C14 aftermarket LED brake light / ???

[maxtog]

Steve, I was having a conversation with someone I work with today about LED lighting (I work in the electrical supply industry).  He was telling me that some LED's can be dimmed with conventional dimmers.  If I get time, I may go buy a super bright LED (might even have one already) and go down to Radio Shack and pick up a cheap DC dimmer and try it.  Just food for thought right now.  If it works, you would have a completely variable brightness control.

That is not likely to work.  LED's can be dimmed a little bit by lowering the voltage, but they are often not happy about it.  The typical way LED's are "dimmed" is to strobe them at very high frequencies.  I think you would have better results by popping off the lens and obscuring it a bit with something.  Maybe something as simple as a piece of paper...  (been there, done that   )

[Breaker19]

Yes, agree. The way its done on LED light bars (and formerly on incandescent light bars) is to simply turn off some of the individual lights when toggled. For example, KKK1822 DOT Ambulance specs and I believe also NFPA1901 for fire apparatus requires that when the vehicle is put into neutral or park, and the master brake is applied, an interlock circuit engages which turns off certain forward-facing flashing lights. This is to prevent blinding oncoming drivers if the apparatus is parked in a roadway, especially at night -- and nearly essential for wig-wag headlights. For a small public safety rated flashing LED, it'd have to have that feature and the wiring to power up fewer of the LED's under certain circumstances. I would wager Whelen or another company might actually make something like this, but probably not in the 4-LED small surface-mount variety.

I think the best solution is to again, hook something like this up to a timed relay. The one I ordered I am familiar with from back in the day installing car stereos and alarms and such... it can be set to "latch" for a certain amount of time, then "unlatch" after that time expires. Then, when it sees a loss of power after unlatching (equivalent to releasing the brake(s), next time it "sees" power it'll repeat the process over again.

[jjsC6]

That is not likely to work.  LED's can be dimmed a little bit by lowering the voltage, but they are often not happy about it.  The typical way LED's are "dimmed" is to strobe them at very high frequencies.  I think you would have better results by popping off the lens and obscuring it a bit with something.  Maybe something as simple as a piece of paper...  (been there, done that   )

I have a block of super bright LED's that Marc Parnes sells for radar detectors.  It plugs into the external speaker output of my Beltronics radar detector.  The volume control does vary the brightness of the LED's.  These operate on 5 volts btw.  I may run to Radio Shack if I have time tomorrow and do some experimenting.  I do agree that LED's are not considered easily dimmable, but the guy I work with says they discovered it working with some engineers for a very large company who shall remain nameless that we sell them to.  He has no idea what types can and can't be as the products we sell are very specialized industrial fixtures and are early in their product life cycle.

[jjsC6]

Okay, true to my word, I tried a dimmer on a super bright LED today.  I had the LED laying around the garage (yes, I'm weird like that).  I ran down to Fry's and bought a potentiometer (which is also where I bought the LED a while back).  As a disclaimer, I have been in the electrical industry all my life on the sales, marketing and sales management end, but I am not an engineer.  I understand basic electricity, I know ohms law, and I frequently do wiring around the house.

I ran the hot wire off my motorcycle battery, through the dimmer (easier than trying to remember how to spell potentiometer) and to the LED, grounded back to the battery.  The dimmer did a fine job of dimming the light.  Not being an engineer, I did not know which dimmer to buy - rated in different Ohms that were available.  After experimenting, this one definitely dims it and does it in a very linear fashion, but next time I would probably buy one with a higher max resistance.

My disclaimer is that I don't know if different LED's respond differently, but this responded well enough that if Steve wants to try messing with either a dimmer or an inline resistor that there is very little money involved to try it, and I give it a good chance of working. 

[stevewfl]

thanks! 

[jjsC6]

Steve, the one thing I am curious about is whether dimming would work if you have it set to a pattern that is not continuously on.  The unit you bought obviously has some sort of electronic circuitry that allows you to change the pattern.  I can see as how that might effect the ability to dim it, but I have no way of knowing without testing it. 

[Breaker19]

I received my pulse timer relay in the mail today, I'm going to install it tomorrow. I'll get a few pics to show y'all what I did, if you're interested. Grabbed the installation paper from online (the one that came in the box is WAY too small a print for my eyes to see)... so I'll fuss with it then. It'll be a quick change from the relay I have in there.

[rtarp1]

there is nothing wrong with having your highbeams on during the day.

[Conrad]

there is nothing wrong with having your highbeams on during the day.

That's the way I roll, I'm sorry if others don't like it. Too damn bad.

[maxtog]

there is nothing wrong with having your highbeams on during the day.

Oh yes there most certainly is.  High beams can and will blind and/or dazzle oncoming traffic in the daytime which is not only annoying, but also dangerous.  It makes it MUCH harder to tell where the bike is/how far it is away, or which lane it is in.  This tends to throw away many possible safety gains.

If you want more front visibility, I think the best thing to do is to add properly adjusted, wide-angle driving/running lamps as far away from the headlights as possible.  And preferably yellow for additional contrast.  This provides more frontal area, a bigger apparent vehicle size, and more geometric clues for distance calculation.  Plus it helps not only in the day, but also at night, and for more angles/situations.

[Conrad]

Oh yes there most certainly is.  And this has been covered before.  High beams can and will blind and/or dazzle oncoming traffic in the daytime which is not only annoying, but also dangerous.  It makes it MUCH harder to tell where the bike is/how far it is away, or which lane it is in.  This tends to throw away any possible safety gains.

If you want more front visibility, the best thing to do is to add properly adjusted, wide-angle driving/running lamps as far away from the headlights as possible.  And preferably yellow for additional contrast.  This provides more frontal area, a bigger apparent vehicle size, and more geometric clues for distance calculation.

But you may believe what you like.

I've taken three MSF courses and every single one of the instructors said that same thing, use your high beams during the day for added visibility. The MSF videos say the same thing. That's what I do and I've never had any issues related to this.

You're right, we'll agree to disagree on this subject.

[lt1]

Daytime highbeam headlight use is the visual equivalent of loud pipes save lives.  There is some small portion of truth of getting attention, no evidence of actual accident reduction, while being annoying and discourteous to others.  It is a position often fanatically held by those who do it, while often astounding those who don't practice it with the rudeness/inconsideration involved. 

If you want to be the life of the party, shine a flashlight in the eyes of your friends and give them a blast with an air horn.  Or maybe just do it walking down the sidewalk so nobody will bump into you.  Yep, that's the way to build good will and better friendships.  Or not.

As maxtog noted, daytime highbeam use makes distance and speed perception of the motorcycle more difficult.  It is also illegal in some states.  The wording is a bit vague in AZ, but it appears to be illegal w/in 500 feet of oncoming traffic and 200 feet of followed traffic.

[Breaker19]

Here's an interesting link on this topic of high-beams:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle49-50.html

Specifically, the second bullet point about mid-page:

Using the high beam of a motorcycle’s headlight during the day also helps to prevent violations of the motorcyclist’s right-of-way (Hurt, 1981).

Speaking of conspicuity (this page section title), here's yet another interesting tidbit about motion induced blindness (from the MSF website):

http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html

Finally, here's an interesting video from the UK, I believe, regarding visibility and focal aspects of a motorcycle approaching a 4-wheeled vehicle which isn't moving (i.e. preparing to pull out into the roadway):

Crash Course - The SMIDSY

SMIDSY: "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"

[Breaker19]

Oh, and what I forgot to add -- think about the "camouflage" theory in the video, relative to a single bike... and then, how about group riding in a nice tight, but safe formation? This theoretically would increase the "size" of the visual package from other drivers perspective and may be why, at least in my experience, group riding seems to make us all more visible.

[Breaker19]

I installed my DEI (Directed Electronics Inc.) pulse timer relay this morning. Works great. With the brakes held on, the OE brake light stays constant, my trunk lights stay lit constant also, and the super bright Whelen flasher stays on about 6-7 seconds. I can turn it longer or shorter too.

This way, sitting still where I have to keep the brake on or in other scenarios where the brakes may be slightly applied enough to trigger the lights for a longer period, the super bright light won't stay flashing constantly.

Upon release and reapplication of the brakes the cycle starts over again.

[maxtog]

Specifically, the second bullet point about mid-page:

Using the high beam of a motorcycle’s headlight during the day also helps to prevent violations of the motorcyclist’s right-of-way (Hurt, 1981).

Yep that is the same ONLY reference I was ever able to find, one person's position back in 1981- Hurt.  Hardly scientific, never cross-examined, and 31 years old.  Overall, not impressive.

Speaking of conspicuity (this page section title), here's yet another interesting tidbit about motion induced blindness (from the MSF website):

http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html

Interesting, but there wasn't any article attached to it.  Just as interesting is this page:  http://online2.msf-usa.org/msf/Default.aspx  at the time I am writing this, notice the video promo on the upper right- it is featuring a Silver 2011 Concours!!! That's my bike!  (Well, same model/year/color, anyway) 

Finally, here's an interesting video from the UK, I believe, regarding visibility and focal aspects of a motorcycle approaching a 4-wheeled vehicle which isn't moving (i.e. preparing to pull out into the roadway) [...] SMIDSY: "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"

Ooooh, very interesting!  Very worth watching.  I have often had that OMG- this is a situation where they are likely to not see me and I get very nervous and try to go over the options in my head.  That is a WONDERFUL idea of just weaving a bit- it is amazing just how much more visible the bike is from a distance when it does that little bit of weaving!!!  I am definitely going to try using that from now on.  Thanks

[Conrad]

Daytime highbeam headlight use is the visual equivalent of loud pipes save lives.  There is some small portion of truth of getting attention, no evidence of actual accident reduction, while being annoying and discourteous to others.  It is a position often fanatically held by those who do it, while often astounding those who don't practice it with the rudeness/inconsideration involved. 

If you want to be the life of the party, shine a flashlight in the eyes of your friends and give them a blast with an air horn.  Or maybe just do it walking down the sidewalk so nobody will bump into you.  Yep, that's the way to build good will and better friendships.  Or not.

As maxtog noted, daytime highbeam use makes distance and speed perception of the motorcycle more difficult.  It is also illegal in some states.  The wording is a bit vague in AZ, but it appears to be illegal w/in 500 feet of oncoming traffic and 200 feet of followed traffic.

I've never heard of the MSF endorsing loud pipes but I have heard of them endorsing use of your high beams during the day. As I told Max, I don't take everything that the MSF says as gospel but for me, this one makes sense. I certainly don't consider myself fanatical about it and I won't try to convince anyone else to use their high beams during the day, to each their own.

As for being the life of the party? I don't know how you party Clyde but flashlights and air horns are seldom used at any parties that I attend. Maybe that's why I rarely get invited? I'll try to remember to bring my own next time and see how that goes.

I guess I make a poor ambassador for the motorcycle community after all. Oh the humanity.

[Conrad]

Ooooh, very interesting!  Very worth watching.  I have often had that OMG- this is a situation where they are likely to not see me and I get very nervous and try to go over the options in my head.  That is a WONDERFUL idea of just weaving a bit- it is amazing just how much more visible the bike is from a distance when it does that little bit of weaving!!!  I am definitely going to try using that from now on.  Thanks

I've been using that lil weave when approaching someone that I feel either, hasn't seen me on the bike, or that may be thinking of pulling out in front of me, ever since I watched that video. The weave seems to help get their attention, that and my high beams.   
 

[rcannon409]

With regards to the 81 hurt report and, high beam,  I dont recall any motorcycle back then that had much more than a decent light up front. Certainly nothign out there liek the c14 light system.  The first bike that was nto scary to ride at night...well, within reasonable speeds, anyway.

[maxtog]

With regards to the 81 hurt report and, high beam,  I dont recall any motorcycle back then that had much more than a decent light up front. Certainly nothing out there like the c14 light system.  The first bike that was not scary to ride at night...well, within reasonable speeds, anyway.

Exactly.  I didn't even have a driver's license in 1981!  Cars back then had incredibly dim and poor quality headlights.  They were still using sealed beam.  Halogen wouldn't even come on the scene for several years later.  And general bike technology was even worse.  I would estimate a typical 1981 bike would have less than 1/5th the light output of the Concours 14.