Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: just gone on September 22, 2017, 01:13:47 PM
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Well the info is out, apparently 2018's Metalic Carbon Gray (https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2018-Concours-14-ABS) is essentially black. Looking at some of the photos...(which maybe are just retouched from earlier years)..it almost looks as though they've converted the front turn signals to running lights?
Look at the front right side turn signal below.
(https://content.kawasaki.com/content/uploads/products/7739/5u2odtzv.ice.jpg) (https://content.kawasaki.com/content/uploads/products/7739/5u2odtzv.ice.jpg)
Once again my hopes were dashed that we might get a dark metallic green version, oh well there is always maybe next year.
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Well the info is out, apparently 2018's Metalic Carbon Gray (https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2018-Concours-14-ABS) is essentially black.
Well, I guess that dashes the hope for a gen 3 Concours after 10 years of the C14! Long live year 11! I suppose that is good and bad. But only black? Blech.
Looking at some of the photos...(which maybe are just retouched from earlier years)..it almost looks as though they've converted the front turn signals to running lights? Look at the front right side turn signal below.
Interesting. I see what you see- it looks kinda like running lights, maybe. But if they did it with dim, dual-filament incandescent, I will have to throw a big "meh" at it :) Don't get me wrong, you know I am a HUGE advocate of converting the front turn signals to running lights for safety. Guess we will have to wait and see. Seems like a surprising thing to do, especially now.
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All reactions to things such as this depend entirely on your point of view but personally, I am happy they are still making the bike. You sound like you were looking for wider possibilities while I was fearing they would drop the model entirely. Seriously.
Brian
Well, I guess that dashes the hope for a gen 3 Concours after 10 years of the C14! Long live year 11! I suppose that is good and bad. But only black? Blech.
<snip>
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No mention of the 2018 on official sites for Canada or Europe yet. I suspect they are just being slow to update the other sites. I also suspect the same mono/non-color. Unable to find a single "peep" or word about the 2018 anywhere, other than it is shown on the Kawasaki USA site. Odd.
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All reactions to things such as this depend entirely on your point of view but personally, I am happy they are still making the bike. You sound like you were looking for wider possibilities while I was fearing they would drop the model entirely. Seriously.
Actually, like you, I was also worried they were going to drop the Concours, mostly because we should have heard rumors about a redesign by now, and it is a perfect decade mark. Having heard nothing at ALL was troubling. So that is the reason it is "good news". Of course, we are all hoping that they will also consider updating the Concours to keep it competitive with the few other true sport tourers out there. I think it is still the top dog (when everything is considered), but the gap was seriously narrowed with the FJR when Yamaha did their last refresh in 2013 (their "gen 3" version) and then their revision for 2016 which FINALLY brought a 6 speed transmission, slipper clutch, and they even added LED lighting.
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My reasoning for the concern is that the bike has been a bit slow- selling since day one, and there are brand new, 2013 models out there. For whatever reason(s), the bike does not sell well, new or used, and coupled with the fact that it is a much more expensive bike to manufacture than either the sport bikes or the cruisers, and because of that I believe it is less profitable (that is my belief, I have absolutely no data to back that up before someone asks) than most of Kawasaki's other products, it would be the stand- out model to drop.
As far as an update, my own opinion is that it really does not need one. It is still 'top dog' in my opinion and any deficiencies that it may have such as lacking cruise control, etc., can be readily and easily addressed after purchase. Compare that to, say, increasing the bike's power and it becomes a proverbial walk in the park. The basic bike is still fantastic IMO and out runs all others in the class both as far as price / performance goes as well as pure standing; I still think it is the best sport tourer available.
I would LOVE to see the sales numbers of the C-14 and the FJR, to gain a better idea if the bike is really selling slowly or if all sport tourers are selling slowly.
Brian
Actually, like you, I was also worried they were going to drop the Concours, mostly because we should have heard rumors about a redesign by now, and it is a perfect decade mark. Having heard nothing at ALL was troubling. So that is the reason it is "good news". Of course, we are all hoping that they will also consider updating the Concours to keep it competitive with the few other true sport tourers out there. I think it is still the top dog (when everything is considered), but the gap was seriously narrowed with the FJR when Yamaha did their last refresh in 2013 (their "gen 3" version) and then their revision for 2016 which FINALLY brought a 6 speed transmission, slipper clutch, and they even added LED lighting.
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The C14 isn't even a teenager..... The C10 was around for 21 model years. My 2000 w/ 107K on it is hardly broken in...
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The C14 isn't even a teenager..... The C10 was around for 21 model years. My 2000 w/ 107K on it is hardly broken in...
:) Well, that is true. But look at cars, they rarely last more than 6 years without a full or major redesign. Sure, they might still call it a "Maxima" or "Accord", but it is usually new frame/body, often with major changes to the power train, and lots of different features and changes. Things move more slowly in the motorcycle world but as an example, the ZX14 was completely overhauled after just 6 years (becoming the ZX14R) and the ZRX11 after just 5 (as the ZRX12, which sold in the US for another 5 years, then dropped world-wide after 6). Look at the Z1000 for a dizzying array of major overhauls about every 3 to 4 years.
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That depends entirely on what you consider a 'major or full redesign'. Lee Iacoca said that by 1960 it was far too expensive for any automaker to introduce a new planform in much less than a decade, and often not that often. And that is for one model for the entire company. Which, by the way, is why the Mustang was build on a Falcon planform, Ford simply could not justify spending the money in attempting to manufacturing a 'kid's car' and seeing if it sold well.
So the major components on the C-14 are in the same boat; the monocoque frame is a large casting and expensive to tool up to produce. It is not likely to change. Hey, even the fuel tank is the one that was already in existence for the ZX when the C-14 was new.... lots of people wonder why it is not larger, and think it should be bigger but again, for the manufacturer to tool up to make a different fuel tank would be expensive, and then they would have to maintain two different lines to manufacture the two fuel tanks, one for the ZX line and one for the Concours. Assuming of course that ZX buyers do not want an 8 gallon tank on that big sport bike. So a bigger tank has to cause a bigger price- tag and the bike is facing sales pressure already; a significant drop- off in sales probably would sound the end of manufacturer.
This is also the reason why Honda has not updated their sport- tourer, they just do not sell enough of them to warrant a major re-work of the model. Sure the sales would increase but the real question is would they increase enough to make building the new bike profitable, after design and tooling costs are factored in.
The automotive market is measured in the dozens of million units per year, and MANY parts are shared between vehicles. The motorcycle market is but a small fraction of that and few parts are shared. That is why motorcycles get a small portion of relatively old automotive technology, because they cannot possibly ever make it worthwhile and so must 'mooch' off of automotive technology.
Brian
:) Well, that is true. But look at cars, they rarely last more than 6 years without a full or major redesign. Sure, they might still call it a "Maxima" or "Accord", but it is usually new frame/body, often with major changes to the power train, and lots of different features and changes. Things move more slowly in the motorcycle world but as an example, the ZX14 was completely overhauled after just 6 years (becoming the ZX14R) and the ZRX11 after just 5 (as the ZRX12, which sold in the US for another 5 years, then dropped world-wide after 6). Look at the Z1000 for a dizzying array of major overhauls about every 3 to 4 years.
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Mother Kaw sent out a team and upgraded all of the LEO bikes built by third parties. Rumor at that time was that they would gather it in to Mother Kaw and come out with a new LEO bike. Maybe the black is a step in that direction? Every LEO Motor Officer is hopeful!
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Comparison of GTR v FJR for the UK
NB vehicles in the UK are licensed(Road Taxed) annually. Ok its not actually sales figures but gives you an idea over this side of the pond of how "rare" the GTR is in comparison
http://sharetheexperience.co.uk/Images/GTR/comparison.jpg (http://sharetheexperience.co.uk/Images/GTR/comparison.jpg)
Data from https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ (https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/) which gets its underlying data from the DVLA.
Model Names are as declared on the vehicles initial registration document
My reasoning for the concern is that the bike has been a bit slow- selling since day one, and there are brand new, 2013 models out there. For whatever reason(s), the bike does not sell well, new or used, and coupled with the fact that it is a much more expensive bike to manufacture than either the sport bikes or the cruisers, and because of that I believe it is less profitable (that is my belief, I have absolutely no data to back that up before someone asks) than most of Kawasaki's other products, it would be the stand- out model to drop.
As far as an update, my own opinion is that it really does not need one. It is still 'top dog' in my opinion and any deficiencies that it may have such as lacking cruise control, etc., can be readily and easily addressed after purchase. Compare that to, say, increasing the bike's power and it becomes a proverbial walk in the park. The basic bike is still fantastic IMO and out runs all others in the class both as far as price / performance goes as well as pure standing; I still think it is the best sport tourer available.
I would LOVE to see the sales numbers of the C-14 and the FJR, to gain a better idea if the bike is really selling slowly or if all sport tourers are selling slowly.
Brian
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Yeah, that data supports my own thoughts- the C-14 is selling sluggishly. Although there does seem to be a sharp drop- off in Feejer sales when the C-14 appears in the '08 model year. Still, a small number of vehicles overall. That small amount of data does seem to show a general trend of slow for both bikes about the time the C-14 was introduced though, so maybe there are other forces at work rather than just model preference? Perhaps the whole sport- tourer market, or even the entire motorcycle market slid quite a bit around that time due to a large economic downturn in general and having absolutely nothing to do with the C-14 or even sport tourers generally?
Brian
Comparison of GTR v FJR for the UK
NB vehicles in the UK are licensed(Road Taxed) annually. Ok its not actually sales figures but gives you an idea over this side of the pond of how "rare" the GTR is in comparison
http://sharetheexperience.co.uk/Images/GTR/comparison.jpg (http://sharetheexperience.co.uk/Images/GTR/comparison.jpg)
Data from https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ (https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/) which gets its underlying data from the DVLA.
Model Names are as declared on the vehicles initial registration document
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Indian market is up...17% so far this year. HD's sales are down and losing market share.... I wonder to whom? So not all MC sales are languishing. Kawkers has basically shot themselves in the feet by only changing colors and making few minor improvements. I might have stayed on my C14 if something had come out interesting but it didn't and I didn't.
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Indian is winning races, too. Win on Sunday and sell on Monday.
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Yep, they may have sold more bikes had they updated with significant changes. But those changes would not be free so there are two questions that need to be answered: 1) how much more, if any at all, will the customer pay for the bike with these changes and 2) how many will be sold as a direct result of those changes. My guess is that the answer to those questions is 1) not much, if any at all and 2) not nearly enough.
It is easy for us as customers to demand things and say that we would buy XXX if they only added YYY and improved ZZZ and so forth. But it is another thing entirely to actually plunk money down on the proverbial table. And no manufacturer can spend imaginary money. ;)
Think of it this way: perhaps your boss or the people directly responsible for your compensation might say 'Gee, it would be worth an extra $$$ if Jim learned how to take care of this or that, and also if he was [faster, spent longer on the job, etc., etc.]. But at the end of the quarter or year, do you really think if you do work harder anyone is going to shovel money at you? Of course I am not singling you out here, just making an example.... we are all, always in the same boat in this regard.
And in all honesty, I doubt there is anything short of a 100 pound gold bar that Kawasaki could have put on a C-14 that would have steered you or virtually anyone away from a twin cylinder, air cooled cruiser and onto a water cooled, in-line four sport touring bike. Again, lots of us say things like that but when it comes time to actually plunk money down on the table, not so much.
When the C-14 first came out, I went to my local dealer and asked about buying one. I was told that they expected one in any day (literally) but it was already sold. And then they would be getting 2 per month and the next four were also spoken for so the soonest I could have one would be in three months, provided Kawasaki actually delivered on schedule. So I went to another dealer and bought the one he had on the floor. This was 25 July 2007, on a Wednesday. The following Saturday, I rode my new, shiny bike to the first dealer and found a brand new C-14 on the floor. The owner saw me come in and RAN over to me to tell me he had a C-14 in stock and was ready to deal..... and I pointed to mine out in his parking lot. Seems the first five people who "bought" C-14's did not / could not actually buy them, all backed out and all wanted their deposits back. Now these people actually put some money down ($500), so imagine how many he could have "sold" had he just taken verbal orders for them in advance?
I suspect Kawasaki has thought long and hard (Easy Boys!) about this, has done studies, and devotes considerable time and energy to trying their very best to serve up what they can actually sell. And they have a long history to look back on and temper any questionnaire results with a dose of reality to slow them down before doing something foolish.
Brian
Indian market is up...17% so far this year. HD's sales are down and losing market share.... I wonder to whom? So not all MC sales are languishing. Kawkers has basically shot themselves in the feet by only changing colors and making few minor improvements. I might have stayed on my C14 if something had come out interesting but it didn't and I didn't.
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Indian market is up...17% so far this year. HD's sales are down and losing market share.... I wonder to whom? So not all MC sales are languishing. Kawkers has basically shot themselves in the feet by only changing colors and making few minor improvements. I might have stayed on my C14 if something had come out interesting but it didn't and I didn't.
Well the gen2 improvements were significant and attractive, but probably not attractive enough to entice jumping from a gen 1.... UNLESS you just love the platform and want to to a brand new bike to start the love affair all over again and keep what you like and move most of the farkles, etc. Quite a few people have done that. Those with a 2008 can warp to an 11-year newer without any risk or uncertainty.
But it is disappointing they hadn't been interested in a real/significant gen3 kinda concept- with cruise, LED lights, fancier dash, re-base on the zzr14 engine instead of zr14, etc.
I will point out that although there is no 2018 C14 in EU, there is in other markets, including USA/CA, so we still don't really know if the platform is dead or not. Most likely it is, but who knows for sure...
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I suspect Kawasaki has thought long and hard (Easy Boys!) about this, has done studies, and devotes considerable time and energy to trying their very best to serve up what they can actually sell. And they have a long history to look back on and temper any questionnaire results with a dose of reality to slow them down before doing something foolish.
I wonder how many of *US* they have asked such questions. Not me, or I would have told them point-blank that I don't care what they do to a "replacement" for the C14, if it is not shaft drive, it destroys most of my interest. Although I know I don't speak for everyone, I doubt I am alone, either. If they don't at least appreciate/comprehend that, then something is horribly wrong with their operation.
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they probs arent launching new models /changes due to their being a warehouse somewhere full of rolling frames with engines in and a stockpile of body panels somewhere else
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they probs arent launching new models /changes due to their being a warehouse somewhere full of rolling frames with engines in and a stockpile of body panels somewhere else
That was one of my thoughts, also
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they probs arent launching new models /changes due to their being a warehouse somewhere full of rolling frames with engines in and a stockpile of body panels somewhere else
NOW THAT THERE IS FUNNY... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
that ain't how motorcycles are assembled... especially at Kawasaki...
it's called "just in time" manufacturing... been that way for 30++ years..
http://youtu.be/wQesaXhL0cA (http://youtu.be/wQesaXhL0cA)
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NOW THAT THERE IS FUNNY... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
that ain't how motorcycles are assembled... especially at Kawasaki...
One might reasonably believe, however, that Kawasaki has significant stock or even overstock of expensive parts they would like to use up. The USA is probably their biggest market (especially if you throw in Canada), so it makes sense to keep making and selling, as long as it is not taking away resources from doing something else more important. Since the ZZR can pass Euro 4, the GTR could, too. So something else might be to blame in the EU, like lower-than-needed sales.
Still, I have now changed my prediction to 2018 being the last year of the C14 and with no replacement. An 11-year run, and with a 21-year run of the C10. 32 years of Concours/GTR and then poof :( I want to be wrong.
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Well the gen2 improvements were significant and attractive, but probably not attractive enough to entice jumping from a gen 1.... UNLESS you just love the platform and want to to a brand new bike to start the love affair all over again and keep what you like and move most of the farkles, etc. Quite a few people have done that. Those with a 2008 can warp to an 11-year newer without any risk or uncertainty.
But it is disappointing they hadn't been interested in a real/significant gen3 kinda concept- with cruise, LED lights, fancier dash, re-base on the zzr14 engine instead of zr14, etc.
I will point out that although there is no 2018 C14 in EU, there is in other markets, including USA/CA, so we still don't really know if the platform is dead or not. Most likely it is, but who knows for sure...
See link below to new sport tourer from Kawsaki. The Concours is done in Europe now due to Euro 4. Evidently Kawasaki has had this new sport touring bike up their sleeve and hence no big updates to the C14.
This new bike seems more orientated toward sport than the C14.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/october/kawasaki-supercharged-ninja-h2-sx/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/october/kawasaki-supercharged-ninja-h2-sx/)
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my response was directed to the "due to their being a warehouse somewhere full of rolling frames with engines in " posting... I know they have tonnage of parts, they just don't assemble them until the time is prioritized to fill active orders.
never mind, the point was missed... ::)
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my response was directed to the "due to their being a warehouse somewhere full of rolling frames with engines in " posting... I know they have tonnage of parts, they just don't assemble them until the time is prioritized to fill active orders.
never mind, the point was missed... ::)
I absolutely understand your point. And I don't disagree with you. I was simply expanding on his "they got stuff leftover" concept.
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See link below to new sport tourer from Kawsaki. The Concours is done in Europe now due to Euro 4. Evidently Kawasaki has had this new sport touring bike up their sleeve and hence no big updates to the C14.
This new bike seems more orientated toward sport than the C14.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/october/kawasaki-supercharged-ninja-h2-sx/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/october/kawasaki-supercharged-ninja-h2-sx/)
Now we are just full-circle back from another thread: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22872.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22872.0)
Summary so far based on THEIR speculation:
* Fake photo that can't be real for a lot of reasons.
* Is not a suitable replacement for the Concours for many based on their info.
* Apparently not named "GTR" or "Concours".
* If concept is even close, it means not shaft drive, so isn't a real ST.
* If short wheelbase of H2R, it won't be like the Concours experience.
* We will have to wait until Nov 8 to see what this new bike is really like.
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In my humble opinion, and being a relatively new C14 owner, a little over a year. I think if Kawasaki would just update a few things like factory cruise control, LED lights all around as well as a digital dash they would see a marked increase in sales. Come on, it's almost 2018, it's time. This would make a great bike even mo better. I don't think it would affect the base price much. I love my bike, but when its time to buy a new one these little updates would most certainly be a deal breaker for me anyway, to purchase a shiny new one.
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I very much agree with you. I said it in other threads- I would love to have seen a gen3 version with all LED lights, LED headlights and corning lights, cruise control, throttle-by-wire, alarm system, even larger multifunction display with color, and perhaps with some other little revisions here and there; but WITHOUT touching the wonderful analog dials, the great engine or transmission, or general ergonomics and style.
Alas, Kawasaki is using Euro-4 as an excuse to kill the C-14 in non-north-american markets, and I am fairly sure it will disappear completely after 2018. It will be "replaced" with a small (but fast) sport bike with luggage, short wheelbase, no shaft drive, short non-electric windscreen, no analog displays, no keyless ignition, and shorter range. Probably won't even carry the market-leading 3-year, cheaply extendable to 9-year warranty.
Sigh.
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other than US and Canada, I am not aware of any country selling the MY2018 Concours /GTR 1400... meanwhile there are plenty unsold even at huge discounted prices. Buyers market as Kawasaki will not be feeding a dead fish for long.
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Probably won't even carry the market-leading 3-year, cheaply extendable to 9-year warranty. Sigh.
No more "probably" about it, the H2SX has only a 1 year warranty.
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No more "probably" about it, the H2SX has only a 1 year warranty.
...same as ZX-14
Warranty12 Month Limited Warranty
Kawasaki Protection Plus™ (optional)12, 24, 36 or 48 months
Kawasaki is funny about warranties... check Versys 650 vs. Versys 650LT ... 1y vs. 2y . Not a typo!!
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Yes, the H2SX has everything you want in a Connie and less (less weight, less displacement) for more (50% more MSRP). Meanwhile, my dealer has four black 2016's sitting in the showroom for $11.8k at the moment; probably lower soon.
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Yes, the H2SX has everything you want in a Connie and less (less weight, less displacement) for more (50% more MSRP).
It clearly doesn't have everything *I* want in a Connie! ;) If it were the same price, I would still pick the C14. Even if it were a lower price, I would still pick the C14. Now, if you could include the things the C14 has that the H2SX lacks, I would be salivating.... even at a higher price. Make it silver, and I would lose my mind :)