Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: mccostlin on October 07, 2012, 08:02:11 PM
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evening all,
I just bought a 93 concours with 60k on it for 600 bucks. (I really traded a snowmobile I paid 600 for). I cut the springs today four inches. however when I took the forks apart the clutch side had a 3/4 deep well socket in it between the spring and the cap. the other side had nothing. I looked at the fiche and it shows spacers between the caps and springs I reassembled the forks with the four inch PVC spacer and washer at the bottom and put the springs in with no spacer between the springs and caps.
do I need to order the spacers for the top? or if anyone knows the size I could cut more PVC for the top?
I am pretty sure I need them I just wanted to make sure, I it rode after the springs were cut and it was about the same as stock.
thanks in advance, when I get it cleaned up I will post the story and the pics. I've done the valves, oil, and carbs already, she runs good. I found a bad wheel bearing in the front wheel today...so looks like i'm not done yet. I had this forum opened on my laptop on the bench to guide me. thanks to all. ive put a 1000 miles on her in two weeks so far, I just really need to get this front end sorted out. my biggest pet peeve in a bike is excessive brake dive.....
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however when I took the forks apart the clutch side had a 3/4 deep well socket in it between the spring and the cap. the other side had nothing.
:yikes:
I just did my forks, but my bike is an 06, and I don't know the differences between the fork setups. But I'm quite certain that Kawasaki didn't put a socket in there. ;D
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A 3/4" deep socket as a spacer in one side only? Now that is a new one! LOL
First off the Concours never used spacers from stock; aftermarket springs are more universal in length thus the need for spacers. Or at least I don't recall any in my 01....
Secondly both sides need to be set up reasonably close to the same as otherwise that creates binding.... If you cut the springs you should replace the cut length with a flat washer / PVC pipe / and another flat washer on top to create a stack and that stack should be placed on top of the spring not on the bottom; no real reason other than it is just easier to place on top so that is customary. Also don't over fill on oil in the tubes (less is better) as overfilling makes the ride more harsh due to less air space creating semi-hydraulic lock; 15 weight makes a good middle of the road ride. It is also easy to add an extra flat washer or two, or three etc to each side if you want to increase pre-load and raise ride height/reduce sag.
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... I just really need to get this front end sorted out. my biggest pet peeve in a bike is excessive brake dive.....
BTW If you cut the wrong end of the stock multi rate springs your ride will be even more prone to brake dive... Don't recall which end to cut as I threw my stock springs away in 02.....
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BTW If you cut the wrong end of the stock multi rate springs your ride will be even more prone to brake dive... Don't recall which end to cut as I threw my stock springs away in 02.....
Cut the close wound end off. That gets rid of the soft part of the springs. Whatever you cut off, needs to be replaced with spacers. I am pretty sure it is 3/4" i.d. PVC with an appropriate sized washer between the PVC and the top of the spring. The springs can go either way.
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note that he is working on a 93
this originally had air assist. (7 psi max)
did not have spacers stock
just a top hat shaped washer, from factory.
I'd ditch the guts and buy a set of progressives from Murph, and be done with it....
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http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1993-kawasaki-concours-zg1000a/o/m150068#sch55272 (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1993-kawasaki-concours-zg1000a/o/m150068#sch55272)
ok,
I thought they needed to be there because every oem parts site has them shown. part 92026,
but if you guys say I don't need them i wont use them....
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Take a look at Sonic springs on Murphs as well. They are straight wound, and firm up the front end better than Progressives.http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_97&products_id=123 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_97&products_id=123)
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With all things being equal that's what things need to be equal... Side to side everything needs to measure the.same. You should only need to compress the springs a small amount to install the tube caps, 1 to 2 inch max.
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1) cut the 4" off the tightly wound end, then flatten it by running it against the side of your bench grinder stone. Both springs should be the same length when done
2) after installing spring, drop a 1.25 " steel washer on top of the spring.
3) Cut a piece of 3/4" pvc so that it protrudes about 1/2" to 1" out the top of the fork, (early model) and about even with the top of the fork (late model) with the fork fully extended.
4)place the factory perforated disc on top of the spring, or in the case of the early model whatever filter / cap was stock.
5) install cap and call it "better" .
Keep in mind that oil level has alot to do with the front end function also. If you're deleting the air ride (I would, then run about the oil about 6" down from the top of the fork with the spring OUT and the fork fully compressed. HTH, Steve
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http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1993-kawasaki-concours-zg1000a/o/m150068#sch55272 (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1993-kawasaki-concours-zg1000a/o/m150068#sch55272)
ok,
I thought they needed to be there because every oem parts site has them shown. part 92026,
but if you guys say I don't need them i wont use them....
I am sorry I mislead you, I forgot that when I replaced my springs I removed the metal tubes....I installed Progressive's, and you don't use that part with them, but I did install the hat shaped washer do-dad. as there is no adjuster screw on the pre 94 forks. I did not deviate from the factory oil level though, which is checked prior to inserting the springs.
Bubba Steve, I wouldn't feel comfortable chopping the pre 94 springs, they were pretty weak to start with (even with the OEM metal spacer AND 7 lbs of air....., have you personally chopped pre 94 springs and installed the PVC spacer and verified they don't go solid??? I was under the assumption that spring chopping was only relative to the post 94 models, as they had stiffer springs to start with, and the adjuster screws....
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The 93 came with spacers in the front forks. So did my 87.
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did what steve said, they seem to be good, thanks for all the help and the federal holiday today that gave me the time to sort it out..........heading out for a 100 mile round trip ride, I will report back later this evening on how it went.
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Cutting pre or post 94 springs will help either one by getting rid of the super mushy tight wound area of the spring. Going to a full length single weight spring is even better. New progressive springs might be a little heavier wire, but still have the problematic tight wound section.
This article on the Sonic web site has more explanation:
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/straight_vs_prog_tech_article.php (http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/straight_vs_prog_tech_article.php)
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Ok, here is a question - I have two brands of springs. OEM which came with spacers about 2" long, and Progressive Suspension springs which use no spacers.
The OEM looks like a progressive type spring, with both types of coils.
I've had the Progressive brand springs in for over 15 years. Initially, I didn't have to supplement the springs with air pressure but now I do.
Should I install the OEM springs which have maybe 5 years on them, and install longer spacers, or should I cut a little off the Progressive springs and put some spacers in?
I'm tempted to go back to the OEM, which I still have for some reason in the attic, and install maybe 2.5" spacers.
Thoughts?
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just finished my ride, it is much better under braking but I will need to play with the air or oil height to smooth it out a bit, on to another issue. when I left for my ride my front brakes were dragging real bad, I just flushed all the old fluid out and put in new. the lever was solid as a rock, I would up having to open up the bleeders to free them up, any ideas as to where to start?
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..... I'm tempted to go back to the OEM, which I still have for some reason in the attic, and install maybe 2.5" spacers.
Thoughts?
Thoughts? Honestly if you can afford order a set of Sonic or Race-Tech Straight Rates Springs and toss both sets of dual rate springs in the trash....
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just finished my ride, it is much better under braking but I will need to play with the air or oil height to smooth it out a bit, on to another issue. when I left for my ride my front brakes were dragging real bad, I just flushed all the old fluid out and put in new. the lever was solid as a rock, I would up having to open up the bleeders to free them up, any ideas as to where to start?
Yup... You need to clean the calipers; best way is to take them completely apart including popping the pistons out with air pressure the dust seal and sealing ring which if your careful you should be able to reuse even though they are old. After flushing the fluid you have likely now trapped the gunk that builds up when brake fluid absorbed water behind your pistons. Also you are going to make sure that the calipers float pins are not causing binding the rotors. Sometimes you can pump the pistons out as far as possible and scrub them clean with an old toothbrush and brake cleaner and get things freed up but the best option is to take things completely apart and get them clean. Welcome to old bike maintenance 101.
You also need to make sure that the return hole in the bottom of the master cylinder reserve is not plugged as that can cause a pressure build up; gently probe the little holes in the bottom with a straightened out paper clip or sewing needle.
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I cut 4.5 inches off of my '87 and it handles great. I also switched to 15w fork oil. Below is a clip from the service manual regarding over-all spring length. Use washers to dial in the correct length so they are both the same. Make sure you put at least one washer between the spring end and the PVC spacer so it won't grind into it.