Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: Tzigane on February 12, 2015, 01:06:33 PM
-
Hi everyone,
A few years ago I owned a GTR, which ran 1:17, 1:18. A trip through Norway, relaxedly cruising along with passenger and camping gear got the bike at 1:23(!)
My current GTR however, uses quite some fuel, last tank was at 1:14, before that, 1:15. I'm not a fast driver, rarely come above the 6000 rmp, and I'm happily cruising along at 110/120 km/h.
What can I do to improve this? The carbs have been synchronised very recently. Is there more I can do with them?
-
Not a gas guzzler.
I get about 40 miles/gal. average city riding. I assume a little better on the highways.
-
My bike gets around 42 miles per US gallon, or 1 liter for 18 km (1:18). If you're only getting 1:14 (about 33 mi. per US gal) there may be something wrong.
Possible guesses:
dirty air filter
brakes dragging
pilot jet too large
needles shimmed too high
floats set too high
-
Thanks!
Looks like I'll have to inspect the carbs a bit further!
A while ago I had a leaking petcock, which overflowed the airbox. Maybe an airfilter change could help things.
I recently rebuilt the brake calipers, so we can safely rule that out.
-
gas in the airbox means stuck float/needle, look up Hydrolock here on the forum
-
gas in the airbox means stuck float/needle, look up Hydrolock here on the forum
Do this really, really soon. You are courting a bent rod situation.(a.k.a. hydrolock)
-
I checked for hydrolock. At least I think so.
The situation was as follows:
- Buy bike
- drive to my girlfriend
- pick up girlfriend, refuel because I didn;t know how much was in the tank
- get home, see the bike leaking gas.
- remove tank quickly and fear for hydrolock
- check the petcock, petcocks leaks.
- next morning, I checked the oil. Oil level was still exactly the same as it was the day before. I figured it would be higher if there was fuel going inside the cilinders,.
- start the bike, (with the tank removed), starts and runs fine.
- repair petcock
- no leaking fuel
- bike has been running fine ever since, it seems.
This was about 800km ago. I haven't owned it for very long yet, so I'm now realising it uses quite a bit of gas.
I'm not actually sure whére the fuel came from, since it was dark, and I was just frantically removing the tank to prevent any damage.
I checked the filter today, is this bad enough to install a new one?
(http://i.imgur.com/sAvz7fb.jpg)
I'll do the bent rod check. I haven't gotten around to buy a key to remove the sparkplugs yet, how wide are the hexes of the plugs?
-
18mm.....the plugs are seated quite deep, but if you take a 6 or 7 inch length of vacuum hose that will fit snugly over the porcelain portion of the plug, it will reduce your frustration level greatly getting the plugs out and back in.
-
Thanks! Great tip too about the vacuum hose!
-
Hydrolock takes TWO things to happen. A leaking petcock (1) and something causing the float needle not to seal (2). This could be worn or damaged needle or needle seats, weak needle springs, grit in the gas tank getting to the carbs, deteriorating fuel line, or any other similar thing.
As for your gas mileage, it could be that your needles aren't seating fully so they are giving you a little too much fuel when the bike is running. Or, the needles need to be adjusted to re-set the carb bowl fuel height back down. Over time from what I have seen is that the fuel height rises in the float bowls due to (I suspect) plastic floats slightly warping over years of use - It just takes a tiny bit.
You guys don't have oxygenated or alcohol added fuels do you?
The filter looks OK to me - maybe just wash it with gas and an air hose and put it back in.
-
Sometimes, simply draining the float bowls, then opening the petcock to 'prime' to flush out the needles and seat can clear debris out of the needle/seat.
I had this happen (was smelling fuel after parking the bike). I grabbed a handy container, plus a length of surgical tubing (any appropriate plastic tubing will do), attached said tubing to the nipples on the float bowls, then drained each of the four float bowls individually while flipping the petcock to prime briefly each time. Some visibile debris was in the large cup I drained the bowls into.
After doing this, gas mileage went back up and no more gas smell.
If this doesn't solve your problem, yeah it's probably time to rebuild the carbs!
BTW, I get 42 MPH on average usually (can get 45 MPH on a good day if I lay off the throttle, and don't go faster than say 65 MPH). Said mileage dropped down into the low 30s when my needles started acting up (due to debris). I've since put an inline filter between the carbs and the tank. Said filter needs to not be very restrictive, otherwise you may have fuel starvation issues.
Long term, though, you should look at Overflow tubes, to help stave off the dreaded hydrolock. You are across the pond, so sending your carbs to Steve in Sunny Florida (Shoodabeen Engineering) might not be practical.
-
Welcome aboard.
Air filter: This is reusable. Wash with soapy water(dish detergent works well), dry, then wipe lightly with engine oil, the manual calls for 30W.
SiSF has done carbbies from over the pond, shoot him an email for particulars.
-
Thanks a lot guys !
I'll try draining the bowls first, and if that doesn't help, I'll rebuild the carbs. :)
-
Hmm, I think I'd better do it properly.
What would you guys advice, a good cleaning with an ultrasound device, or get new needles/gaskets etc?
-
Most everyone would recommend you talk to this gentleman... https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/
-
Hmm, I think I'd better do it properly.
What would you guys advice, a good cleaning with an ultrasound device, or get new needles/gaskets etc?
Neither one of those. You need to ship them out. This is something you should not be trying for the first time. This is the best advice your going to get. Get the FULL carb service done. You will not regret it.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/
If you want to know how to remove the carbs it is all here
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/video-resources
-
Hah, thanks! :D Good videos.
Sending the carbs overseas to modify them is not really an option due to costs and time-restraints. I would if I could, but it would probably cost almost as much as half a new bike, and I'll be without much needed transportation for too long. ;)
I think I'll open them up and clean them for starters. If that won't do the trick, I'll order the necessary replacement parts! Are there any good videos on cleaning our carbs, or checking the float levels?
I have done some work together with a good mechanic on the carbs of my previous bike, and at the garage I'm working at I'll have the help from a very good mechanic, so I won't be at it alone.
-
You better at the very very least install over flow tubes because if you dont I predict you will ruin your engine.
I was reading your earlier post
A while ago I had a leaking petcock, which overflowed the airbox.
You were very close to hydro-locking that bike. do not do it again.
Just trying to help you out. Why is it too much to ship?? Have you looked into it? We have had many people send their carbs in for servicing from overseas.
Just another FYI- we have had others try and do their own carbs with mechanics and mechanical backgrounds because they thought they could save some money and started out with the best of intentions and confidence.. Mostly that ends up with total failure and costing them way more to repair the additional damage. Your questions tell me you should not be doing this yourself.
Not saying that is the case for you- just letting you know. Trying to save money on carb maintenance can and most likely will cause you major grief and multiple carb removals and alot more money and major downtime. Please dont be that guy.
I do wish you the best of luck, I really do.
-
if you do get into trouble, buy a used setup off ebay over here then have it shipped direct to Shoodabeen. In this way you only have to pay one way shipping to you and then you can sell your used carbs over there.. Just trying to help out with options. Here is a cheap set
http://tinyurl.com/mg2egpn (http://tinyurl.com/mg2egpn)
-
Thank you for the advice! You're a great help!
Having a set shipped from the US directly to here might be a good option. I would indeed like the overflow options, seems like a must have. I'll consider my options!
I don't have much to spend at the moment, unfortunately, but a safety against a disastrous spending is also wise. :)
Regardless, I will order a petcock-rebuild set to rule out a leaking petcock as best as I can. :P
I'll clean these carbs, if I keep them they'll best be clean, and if I decide to go from a carb-set from the US I can probably sell them off easier if they're clean! :)
-
also, spring for a new petcock. It will be time and money saved in the long run.
-
While you're doing the carbs, do a valve adjustment and compression test.
-
spring and petcock rebuild kit are underway!
Today I took the carbs apart, cleaned them and installed new float needles. I found some dirt in the carbs, so it wasn't for nought. Only thing I can do now is drive 300km to see if the fuel consumption has improved!
(http://i.imgur.com/mqR37x5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Y8JVtU5.jpg)
I also did the CDI-rewire-power-mod.
Haven't checked the compression, the valves have been adjusted only 1000km ago. :)
-
:popcorn:
-
Did you check and/or reset the bowl fuel height since you had them so conveniently removed? Please tell me if you didn't that you didn't mix parts up - otherwise, it will most-likely get worse now.
-
Yup. :) Everything should be fine. I got help from a well-experienced mechanic at the workshop.
-
you have the brass needle jet in your carburetor - clearly shown in the photo. That was discontinued in the US by 1985 due to the high wear and inability to properly meter measured fuel. That alone will cost you fuel economy is a big way. Remove them and look through with a light, you'll notice the hole is oblong or egg shaped as opposed to properly round. My advise would be to replace them, and also the slide needles if they are showing measurable wear. HTH, steve
-
BTW, I'm sure Steve will be more than happy to ship his needle kit to you if you'd like to buy it from him. Much lighter than a full carb, so I'm sure the shipping costs would be worth it to you in the long run.
Steve has put a lot of research into his needle designs, utilizing a few of the group here as willing (and happy) guinea pigs over the years, and the reason so many of us are raving about him right now is because his products quite simply improve the performance of the bike, from both a power and an economy standpoint. He's been working on Connies for well over a decade now (2-3 decades?) and he has a particular love for this bike.
I still remember the dyna charts 'here's the performance with this tweak, here's the performance with this other tweak, note the flat spot on the dyna chart at 'x' RPM range, and note how this change reduces that'. Yes, Steve takes this stuff THAT seriously!
I've never seen an unhappy Steve customer on this forum, or on the previous version of this forum. He makes great products, pure and simple. The one time I remember reading about some issue (I think it was shipping related -something was damaged in transit or something), Steve fixed it in short order and again, happy customer!
In the Connie's case, the 'factory' version of the Connie is OK (really more than OK, she's a really fun bike), but it can be improved upon fairly easily for those that are mechanically inclined. For those who are gearheads that like to do performance and efficiency tweaks, it's a good bike for that! Plus it's no slouch to begin with, which is why I'm still a proud owner of mine!
Anyways, good to see you've got a handle on the problem, and let us know how you make out! Connies are great bikes and I'm sure you can't wait to get back on the road once you've put the proper TLC into your carb rebuild.
-
I'm one of the few guinea pigs, and yes, I'm a happy camper.
-
Tzigane Any updates for us? :popcorn: :popcorn:
-
Due to circumstances I've only been able to ride 80km or so, so I can't tell much yet. Bike runs fine though. :)
I'll definitely get back once I have more info. :D
-
Just for reference, here are my stats:
over 18k miles (30,000 km) tracked
38.2 MPG (16:1 km/l)
I often wondered why a lot of folks were getting better mileage. I attribute this to carrying too much weight, both me and my gear
I am 6'3" (1.9m) and 225 lbs (58 kilos). I keep the bags on all the time, and will bring stuff that I rarely use just because
And I am also one of those weirdos here in the U.S. that wishes we had gone metric in the 70s when we started.
-
Thanks! 1:16 seems like a good mileage though. I'm hoping to get something like 1:18. That'll give me a range of 385 instead of only 300km.
I don't drive fast or hard and I'm only 60kg. (132 lbs, which also means this is the first bike I can't get up on the centre-stand on my own. >:( I've owned heavy bikes before and had no trouble at all, but this one somehow requires more weight than I can provide. )
I have a 250km ride to go tomorrow to photograph a wedding, so I can finally check the fuel consumption on the bike.
(And yes, not measuring in metrics sounds completely silly to me. :P Here, I'm terribly sorry to say, we often even make fun of it: "Do we need real measurements or American measurements?" - "American", which then results in using arbitrary and random amounts and lengths in whatever we're doing. I do get frustrated when trying to cook/bake American recipes using ambiguous and ridiculous measurements like "cups" and "spoons" though. )
(PS: Shouldn't 225 lbs be 102kg then? ;) )
-
at least we don't weigh ourselves with "stones" 8) steve
-
I'm only 60kg. (132 lbs, which also means this is the first bike I can't get up on the centre-stand on my own. >:( I've owned heavy bikes before and had no trouble at all, but this one somehow requires more weight than I can provide.
The search feature can be your friend, Tzigane. Several different comments on help for the center stand issue. Sometimes a different technique will help. :chugbeer:
-
To take this topic sideways for a bit:
I'm 6'1", 195 pounds (that's .0018542 kilometers, and 0.0884505122 metric tonnes) and I had center stand troubles until I learned to develop the "muscle memory" to do it. I started with the bike stripped down, (it was apart for maintenance anyway), no fuel tank, luggage, seat, etc. I practiced until I got her up on the stand a dozen times or so, then gradually added stuff back until I could do it fully assembled.
-
Not for nothin' but wasn't it the country with the funny measuring system that put men on the moon and brought them safely back? 8)
-
Not for nothin' but wasn't it the country with the funny measuring system that put men on the moon and brought them safely back? 8)
Well, yeah, but the same country (us, as in U.S.) lost a Mars probe because we got confused between the English system (only used in America) and metric (used in England and just about everywhere else).
Details here:
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/ (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/)
-
Proves my point. If we would have stuck with Americanese values instead of Metricese values it would have been easy peasy. 8)
-
Hahaha. ;D
And thanks, I'll do some searching. I already came across some videos, but it didn't help so far. :)
-
Thanks! 1:16 seems like a good mileage though. I'm hoping to get something like 1:18. That'll give me a range of 385 instead of only 300km.
I don't drive fast or hard and I'm only 60kg. (132 lbs, which also means this is the first bike I can't get up on the centre-stand on my own. >:( I've owned heavy bikes before and had no trouble at all, but this one somehow requires more weight than I can provide. )
I have a 250km ride to go tomorrow to photograph a wedding, so I can finally check the fuel consumption on the bike.
(And yes, not measuring in metrics sounds completely silly to me. :P Here, I'm terribly sorry to say, we often even make fun of it: "Do we need real measurements or American measurements?" - "American", which then results in using arbitrary and random amounts and lengths in whatever we're doing. I do get frustrated when trying to cook/bake American recipes using ambiguous and ridiculous measurements like "cups" and "spoons" though. )
(PS: Shouldn't 225 lbs be 102kg then? ;) )
I am 6'3" (1.9m) and 225 lbs (58 kilos 102kg). aka FAT
Why yes... a svelte 102 as well :o
-
Had a 250km trip today. gassed up.
I did 1:16,4
Definitely better than 1:14/15
:)
-
Is there any difference in the carbs throughout the years?
-
Is there any difference in the carbs throughout the years?
how are you asking that, for the US models/ For all models worldwide? Steve
-
I'd like a "Royale with cheese" and an order of fries please...( or are those Frites... or.... Chips?)
::)
http://youtu.be/SLtwFugudZE (http://youtu.be/SLtwFugudZE)
-
how are you asking that, for the US models/ For all models worldwide? Steve
I would go with the US models since that is what I have.