New Concours riding impressions, and a few questions.

[maxtog]

"To answer your question, the secondary throttle system helps manage and smooth throttle response in part-throttle situations

Translation: "Bikes are getting so powerful/fast now, we are using secondaries to choke down the response/power so as not to freak out the driver"

[Dodgedoc]

the stebal air horn fits under the black panel to the right side of the fairing opposite side of the glove box. you can use a heavy duty zip tie to secure it to the frame  and the factory horn is close enough to tap into the harness

[lemosley01]

Just a guess but I would think it is to help meet pollution and import requirements. Seems like all the FI I4 bikes have them, not just Kawasaki.

The Hayabusa motors do not have them, of that I am certain. I'm not sure what other bikes have them, but I believe the majority do not use a secondary butterfly setup.

The secondaries make no difference WRT to pollution controls. Cars don't have them, and the pollution requirements on them are much more strict that motrocycles.

I suspect Kawasaki put them in place to make the bike more tractable and reduce their exposure to liability.

Built by accountants (like most things nowadays...)

[lemosley01]

This is from a DL1000 forum:

"To answer your question, the secondary throttle system helps manage and smooth throttle response in part-throttle situations by keeping the velocity of the air/fuel in the intakes high. It's also used to partially restrict engine output in 5th and 6th gear, but this is not its primary function."

Maybe on a DL1000. I could believe it is used for smoothing throttle response, except it isn't exactly smooth just off idle (this complaint is echoed on the forums). 3-6K RPMs are not 'just off idle', so by 3000 rpms, the flies should be open all the way.

On the C14 and ZX14/r we know via testing (thanks to Brock) that the flies open fully at 6000 RPM and remain open all the way through the rev range, regardless of what gear you are in.

[Rhino]

The Hayabusa motors do not have them, of that I am certain. I'm not sure what other bikes have them, but I believe the majority do not use a secondary butterfly setup.

The secondaries make no difference WRT to pollution controls. Cars don't have them, and the pollution requirements on them are much more strict that motrocycles.

I suspect Kawasaki .

Built by accountants (like most things nowadays...)

But most cars have port injection not throttle body and they have O2 sensor feedback. But I suspect you are correct that they "put them in place to make the bike more tractable and reduce their exposure to liability".

[gPink]

The flies are regulated more by throttle position than by rpm.

[lemosley01]

The flies are regulated more by throttle position than by rpm.

Where is the information on that? I seem to recall someone showing the flies position and it was a function of RPMs and gearing; I don't recall seeing throttle position in that data, though maybe it was.

I double checked - I was wrong; the Hayabusa motors do have secondaries, but Suzuki apparently uses them to control the power delivery of the various modes. I can tell you in A mode, the BKing definitely pulls like a 1400cc I4 should from off idle to near redline.

[gPink]

Info here
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28657.0.html
Fred worked with Guhl to get this done

[maxtog]

Info here
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28657.0.html
Fred worked with Guhl to get this done

+1 Thanks.... informative

[lemosley01]

Info here
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28657.0.html
Fred worked with Guhl to get this done

That was it, thanks!

Looking at that chart REALLY upsets me. I PAID for a 1400; I'm not a beginner and I don't need the manufacturers to 'look out' for my safety by limiting the engine.

[gPink]

Now you know how to fix it. 

[Pokey]

Do the "re-flash" and the flies stay in and you get the same if not better results as if pulling them?

[Rhino]

Info here
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28657.0.html
Fred worked with Guhl to get this done

+3 or 4 I didn't see this before. Good information.

[maxtog]

Do the "re-flash" and the flies stay in and you get the same if not better results as if pulling them?

You get better results by far.  The secondaries are used for traction control, starting/idle, and power control.  By reflashing, it can still do all three- with it mostly changing the power control.  AND the ECU will automatically compensate for the new secondaries map.  AND they tweaked the fuel maps some for better performance.

If you remove the secondaries, you completely lose an important part of the traction control system (although it will still work, just not as effectively nor as smoothly).  Then you also completely lose a part of the starting/idle/warmup system.  And the ECU will *NOT* compensate for the loss of the flies, so I assume the mix will go too lean at points in the map.  And that is dangerous for the engine.  And, finally, it will not tweak the fuel map for better performance.

[booger]

Middle of the road tourer compared to WHAT "tourer"?

I think that is more illusion than reality.  It is quiet, smooth, and aerodynamic with great protection.  It is faster than it appears.  It is not as "peaky" as a Busa, and is not as light as a ZX-10.  The C-14's power band is flatter/broader (which is nicer for touring) and it also feels stifled due to the secondary butterflies.  One you jump over the 4K RPM hump (flies/correctable) and account for the weight, the C-14 performs very well.

If you don't want comfort, quiet, storage, reliability, and amenities then get a ZX-14 which is a sports bike.

Maxtog, I actually bought exactly what I wanted......something I considered a "middle of the road sport tourer".  It's difinatey not a screamer.  And somewhat underpowered 1400 cc motorcycle.  Didn't say I didn't like it.  I actually bought it for many of the reasons that you listed.  But I am on my 27th motorcyce and, sorry, but  I don't consider the C-14 very powerful for the displacement.  And the performance, or lack of, really isn't just an illusion.  It's actual numbers.

[maxtog]

And the performance, or lack of, really isn't just an illusion.  It's actual numbers.

The actual numbers I have show:

* 156hp@10,500 engine with 136+ to the ground in a 688 pounds (wet) vehicle with 102 ft-lb@6,200
* 0-60 MPH in 2.9 seconds
* 0-100 MPH in 6.8 seconds
* 1/4mi in 10.76@126 MPH

That is great performance for a stock 1352cc sports TOURING bike with flies and pollution controls.  So I continue to think you are living in an illusion.

[VirginiaJim]

All this 'power' stuff is relative to what bike you had before the C14.  I've always had lower powered bikes.  To me, at stock, this bike has tremendous power.  If you had a ZX-14, or something similar, before, I could see how it might be a letdown of sorts and you would want to pep it up a bit.

[gPink]

I agree Jim. After years of airhead BMWs and HDs the stock c14 was the most powerful bike I've owned. I rode it for about two weeks before I started screwing with it.

[Rhino]

Maxtog, I actually bought exactly what I wanted......something I considered a "middle of the road sport tourer".  It's difinatey not a screamer.  And somewhat underpowered 1400 cc motorcycle.  Didn't say I didn't like it.  I actually bought it for many of the reasons that you listed.  But I am on my 27th motorcyce and, sorry, but  I don't consider the C-14 very powerful for the displacement.  And the performance, or lack of, really isn't just an illusion.  It's actual numbers.

No doubt many sport bikes would smoke the connie but what touring bike has better performance?

[st2sam]

No doubt many sport bikes would smoke the connie but what touring bike has better performance?

This touring bike! 

I gotta agree with VirginiaJim, "all this power stuff is relative to what bike you had before the C14".
The first time I wrung my C14's neck, it felt like I was dragging an anchor.  Now, four years and 45,000mi. later, it feels like a rocket ship!