is like telling somebody who wants more power to go buy a ZX14R or busa.
+1
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I am one of the 10% (likely much higher than that) who does not want more power. I added an after-market pipe to my 09 to improve the looks and sound and not for more power. Any other changes are for comfort.
A more powerful engine converts to a higher initial costs, higher fuel costs, higher insurance costs, etc. The C-14 is currently a good value, but it looses 40% of its value during the first year of ownership. The more a C-14 costs, the less attractive it is relative to its competitors, which IMO will translate into less sales.
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I would rather have less weight. 700 lbs acts like 700 lbs, 600 acts like 600. Don't think I need the cruise control, but wouldn't mind a simple friction screw.
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You just didn't want me to post my rant, again, about how changing just the muffler will not improve "performance" :)
+1
You still don't realize that you are not completely correct in what you believe, some slip ons do in fact increase hp and torque, especially bolting on to an engine like this. Now adding a full system and running a PCV will for sure make a noticeable difference, but the slip on alone can in fact increase performance on a high performance engine. I know that you make sweet love and rub your hideous bazooka can until your hand is numb, but the majority rules on how bad it truly is. ;) My butt dyno tells me that my throttle response is quicker, bike for sure runs better, sounds incredible, and does in fact lift the front wheel a bit easier now. Now go out and stare at that big fat girl mounted on the side of your bike.
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:battle: :rotflmao:
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Over the last 4 years I would think about 90% of the owners and members here are interested in more power. Lots of slip-ons, full systems, air cleaners, timing advancers, ECU flashing, and hi perf. air cleaners have been the normal way of adding power, reducing weight and gaining new performance.
Everyone is trying to improve the breed so to speak....faster, stronger, lighter is always better and more fun.. We bought this wonderful machine to have lots of fun with it......so more fun, is faster, better acceleration, sharper curves is what everyone is enjoying and talking about.....
The larger engine is welcomed and will sell like hotcakes....especially to us that have the 1352 cc motor.....some are satisfied with stock...which is fine...to each his own.
Kawasaki and others must continue to develop new products or improve what is out there to stay in business......more power is the easiest way to attract new buyers.......
I just bought a new 2012 ZX14R today...and am looking forward to 215HP with all the technical advancements built into this new missile! Really don't need it....but it is just nice to know it is there!!
NInja
Or attract more riders who can't ride to begin with. ::) Goldwings and cruisers have no problem attracting new buyers, and power for sure isn't a factor. Enjoy that new compensating machine, let us know how that so called 215 hp feels.
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I would rather have less weight. 700 lbs acts like 700 lbs, 600 acts like 600. Don't think I need the cruise control, but wouldn't mind a simple friction screw.
Factory cruise could be controlled by the existing ECU, already present. Sensors- already present. They would need an actuator and a control switch/indicator and a bit of cable. I am guessing that would be what, 2 pounds? It would be the best 2 pounds ever...
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You still don't realize that you are not completely correct in what you believe, some slip ons do in fact increase hp and torque, especially bolting on to an engine like this. Now adding a full system and running a PCV will for sure make a noticeable difference, but the slip on alone can in fact increase performance on a high performance engine. I know that you make sweet love and rub your hideous bazooka can until your hand is numb, but the majority rules on how bad it truly is. ;) My butt dyno tells me that my throttle response is quicker, bike for sure runs better, sounds incredible, and does in fact lift the front wheel a bit easier now. Now go out and stare at that big fat girl mounted on the side of your bike.
OK, I don't love the factory muffler quite like that!!!!! Yikes. :o I just said I "like it" or "it is fine" or "I don't think it is ugly" in other posts. I know I am in the minority, thinking it looks and sounds just fine and yet admitting it is a bit large and heavy. So stop picking on my kewl looking bazooka! I mean, muffler.
As for a muffler swap making any significant difference in performance on a stock Concours.... someone will have to show me verified dyno charts before and after. Otherwise, I will continue to believe what is most logical! :P
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Actually, for a bike with throttle by wire, cruise control is mostly software. Only needs a push button or two, plus some slight change to the dash display.
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Actually, for a bike with throttle by wire, cruise control is mostly software. Only needs a push button or two, plus some slight change to the dash display.
What you said is true, but the Concours is not a throttle by wire bike. Maybe the next generation will be, who knows.
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You still don't realize that you are not completely correct in what you believe, some slip ons do in fact increase hp and torque, especially bolting on to an engine like this. Now adding a full system and running a PCV will for sure make a noticeable difference, but the slip on alone can in fact increase performance on a high performance engine. I know that you make sweet love and rub your hideous bazooka can until your hand is numb, but the majority rules on how bad it truly is. ;) My butt dyno tells me that my throttle response is quicker, bike for sure runs better, sounds incredible, and does in fact lift the front wheel a bit easier now. Now go out and stare at that big fat girl mounted on the side of your bike.
:rotflmao:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/sdakjfksd.png)
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Why change engines? All they need to do is stop making any black bits and pieces ;D
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Why change engines? All they need to do is stop making any black bits and pieces ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/facepalm.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wacko.gif)
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/facepalm.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wacko.gif)
Someone had to bring us back to reality, figured I was the only one with the cajonas to say what must be said. Where do you think Chuck Norris got his skills? He's working on standup comedy, should be a real hit ;D
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As for a muffler swap making any significant difference in performance on a stock Concours.... someone will have to show me verified dyno charts before and after. Otherwise, I will continue to believe what is most logical! :P
my dear American fellowman, (sorry, couldn't resist! ;D)
as I posted before, I bought the Remus Hexacone Ti based only on looks, weight savings and sound. Now that I have it, the sound just melts my soul every single time I start the engine. It also looks great, and I think since I bought it I put enough weight on myself to offset the gains from changing the muffler :-[
But to your inquiry about verified dyno charts before and after, a German magazine recently tried some 15 different slip ons available for a 600 motorcycle, don't remember what. Changes were between 0,3 and 2,6% extra power/torque. Weight reduction in the mufflers compared to the original where between 20 and 60%. In absolute terms, a few pounds. Nothing huge, but still...
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my dear American fellowman, (sorry, couldn't resist! ;D)
!!!! (you are forgiven)
But to your inquiry about verified dyno charts before and after, a German magazine recently tried some 15 different slip ons available for a 600 motorcycle, don't remember what. Changes were between 0.3 and 2.6% extra power/torque. Nothing huge, but still...
I will be more careful to qualify in the future :) Of course, that is one reason I did use the word "significant", which instantly lets me decide what amount that is! :) :) :) One thing for sure, .3% to 1% is probably not even *statistically* significant within the margin of error for measuring power on most setups. Even 2.6% is nothing anyone would ever notice, so I would call it "insignificant". The *theory* that people use is that the stock muffler is restrictive to flow (which would seem to have face validity). Yet, even if true, it would be restrictive only or mostly at the higher flow rates- high RPM. With those stats, if they were true, and linear, it would mean a possible improvement in power, best case, rising from 0 at RPM to 2.6% at redline! Yawn. If we were to take an average of the results from the German source, that would be 1.15%. If linear, at 6,000 RPM (which is fairly spirited driving for a 1400), that would be around 0.7% or something like that, we are talking less than 1 hp. Again... yawn.
Besides I would want to see such charts for the Concours, not for some 600. Big difference in machines.
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I will be more careful to qualify in the future :) Of course, that is one reason I did use the word "significant", which instantly lets me decide what amount that is! :) :) :) One thing for sure, .3% to 1% is probably not even *statistically* significant within the margin of error for measuring power on most setups. Even 2.6% is nothing anyone would ever notice, so I would call it "insignificant". The *theory* that people use is that the stock muffler is restrictive to flow (which would seem to have face validity). Yet, even if true, it would be restrictive only or mostly at the higher flow rates- high RPM. With those stats, if they were true, and linear, it would mean a possible improvement in power, best case, rising from 0 at RPM to 2.6% at redline! Yawn. If we were to take an average of the results from the German source, that would be 1.15%. If linear, at 6,000 RPM (which is fairly spirited driving for a 1400), that would be around 0.7% or something like that, we are talking less than 1 hp. Again... yawn.
Besides I would want to see such charts for the Concours, not for some 600. Big difference in machines.
[/quote] DUDE>>>>TMI!!!
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DUDE>>>>TMI!!!
Sorry, I know.... I really am TMI sometimes. Or is that just payback for the TMI I threw at you about your dual-location pressing on the glass and leaving smudges in that other thread?? 8) 8)
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;)
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@Maxtog: I re-read my post, yeap, not only I meant "not huge" but also "not significant". I think I get the same performance-boost by wearing thinner socks...
@KawiG: What's TMI? :o
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Too Much Information?
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Too Much Information?
Yep.
OMG DQMOT but DYK? BLNT GTG BBFN!
http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp (http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp)
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I have to agree with many of the others. To me, the Concours is plenty powerful enough to do anything I would ever want or need. And no affordable ST can currently out perform it. I am more focused on reliability, efficiency, and comfort, which is what VVT, lower end tuning, shaft drive, etc offer. The Concours offers an excellent combination of power/performance, fuel economy, and drivability backed by the industry's best warranty.
If Kawasaki wants to be creative, they should listen to the myriad of suggestions on the board, already- things like CRUISE CONTROL, HID LIGHTING, more adjustability for bars and seats, 100% LED lighting, built-in tip-over protection, and refined KIPASS that lets you unlock EVERYTHING without a key, not just the ignition. And consider options for even more stuff ST riders often want: alarm, nav, com, and convenience lighting come to mind.
Of course, I am certainly not opposed to increased power, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of reliability, efficiency, and comfort. :)
+1
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+1 on Maxtog's reply. I love my 14, enough power to overwhelm me already. Cruise control and a better seat would be all I would like for my 08. Went to buy an FZ-09 a while back, and the insurance for it was three times what I am paying for the C14, and it is under 1K cc's. The cost to insure a C14 with 200 HP, would make it unapproachable for me and so many other potential owners, I imagine. To me, if one wants HP, get a ZX14R, a PanigaleR/S or a BMW S1000RR. Or go crazy and get a new H2 or R1M. Insurance be damned, for those models, all right at 200HP or more, much more... tp
FWIW, I'm just too old to enjoy 200 HP on the street, any longer. tp
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If you want or "need" more power, get your wallet out. If it's that important, it shouldn't be a big deal to you to pay for it. Oh, wait, I forgot. You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueles.
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You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueless.
Agree. After 30 years in specialty sales I retired and went back into retail as a supplement to SS income . Customers want EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING, these days. I have to tell them, "Ain't gonna happen, Sir/Ma'am". Seems folks don't want it now, they want it yesterday, at decades ago prices. Get Real, is all that can be said.... tp
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If you want or "need" more power, get your wallet out. If it's that important, it shouldn't be a big deal to you to pay for it. Oh, wait, I forgot. You want the manufacturer to provide it at a nominal charge. Manufacturers have UNGODLY standards to meet when the produce a vehicle for public sale. If any of your argument contain the phrase "All you gotta is.... " or "Can't you just....." you are clueles.
Of course you can't get something for nothing. But what I could see as a possibility is Kawi building a Gen 3 C14 around the stroked 1441 cc engine. Just like they did with the original C14 from the original ZX14 and its 1352cc engine. Not 200hp like the ZX14R but ~150hp at the rear wheel stock instead of ~138hp. They are getting a lot of competition from other manufacturers and it is a game of one-up-manship. "Fasted sport touring bike period" would be another check mark for all the magazine reviews and keep them at the top of the game. Not the only reason but one of the main reasons I went with my 2010 C14 instead of a K1300GT, R1200RT, FJR or ST1300 was that this was the fastest bike in its class at the time. I suspect I'm not the only one.
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Not the only reason but one of the main reasons I went with my 2010 C14 instead of a K1300GT, R1200RT, FJR or ST1300 was that this was the fastest bike in its class at the time. I suspect I'm not the only one.
I got mine because of the great deal offered to me. Haven't regretted owning it for a second, except maybe for the stupid flashing dash, warning tire sensor batteries are bad when it gets cold. Thank God it only gets cold a few days a year here.
BTW, you still enjoying the Hill Country? tomp
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Everyone here knows that the C-14 is probably the best and most durable engine in it's class- it will walk away from a FJR1300 and a K-1600 as is. But, Kawasaki also wants to maintain a "value" market position with the C-14 for now. Don't expect to see the more expensive ZX-14r engine inserted anytime soon.
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Everyone here knows that the C-14 is probably the best and most durable engine in it's class- it will walk away from a FJR1300 and a K-1600 as is. But, Kawasaki also wants to maintain a "value" market position with the C-14 for now. Don't expect to see the more expensive ZX-14r engine inserted anytime soon.
I don't disagree at all. But keep in mind that the C-14 1352cc engine is not the same as the ZX14 1325cc engine. They share crank shaft, case, heads (I think) but have different pistons, cams, valves, TB's, etc. Would it really be that much more expensive to share the crank shaft, case and heads with the ZX14R 1441cc engine? Just asking...
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I got mine because of the great deal offered to me. Haven't regretted owning it for a second, except maybe for the stupid flashing dash, warning tire sensor batteries are bad when it gets cold. Thank God it only gets cold a few days a year here.
BTW, you still enjoying the Hill Country? tomp
Totally agree on the stupid flashing dash. A buddy of mine, after riding my C14, just last week bought a 2011 with 2500 miles on it. The very first thing he complained about was the stupid flashing dash about the low TPMS battery.
Yup, still enjoying the Hill Country every chance I get. My wife is still at the house in CO and says there is so much snow there is no place left to push it to.
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Totally agree on the stupid flashing dash. A buddy of mine, after riding my C14, just last week bought a 2011 with 2500 miles on it. The very first thing he complained about was the stupid flashing dash about the low TPMS battery.
Yup, still enjoying the Hill Country every chance I get. My wife is still at the house in CO and says there is so much snow there is no place left to push it to.
My son lives up there too, and being a Texan, he's seen more snow this winter than in his entire prior life time. Hope your wife is doing OK.
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Personally if my Connie have more hp I would get myself in more trouble than I can afford. ( I just renewed my registration and had to pay $300 in photo radar tickets).
As mentioned some nice upgrades would be well received .... CRUISE CONTROL, Heated seats, Blue tooth Audio, etc.
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I don't disagree at all. But keep in mind that the C-14 1352cc engine is not the same as the ZX14 1325cc engine. They share crank shaft, case, heads (I think) but have different pistons, cams, valves, TB's, etc. Would it really be that much more expensive to share the crank shaft, case and heads with the ZX14R 1441cc engine? Just asking...
Anything that changes exhaust emissions or a number of other Government regulations requires re-certification. And that costs $ and time. R. O. I. is a determining factor in any change in any manufacturing operation.
I am not theorizing about what is involved in changes that have been mentioned, I have very close friends that have to deal with them regularly. The noise emissions alone that manufacturers have to deal with are mind boggling.
Emissions testing on a new vehicle are getting stricter every year. 25 years ago, a vehicle was moved to a clean room, required to sit for a minimum of 4 hours to get to a predetermined temperature in a sealed, temp and humidity controlled chamber then started and run on a dyno from cold and then through a Government specified load test for 26 minutes. Multiple measurements were taken at the tailpipe at various points of the test. Also, total emissions for the 26 minutes were measured. It's gotten a lot more stringent since then. Small changes equals BIG money.
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Seems what you are saying is that the government really has no idea what they want, and screw manufacturers to meet their stupid new requirements, at the cost of our back pockets. I will keep my 08, and not give in to the government's controlling stupidity, thank you very much.... tp
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Very much so. Big Brother looking out for us.
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Very much so. Big Brother looking out for us.
""HI, I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT, AND AM HERE TO HELP YOU."" If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I know you would love to own.... Believe me,with 47 years in sales, I know about what I speak. Hee Hee Hee.... tp
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Seems what you are saying is that the government really has no idea what they want, and screw manufacturers to meet their stupid new requirements, at the cost of our back pockets. I will keep my 08, and not give in to the government's controlling stupidity, thank you very much.... tp
All that being said about big gubment, I am personally glad they mandated the use of catalytic converters, unleaded gas, and the logical progression to digital fuel injection for fuel mgm't.- these items have helped to make the best running internal combustion engine in history, and will prolong the inevitable demise to other designs of propulsion.
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All that being said about big gubment, I am personally glad they mandated the use of catalytic converters, unleaded gas, and the logical progression to digital fuel injection for fuel mgm't.- these items have helped to make the best running internal combustion engine in history, and will prolong the inevitable demise to other designs of propulsion.
Yep, but the EPA mandates have also created engines that have to run way too lean, to meet their required specs. That's why add on fuel management systems are now popular. So many of today's motorcycle engines have to run too hot to meet the lean specs, creating uncomfortable riding conditions. Air cooled Harleys, as well as many other bikes fall into that category. As if the minuscule amount of motorcycles on our roads really make an ecological difference.
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As if the minuscule amount of motorcycles on our roads really make an ecological difference.
Cow farts (methane) are wreaking havoc on our delicate ecological system. Or so says the EPA. :banghead:
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Oh, hell, I made a Kaw joke..... ;D
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^^^ :chugbeer:
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1441 is not going in the Concours any time soon. Said that three years ago in this very thread.
And yes, I have the ZX14 TBs, full exhaust, etc etc. So I would like more HP for sure.
Not
Going
To
Happen
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It is quite possible it will happen, but if it does, it would only be with the next major redesign of the Concours. Most of us have not expected that to happen anytime before 2016 at the earliest.
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It is quite possible it will happen, but if it does, it would only be with the next major redesign of the Concours. Most of us have not expected that to happen anytime before 2016 at the earliest.
Agree. When Kawi is ready for a big marketing splash, gen 3 C14, will be the time to do it if they do it all.
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I also don't believe it will happen. At least not in the same state of tune. The reason is obvious: a sportbike has a totally different use than a sport-touring bike. On a super naked? Yeah, sure. That trend started a while back. But on a 2-up sport-tourer, where better fuel economy and lower-end torque is more important? Makes little sense. Just give it enough to be ahead of its competition... and I believe it still is even at this old age :). It even beats the whale of the K1600 in acceleration and top speed. That one has more low-end torque for sure, but with its extra heft, they're pretty equal IMO. And the Connie is the first bike I ever own that is super relaxed on the highway... and I really value that. That's the reason why it has such a great range even with a smallish (by comparison) fuel tank. We should hear something about the replacement later this year, I guess. Have a good one.
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1441 Concours?
Not
Going
to
Happen
...
What would be really great would be a chassis redesign and a Concours that was 100 pounds lighter. The bike would be instantly faster, and more economical in every way. Better handling, etc.
Much bigger benefits than a larger engine with a little more power. I have one Concours with 160+ RWHP, and more is definitely better. But lighter weight is even better still. That would be a real improvement.
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That would be really great would be a chassis redesign and a Concours that was 100 pounds lighter.
And 2 inches lower + an adjustable seat.
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I'll say it one last time.
The 2012 and up ZX14R is a full 60 HP more than the Connie, and a full 150 LBS lighter.
If you haven't tried the 14R, you can't imagine. I know you think your bike is fast, and it is compared to your Buddy's bike. But compared to the 14R, it's impossibly slow and overweight.
You don't want that engine in your bike. Even if I've given it 5 more HP, and 5 less pounds, you don't want near that thing. It's insane. :o
I love my Connie. It's an awesome bike, but it has a totally different mission than the ZX14R. The worlds fastest production vehicle under 100,000 bucks.
It's a strap kit and pipe away from the mid-eights.
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp236/Jimmymac25/newnail001_zps6938e991.jpg) (http://s415.photobucket.com/user/Jimmymac25/media/newnail001_zps6938e991.jpg.html)
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I agree it wont happen. I like my concours 14 engine, but its not a great engine for a touring bike. It really does nto start working well until its at 120mph. Its fun, but something with more low end would be nice.
With the butterflies removed , its pretty good. Even though its more powerful than my Ninja 1000, you'd swear its not. Thats as much to do with gearing, but the overall feel.
The bigger zx14 motor is really more of the same. The zx14 would be incredible if it were set up for long distance riding. For 99% of street use, its riding position is comical. It feels great when your over 100mph, but under that, forget it. Its power is awesome, but BMW does that 200hp figure with 1000cc's, and a hundred pounds less weight than even the zx14.
They wont go to the big 14 motor because I think the party about over with regards to the massive engines and emissions. The next generation will likely be a smaller, 140 hp version of Kawasaki's h2.
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I don't see it happening: the ZX14R is the fastest production bike in the world.
"Oh, and by the way, we also stick the exact same motor in our sport tourer."
Would kinda take something away from their top dog, no?
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the only reason they de-tune ... yeah I said it Max(!), de-tune ... the C14 motor: so there's a performance gap between the two models sufficiently big enough in Mama Kaw's collective minds to make the big ZX stand alone.
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"Oh, and by the way, we also stick the exact same motor in our sport tourer." Would kinda take something away from their top dog, no?
Did it the first years of the C14 when it was the same displacement & block of the ZX14? Not really. It is just a matter of reusing existing R&D and parts. And that saves time, money, and brings better products to market more quickly, resulting in more sales and more profit while also making repair easier.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the only reason they de-tune ... yeah I said it Max(!),
It is not "de-tuned". It is tuned for different parameters which are important for a sport touring bike, such as longevity, reliability, comfort, efficiently, and smoothness, not for peak HP at the expense of everything else like on a super sport bike.
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I'll say it one last time. The 2012 and up ZX14R is a full 60 HP more than the Connie, and a full 150 LBS lighter.
And I'll say it one more time too: Stop exaggerating ;D. Go to Kawasaki's website and get the weight figures for both bikes (remember to deduct the bags on the Connie for an apples to apples comparison). And magazines for RWHP figures. It's 40 HP difference compared to newer C14s, and less than 100 lbs weight difference. The ZX14 is a supersport bike (drag bike), just like the Hayabusa. It's no sportbike; way too heavy, long, and low. Like somebody said, try a BMW S1000RR if you want a superfast and nimble 200HP sportbike (it even comes with cruise control now, electronic adjustable suspension, quick-shifter, heated grips, etc). And the reason it's faster (top speed) is because it's not speed-limited. Maybe it is, but no such comparo yet.
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And I'll say it one more time too: Stop exaggerating ;D. Go to Kawasaki's website and get the weight figures for both bikes (remember to deduct the bags on the Connie for an apples to apples comparison). And magazines for RWHP figures. It's 40 HP difference compared to newer C14s, and less than 100 lbs weight difference. The ZX14 is a supersport bike (drag bike), just like the Hayabusa. It's no sportbike; way too heavy, long, and low. Like somebody said, try a BMW S1000RR if you want a superfast and nimble 200HP sportbike (it even comes with cruise control now, electronic adjustable suspension, quick-shifter, heated grips, etc). And the reason it's faster (top speed) is because it's not speed-limited. Maybe it is, but no such comparo yet.
I understand you're new to this interweb thing... You're the one that needs to research things.
Screw Kawasaki's website. Go get some real info. Connies are lucky to put down 140 HP. ZX14R's lay down 190 something all day long. Get a grip dude. Your bike is slow.
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...
It is not "de-tuned". It is tuned for different parameters which are important for a sport touring bike, such as longevity, reliability, comfort, efficiently, and smoothness, not for peak HP at the expense of everything else like on a super sport bike.
De-tuned! De-tuned I say!!! These are just words, and I choose to use the word de-tuned! ... even though you don't happen to like it :chugbeer: I am, however, willing to remove the hyphen if you prefer :thumbs: :P
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De-tuned! De-tuned I say!!! These are just words, and I choose to use the word de-tuned! ... even though you don't happen to like it :chugbeer: I am, however, willing to remove the hyphen if you prefer :thumbs: :P
Sticks and stones!!!! :) Yes, they are just words- inaccurate and derogatory words.
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Sticks and stones!!!! :) Yes, they are just words- inaccurate and derogatory words.
Derogatory :rotflmao: :chugbeer:
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Word of the day! I just love it when the membership uses multi-syllable words! :banana
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Word of the day! I just love it when the membership uses multi-syllable words! :banana
:doh: doh
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Doh would not be one of those words, Gary. You'll have to try harder.
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C14's aren't slow.They don't perform acceleration wise, to the level of super/hyper sports bikes, or muscle bikes. They will in most cases kick the crap out of other makes in the Sport Touring group. They are comfortable for touring at all legal speeds, 45-80+ MPH, unlike those designed to be track bikes. Personally I have no idea what KHI will do, but if I really wanted a rocket, I would go for the new S1000RR, as a go faster, and keep my 14 for sane riding.
FWIW, not being derogatory towards the ZX14R, but having owned a ZZR1200, hyper sport bikes just aren't my thing, any longer, just no fun for me under 100MPH, and those speed are assured to cost me dearly with money or possibly my life.
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My 2008 has all the power I need. I'm not Valentino Rossi racing in a MotoGP. I don't need nor want ZX-14 power. If you want that kind of power, then more power to you but this isn't the platform for you to be riding. Get a used ZX-14 if you want that kind of power. The C14 is a great platform for sport touring and long distance riding. I've used it for both and don't need nor want to be the fastest bike on the planet. I would prefer them to keep the current engine and just add mods like cruise control.
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I would prefer them to keep the current engine and just add mods like cruise control.
+1 on that. Now if KHI was only reading our posts.
"Being such a slow bike, I wonder why they wasted time and money adding ABS and traction control?" Sarcasm now off....tp
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Sarcasm appreciated here, no need to stop.
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Doh would not be one of those words, Gary. You'll have to try harder.
:doh: doh-nut?
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Two syllables, not quite there yet, but I admire your tenacity. Please note that tenacity is a multi-syllable word.
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Antidisestablishmentarianism and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious... Enough syllables to pass muster? Both words based out of the UK...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRFHXMQP-QU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRFHXMQP-QU)
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Two syllables, not quite there yet, but I admire your tenacity. Please note that tenacity is a multi-syllable word.
Ya know, he was just talking about Perchloroethylene not all that long ago, so I can vouch for his ability to at least type big words...LOL>
Rem :o
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Sure, the Connie is fast. Just a slug compared to the '12 and up 14R.
And pretty pathetic compared to the earlier ZX14's.
It serves a different mission. 8)
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Sure, the Connie is fast. Just a slug compared to the '12 and up 14R.
And pretty pathetic compared to the earlier ZX14's.
It serves a different mission. 8)
I agree totally with your statement. I just bought a new 2014 Connie to go with my 2000 ZX12R Ninja. The Connie is not in the same league as my 12R as far as performance (183 hp at the rear wheel with the mods I have on it/ 463 lbs) but it has all day comfort and all the cool toys I have never had before, while still being able to dust 95% of the bikes on the road. It is a Cadillac CTS-V, as opposed to a Ford GT, and that is exactly why I bought it.
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Ya know, he was just talking about Perchloroethylene not all that long ago, so I can vouch for his ability to at least type big words...LOL>
Rem :o
Dry cleaning fluid, right?
What are these? Hint, I sold them for 30 yrs.
Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride, Alkyl dimethyl ethyl ammonium chloride,Nonylphenol polyethylene glycol ether, Tetrasodium Ethylenediamine tetraacetate.
Even if the 1441 went into the C14, it still will never be as quick as the ZX14R. My ZZR1200 was quicker than the 14 and it's now a 13 year old design. too much weight and design differences, so why make the change. Probably ruin the insurance rates everywhere. tp
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More thrust in the basement, much less up top. 8)
That ZZR was an animal.
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I'll say it one last time.
The 2012 and up ZX14R is a full 60 HP more than the Connie, and a full 150 LBS lighter.
...
hahahahhhaaaaaaa
I increased the horsepower to weight ratio on my '08 drastically this year, and it didn't cost me a penny...
I simply reduced my body-weight by 60 pounds...... 8) 8)
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I also don't believe it will happen. At least not in the same state of tune. The reason is obvious: a sportbike has a totally different use than a sport-touring bike. On a super naked? Yeah, sure. That trend started a while back. But on a 2-up sport-tourer, where better fuel economy and lower-end torque is more important? Makes little sense. Just give it enough to be ahead of its competition... and I believe it still is even at this old age :). It even beats the whale of the K1600 in acceleration and top speed. That one has more low-end torque for sure, but with its extra heft, they're pretty equal IMO. And the Connie is the first bike I ever own that is super relaxed on the highway... and I really value that. That's the reason why it has such a great range even with a smallish (by comparison) fuel tank. We should hear something about the replacement later this year, I guess. Have a good one.
Exactly! The C14 1352cc is a completely different state of tune from the ZX14 1352cc state of tune. All I'm saying is its not inconceivable that kawi takes the ZX14R 1441 cc engine and modifies it for touring the same way it did the original ZX14 engine.
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Everyone seems to forget the market segment that Kawasaki chooses to compete in. It is the "value" leader in the segment, and even dropped the price $500. for 2015 while doing some questionable changes (no one here was asking for a new first gear). In order to spike sales, the company is listening to the beancounters and IMHO will sqeeze this iteration until hell freezes over. No problem with me- this bike is fantastic and I plan to run "Black Bear" for 300,000 miles.
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:thumbs:
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The number of internet engineers, designers, marketing gurus, and corporate CEOs never ceases to amaze me when a manufacturer produces something that doesn't suit someone. If you know so much about it and could drastically increase profitability for Kawasaki, send them your resume. I'm SURE they will reply immediately with a 7 digit per year salary plus all of the associated perks to go with.
Speaking for myself, I'll simply make a few modifications to to make an affordable, dependable, motorcycle a bit more enjoyable for my physical attributes and riding style. 8)
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Get a grip dude. Your bike is slow.
Nobody is saying the Connie is faster/quicker than a ZX14... and that's the way we want it. But if you want any credibility here, post facts, not hyperbole ;). Ignored, to keep thread on subject.
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The number of internet engineers, designers, marketing gurus, and corporate CEOs never ceases to amaze me when a manufacturer produces something that doesn't suit someone. If you know so much about it and could drastically increase profitability for Kawasaki, send them your resume. I'm SURE they will reply immediately with a 7 digit per year salary plus all of the associated perks to go with.
Speaking for myself, I'll simply make a few modifications to to make an affordable, dependable, motorcycle a bit more enjoyable for my physical attributes and riding style. 8)
:thumbs:
Nobody is saying the Connie is faster/quicker than a ZX14... and that's the way we want it.
:thumbs:
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Everyone seems to forget the market segment that Kawasaki chooses to compete in. It is the "value" leader in the segment, and even dropped the price $500. for 2015 while doing some questionable changes (no one here was asking for a new first gear).
Well, not in so many words. However, some have commented on how gutless this bike is off the line, even though it has a large engine. The solution was to either remove the flies or get a guhl reprogram. Kawasaki solved it the butt backwards way by changing the first gear. I think everyone who has been guhl'd came away thinking "Yup, fixed that!" I will say that from I have read, those late opening flies are there to meet noise regulations. However, I have no idea if I'd like that shorter first, may not like having to shift early...
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Well, not in so many words. However, some have commented on how gutless this bike is off the line, even though it has a large engine. The solution was to either remove the flies or get a guhl reprogram. Kawasaki solved it the butt backwards way by changing the first gear. I think everyone who has been guhl'd came away thinking "Yup, fixed that!" I will say that from I have read, those late opening flies are there to meet noise regulations. However, I have no idea if I'd like that shorter first, may not like having to shift early...
In my mind, there is no question the stock addition and programming of the secondary bufferflies severely neuters the C14. It is just so much more alive and responsive with those things removed or Ghul'ed away. But there is NO question the intake noise is significantly louder. I think their primary purpose is noise control AND economy/emissions, with an oh-by-the-way for part of traction control. I don't think messing with first gear will in any way compensate for in-tact/stock "flies".
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Funny, but I like the amount of, or lack there of, low end immediate response. I have to travel so often in congested traffic, that the smoothness of pull off fits traffic movement very well. If I need acceleration, just twist the throttle a bit more and well, Off We Go, leaving traffic as just a small spot in my mirrors. I just wanted factory cruise control....tp
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I'm very used to high HP cars and motorcycles, and don't mind at all the power of my C14. It's more than enough for what it is. I think Kawi purposely limited power in 1st gear and maybe 2nd. Suzuki did the same thing with my ex-Hayabusa. Back then there was no TC, but it took off like a rocket. I by passed the limiters, and it was a handful, and not any quicker, so I put it back to stock. Now with TC would be a different story, but without a lenghtened wheelbase, it wasn't really manageable. Same thing with today's megaHP RWD cars; they just can't put the power down. I can beat the crap out of my brother's Ferraris with my new (stock) GTR, with less HP (but AWD -or FWD assist, since it's 100% RWD without slip). My Vette had similar power, but was also a handful. I enjoyed the challenge of driving it at its limits, but it's not for the novice. I've had plenty of track schools in both cars and motorcycles, and I don't agree with the adage of there's never enough HP. Have seen plenty of guys with lots more HP than me, and in the mountains, leave them for dead in both cars and bikes... AND in sportier machinery than mine. Maybe it's my age, but I'm done riding bikes 190+ mph ;D. Now, if I can't beat this leukemia, then maybe. Ha ha. Have a good one.
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Now, if I can't beat this leukemia, then maybe. Ha ha. Have a good one.
No platitudes here. I am really sorry that the Big C is attempting to take you over. May God bless and heal you. My ex fought off Lymphoma a couple of years ago, but lost my mother to it at the same time. Good things happen every day, and I pray good things for you. You may or may not be a believer, that's your decision in life. I am, and this is what I think and do for you. Know that you do have internet friends out here. tomp
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If everyone is happy with the power the C14 has then why are so many pulling the flys, putting Area P full exhaust and PC-V's on their bikes? Clearly there is a market for a faster C14.
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If everyone is happy with the power the C14 has then why are so many pulling the flys, putting Area P full exhaust and PC-V's on their bikes? Clearly there is a market for a faster C14.
Just a wild guess here, but if all C14 owners in the US were polled, not just the members of this forum, I would bet that around 80-90% are riding stock bikes, and very happy with them. Kinda like when a few % of owners of any given motorcycle have the same or similar problem, the forums make it seem as if every owner is suffering with the same malady, which scares potential buyers away, after visiting the forum and getting exaggerated information ..
Example, I read a review of the 15 C14, and the reviewer made some negative comments. A commenter stated his thanks for the review, and said he would never own one now, after reading just one rider's opinion. Silly man, he will now never own the finest ST mount, just because someone told him not to, kinda. Just some wandering thoughts on a day off... tomp
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If everyone is happy with the power the C14 has then why are so many pulling the flys, putting Area P full exhaust and PC-V's on their bikes? Clearly there is a market for a faster C14.
Do you really think that if KHI produced a Concour with, let's just say, 175 rwhp, people would leave it stock? For me, modifying a motorcycle is part of the ownership experience. I don't want my bike to be just like anyone else's. It's also an ego thing. I don't want to be slower than "the same bike". I put in cams and did some other work to my last bike and didn't tell the guys I rode with about doing it. It really chapped their behinds when I would keep up with modified bikes and say "Boy, I guess that engine work you had done wasn't really very cost effective, was it?" 8)
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It really chapped their behinds when I would keep up with modified bikes and say "Boy, I guess that engine work you had done wasn't really very cost effective, was it?" 8)
YOU SNEEKY DUDE, YOU.... ;D ;D ;D
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I will also not let them know how fast the Concour really is until there is some $ involved. Even then I will do my best to just barely win. Sandbagging is an art form..... ;)
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I guess I feel that power is a lot like bacon. No such thing as too much. ;D
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I'm not going to touch my bike mechanically; it's as good as I've ever owned right off the bat. Only changed the can, but with the quietest dB insert, since I just couldn't stand the stock abomination. Plus I saved a few pounds ;). I'll even leave the charcoal crap alone, since it affects idle. The can backfires momentarily when chopping the throttle, but that doesn't bother me, so will leave the air injection crap too, to protect the cats. It's nice for a change not having my garage stink when I park the bike (especially hot), or gear smell like crap due to dirty exhaust ;D. Plenty of power for the purpose of the bike. Will render final judgment after a long trip, but that would only lead to ergonomic changes, not mechanical ones, I assume. Have a great afternoon gang.
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I guess I feel that power is a lot like bacon. No such thing as too much. ;D
LOL! You made me snort coffee!
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I guess I feel that power is a lot like bacon. No such thing as too much. ;D
:battle:
Some of us are semi or full vegetarian! ANY amount of bacon is too much!!!
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I like bacon in moderation.
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I like bacon in moderation.
Just had a pizza with bacon on it. Like most things that taste good, Ice Cream, German Chocolate Cake, 24oz dry aged steak, etc, too much bacon isn't suppose to be good for you. Well maybe they are OK after all. My mother ate everything listed and lived to 92 (cancer battle) My dad is 98 and has eaten ice cream and a double handful of roasted peanuts every night, for at least as long as I have lived, almost 65 yrs, and neither ever got fat doing so. So enjoy what ever trips your trigger, carnivore, herbivore, or omnivore. ;D
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So enjoy what ever trips your trigger, carnivore, herbivore, or omnivore. ;D
You can never have too much chocolate! :)
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I like bacon in moderation.
I like Canadian bacon and beer a lot and and mooses in moderation.
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I like Canadian bacon and beer a lot and and mooses in moderation.
Now were talking, Canadian bacon, beer and a couple of moose, but not too many moose.
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One man's excess is another man's moderation
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One of my customers gave me a piece of chocolate covered bacon. It was amazing. Its was a concours 14 in a group of mopeds. What a combo!
I dont see them adding power to this platform. They already restrict low end. Can you imagine them testing a reflashed c14, or one with the powercommander and butterfly removal mod?
Kawasaki could easily tune the bike to that level and chose not to.
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Was reading a C14 review yesterday, and the reviewer, said that KHI needed to place the 14R engine into the Connie, to put it back on the top of the ST ladder. He didn't speculate as to whether that would ever happen, he just felt that it should. I think that cruise control is more important than a bigger engine, but KHI probably isn't listening to me either... tp >:( ;D
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Was reading a C14 review yesterday, and the reviewer, said that KHI needed to place the 14R engine into the Connie, to put it back on the top of the ST ladder. He didn't speculate as to whether that would ever happen, he just felt that it should. I think that cruise control is more important than a bigger engine, but KHI probably isn't listening to me either... tp >:( ;D
That's what I've been saying. I guess I don't care about CC because I already have it.
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Was reading a C14 review yesterday, and the reviewer, said that KHI needed to place the 14R engine into the Connie, to put it back on the top of the ST ladder.
I am not disagreeing with upgrading the engine, but how is it not already not at the top of the ST ladder?
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I am not disagreeing with upgrading the engine, but how is it not already not at the top of the ST ladder?
Not me speaking here, but what I read. Electronic suspension, cruise control, built in or add on integrated nav system, integrated bluetooth/audio system, more sophisticated computer system, with other bells and whistles.
Now me speaking, Nav is nice but I don't need turn by turn to enjoy a ride. Had electronic suspension on an RT, and it was great, but not worth the extra thousands required to have. Audio/bluetooth is ok riding two up, but the last thing I need is to answer my phone or speak with another when riding. Tunes are cool, but any mp3 and earbuds fix that. That leaves cruise control. Some have corrected that with a Rostra system.
My 08 C14 isn't perfect, but is the best ST bike I have ever owned, and I have owned at least six. To heck with the ladder, let's ride and enjoy the ride, every single outing. tp
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To heck with the ladder, let's ride and enjoy the ride, every single outing. tp
+100 :banana
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Not me speaking here, but what I read. Electronic suspension, cruise control, built in or add on integrated nav system, integrated bluetooth/audio system, more sophisticated computer system, with other bells and whistles.
Oh, no doubt. Always room for improvement (if we can afford it). But I thought by the engine comment, it was more about a question of ST performance (speed/acceleration/etc).... and the C14 is either at or tied at the top in that regard (as far as I know).
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Oh, no doubt. Always room for improvement (if we can afford it). But I thought by the engine comment, it was more about a question of ST performance (speed/acceleration/etc).... and the C14 is either at or tied at the top in that regard (as far as I know).
Agree there. The K1600's produce fewer rear wheel HP than we do. Nothing else comes close. Wish I was 30+ years younger with my level of experience. I would have a 14R with Bags in the garage, just for those insane trips. No, not the chemically induced ones of the early 70's, the ones where tunnel vision eventually kicks in when terminal velocity is reached.... Never so brave(stupid) again. tp
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The can backfires momentarily when chopping the throttle, but that doesn't bother me, so will leave the air injection crap too, to protect the cats.
I may be having a senior moment, but just what is this "air injection crap" of which you speak?
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I may be having a senior moment, but just what is this "air injection crap" of which you speak?
It's at the top of the valve covers.
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I may be having a senior moment, but just what is this "air injection crap" of which you speak?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection)
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Isn't that also the hose from the airbox that I plugged so it wouldn't screw with the O2 sensor?
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Our bike does not use a pump to inject air in the exhaust. The C14 and many bikes have pair valves that are one way valves that allow a small amount of air into the exhaust when there is momentary low pressure with the throttle closed. This allows some oxygen to burn off excess fuel in the exhaust. Some times the burning can be energetic and cause backfiring or popping. Closing off the hose to the pair valves restrict the amount of air and can reduce popping.
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I was just reading about the 2015 Multistrada 1200S. That bike can certainly be considered in the ST segment. It has 160 hp and still under 500 lbs dry. More hp then the C14 and almost 200 lbs lighter. I know a big difference in price but the C14 is no longer the performance leader in the ST segment. A bump in HP wouldn't be the worst thing Kawi could do to this bike.
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Isn't that also the hose from the airbox that I plugged so it wouldn't screw with the O2 sensor?
We don't have 02 sensors unless you've added one.
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I was just reading about the 2015 Multistrada 1200S. That bike can certainly be considered in the ST segment. It has 160 hp and still under 500 lbs dry. More hp then the C14 and almost 200 lbs lighter. I know a big difference in price but the C14 is no longer the performance leader in the ST segment. A bump in HP wouldn't be the worst thing Kawi could do to this bike.
Saw one Saturday. Nice looking bike. Not the element protection the 14 has. Ducati does everything THEIR way and doesn't care what others think or say. The MS would be a great road bike, especially if the owner lived where there were twisties. In my locale, it would just be a new VStrom 1000 on steroids at 2X the price. Sport Touring requirements have gone through many revisions through the years.
Rhino, it would be a great ride for where you are from, or currently residing.
Read on the UK site that a GTR1400 owner replaced his with the new Yamaha Tracer, or FJ-09 here in the States. For $10.5K, it's going to be a fantastic ST ride, too.
(http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2015-Yamaha-FJ-09-test-review-static.jpg)
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I was just reading about the 2015 Multistrada 1200S. That bike can certainly be considered in the ST segment.
Peoples' definitions of sports touring varies, but I wouldn't consider it in the same class. It is chain drive, it has only a small, MANUALLY adjustable windscreen that can only move 60mm (2.25"), handlebar mounted mirrors, less fairing, smaller electrical system, etc.
It has 160 hp and still under 500 lbs dry. More hp then the C14 and almost 200 lbs lighter. I know a big difference in price but the C14 is no longer the performance leader in the ST segment. A bump in HP wouldn't be the worst thing Kawi could do to this bike.
It is only 3 hp more (160 vs 157, with ram, at crank, depending on source) . And it is 150 pounds lighter, not 200 (520 vs 670 wet) and that still isn't right because the 670 on the Concours is WITH BAGS and it is without bags on the 1200S (I can't find the with bags on the 1200S).
A bump in HP wouldn't be the worst thing Kawi could do to this bike.
I don't think it would be a bad thing. :)
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I don't disagree about chain drive and no electric windshield but the 2015 curb weight of the C14 is 690 lbs. 170 lbs difference is huge.
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I don't disagree about chain drive and no electric windshield but the 2015 curb weight of the C14 is 690 lbs.
Eeew, the site I referenced is wrong, or something changed. Have to make a note of that.
170 lbs difference is huge.
True
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We don't have 02 sensors unless you've added one.
yep
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I don't disagree about chain drive and no electric windshield but the 2015 curb weight of the C14 is 690 lbs. 170 lbs difference is huge.
Must be that new mail slot in the windshield.
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If I had the need and $$$$, I would go for the KTM 1290 Super Adventure. 550 LBs, with 7.4 gallons of fuel. and 160HP, too. The handling of any KTM is, excuse the word, AWESOME. It's not the super Duke's HP level, but neither is the C14 the ZX14R's.
I can't figure out where the extra weight is being carried of the new C14, either. Possibly around the middle, like mine..... tp
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I don't disagree about chain drive and no electric windshield but the 2015 curb weight of the C14 is 690 lbs.
Eeew, the site I referenced is wrong, or something changed. Have to make a note of that.
I just checked the manual. The C14 is 662 wet without bags (D) or 670 non-D and 679 with bags (D) or 688 non-D. What is "(D)" ? The manual doesn't say. Might be non-California model is D?
So the site I was using actually is correct... sorta. Now, why would the 2015 weigh more? Could be the site is wrong. The mailslot thing and a repadded seat is not going to add more than a few pounds....
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From Kawi USA site
Frame TypeMonocoque Aluminum
Rake/Trail26.0 degrees / 4.4 in
Overall Length87.8 in
Overall Width39.4 in
Overall Height52.9 in / 57.7 in (windscreen DN/UP)
Ground Clearance4.9 in
Seat Height32.1 in
Curb Weight690.2 lb**
Fuel Capacity5.8 gal
Wheelbase59.8 in
The ** refers to gas tank 90% full, and all other fluids.
Rider magazine specs for the 2010. Same weight. Where did we go amiss???
CHASSIS
Tires, Front: 120/70-ZR17
Rear: 190/50-ZR17
Wet Weight: 690 lbs.
Load Capacity: 482 lbs.
GVWR: 1,172 lbs.
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From Kawi USA site Curb Weight690.2 lb**
The ** refers to gas tank 90% full, and all other fluids. It has gotten heavier, I guess. tp
Exactly. How did it go from 679 (D)/wet/bags to 690.2? Perhaps it is the non-D weight of 688... then it is only 2 pounds. THAT I believe.
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All 2015 bikes seem to be 50-state bikes. The 3 I've asked/seen, have all the CA crap, including mine. Manual still mentions a different CA model, but so far seems to be wrong. That's why. The windscreen is also a bit heavier with all the added stuff, but mostly is the CA stuff and larger cats. Don't remember where I saw that, so don't quote me on that, but makes sense.