Dragging caliper assistance

[B.D.F.]

The spacing and positioning on all components of the front end that mount using the axle are fixed. There is no adjustment. Putting everything together and snugging the axle nut down pinches all components against each other; it is a function of each component's size that sets the spacing of each <next> component. The rotors cannot be positioned anywhere other than where the stack- up tolerances put them, and the only way to change the location of the rotors would be to change the relationship machined into each fork leg between the caliper mounting bosses and the axle clamp position (the inside of the fork leg where it is machined to rest against the front bearing spacers), change the size of the spacer tube between the two front wheel bearings, or change the size of the front wheel bearing spacers.

The short version is that the axle pinches all of the components down to the actual size of all of the components.

The only variable is the excess clearance around the two caliper mounting bolts which does allow the caliper to be moved slightly when attaching them to the forks.

Brian

A coupla things come to mind here, semi-floating rotor buttons tend to become non-floating pretty quickly! Causing the rotor to lock into a position that most likely ain't good. Thus your run-out.

Also calipers need to be positioned so the rotor runs through the caliper casting pretty close to the center of the casting. Otherwise you get a rotor that could be shaving the caliper at worst or just off-center so much that the pistons on one side are too far out of their bores (extended) while the other side is barely moving at all. Go look straight at the caliper from the front of the bike looking back and see if the rotor is shifted to one side or the other. Guarantee that just about all the bikes on this board will be off somewhat! This is a function of where the pinch/axle bolts are holding the bottom of the fork tubes, all it takes it one tip over or a wheel change where the mech did not bother to center the fork legs on the axle.

So.... lube the snot out of the carrier buttons and work them free with your hands, thus making them semi-floating again (very important).
Next... check that the rotor/wheel assy is centered in the caliper casting as above. This can be done by releasing the pressure in the hydraulic/brake system, loosening all the triple clamp bolts slightly as well as the axle and pinch bolts and re-tighten (using correct torque) everything so as to end up with a triple clamp > forks > axle > caliper/rotor alignment.

Fretka

[Steve Bell]

1 fork leg actually floats, not sure what leg as I am not looking at my bike at the moment, but you can get one leg and that same caliper out of alignment. After you tighten the pinch bolts it won't move.

[B.D.F.]

You guys are going to make me go look. I have not removed or loosened the left side clamp bolts in a long time; when I take the front wheel off I just loosen the right side clamp bolts and remove the axle. Drawing the axle tight brings everything attached to the axle tight against the other side. If there is any float in the system it must be on the left fork tube where the axle nut goes through the fork lower.

Brian

1 fork leg actually floats, not sure what leg as I am not looking at my bike at the moment, but you can get one leg and that same caliper out of alignment. After you tighten the pinch bolts it won't move.

[Steve Bell]

If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!

[B.D.F.]

Yes I do and I have done the front end bouncing thing without really believing it. It struck me like someone in Japan was shaking his / her head and laughing over this....

The first couple of times I took the wheel off I tightened the axle and axle nut with two different wrenches and everything bound together as I remember. That is what had me question the whole 'bounce' procedure because it seemed as if the entire front end was captured by the flanges on the axle and axle nut. Then again, I don't remember any motorcycle front end with any float. But of course I could be wrong too. ?

Brian

If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!

[lather]

If you have a service manual it explains pumping the forks up and down to allign the forks then tightening the pinch bolts and the only possible reason for this is if 1 side floats. I could be wrong, it has also been a while since I had my front end apart, and my aging memory kinda sucks after 40!!

That's what I was talking about. I am not clear on why but assumje Kawasaki has a reason for specifying this procedure. The fork situation is possibly similar with my '99 VFR. The manual specifies that you check for minimum clearance (.7 mm) of caliper to rotor clearance on one side after front wheel installation. A .7mm feeler gauge is even included in the tool kit.

[VirginiaJim]

A long time ago a rider was in SEA on a quest for for some good Amboyan Burl.  He noticed that his front tire was wearing a bit thin so he found a place where one could remove the wheel to ready it for a good tire shop.  He flagged down an old Dodge pickup driven by a papa san.  He was careful to lay the wheel in the back but being new to two rotor front wheels he left them mounted on said wheel.  The tire shop appeared to be good and the wheel was re-shod with rubber of the best kind and the TP sensor was still in working condition.  The wheel was mounted to the bike and he continued on his quest for the best of Burls..  After a bit he noticed strangeness in the front brake lever in that it would appear at times to not have any braking force and then the lever would appear whole again.  He thought this strange but the quest kept his attention more than the lever.  He was also male and could not focus on two things at once but alas the strangest of noises emanated from the front wheel.  Metal on metal sounds it did make. Upon further inspection the pads on one side were down to the base.  A most unfortunate circumstance indeed as the remaining funds for the quest equaled the cost of a new rotor...  The quest was ended without Burl, but the brakes, they were whole again without noise and strangeness in the lever.  The quest will continue some day for the elusive Burl....

[B.D.F.]

There! Up in the tree! Why dat's a good ole, fashioned crotch burl....



Yeah, I know, offtopic.

Brian

A long time ago a rider was in SEA on a quest for for some good Amboyan Burl. 

<snip>

The quest will continue some day for the elusive Burl....

[VirginiaJim]

So what.  It ain't SEA.  I don't remember any pine trees there.  It don't count.

[B.D.F.]

I can't tell one burl from another....

Brian

So what.  It ain't SEA.  I don't remember any pine trees there.  It don't count.

[Tactical_Mik]

I have changed out my tires 5 times in the 21,xxx miles and until this issue started poking me, I never released the left side pinch bolts to remove the wheel.  I did, while taking suggestions from you all, redo the mount following the manuals specific instructions.  Of course I, then removed the wheel to clean etc. check tir etc.  Not sure if the specified precedure has benefit.  I am like Brian and don't see that if could make any difference as the flanges on the axle and axle nut are what's used to locate the front end. 

Maybe the manual procedure should be titled "anti-warpage,no brake draggib', rotor bliss, pixie's dance" or something like that.

Better yet, Kawasaki should have shaped the calipers like Shishi, that way the evil spirits would have stayed away.   

[R Nelson]

A coupla things come to mind here, semi-floating rotor buttons tend to become non-floating pretty quickly! Causing the rotor to lock into a position that most likely ain't good. Thus your run-out.

Also calipers need to be positioned so the rotor runs through the caliper casting pretty close to the center of the casting. Otherwise you get a rotor that could be shaving the caliper at worst or just off-center so much that the pistons on one side are too far out of their bores (extended) while the other side is barely moving at all. Go look straight at the caliper from the front of the bike looking back and see if the rotor is shifted to one side or the other. Guarantee that just about all the bikes on this board will be off somewhat! This is a function of where the pinch/axle bolts are holding the bottom of the fork tubes, all it takes it one tip over or a wheel change where the mech did not bother to center the fork legs on the axle.

So.... lube the snot out of the carrier buttons and work them free with your hands, thus making them semi-floating again (very important).
Next... check that the rotor/wheel assy is centered in the caliper casting as above. This can be done by releasing the pressure in the hydraulic/brake system, loosening all the triple clamp bolts slightly as well as the axle and pinch bolts and re-tighten (using correct torque) everything so as to end up with a triple clamp > forks > axle > caliper/rotor alignment.

Fretka

I've often wondered about this.  I take my rotors off anytime I'm changing tires because I know I'll bang them into something and ruin them.   I have noticed that the buttons between the rotors and carriers are always tight.  I never really knew if they should be lose enough that you can move them with your fingers or not.  Since they are supposed to be floating rotors I would think they should be lose.  If this is the case, then I'll go spend a little time lubing them up today so that each one is free to move.  So far my brakes have been trouble free, but I'd like to keep it that way.  What do you guys think?  Are yours lose enough that you can move them freely?  Thanks.

[Tactical_Mik]

Well, rode over to Wichita today to have the rotors checked out.  The one mech who knows how to use a dial indicator is off and wont be back until Tuesday.  At least I got IHOP breakfast out of the ride.  To be continued......

[VirginiaJim]

I can't move mine at all... I'm button challenged.  How do we 'free' them up without introducing a warpage?   Warp is only good on the  Enterprise.

[B.D.F.]

I believe the rotor retaining buttons on stock C-14 rotors are 'semi- floating' which means you can move them but only with tools. They are a sort of press- fit in the pockets and are somewhat distorted after being inserted. Only true 'free floating' buttons on some after market rotor brands will actually move with nothing but finger pressure.

Brian

I can't move mine at all... I'm button challenged.  How do we 'free' them up without introducing a warpage?   Warp is only good on the  Enterprise.

[R Nelson]

Thanks for the button lesson guys.

Back on topic:  I hope you get your rotors fixed and that eliminates the dragging you're getting.

[Tactical_Mik]

Had to go in today, after another delay.  The one person who knew how to run a dial indicator made it halfway around the wheel then stopped saying it was out of spec.  They are ordering a rotor for the left side of my wheel.  I suggested that I could install it since they are so busy but no joy.  Hopefully, I will have it replaced with enough time before my summer trip to make sure that solves the dragging issue.  It's a step forward any way.

[VirginiaJim]

Left side, why is it mostly the left side?