Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: tjhess74 on November 26, 2017, 08:36:00 PM
-
I have been involved with the Concours Owner's organizations (loose wording to encompass the many utterings thereof over the years) for roughly 15 years, ever since I bought my '97 and later, my '08. At that point, I was no newbie to motorcycles, having grown up on them. As so many of you can attest, we grew up without the benefit (arguable point) of the internet and the many motorcycle forums that exist there. We learned from those around us and from a healthy dose of trial and error.
Over the last several years, I made efforts with my limited time to actively help out with "the Owner's forum" group. I partook in out-of-state rides and volunteered at events like the motorcycle shows that used to happen in the Southeast. I fully acknowledge that I didn't contribute much, but that's not because I didn't want to. Despite that, I have a very short fuse when it comes to bickering and shenanigans between a bunch of people that are supposed to support the same cause. It was those shenanigans that kept me at bay from actually doing more with "the Group". Upon "the Split", I saw a sharp rise in nonsense, which was quite disheartening. It lead me to no longer be a paid member, as I cannot willingly support said nonsense. It wasn't too long after that, when "the Other" site locked out non paying members. So be it. It has soured me a bit and caused me to step back and not be as active as I once was on either forum.
But now, I have learned that the unforgivable has happened. The shenanigans have boiled over and someone that I respect to the utmost has decided it is time to leave. As some of you may already know, long time member and likely one of the most valuable members this line of motorcycles has ever seen, Fred Harmon, has decided to call it quits. His internet and physical presence, and value, will be gone to all of us. The rhetoric, the backstabbing, the insults, the criticism, and lack of support from those in charge has lead him to say it is no longer worth it. Fred dedicated his entire adult life, as an engineer, to making things better. His generosity lead him to devote much of his time and money into helping us make our Connies better, and helped many of us save thousands of dollars in showing us how to perform complicated maintenance procedures on our own.
It's all I can do at this point to not go off on a profanity laced tirade, partly because it wouldn't make it to print any way. But to those in the leadership positions at "the Other forum", F#&K YOU. You have allowed good members to get so frustrated with your inept manner of organization and leadership, that they have left one of the most technically valuable forums on the internet. Each one of you should be absolutely ashamed at your high school level cliques and petty devisiveness. It is beyond comprehension how a few immature asshats can be allowed to chase off well established and valuable members. Even the hardest of stones can be worn down to nothing, given enough time. If you are one of those that contributed to this outcome, then F#& YOU, too. The sharing of knowledge is one of our most valuable resources as humans, and stupid bitches like you have ruined a perfectly good thing.
I have taken some time to calm down prior to writing this, as my original paragraphs were unpleasant. As our bikes get more technologically complicated, we can all benefit from the MANY amazing members like Fred, who have shared so much with us, with nothing asked in return. My '08 was the most advanced bike I'd ever owned, and thus equally as complicated. Guys like Fred saved me untold money and time in diving in and getting to task. Think about this fact: motorcycles will only get more advanced and complicated. We are now even closer to facing these technical challenges on our own.
Fred, if you ever read this, you have my depth of gratitude for what you have done for us. It saddens me to no end that certain individuals could not, or would not, be restrained to prevent the damage they have caused. I beg you to reconsider, but I do not blame you for your decision.
It matters not to me if you disagree. Some people just have a hard time with facts.
-
The COG forum does not prohibit non- paying members from using the forum, reading AND posting. The COG members (paid members) have a little flag that indicates status: active, while the non- paying "members" have that same flag set to 'Forum Subscriber', which means that person is NOT a current member of COG and merely a forum guest. So unless you personally have been banned, you can go there anytime, sign up and post if you choose to do so.
As to the rest of of your post, I also saw those threads but know the friction goes back much, much further that the last few days or 2017 or anything like that. A long time ago, fur was rubbed the wrong way (I do not know by whom) and unfortunately it set off a lot of the crankiness that fed into the current situation. I am not taking sides, merely saying that the initial cause of a great deal of the unhappiness there is not between those two people and it goes back a long way (years).
They do have new management in quite a few positions there and I know a few of them: good people, trying to do the very best of what they see as the 'right thing'. And mostly, I think they are doing a good job and trying to steer the organization to better places but they have constraints, none of them, at least none that I know personally are dictatorial, and they have to work w/in the framework of the of that organization and different members are pulling in different directions, which is normal and to be expected in any sizable organization with no real rules or constraints on the members. I do not believe they will act summarily and do anything drastic such as take sides, choose the 'more popular' of any combatants and throw the other one out, etc. Of course I speak for no one at COG and this is simply my opinion so take it for what it is worth.
Brian
I have been involved with the Concours Owner's organizations (loose wording to encompass the many utterings thereof over the years) for roughly 15 years, ever since I bought my '97 and later, my '08. At that point, I was no newbie to motorcycles, having grown up on them. As so many of you can attest, we grew up without the benefit (arguable point) of the internet and the many motorcycle forums that exist there. We learned from those around us and from a healthy dose of trial and error.
Over the last several years, I made efforts with my limited time to actively help out with "the Owner's forum" group. I partook in out-of-state rides and volunteered at events like the motorcycle shows that used to happen in the Southeast. I fully acknowledge that I didn't contribute much, but that's not because I didn't want to. Despite that, I have a very short fuse when it comes to bickering and shenanigans between a bunch of people that are supposed to support the same cause. It was those shenanigans that kept me at bay from actually doing more with "the Group". Upon "the Split", I saw a sharp rise in nonsense, which was quite disheartening. It lead me to no longer be a paid member, as I cannot willingly support said nonsense. It wasn't too long after that, when "the Other" site locked out non paying members. So be it. It has soured me a bit and caused me to step back and not be as active as I once was on either forum.
But now, I have learned that the unforgivable has happened. The shenanigans have boiled over and someone that I respect to the utmost has decided it is time to leave. As some of you may already know, long time member and likely one of the most valuable members this line of motorcycles has ever seen, Fred Harmon, has decided to call it quits. His internet and physical presence, and value, will be gone to all of us. The rhetoric, the backstabbing, the insults, the criticism, and lack of support from those in charge has lead him to say it is no longer worth it. Fred dedicated his entire adult life, as an engineer, to making things better. His generosity lead him to devote much of his time and money into helping us make our Connies better, and helped many of us save thousands of dollars in showing us how to perform complicated maintenance procedures on our own.
It's all I can do at this point to not go off on a profanity laced tirade, partly because it wouldn't make it to print any way. But to those in the leadership positions at "the Other forum", F#&K YOU. You have allowed good members to get so frustrated with your inept manner of organization and leadership, that they have left one of the most technically valuable forums on the internet. Each one of you should be absolutely ashamed at your high school level cliques and petty devisiveness. It is beyond comprehension how a few immature asshats can be allowed to chase off well established and valuable members. Even the hardest of stones can be worn down to nothing, given enough time. If you are one of those that contributed to this outcome, then F#& YOU, too. The sharing of knowledge is one of our most valuable resources as humans, and stupid bitches like you have ruined a perfectly good thing.
I have taken some time to calm down prior to writing this, as my original paragraphs were unpleasant. As our bikes get more technologically complicated, we can all benefit from the MANY amazing members like Fred, who have shared so much with us, with nothing asked in return. My '08 was the most advanced bike I'd ever owned, and thus equally as complicated. Guys like Fred saved me untold money and time in diving in and getting to task. Think about this fact: motorcycles will only get more advanced and complicated. We are now even closer to facing these technical challenges on our own.
Fred, if you ever read this, you have my depth of gratitude for what you have done for us. It saddens me to no end that certain individuals could not, or would not, be restrained to prevent the damage they have caused. I beg you to reconsider, but I do not blame you for your decision.
It matters not to me if you disagree. Some people just have a hard time with facts.
-
Brian, unless they've changed in the last year or so, I was unable to post as a non paying member. My login was terminated (held hostage?) and the only remedy was paying the membership dues. Perhaps they have opened it back up. I rarely visit that site, so I'm not likely to sign back up, regardless.
I don't pick sides either, but am fully aware of much of the years-long drama that has occurred between differing groups. I have always tried to ignore the nonsense and stick to the bikes (not always successful). For the most part, it was manageable, but every year seemed to get worse. I just feel sorry for all the future members that will have one less amazing source of help because of this nonsense. It's just frustrating, and now Fred is gone.
-
I also am indebted to Fred and his efforts to assist us in our C14 relationship. He has contributed very much.
He may someday go back as Brian did. Perhaps he will return here. Time will tell.
I slightly disagree about the responsibility of those in charge to this development, although I do have other bones to pick with the COG forum administration.
There certainly can be a pack mentality over there occasionally where folks can pile on excessively with anyone that differs with one of their icon members. I don't think that was
the case with Fred. I await to see what happens on this forum which Fred Harmon left years ago. I say that because the major reason (Man of Blues, IMO) Fred left COG, is also present on this
forum.
As for you being expelled, as far as I know, despite some of us lobbying for it to happen (not you being expelled :), but rather dues members getting a better ride in the forum)
the forum rules are still the same...except...non dues members aka "forum only members" must re-register once a year.
I'm fairly certain that if you want to re-register over there then you can tell them exactly how you feel and what you think of them.
Getting back to Fred leaving, it's definitely a loss for the COG forum and unless Brian steps in to fill the gap, I expect large outbreaks of unintentional mis-information spreading through the COG
forum. But be rest assured, everyone will be reminded of whom the previous COG tech editor was prior to Fred, ad nauseam. :pukeface:
-
I am not a paid member and I can post freely on the Concours Owners Group forum.
As for moderators or how the forum is run, it seems that a certain antagonist over there now has to have his posts approved by a moderator before they're viewed by the public. Small steps, but progress being made? I'm sure too that the BOD has contacted Fred. There's a lot that will go on behind the scenes that we'll never be privy to. So I'm not giving up on that forum just yet.
-
Yeah, I hear ya' Tom. As you probably know, I too left that forum back in '14 and did not re-join COG. But a few months back, I 'stopped in' to say hello to some old friends (I hoped) and also could not get in. But after asking, I was told that they had merely re- set the software and I, and anyone else, was welcome as always, as a forum- only 'member'. They re-activated my old log- in data and sure enough, I got right in. I did say hello and got a pretty nice welcome from some old friends. Of course I have no idea what transpired with your account, just passing along the info. that COG, as a group, has not changed their policy of allowing non- members basically full participation in the forum.
But it is nice to stop in, read a couple of threads, post rarely but once in a while when I think I can actually be of some help and not get into any politics, personal [not polite] exchanges and move on. So maybe Fred will drop back in, maybe not. ??
Brian
Brian, unless they've changed in the last year or so, I was unable to post as a non paying member. My login was terminated (held hostage?) and the only remedy was paying the membership dues. Perhaps they have opened it back up. I rarely visit that site, so I'm not likely to sign back up, regardless.
I don't pick sides either, but am fully aware of much of the years-long drama that has occurred between differing groups. I have always tried to ignore the nonsense and stick to the bikes (not always successful). For the most part, it was manageable, but every year seemed to get worse. I just feel sorry for all the future members that will have one less amazing source of help because of this nonsense. It's just frustrating, and now Fred is gone.
-
No problems with you venting Tom, even if it's about us.. ;)
-
I could be remembering wrong, but back in late 2010 when I started researching possibly buying a Concours, I discovered both the previous incarnation of this forum and the COG forum. I don't think I could post to the COG forum without being a paid "member" or perhaps it was some very restricted status or something which is why chose THIS forum and joined it, instead. Nothing against COG, but at the time, I wasn't going to join a paid group just so I could fully participate in some research and discussion about a bike I didn't even own :)
-
MoB should have been put in "time out" for a few weeks before it got to this point, he comes across as one condescending jackass. I've seen people behave this way on other boards and when it's handled promptly they usually correct the behavior, continue to act the same and they go away.
-
Let's kinda keep the 'jackass' comments to a minimum. I prefer 'characters' over here. And yes, he is a character. Somewhat blunt, to the point, and opinionated. Maybe a curmudgeon as well but he's our curmudgeon, so let's keep the name calling out of this thread please.
-
Let's kinda keep the 'jackass' comments to a minimum. I prefer 'characters' over here. And yes, he is a character. Somewhat blunt, to the point, and opinionated. Maybe a curmudgeon as well but he's our curmudgeon, so let's keep the name calling out of this thread please.
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.
-
Honestly, I do not believe it would need to be thrown to the arena here; the moderators would deal with it in a timely, fair, [as gentle as possible] fashion but they would also make it effective. They have many tools at their disposal, one of which I have seen used with very good success is a temporary lock on a thread that is later (days, a week) removed with the warning that it will be re- locked if the previous behavior is continued. But Jim has already started the moderating procedure in the post immediately before yours (two posts back). He was nice, tactful, non- threatening but he also put forth the message that he is watching and there are limits. Utterly perfect moderation IMO. Jim is really quite good at moderating us I think.
Brian
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.
-
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.
How about if we wield the banhammer and sword if it turns into a bitchfest here? As Jim has commented keep the verbiage civil and all is good...
Knew sooner or later the tudes would boil over the pot and catch the entire stove on fire... I sensed it and left back around the time of the great demise...
-
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.
Not to worry. It won't. We've got two mods looking at it now....and I'm the nice guy. :rotflmao:
-
What ???? No party in the Arena? :(
-
Not yet >:( :rotflmao: . Patience Grasshopper.
Back on track, I'd love to see Fred back here. In fact, I'd like to see more of the old 'faces' that migrated over to the other side and haven't been back. They are always welcome as long as they come back with a sense of humor.
-
I still have a set of Fred's CD's but I don't even own a C14 anymore.
-
Not yet >:( :rotflmao: . Patience Grasshopper.
Back on track, I'd love to see Fred back here. In fact, I'd like to see more of the old 'faces' that migrated over to the other side and haven't been back. They are always welcome as long as they come back with a sense of humor.
Master Po, I hear your call.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mhNy2IhGkNs/U8OKHZNhhZI/AAAAAAAACfg/tcmLPJ8b47o/s1600/KLUKE-anniv.jpg)
gr33nmAn ;D
-
Welcome to the forum.
-
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.
-
he he he ... newbie ;)
-
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.
Yeah, we had a slight problem in early 2011 and the entire forum was lost :) Welcome [back]
-
Good to see you 'over here' also, Craig.
As you know, I also have been again perusing 'over there' since.... what, the summer? I read often but do not post too much, just really neutral things that I really thing may be of some use to someone. So it is kinda' nice testing both of the waters because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum). So anyway, it is nice to see old wounds healing, or at least not bleeding anymore :-) It is like that greatest of all medical news from the Doctor: "It is OK, they make a creme for that now.".
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Brian
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.
-
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.
:stirpot: :stirpot: :hitfan: :hitfan: :nuts:
SO, I have to ask, just what the intent was for coming back in here?
To monitor?
:hitfan: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
-
because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum).
I suspect you might be right about dual citizenship by quite a few people. I will say that although I have read maybe 3 threads on COG over the last 7 years, I have never posted there. Again, not because I have anything against COG, but I was here first and I don't have the time/energy/motivation to be in two forums. I am lazy enough that this place is enough work to digest! :)
-
SO, I have to ask, just what the intent was for coming back in here? To monitor?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3167.Joseph_Heller (https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3167.Joseph_Heller)
-
Good to see you 'over here' also, Craig.
As you know, I also have been again perusing 'over there' since.... what, the summer? I read often but do not post too much, just really neutral things that I really thing may be of some use to someone. So it is kinda' nice testing both of the waters because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum). So anyway, it is nice to see old wounds healing, or at least not bleeding anymore :-) It is like that greatest of all medical news from the Doctor: "It is OK, they make a creme for that now.".
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Brian
Yes, schmear it on liberally!
I have been a member here since 2002, but just wanted to drop by because of Master Po's clarion call!
I have posted here on and off over the years and have no ulterior motives, I respect the clarity this forum offers.
All the best to Kirby and maybe I will get see him some day!
Craig
-
I still have a set of Fred's CD's but I don't even own a C14 anymore.
I think I sold mine awhile back...and I still own a C14 but it's on the way out.....eventually.
-
The way I see it is that there is a world of difference between an Owners Club that has a Web Presence (which is what tto my eyes COG appears to be) and a Web forum that occasionally has a real world presence (ie sites such as this).
Now personally I've not a big fan of the former (regardless of who it is, not singling any specific group out here) as my experience in the past s that they are normally overly anally retentive about everything.
Generally speaking the latter tend to be more easy going and less up their own arses.
Oh and then of course there are the Facebok only groups where someone has set themselves up as God but that's a different story ;)
How I miss the usenet days
-
The way I see it is that there is a world of difference between an Owners Club that has a Web Presence (which is what tto my eyes COG appears to be) and a Web forum that occasionally has a real world presence (ie sites such as this).
Now personally I've not a big fan of the former (regardless of who it is, not singling any specific group out here) as my experience in the past s that they are normally overly anally retentive about everything.
Generally speaking the latter tend to be more easy going and less up their own arses.
Oh and then of course there are the Facebok only groups where someone has set themselves up as God but that's a different story ;)
How I miss the usenet days
I kind of get what you are saying, but more so the underlying issue with peoples perception is very shallow and limited.. thus a major cause and effect..
Take for instance your case; you show as being here on this forum for 11 months ( I say this not in a berating or disrespectful, just as a time reference). This limits your perception somewhat, unless you go back and read the last 6 years+ of this sites composition. Now, couple that with the fact you probably have no idea why there are "2 Forums", how they all came about, and the history behind them.. this exacerbates both what happens here, and on the COG forum, and the propensity of many of the responses "short term / recently joined" people have, with regard to history. This site, historically, was the ORIGINATING forum, established much further back than the 6 years new folks see as it's "age", and utilized by everyone until COG decided they wanted to add features for monetary transactions to accomplish Club business, and to have "full control" of this website, that was prior, and still operated, by an individual on his own budget...
I think I speak for all of us here, reading this, that we thank him for his tenacity, and persistence in the scheme of things.... he stood fast.
so, with this said, someone who places the blame for his own choices of jumping off a bridge, on someone else, when the person has parted ties with this forum completely (i.e. there is no content here from them at all, assisting folks since the "great divide"), it seems kind of an inappropriate venue for complaint, and the further spread of hateful commentary.
-
Thanks for letting me vent, as I feel somewhat better. Days later, however, I'm still shaking my head at this ridiculous nonsense. I think, as a whole, the internet has really brought out the worst in human behavior. In a good vs. evil (metaphorically) struggle, this is one example in a million of the bad chasing off the good. I just can't imagine the hurt that Fred feels, having dedicated so much to the concours collective, only to be run off by unrestrained idiocracy.
-
Text communication, by nature, is often terse and mis-interpreted. It is the nature of the beast. With practice, this is usually easy to overcome by wording carefully, providing more detail, adding emoticons, and proof-reading. We need to not assume the worst and jump to conclusions that something is an attack or was meant to be mean. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt is a good practice.
But another problem is that some people really are just not polite, civil, or kind on forums, especially when posting "anonymously" or semi-anonymously. I am not quite sure why that is- to me, people are people, regardless of whether I am sitting in front of them in person, or behind a computer.... regardless of whether I know them or not... regardless of if I post with a real identify or a pseudonym. I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. But not everyone is like that- on forums or even in person.
Anyway, those two things together can, unfortunately, cause havoc on forums.
Although we have had some conflicts and a few meltdowns on zggtr.org, overall, it is one of the best forums I have ever seen.... and I have been on a lot of forums over the last zillion years.
-
ACtually I have a pretty good idea of the history especially given one of the sticky links on here somewhere ;)
Bloody Politics
Anyways stayng on specifics it doesn't matter which first the chicken or the egg, the result is still something to eat :)
I kind of get what you are saying, but more so the underlying issue with peoples perception is very shallow and limited.. thus a major cause and effect..
Take for instance your case; you show as being here on this forum for 11 months ( I say this not in a berating or disrespectful, just as a time reference). This limits your perception somewhat, unless you go back and read the last 6 years+ of this sites composition. Now, couple that with the fact you probably have no idea why there are "2 Forums", how they all came about, and the history behind them.. this exacerbates both what happens here, and on the COG forum, and the propensity of many of the responses "short term / recently joined" people have, with regard to history. This site, historically, was the ORIGINATING forum, established much further back than the 6 years new folks see as it's "age", and utilized by everyone until COG decided they wanted to add features for monetary transactions to accomplish Club business, and to have "full control" of this website, that was prior, and still operated, by an individual on his own budget...
I think I speak for all of us here, reading this, that we thank him for his tenacity, and persistence in the scheme of things.... he stood fast.
so, with this said, someone who places the blame for his own choices of jumping off a bridge, on someone else, when the person has parted ties with this forum completely (i.e. there is no content here from them at all, assisting folks since the "great divide"), it seems kind of an inappropriate venue for complaint, and the further spread of hateful commentary.
-
Yeah, that is not it. You have discovered a different conflict :o
The conflict between Rich (Man of Blues) and Fred really is NOT between Rich and Fred, it just seems that way, even to them probably. But the root cause goes further back and only applies to one of them. And that cause left a raw, bloody and open sore in one of their psyches. The other one came along and it started off with the second one simply occupying a spot the first was <sort of> driven out of. And so the friction began. Really, as I see it, this is nothing more than a perfectly predictable conflict arising out of an initial situation and exacerbated by the personalities involved (not saying anyone is 'bad', just that each has personality facets that are sensitive to this kind of friction). Once the game was in motion, it was merely a matter of time IMO. Sort of like add water, bring to a boil, and you have soup.
There are very predictable human (and maybe even mammal) behaviors that are entirely predictable even though we seem to want to be surprised every single time. For example: 10 people work in a dept, with one [manager, leader, whatever the title] and nine [workers, underlings, again whatever term you like]. For whatever reason, and regardless of any fault or the lack thereof, the lead person is put into the batch of workers, and another worker is selected to be the manager. Maybe after a medical leave of absence, for example. Everyone says they are fine with the arrangement but that is almost certainly a fib on at least one person's part: that person, the one who was demoted, resents it and begins 'sniping' at the new manager, as well as stirring up malice among the rest of the workers. This either continues on an open- ended path, or deteriorates until someone or both parties are forced to leave (forced from outside, or internal emotions, makes no difference). All of which was perfectly predictable. What is amazing about it is that we have seen this for 100,000 years and yet every-time it comes up, we are again surprised because others surrounding the situation think they have done a great job of smoothing things over. But we cannot suppress human (maybe mammal) emotions, and predictable reactions.
There are other conflicts all over the world as well as in forums. Sometimes they are subtle, sometimes obvious. It has always been this way and will always be so IMO.
Further changes will follow, along with conflicting interests and motives mixed in, just to make it fun (that was a sarcastic joke but really the emotion is sadness). Some people want certain things and will be drive to try to get them; some will try to do 'the right thing', others will be driven by ego, and some will be driven by profit. And so it goes, as it has since man settled in the fertile triangle (Easy Boys, not THAT fertile triangle!).
As far as the chicken and the egg thing, sometimes you can even get a song out of it; 'Mother and Child Reunion' was inspired by a chicken and egg dish served at a diner.
Brian
ACtually I have a pretty good idea of the history especially given one of the sticky links on here somewhere ;)
Bloody Politics
Anyways stayng on specifics it doesn't matter which first the chicken or the egg, the result is still something to eat :)
-
Brian,
I was not forced out of my position, I simply resigned as my real paying job was demanding me to work extreme hours, sometimes as much as 80 per week, this combined with my desire to keep my family life functioning, and have a few moments of enjoyment riding places without working on bikes for someone, made me choose.
as for my attitude towards my replacement, I fully supported him from the start, and made no disparaging commentary about their tech, I even considered to assist in his transition and acclimation for a few years.
We differed on some subjects/aspects of tech, but any commentary was done with regard to factual correctness of the tech questions asked.
The only issue I ever had, was the sale of technical advice, as I found it a conflict of interest, based on COG's specific rules. I finally gave up beating this dead horse to the previous Director, as he had no desire to control, or acknowledge the issue, even tho I kept firm in my opinion.
As this forum has absolutely no contributions whatsoever by the other (by his choice as a result of being P/C after the great split), so because of its timeline, there is nothing that can be said about me "forcing anything" here.
And as the other forum has the same timeline, I have actually read back thru every post where I and the other posted in as a combination, and still can't find the mysterious "facts" people have that coincide with the accusations spewed forth, after I simply posted a rule that was obliviously disregarded... which followed up by me defending my post. Simply because someone accuses, it must be true, correct? not.
-
Well, we are down to semantics. Yes, I agree, you were not forced out of that position but there was an incident that rather made it far more likely you would resign.
But none of that was my point: my point was, and is, that certain things result in certain behavior in any species. Sure, blame can be assigned, but the underlying cause is usually an incident or incidents that rub one's fur the wrong way and things go downhill after that. So again, I am merely saying that it is not the words said on any particular date that is really the cause, it is the thing(s) that happened before, in some cases, long before, that are the real problem.
And I have not accused anyone of misbehaving or even assigned any blame at all whatsoever. Hey, it spun out the way it did and here we are; people getting angry at either one of the group (and it was more than two people as it almost always is, though some contribute to the situation more than others) does no good IMO and merely perpetuates the old 'bad blood' and causes new 'bad blood'.
And I also agree about the 'dogpile' on the forum. But then again, you violated one of the great truths of some forums: 'All members are equal but GOOROO members are FAR, FAR more equal than anyone else. Further, said GOOROOs must not be questioned, corrected, or challenged in any way, regardless of the correctness of those questions, corrections or challenges, because such illustrious beings are far above any such behavior, especially by another mere mortal'. So you stepped on a landmine, regardless of your intentions or even correctness, and that one happened to go off. At least you did not step on the BIG landmine 'cause there would be a crowd with pitchforks and torches outside where you live and they would have carried you off by now. ::) :o :rotflmao:
But really, everyone will live and everyone will carry on with their lives. Nothing horrible happened or will result. Fred had not been participating much on the forum anyway as far as I could tell, though I do not get the Concourier and so do not know if he was still writing technical articles or not. But COG will carry on, it sounds like Fred is active in the Goldwing community and will spend more time there perhaps. It looks like you will spend some time in the proverbial 'corner' but that too will probably blow over. And besides all that, COG suffered a tremendous loss, in my opinion, when they lost Kirby but they see to have weathered that one OK so this one should be a piece 'o cake.
I really do wish the best to all involved and hope the anger and annoyance fade quickly.
Brian
Brian,
I was not forced out of my position, I simply resigned as my real paying job was demanding me to work extreme hours, sometimes as much as 80 per week, this combined with my desire to keep my family life functioning, and have a few moments of enjoyment riding places without working on bikes for someone, made me choose.
as for my attitude towards my replacement, I fully supported him from the start, and made no disparaging commentary about their tech, I even considered to assist in his transition and acclimation for a few years.
We differed on some subjects/aspects of tech, but any commentary was done with regard to factual correctness of the tech questions asked.
The only issue I ever had, was the sale of technical advice, as I found it a conflict of interest, based on COG's specific rules. I finally gave up beating this dead horse to the previous Director, as he had no desire to control, or acknowledge the issue, even tho I kept firm in my opinion.
As this forum has absolutely no contributions whatsoever by the other (by his choice as a result of being P/C after the great split), so because of its timeline, there is nothing that can be said about me "forcing anything" here.
And as the other forum has the same timeline, I have actually read back thru every post where I and the other posted in as a combination, and still can't find the mysterious "facts" people have that coincide with the accusations spewed forth, after I simply posted a rule that was obliviously disregarded... which followed up by me defending my post. Simply because someone accuses, it must be true, correct? not.
-
It is at moments like this I am reminded of Sir Humphrey Applebys words from 1987
It is characteristic of all committee discussions and decisions that every member has a vivid recollection of them and that every member’s recollection of them differs violently from every other member’s recollection. Consequently, we accept the convention that the official decisions are those and only those which have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, from which it emerges with an elegant inevitability that any decision which has been officially reached will have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials and any decision which is not recorded in the minutes has not been officially reached even if one or more members believe they can recollect it, so in this particular case, if the decision had been officially reached it would have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, and it isn’t so it wasn’t.
-
I suggest a Brexit from this thread...... :popcorn:
-
No
-
+1
-
what are we saying NO too :)
-
Here's my take on it.
Q: what are we saying NO too :)
A:I suggest a Brexit from this thread...... :popcorn:
-
No reason to be mad a the Brits...haven't had to have a Brexit around here since what?...1812?
-
I'm suggesting a Brexit for the pompous Brit being quoted in the thread. Bike ridin' brits can stay. (only if they be ridin' the C14.....)
-
They can ride anything they want and be here as long as I'm around.
what are we saying NO too :)
Yes.
-
+1
How about shipping non-C14 ridin' moderators across the Pond?
-
I'm suggesting a Brexit for the pompous Brit being quoted in the thread. Bike ridin' brits can stay. (only if they be ridin' the C14.....)
Are you referring to Sir Humphrey ?
(FYI he is a fictional character from a British Political Comedy series called "Yes Minster" then "Yes Prime Minister" from the 80's, basic premise being that Civil Servants , of whom Sir H is an example, are the ones who really wield power. Margaret Thatcher loved it and even appeared in a Special)
-
+1
How about shipping non-C14 ridin' moderators across the Pond?
No :rotflmao: