Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: MetrickMetal on December 26, 2012, 10:35:30 AM
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Hi all.
Well, I’ve gotten got quite a bit done on the C10, and I try to do something to it each day if time permits, but I had stopped working on it for awhile while I finished up converting my 07 Bandit 1250S into a naked A model, as well as keeping my custom motorcycle parts business going, but I’ve started back in working on the Connie last week as I want to get it ready for this coming summer.
The bike got a couple of good initial good cleanings with S100, but there are a few more areas that I need to hit and concentrate on, but overall all it was more than clean enough to start working on.
Here is a list of things that I have modified and serviced so far.
Cropped the rear fender and made a new aluminum license plate mount
Cut the passenger grab rails off, and left the rear rack portion to which I attached
some powder coated aluminum bungee spools to, as well as set of bungee spools for the forward grab rail frame mounting holes.
Removed the stock coolant recovery tank, and mounted a Ninja 250 recovery tank where the EVAP canister resided using custom aluminum mounting brackets I made that attach to the upper right foot peg mounting bolt, and one of the 6mm threaded holes that mounted the EVAP control valve to the frame, and it’s very secure
Removed the PAIR system, and made a set of billet block off plates which I powder coated semi-gloss black.
Removed the shifter linkage and inspected it, cleaned and lubed it and installed a set
of black Delrin thrust washers in place of the stock steel washers for now, and it’s all still nice and tight right now, but more upgrades coming when it needs it down the road.
Cleaned and flushed out the clutch and brake systems.
Changed the engine oil and filter, and the rear drive oil
Cleaned out all of the varnish and very slight amount of rust out of the gas tank using BB’s and lacquer thinner which worked great.
Made a custom aluminum block off plate for the PAIR system air supply hose outlet on the front of the air box.
I finally got the carbs removed last week and I’m starting on boiling them out and rebuilding them and get them installed back on the bike. I tried doing a search on recommended jetting, but I couldn’t really find anything. The bike is a CA model and currently has #130 main jets and #35 pilot jets installed, so I wanted to know what the factory main jet size is for non CA C10’s
The next thing I need to buy is a battery and then work at getting it started up. If everything appears to be fine with the motor which I’m pretty sure it will be, I’m going to spring for the stick coil kit and then move on to doing a complete service on the front forks and the steering stem as on of the fork seals is leaking, and then go through and clean, inspect and grease the rear suspension and swing arm as well, followed by a new set of tires. Then the only other thing I need to do is to buy a new windshield for it. The after I ride it for awhile, I’ll start looking at other things I want to make for it, or change, and one of them will be a custom billet rear rack plate.
I’m going to take some pictures of some of the mods I’ve done and post them up in the next couple of days. :)
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non ca bikes have 125 mains. hTH, steve
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"I finally got the carbs removed last week and I’m starting on boiling them out and rebuilding them and get them installed back on the bike."
You really boiling em out??
What kind of parts do you make? edit to add....nevermind, I just noticed your web site link and took a look.
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"I finally got the carbs removed last week and I’m starting on boiling them out and rebuilding them and get them installed back on the bike."
You really boiing em out??
What kind of parts do you make? edit to add....nevermind, I just noticed your web site link and took a look.
Boiling out the carbs is an old term I've used which means soaking the carbs in a can of Berryman Chem-Dip carb cleaner. :)
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non ca bikes have 125 mains. hTH, steve
Thanks Steve,
And after doing some more searches I had found that the jet info I was looking for was in the service manual. ;)
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Gary Murphy has factory Keihin #120s at a good price (and interestingly, no other main jets...) -- many a carburetor article notes that mains are often over rich to compensate for pilot and part throttle being over lean. I'm running the 120s now, and while I haven't been on a dyno (ever, saddly), it certainly doesn't feel the least bit too lean.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=258 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=258)
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Gary Murphy has factory Keihin #120s at a good price (and interestingly, no other main jets...) -- many a carburetor article notes that mains are often over rich to compensate for pilot and part throttle being over lean. I'm running the 120s now, and while I haven't been on a dyno (ever, saddly), it certainly doesn't feel the least bit too lean.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=258 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=258)
Thanks.
Thanks.
I had already put together a list of all the parts for the carbs I needed, and added the #120 jets to the list which I'll be ordering up shortly from Murph's, as there are a few more items I think I need to add to the list.
I decided that I'm going to design up an adjustable aluminum cover of some type for one side the air box inlet to use to use for tuning purposes once I get it back together instead of plugging the inlet up with foam rubber, and I'm going to try and make it so that it's easily adjusted. I pulled the air box out this morning and I'm going to start fooling around with it today.
I've got two carbs cleaned as of yesterday, and I've got the 3rd one soaking today, I'll be taking some pictures later today of some of the mods I've already done and posting them up. :)
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Here's a few pics of some of the mods I've done to the bike. I'm going to do a valve clearance inspection sometime this week and get that out of the way, as well as start designing up an adjustable block off plate for the air box inlet. :)
Custom air box plugs that I machined up.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/003-3_zps31943975.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/001_zps42a1d797.jpg)
Ninja 250 coolant recovery tank mounted with custom aluminum mounting brackets I made, and it's all plumbed back up to the cooling system.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/024_zpsb1a3d7a1.jpg)
PAIR block off plates that I machined up.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/027_zps4bb1662d.jpg)
Passenger grab rails cut off and the brackets machined to accept some custom aluminum bungee spools. these were some I had lying around from another bike I had them on, but I'm going to be making some news ones shortly as they both need to stick out a little farther, but I definitely think it looks a lot better with the grab rails removed.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/025_zpsf7c9a1b0.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/030_zps29725a71.jpg)
Cropped rear fender with custom license plate mounting bracket I made. I need to get a black license plate trim ring for it to finish it off.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/29_zps9a9c5748.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/033_zps0b996f40.jpg)
Its nice to have a large unused area inside to store all the bodywork.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/037_zps6e7670d1.jpg).
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OUTSTANDING WORK!! Can not wait to see it all done. Nice job!! ;D ;D
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OUTSTANDING WORK!! Can not wait to see it all done. Nice job!! ;D ;D
Thanks, and I can't wait to see it all done myself.
The bike was given to me, and I'm figuring that I'll have around $1000 in it to get everything back in tip top shape, and all of the body work is in really good shape, so if it ends up running great, I can ride ride the crap out of it and not have to worry about anything happening to it. I also contacted my insurance company and they said that adding it to my existing policy with the same amount of full coverage won't increase my premuims, but actually lower it a few bucks per year. ;D
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Well I bored over the time between Christmas and New Years, so here are the latest mods to the Connie for Christmas.
I had been eyeballing the front rider peg brackets and rear passenger peg/muffler hanger brackets and thinking that they would a lot better if they were black. So I pulled them off and after smoothing out all of the casting lines, I powder coated them semi-gloss black.
I also decided to remove ear for the foot pegs from the rear passenger peg/muffler hanger brackets. So after cutting the ears off close to the top of the boss with my band saw, I bolted them to a plate and then I machined the remaining portion of the boss down flush to the rest of the surface of the bracket, but in doing so I broke into an area of porosity on both brackets, and both in the exact same location just next to the existing hole that is already cast into the back side of the brackets which was also exposed when I milled the bosses down flush, and this is sometimes what happens when machining a cast aluminum part.
I tried machining out the small areas of porosity by milling in some shallow ball mill grooves on each side of the hole which would look good after the brackets were powder coated, but it did not get rid of the porosity marks and at that point I did not want to machine the grooves any deeper. So I machined up two 1/8” aluminum cover plates that are held on with a 5mm screw that screws into a stepped threaded shoulder nut that fits into the hole on the back side of the brackets, and they don’t look to bad, and they cover up both the hole and the small areas of porosity.
The hole is centered on the boss for the peg mounting ears, and I had already planned on using it for mounting the passenger pegs back on if I ever wanted to, using a bolt on billet foot peg adapter mount to accept the stock peg just like I make and sell for another bike I make parts for, and for which I have done on other bikes I have owned.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/17_zps52db6181.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/15_zps1a691887.jpg)
I also decided while I had the foot peg brackets off to clean them up that I decided to remove the nasty looking casting lines from the brake lever as well, and give it a full smoothing and polishing. I also wanted to remove the mechanical brake light switch, as I have never been a fan of them, so I remembered that I had a custom hydraulic brake light switch adapter that I made from another bike I owned that still worked great, so it got installed with a double banjo bolt, and it uses a common automotive hydraulic brake light switch which can be purchased at any auto parts store. I also made up a custom polished aluminum press in plug to fill in the mounting hole for the stock brake light switch.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/07_zpsa8517e90.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/08_zps765fb538.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/13_zps2a5d9d82.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/18_zps2cee8b2b.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/34_zps9f83f941.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/02_zps549f01ec.jpg)
I also reworked my license plate mount that I had made, as even though it looked better than stock after the first go round, I was still not quite happy with the way it looked, as it still did not lay parallel to the surface on the back of the fender. So to get the license plate to lay parallel to the back of the fender I had to do what I planned to originally, which was to cut out the stock angled mounting area on the rear fender. So to cut out the area I used my handheld propane torch to heat up an old Exacto knife chisel blade I use for just such purposes, to melt and cut around that section on the fender. After cleaning up the cutout, I machined up a 3’ x 6” x 1/8” thick support plate to fit on the back side of the fender to cover up the cutout, and to also act as a stiffener for the fender.
After I drilled the new mounting through the fender using the holes in the back up plate as a guide, I drilled and countersunk two new holes in the 1/8” aluminum backing plate I had already made to line up with the holes in the backup plate, and spaced the backing off of the fender with two 1 ¼” dia x ½” wide black Delrin spacers. Now the license plate sits parallel to the back of the fender and look a lot better and with the stiffener in place the fender it very solid now. Now all I need to finish it off is a black license plate trim ring which I'll buy the next time I go over to Cycle Gear. :)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/29_zps9a9c5748.jpg)
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looking good! Steve
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I'd love to park my 1989 170k mile C10 next to yours.
It would make yours look SPECTACULAR!
Mine has been neglected, crashed, neglected some more, and is on it's 2nd swingarm (rust) and 3rd set of fork tubes.
Keep up the good work. It's nice to see that someone loves their bike.
Me, i just love riding mine. ;D
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Great detail work!! can not wait to see this bike done!! NICE JOB
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Great detail work!! can not wait to see this bike done!! NICE JOB
Thanks.
Now that I've got the carbs cleaned up, I need to finish up my list of parts I have to order from Murph's, and then I can work on getting it running. :)
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That's looking really good. I'm restoring my dad's bike myself. It has quite a few upgrades and details. Your tag mount looks good, the black frame will make it nice. I picked up some tag bolts that have an LED built into them so the bike will be legal in VA. They look pretty slick. They're about as big as the eraser on a pencil. I also painted all of the silver bits black including the diff. I did the foot rest part of the pegs black also. I think it makes the bike look better, perhaps a little more modern. If you haven't did anything to the forks (if you need to clean them up), you might consider painting them black also. I used spray-on Rhino-liner and they came out really well. The wheels are black also. Matter of fact, the entire bike is black and debadged with a shorty windshield. I need to buff some plastics and do the carbs before it comes back together. Winter sucks with no heat in the garage.
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Well, my older sister just gave me and my brother each a check for $1000 as her way of saying thanks for all the help we given her, and I really didn't want to accept it, but she insisted that we do.
So this will just about pay for everything I need to buy to finish up the Connie. So next week I start ordering up the parts I need.
So now with this and getting the bike for free, I'll be in it for only about $500 out of my pocket total. ;D
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All of your pictures seem to have disappeared in the previous posts.
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All of your pictures seem to have disappeared in the previous posts.
I had some problems with my Photobucket account, but the pictures are all back. :)
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Nice work!
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Well I finally ordered up all of the parts to rebuild my carbs including new #120 main jets and a new petcock from Murph’s today, and I finished cleaning out the gas tank which looks great inside.
The tank didn’t have a lot of rust, but it had a lot of varnish inside. So removed the petcock and the fuel gauge sending unit and made up a couple of simple aluminum block off plates to seal up the openings, using the sending unit rubber seal along with a flat rubber seal I made for the petcock opening. I then bought a gallon of lacquer thinner from a local bulk supplier for about $4 and I poured a ½ gal of it in along with a bunch of steel BB’s and closed the gas cap and proceeded to shake the tank around for quite awhile, after which I drained the tank which removed quite a bit of the crap inside.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/blockoffplates_zps955e1e60.jpg)
I then poured the rest of the lacquer thinner inside and repeated shaking the tank around for quite awhile, and then I drained the lacquer thinner out and used my long flexible magnet to reach in and remove all of the BB’s.
I then poured a 2 qt mixture of simple green and hot water inside the tank and swished it around well, then I removed the two block off plates and placed the tank on a large plastic pan I have and turned on the hose on and thoroughly flushed out the tank, and I rotated the tank around until I got all of the water drained out of it, and now it’s sitting outside in the sun with the cap opened up as well as the openings on the bottom of the tank, and it should dry out fairly quickly as were going to have a high of 85 today, and it’s already pretty warm outside.
Anyways the tank looks great inside, and soon as I get the new petcock it will be ready to go. I was going to buy a used petcock and a rebuild kit from Murph’s, but even with the cheapest petcocks I could find on eBay, after buying one and the rebuild kit I was within $13 of a brand new one from Murph’s, so I decided to just go with a brand new one.
After I get the carbs rebuilt and back on and install the gas tank, I’ll buy a new battery and get it fired up. If everything looks good with the engine which I’m sure it will be, I’m going to spring for a set of stick coils and a new windshield, and then I need to rebuilt the forks to fix a leaky seal as well as inspecting and greasing the rear suspension linkage, then I can ride it around for a little while for a more thorough evaluation, and if everything looks good I’ll put new tires on it, and go from there.
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Thanks everyone for the positive feedback. ;)
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The tank was thoroughly dry this morning, so I poured about a half gal of old two stroke gas to which I added a little bit more motor oil to and poured it in the tank and swished it around and drained it out to leave a coating of oil on the inside of the tank, and the gas that came out looked good, so the tank is done outside of installing the new petcock which is on it's way. :)
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just a note of caution, having re-furbished a few tanks over the years...
using a volatile flashpoint cleaner like laquer thinner, mixed with steel b-b's and shaking a sealed tank is VERY risky...
I would not suggest that to anyone, as it could blow up should a spark occur.
My normal routine for cleaning a rusty tank consists of using a much safer flash point solvent, such as kerosene or mineral spirits, and an inert (non ferrous) non sparking abrasive like aquarium gravel (the sharp natural stuff that around BB size). I have even used regular fine limestone gravel, which I washed repeatedly prior, and screened out to remove the fine stuff, leaving the coarser for use.
It all seems to come back out when you do the final washing and drying.
After all that, it would have been wise to use a coating, seeing as it is now bare, clean metal. POR-15 makes a great Zinc-phosphate protective rust conversion product, which is re-usable over and over. Its shown here:
http://www.por15.com/PREP-READY/productinfo/MRG/ (http://www.por15.com/PREP-READY/productinfo/MRG/)
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Awesome restoration thread.
+1 I've had great luck with the POR15 products in some horrid motorcycle tanks.
That product was instrumental in me bringing this bike back to life
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/sw600rr15_naked.jpg)
And then run on Homestead-Miami track
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/orangebike.jpg)
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is that the one you wrecked? I vaguely recall some photos posted of a badly crumpled machine...
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just a note of caution, having re-furbished a few tanks over the years...
using a volatile flashpoint cleaner like laquer thinner, mixed with steel b-b's and shaking a sealed tank is VERY risky...
I would not suggest that to anyone, as it could blow up should a spark occur.
My normal routine for cleaning a rusty tank consists of using a much safer flash point solvent, such as kerosene or mineral spirits, and an inert (non ferrous) non sparking abrasive like aquarium gravel (the sharp natural stuff that around BB size). I have even used regular fine limestone gravel, which I washed repeatedly prior, and screened out to remove the fine stuff, leaving the coarser for use.
It all seems to come back out when you do the final washing and drying.
After all that, it would have been wise to use a coating, seeing as it is now bare, clean metal. POR-15 makes a great Zinc-phosphate protective rust conversion product, which is re-usable over and over. Its shown here:
http://www.por15.com/PREP-READY/productinfo/MRG/ (http://www.por15.com/PREP-READY/productinfo/MRG/)
Thanks for your input, and yes lacquer thinner is flammable, but I personally think It's probably impossible to ignite it sloshing it around in a tank with BB's that are suspended in a it, but I could be wrong, but lacquer thinner does work great at removing varnish. It's funny that you mentioned por15 which I have used before as I was thinking about using it on this tank also even before I used the lacquer thinner to remove all of the varnish.
The reason I used steel BB's is because of prior experience trying to get other types of not metallic media out of a gas tank, and I'm glad I went with steel BB's as due to the C10's tank design they will not come out of any of the openings on the tank on their own period, and the only way to get them out was using a long flexible magnet. So if I were to have put something non metallic in the tank like small stones I would have never gotten them out. ;)
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Well I'm backworking on the C10, and I just finished assembling the carbs after a good cleaning, new main jets, needles,float bowl o-rings, setting the float level, new air mixture screw o-rings and new fuel rail o-rings. I used the 17mm float setting from the service manual, and two floats were spot on, and two were out a little over 1.5mm. I though I remembered reading about another float setting here but haven't been able to find it.
They'll go back in this week and then I need to order a new battery and get it started up. :)
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Search around for the float setting method that uses clear tubing. That is the best way to get them set exact right at the bowl parting line. Its done while they are still on the workbench. You can find it, so I won't explain it again. Here are some pix to get you thinking.
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Search around for the float setting method that uses clear tubing. That is the best way to get them set exact right at the bowl parting line. Its done while they are still on the workbench. You can find it, so I won't explain it again. Here are some pix to get you thinking.
Thanks, and I might try this to double check the float adjustments, and this procedure is also decribed in the factory service manual.
I stopped by the metric bolt supplier I buy my fasteners from yesterday and picked up some M4 S/S socket head screws and lock washers to replace all of the float bowl screws as well as the M6 and M5 screws for the two carb stay plates. I also powder coated the carb stay plate semi gloss black which looks really good with the S/S screws. :)
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I checked the valve clearances this morning which is one of thing I wanted to perform before I attempt to start the engine up, and I'm glad I did as they were all so tight that I could not get the fellers gauges between any of the valves, and they all required about close to 1/2 turn out to get the gauges to go in.
All of the locknuts and adjuster screws all had the red factory QC marker paint on them, and it looked like maybe they had ever had a wrench put on them. One thing I quickly found out to make the valve cover come off easily is to loosen the two M6 screws that attach the cooling system manifold to the back of the head and pull it back about 3/8". After I pulled the manifold out a little, I squirted some silicone spray around each of the round sections of the manifold that fit into the head to help lube up the o-rings, and the manifold pushed easily back into the ports on the head.
One thing I did notice is that the exhaust and intake cam lobes on cylinders 2&3 both have some light spalling and pitting on them, so I’ll run it with them for awhile until I make sure the engine is going to be ok, then I’ll pick up a set of the torque cams from SISF. :)
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Just a quick FYI, pretty much all of the 'stock' cams on Connies are prone to pitting, so keep this in mind. Most of us have some degree of pitting with the stock cams after some miles. So if yours are just lightly pitted, this shouldn't really be considered a major issue yet (keep an eye on it, though), although it makes a great excuse to get Steve's cams.
And everyone wants better performing cams, right? It's on my to do list this year...
;D
If they are starting to get a lot of deeper pitting and such, though, well of course it's time.
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Search around for the float setting method that uses clear tubing. That is the best way to get them set exact right at the bowl parting line. Its done while they are still on the workbench. You can find it, so I won't explain it again. Here are some pix to get you thinking.
I was hoping to see if there were any threads on here with any tips on setting the float bowl fuel level using tubing to gauge the fuel level height, but I've spent more than an hour doing searches here using every conceivable combination of wording for threads on setting the fuel level, including the search titles that you even recommended in another thread, which were float level, float height, and I got nothing, except being directed back to your thread saying to do a search.
So instead of wasting any more time in a futile search on the subject, I’m going to go ahead and buy the level setting gauge from Kawasaki and set up my carbs on my bench with an auxiliary fuel tank I have and set the fuel level using the procedure described in the factory service manual.
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Interesting. Maybe all this stuff was in the old forum before it crashed. I'll try to explain what I do, which would be pretty much the same as others do. What you are trying to do is set the fuel level right at the middle of the bowl to body parting line, and make them all equal. Treat this task as if it was surgery, and keep it as clean as possible.
You will need about a foot or two of clean, clear tubing that will slip on (and stay on) the carb drain nipples. I have an old battery vent line that is perfect, although some fish tank air lines work too.
You will need a way to suspend the carbs so you can take the bowls off to bend the tab/tang that each float needle is attached too. See my earlier picture. Others have made stands from PVC you can search for. This task can also be done on the bike, put is a real pain and I would not recommend that.
You will also need a fuel supply (or low-volatile mineral spirit - kerosene) above the carbs to feed them as you remove and reinstall each bowl until you get the desired adjustment. Work them one at a time. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A FLAMABLE TASK you are performing so take appropriate measures.
And finally, a nice fresh, new, clean piece of fuel line.
Place a fuel-safe drain pan below the carb area to capture the spilling fluid.
So what do you do? Hook up the fuel supply to the carbs with the supply line. Attach the clear tubing to carb #1's drain nipple. Put the petcock on PRIme. Wait a few seconds, then with the tubing in kind of a "J" shape with the outlet above the carb top, open the drain screw to let the fuel flow into the tube. Hold the tubing very still. See where it stops in relationship to the parting line. Carefully lower the tubing an inch to see if it fills to the same level. Do not pull the tubing upward as this pushes fuel back into the carb and gives a false high reading - only go downward and let it fill as you do. Turn off the petcock. Close the drain screw. If adjustment is needed, take the bowl off and bend the tab the get the desired level. Repeat until satisfied.
Move to carb #2 and do it again, then do the others.
I've read from others (thanks Rich - COG 5977!) that to static bench synch the carbs nicely, make them all equal with the linkage adjustment screws, and then set them, as a group, so you only see HALF of the front-most tiny hole uncovered by the butterfly plates in the venturi opening.
Make sure you have tightened all bowl screws.
Make sure (again) you have tightened all bowl drain screws. Not too tight, as a few people have reported splitting the hole open.
Clear as mud? I think I covered it guys, let me know what I missed or incorrectly stated. I'm saving this when it's done for future use.
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Thanks so much!
Well I'll save the $20 buck or so for the factory setting gauge, and since I have to order some stuff for my shop from McMaster Carr this week, I'll order up a piece of clear Tygon fuel tubing to use. :)
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Hi everyone.
I haven’t been on here for awhile or working on the Connie since the last stuff I posted up on about rebuilding the carbs on it because I’ve just been so busy with my business and doing work on my house getting it ready to sell.
I had bought a set of Denso stick coils off of eBay for $30 shipped that appeared to be like brand new, as well as a coil connector harness off of a Honda CBR600RR that I also got off eBay for $16 shipped that I cut up to use for making up the wiring loom for the coils.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/Stick%20coils/Stickcoils_zpsc03eceb7.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/Stick%20coils/001_zpsfa181634.jpg)
I made up a bread board out of piece of ¼” masonite and a couple short pieces of 2x4’s with holes in the masonite to hold the coils on the same centerline as on the head for making up the wiring loom, which worked out great, and I’m pleased with how the loom came out.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/Stick%20coils/Stickcoilwiringloom1_zps54c8739d.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/Stick%20coils/Stickcoilwiringloom_zpsf73ed162.jpg)
Now I plan to perform the liquid level check on the rebuilt carbs so I can get them installed and work at getting the engine started up, as my goal is to get the bike up and running and ready to ride by the end of the year or sooner. Once I get the engine sorted out and running well and am confident that it’s going to be ok, and then I am going to proceed with rebuilding the forks and servicing the stem bearings, and then a complete servicing of the rear suspension.
I need to get a new battery for my 07 Bandit 1250 as it’s the original battery, so I’m going to use the battery out of it for awhile in the Connie to use to get it started up and running as it’s close to the size of the Connie’s battery and will fit in the battery box, then I will buy a new battery for the Connie as well before I start to do any serious riding on it. :)
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Wow!
I'm a newbedo here and just finished reading through the thread. You do very nice, clean work.
Also got a deal that was too good to refuse on a Connie (2003 with 10,000 miles) and am already in love with the bike. Have done most of the overdue maintenance, am pondering mods/improvements and picking your brains via this thread. :D
Already working on plates for the valve cover and stick coils are on the to do list. Should make cover removal for future valve adjustments less of a hassle.
Installing overflow tubes on the carbs and am curious if you are also planning to do so? It would be a bummer to see so much fine handy work undone by a bent rod.
Interestingly, I too encountered valves that had obviously never been adjusted even though a shop had billed the previous owner for doing so. Having turned wrenches professionally few things **** me off more than crooked mechanics.
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... Interestingly, I too encountered valves that had obviously never been adjusted even though a shop had billed the previous owner for doing so. Having turned wrenches professionally few things **** me off more than crooked mechanics...
How so obvious?
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If you have worked on a lot of engines and machinery you can usually spot a nut, bolt, gasket surface, cover screws ect. that have never been disturbed by wrench or screwdriver.
The owner was billed for a full tune up (about $650) and the bike only ridden about 80 clear weather miles before I got it.
In this case, none of the items that must be removed to facilitate removal of the valve cover seem to have ever been removed, the side cover (pulse cover) and valve cover had original sealant dabs where the factory applied it with no trace of it being cleaned off and or replaced, spark plugs were factory (new ones had been billed) and the air cleaner element was gummy and filthy. All items mentioned had a nice patina of dust and grime appropriate to the age of the bike. The valves were very much in need of adjustment.
In spite of all this the bike didn't run half bad but now it purrs like a kitten. :)
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If you have worked on a lot of engines and machinery you can usually spot a nut, bolt, gasket surface, cover screws ect. that have never been disturbed by wrench or screwdriver.
The owner was billed for a full tune up (about $650) and the bike only ridden about 80 clear weather miles before I got it.
In this case, none of the items that must be removed to facilitate removal of the valve cover seem to have ever been removed, the side cover (pulse cover) and valve cover had original sealant dabs where the factory applied it with no trace of it being cleaned off and or replaced, spark plugs were factory (new ones had been billed) and the air cleaner element was gummy and filthy. All items mentioned had a nice patina of dust and grime appropriate to the age of the bike. The valves were very much in need of adjustment.
In spite of all this the bike didn't run half bad but now it purrs like a kitten. :)
Have been spinning wrenches for 30 plus years including the m/c industry and would have never even contemplated charging the customer for services not rendered.... BTW the pulse cover does not NEED to be removed to properly set valves; mine as only been off once and it was not to set valves...
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Same here. Always bent over backwards to do the highest quality work possible.
Someone I consider my mentor for how to do business taught me that, " when dealing with people honesty is not the best policy, it is the ONLY policy."
Should probably make clear that I am not casting aspersions on mechanics in general but there sure are some bad apples out there.
Am new to this engine and did my first valve adjustment by the book (Clymer manual). Will try some of the other methods later.
Also considering a thou or so more clearance than Clymer lists ( .005 intake-.007 exhaust ) Noticed in the forums that most seem to do that.
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Am new to this engine and did my first valve adjustment by the book (Clymer manual). Will try some of the other methods later.
Also considering a thou or so more clearance than Clymer lists ( .005 intake-.007 exhaust ) Noticed in the forums that most seem to do that.
Yes most folks use the wider end of the spec at .007" for the intake and .009" for the exhaust.....
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What advantage/s are there other than longer interval between adjustments?
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What advantage/s are there other than longer interval between adjustments?
"Tappy Valves Are Happy Valves"
A too tight clearance may not allow the valve to fully close or stay seated long enough to transfer its heat into the head thus allowing it to overheat and face burn.
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"Tappy Valves Are Happy Valves"
+1 couldn't agree more
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I'm a mostly reformed air cooled VW Bug nut and the saying in that crowd is, " better to hear them chatter than to watch them splatter." :D
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+1 couldn't agree more
Right now I'm listening to 208 sets of valves do their thing......
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Hey Metrick Metal,
Didn't mean to jump your thread. Hows the project coming along?
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I have a question about the denso coil sticks.
The resistance of the stock coils is about 3 ohms. It's hard telling what the impedance is - the impedance includes the inductive reactance. For this to work, the resistance of the coil sticks should be six ohms, so that the ecu still sees a load of three ohms, overall. There's no way to compute the real deal without knowing the inductance of the coils and the coil sticks but, again, the inductance of the coil sticks should be twice the inductance of the stock coil.
Cutting through the chase, maximum power transfer (between the ecu and the coils) occurs when the impedance of the load (the coils) equals the impedance of the source (the ecu). And so, if these components are not properly matched, it would be very easy to drop too much power across the source (the ecu), causing it to overheat, and ruining it.
Since the inductive reactance varies with the rpm (2 pi x the frequency [rpm] x the inductance, in Henrys) here we have a circuit that is built to withstand a lot of mis-matching, in terms of power distribution. But paralleling 2 coils across the outputs of the ecu (which, in essence, is a transistorized amplifier) - WOW! Risky.
Have you done this before? Did it actually work?
I just want to let you know that there is a pretty good chance you will fry your ecu.
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I'm sure there are a bunch of us that got stick coils from T Cro. I used the same type he recommended and have had zero problems.
An excellent upgrade in my opinion.
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I'm sure there are a bunch of us that got stick coils from T Cro. I used the same type he recommended and have had zero problems.
An excellent upgrade in my opinion.
Did somebody say Beetle Juice ???
Alphonzo,
It's good to see that your a thinking man, but in this case your over thunking it and getting it wrongish....
I've had a storage failure so I've lost some data otherwise I'd post exact figures and such.
First off for the most part the stick coils that we are using have a primary resistance generally no higher than 1.5 to 1.8 ohms and they are thusly series together so as to be roughly equal to the stock dual output coil that they are replacing which has a resistance value of something like 2.2 to 3.8 ohms. The ignition system has no clue that there as been any change. The 2ndary resistance is also within spec too...
While I may not be the absolute first person to install stick coils on the Concours I am the person who introduced this upgrade in mass to this forum and on the COG forum too. Been selling these kits now for nearest to 4 or 5 years and have sold several hundred kits with just nary a complaint that could not be solved... The ZRX forums have been doing this for longer than we have and research has shown me that it was being done long before that so all in likely better than a decade of experience going on with these conversions.....
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A few yrs ago I rode down to Tony's house to purchase his stick coils. He installed them for free while I drank 2 of his Coronas. ;D I thought that was a pretty good deal!!
I also have his Heavy Duty shift linkage. Got rid of the whimpy Kaw linkage. Missed a shift only once due to a lazy foot.
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Hey - that's great! I'm glad you understood my concern, and that it was valid. Interesting that you are connecting the primaries in series, instead of parallel. If you guys have been doing it, and it works, that's all there is to it.
I think it would be a pretty cool upgrade, myself!
I don't get the part about Betelgeuse <== this is how you spell it :) I know I'm a star, but... how did you know? Are you psychic?
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If I'm not mistaken, I think he was referring to the movie.
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You figure? 8)
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Hey guys want to bring this one back from the dead. I bought this bike of metrickmetal about 2 weeks ago. The bike has been sitting since the last post. Carbs never got put in. Got the bike is 6-7 boxes. Been waiting on some small parta to get it all together.
Got the carbs back in. Filled all of the fluids. And got ready to start it. And drum roll please....... Nothing. No spark. So i had to pull the custom wiring harness apart and rewire it. Put mew plugs in and tried to fire it again and still nothing. So done for tonight but just wanted to get everyone attention that this bike will hopfully be rolling again. Ill try and post pic in a day or two but i usually cant figure out how off my phone.
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Hey guys want to bring this one back from the dead. I bought this bike of metrickmetal about 2 weeks ago. The bike has been sitting since the last post. Carbs never got put in. Got the bike is 6-7 boxes. Been waiting on some small parta to get it all together.
Got the carbs back in. Filled all of the fluids. And got ready to start it. And drum roll please....... Nothing. No spark. So i had to pull the custom wiring harness apart and rewire it. Put mew plugs in and tried to fire it again and still nothing. So done for tonight but just wanted to get everyone attention that this bike will hopfully be rolling again. Ill try and post pic in a day or two but i usually cant figure out how off my phone.
I gues that explains why its sat for the last 3 years... oh my.... nothing worse to fix, than a 3 year old mystery bike in pieces....
Best of luck, get some manuals, hopefully you got the FSM with that bike.... get a NEW battery, and fully charge it prior to any more attempts.
Make sure you clean all the cable ends with sandpaper before hooking the batt up.
We will make some popcorn shortly and await the screams....
OMG... I just looked back at your first posting here...the bikes been apart for 11 years, and has never run yet?
And its your first road bike?
Wow, we are gonnna need a lot of popcorn... and some good weed to go along with it....
I got plenty of tiedied tee shirts.
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It is my first street bike and has been apart for 11yrs. Im hoping to have to running after work today. I believe the oroginal wiring configuration was right just not hooked into the bike correctly. Goong to redo the wiring after many emails woth tcro who has been a hige help. Thanks again.
Will post up more later.
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Wow I did not realize this bike has been apart for 11 years...
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Its Alive Its Alive.
Well after many hours of trying to figure out the wiring demons, we got the bike fired up for the first time in 11yrs. Shes running a bit rough but havent had a chance to actually sync and tune the carbs. More tomorrow.
But it ran and idled on its own for quite some time and warmed up.
Noticed some dash lights were out and doesnt seem like my temp gauge or fuel gauge works. So ill have to see if the wires arent hooked up. Already had part of the dash off and had to reconnect the headlight.
Defiantly gotta give it another once over to check every bolt and cotter pin.
New rubbers will be going on when i have the time to take off the wheels and get them to the shop. Already have some Avon strom 3ds for it.
Trottle seems to be sticking pretty badly gonna order a new cable for it just for that piece of mind.(had my trottle stick on my cr500 wide open over desert whoops. Not fun).
Things ive already done to the bike. New 26.5" cee baily windshield. Odessey extreme battery. Changed the fluids through out.
Cant wait to finally get it driving down the street. Gonna be a cross country bike soon. Another one saved from a dusty stationary life.
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Also added two 12v outlet to charge my phone for gps and to be able to charge a sena blue tooth unit. Hide the outlets in the tool tray above the battery
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quick up date. Bike would idle but as soon as you touched the throttle it would die so i pulled the carbs again and gave them another full clean. Got the bike running now still have some problems. It will shut off when under hard throttle. Stall out and die. Got it running enough to hand off to a friend who will get it running correctly. Then gonna redo the fork with new springs and maybe emulators. Then get rubbers on it and ready to ride. I hope.
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6 monthes ago, you got the bike to fire.... but it wouldn't run right at that time...
Now, after cleaning carbs somewhat, it fired again, and ran poorly....
I have to ask, did you remove that tank, dump that turpentine that used to be fuel, and dompletely flush and rinse that tank out.... or did you just try to start the bike after "adding" some gas to that tank....
Start over, and get that tank cleaned before anything else.
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Ok finally got the bike running good. End problem and probably the problem the whole time ended up being previous owners fault. The two larger t-fitting on the carbs that used to run into the carcoal canisiter(i believe) were capped. The bike would run and rev great for the first 2mins after it started. But would start to cut out like it was straved for gas. We eliminated the gas tank by using a fuel bottle and still had the same problem so knew it wasnt the petcock. We then decieded that the carb wasnt venting properly and possible creating a vaccum within the carb. Took the little caps off and ran great.
Ran it around town for 30mins and all is well. No oil leaks. Tranny shifts great. Gonna pull the forks this weekend if i have time and hand them over to a friend to rebuild and install emulators. Now i gotta call the dmv and hope the previous owner wasnt lying about it being on non op. Hope they dont try to screw me.
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Did you put this time and money in the bike without a title?
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Ok finally got the bike running good. End problem and probably the problem the whole time ended up being previous owners fault. The two larger t-fitting on the carbs that used to run into the carcoal canisiter(i believe) were capped. The bike would run and rev great for the first 2mins after it started. But would start to cut out like it was straved for gas. We eliminated the gas tank by using a fuel bottle and still had the same problem so knew it wasnt the petcock. We then decieded that the carb wasnt venting properly and possible creating a vaccum within the carb. Took the little caps off and ran great.
Ran it around town for 30mins and all is well. No oil leaks. Tranny shifts great. Gonna pull the forks this weekend if i have time and hand them over to a friend to rebuild and install emulators. Now i gotta call the dmv and hope the previous owner wasnt lying about it being on non op. Hope they dont try to screw me.
Ahhhh.... the bowl vent plugged syndrome..... I see now.
And yes, those are vents, OEM condition has a clear plastic line from each, that runs upwards, and along the spine of the frame, and the hoses terminate up there just ahead of the battery box, on the frame...
There are metal clips up there hat hold them in place normally..
I've seen them completely clogged by spider egg pods before, and its tough to see all the time..
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Gpink. No it has a title but in california if someone doesnt register a vehicle as non-op when not in use it will have back fees. So the preveous owner told me it was on non-op but hes been wrong about a lot of things so far so we will see.
Currently im waiting on some fork parts. And a thermostat housing oring that started to leak when i bumped the t-stat. And some dash light bulbs.
Had some heart breaking moment recently with the bike. Took it for a quick spin after getting the carb probably all delt with. Heard this awful noise coming from the top end. Like a metalic rattling sound. And figured the worse. Took the head off to check if something was broken or loose in there and all was good. Turned out to be a loose cover that was installed to block of the "reed valve". Checked the valves while i was in there. Looks like preveous owner checked them with a flat head screwdriver.
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Latest update. Got all coolant leaks taken care of. Got the fork rebuilt with racetech emulators and new springs. Took it for a little ride around town in its torn down state and all went well. Now time to redo the wiring for the stick coils to a finished product and put the body work back on for the first time since ive had it.
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Well the resurrection is conplete. I just drove 40miles to bishop, ca to register the bike. Hope they dont try to screw me. Ill try and figure out how to post pictures soon
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well time to test my work. Got the bike all prepped for a 1500-2000mile round trip ride.
Who can point me in the right direction of how to post some pictures from an iPhone.