A thread about nothing at all....

[Sgt Mac]

4, 2 isn't enough and 6 is too much.

[B.D.F.]

I originally chose 2, thinking everyone else would also choose 2, thinking that virtually all would do so that everyone would get two free points, guaranteed. Then I re- thought it and if everyone else (or virtually so) was choosing 2, I would choose 6 and still not weight the average choice above 10%

The professor has been giving this test question since 2008. I believe he has awarded points (and 2 at that) to exactly one class of all taking the test from '08 to this last spring.

I believe this same problem, when known as the Prisoner Problem, is part of what got John Nash a Nobel prize in Economics.

Brian

6 

[gPink]

Being a greedy, capitalistic American I chose 6 in the event the majority would be of the 'Let's chose two so we all can benefit' mindset. If I'm correct I gain greatly if I'm wrong I lose nothing since there is no punishment for choosing incorrectly.

[B.D.F.]

I originally chose 2, for  the obvious reason (I think) that everyone can get 2 points just for the taking. Then I re-thought the situation, figured everyone else would also choose 2, and there was enough room for me to end up in the small group that would choose 6 without running any risk of actually having 10% of the group choose six.

It is the classic economic / ethical test of collusion and more simply, doing what benefits the individual or doing what is best for the group. Exactly as it works in the test, the majority of us (me included apparently) will choose to do what is best for us individuality, even at the expense of the group. It is one of the classic failing points of capitalism or a free- market society (and I am most certainly a capitalist!); without artificial limits, individuals or very small entities (oligopolies) will always press a situation to his / her / their own benefit (as capitalism not only teaches but encourages) at any cost to the larger, outside group, even so far as to end their own business.

That said, I did not see it coming and choose 6. 

Brian

Being a greedy, capitalistic American I chose 6 in the event the majority would be of the 'Let's chose two so we all can benefit' mindset. If I'm correct I gain greatly if I'm wrong I lose nothing since there is no punishment for choosing incorrectly.

[Rhino]

Being that grades are relative, there is no benefit to anyone if everyone gets an additional 2 points. I choose 6. Now if we are talking something tangible like everyone gets an additional 2 days of vacation or some thing like that, then I would choose 2.

[Classvino]

Being that grades are relative, there is no benefit to anyone if everyone gets an additional 2 points. I choose 6...

Our Stats teacher did the same - with the choices being 1 or 5 marks, and the cutoff being 25%. The class chose 5 almost unanimously - 2 people out of 87 people chose 1.  Discussing it after the fact, we all thought the same : Why not chose 5?  If everyone did, our relative mark stayed the same.  If less than 25% chose it, you got a nice bonus...

Win.  Or Break even at least...  No real downside.

The prof stated that if the bonus marks would've affected our final mark enough to matter enough to spend time agonizing over our choice, then we probably should've been more worried about studying longer than whether we got the bonus marks or not...

Jamie

[B.D.F.]

Grades may be relative but in my experience, they are more often based on actual standing. In other words, the difference of 6 points, especially on a [usually heavily- weighted final exam], could easily be half or even a full letter grade. As this little gem applies, the entire class could perhaps gain a half- letter grade if everyone got those 6 points.

But again, the whole point of the choice is to show how cooperative vs. non- cooperative decisions are reached. It is all part of game theory and if one chases it far enough down the rabbit hole, there are Nobel prizes awaiting.... such as the one John Nash (the focus of the movie 'A Beautiful Mind') received. This situation is well defined as 'The Prisoner dilemma' and some claim is part of what is called 'The Monty Hall problem' although I absolutely disagree with that. The "correct" answer for the entire class is to take the two points; the "most correct" answer for any individual is to vie for the 6 points because, well, we are basically unsatisfiable pigs as was built into us (and every other living thing) by nature and evolution.

Brian

Being that grades are relative, there is no benefit to anyone if everyone gets an additional 2 points. I choose 6. Now if we are talking something tangible like everyone gets an additional 2 days of vacation or some thing like that, then I would choose 2.

[Conniesaki]

Yeah if everyone gets 2 points, what has been gained? Same question for 6 points.

This reminds me of: Can you imagine the chaos that would occur if everyone was instantly given 1 million dollars??!

... which is basically what the Nazis tried to do to Britain in WWII under Operation Bernhard.

[VirginiaJim]

Hmmm, only a million, Dr. Evil?

[gPink]

Yeah if everyone gets 2 points, what has been gained? Same question for 6 points.

This reminds me of: Can you imagine the chaos that would occur if everyone was instantly given 1 million dollars??!

... which is basically what the Nazis tried to do to Britain in WWII under Operation Bernhard.

you'd have to form a co-op to buy a loaf of bread.

[Conniesaki]

Hmmm, only a million, Dr. Evil?

Yeah, I think a million would cause a lot of chaos! The new money of course wouldn't affect rich folks, at first, but can you imagine how many people living paycheck-to-paycheck (or no paycheck at all! i.e. gubmint checks) would run right out and spend it all on stupid crap?!

You'd have people running to the (malt) liquor store only to find out others beat 'em to it, and the fact that they've got a million bucks in their pocket to buy all the liquor they want, and now there is none! Man, infuriating!

It's almost as fun to think about as it is to think about winning the lottery 

[B.D.F.]

I can just imagine the conversation now: "Hey, let's make a car with the doors on 'the other way'!. No, no, not that other way, the other, other way.... like this:



Made in Germany in 1957/1958. A Zundapp Janus. 245 cc motorcycle engine, mid- engine design. A four- passenger car and the passengers in the back faced backwards. It did not catch on.... amazingly.

I can only assume that knob in the center of the side of the vehicle is for the 'hood' to service the engine. Makes perfect sense, yeah, that's it.

Brian

[gPink]

Did they weld two Isettas together?

[just gone]

Being that grades are relative, there is no benefit to anyone if everyone gets an additional 2 points.

Yeah if everyone gets 2 points, what has been gained? Same question for 6 points.

If you really mean everyone (like everyone in the world) then yes, but I believe the original question referred to "everyone in the class" and if you think nothing has been gained or that "grades are relative"...then you've been out of school for a very very long while. A 95 is an "A", an 89 is a "B+" an important 6 point distinction in the competitive world today where a 3.5 GPA is only adequate if you also have 5 or 6 time consuming school approved extra curricular activities to back it up to explain why you don't have a 4.0.
 I also have been out of school for a very long time, but the only times grades where relative were when the teacher decided that he had a class of dummies and decided to grade on the curve because the highest score in the class was a 68 or some such.

[Strawboss]

Frank Sinatra was originally supposed to play "Dirty Harry".

Supposedly, Patty Smyth of the group "Scandal" was asked to join "Van Halen" after David Lee Roth left the group. You wonder what they would have sounded like had that happened, sounds too far fetched to me though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50-gOeBilc&feature=player_detailpage

[Conniesaki]

Frank Sinatra was originally supposed to play "Dirty Harry".

Supposedly, Patty Smyth of the group "Scandal" was asked to join "Van Halen" after David Lee Roth left the group. You wonder what they would have sounded like had that happened, sounds too far fetched to me though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50-gOeBilc&feature=player_detailpage

Dare ya to watch that entire video with the audio muted.

[gPink]

Tried it both ways...not happening. Maybe if she had a stripper pole.

[MrPepsi]

Raccoons can be really mean.

[B.D.F.]

Yep, they get big (for a pest animal) and are related to the badger.

When I was a kid, I had a friend who had a pet racoon; amazing animal- he could open any door in the house including cupboards and the refrigerator. Smart, cunning and absolutely irresistible with that black mask, he could also be nasty and amazingly fast. They of course had to get rid of him for the usual reason- he got crankier and crankier as he got older (like some pirates I know...., OK, all the pirates I know).

I have never had it happen but I have heard stories about running into one of those things in a confined area such as an attic or garage, especially if the human is between it and the exit- whatever happens, it ain't gonna' be pretty for the human.

Glad to hear it worked out for you and your girlfriend. Not sure about the scratches on her leg though- we are going to need more photos of Kimberly.... lots more photos. And no more photos of your leg, for the love of God, please, no more photos of that.   

Brian

Raccoons can be really mean.

[MAN OF BLUES]

Cleveland Browns beat the Ravens in Baltimore.....what a historic day it is...wow.... 33 to 30.....