Author Topic: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech  (Read 22735 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2011, 11:52:54 AM »
Well, don't we?   :rotflmao:

I was thinking about this on the way into town just now and thought if this is going to be contested in court the best form of action would be to be polite and not admit anything.  Then just go to court and have fun.  It would be costly to retain a lawyer but it would be worth it, I think.
I woke up this morning thinking about going for a ride. I guess my ticket will be in the mail box Monday.

badcop621

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2011, 01:05:23 PM »
If you have it anywhere inside of the vehicle , whether it's plugged up or not, it is illegal. Basically the code section states "accessible to a power source". I always tell people that their ok if it's locked in the glove box or trunk. Besides, they don't work very good anyway.


So is mere posession of the radar detector illegal? Or does it have to be "installed". What is the definition of installed? Is it illegal to have it setting on my dash not plugged in and turned off? Does posession equal intent? Brings us back to is intent the definition of illegal/

Offline bbroj

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2011, 01:13:24 PM »
I guess it hard for those not in Law Enforcement to understand where I`m coming from. 

Enlighten us, please. We are largely an open minded group, but to this point, at least in my opinion, you have offered nothing more than your intrepretation of an equipment code as reason/defense for writing tickets for someone using the equipment that came stock (legally) on their vehicle to communicate with other drivers. None of the codes you have provided say anything to support your intrepretation of "illegal flashing" of headlights by the operator, it is an equipment code. Period.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2011, 01:16:22 PM »
46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.

It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or LIGHT SIGNAL, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.

Signal.  Not signals.

you really need a better grasp of the english language, and a better education on reading and understanding legal statute (my wife is a retired attourney, and even she had a chuckle reading your multiple statements of interpretations). Please discuss this with the nearest Commonwealth attourney (a Commonwealth Attourney is both a District and/or a Circuit Court atty...there is no difference, they are the same as a DA in any other state..), or better yet, Virginia State police.

the word "signal" (not plural) refers to the "act" of "signaling" your intent, not the actual equipment used in the activity. Here again, YOU are making an interpretaion based on YOUR belief that you understand the language, which you clearly do not. You would be cut to shreds in court for your "definition".

No where else in the Va state code book does it say anything else about what type of vehicles are allowed to flash their lights other than motorcycles. SO, it states that emergency vehicles are the only types of vehicles that can do this. Do you need a special device to flash your lights? NO -- The driver can manually do it on any regular vehicle.

If a driver flashes their headlights, whether it be Manually or use a Special device to do it, and they`re not operating an emergency vehicle and have emergency lights activated when they do it, they are in violation.
Where is the common sense that everyone seems to lack these days?

again, YOUR interpretation. and a wrong one at that. The ONLY VEHICALS that are allowed to have "LIGHTS THAT FLASH CONTINUALLY" by means of an INSTALLED MECHANICAL DEVICE are emergency vehicals, and motorcycles (motorcycle flash rate is defined in the specific bike statute).
There is NO LAW SPECIFYING MANUALLY FLASHING ONES HEADLIGHTS FOR ANY other VEHICAL.

I and most of us HAVE COMMON SENSE, and likewise we CAN read and COMPREHEND the letter of the law, without being blinded by attemting force the reason you seem to be in belief of in carrying out YOUR INTERPRETATION of true law. Every single vehical on the road today has a "mechanical device" to switch from high beam to low beam and back again. Your reasoning alone would have EVERY VEHICAL in violation of Va law, by simply having a high lo beam switch. Where is your common sense?
Your credibility is seriously in jeapordy by your statements so far.

you even made the statement it was "ok" to flash to pass someone already...

My post was only pertaining to cars/trucks. There is only one time that drivers are legally Ok to flash their lights and thats when they get behind someone in the left lane that wont get over, and then they can only flash them ONCE. I usually dont write the ticket if they flash only one time(flashing them at someone you know, etc). Its the ones that flash their lights multiple times is the ones I get.

.... However, any person, in any vehicle, Not Motorcycle,  can make their lights flash in this manner. This is when the violation of law occurs. The operator is to blame and not the cars fault.

The question that I would then myself would be is "WHY is the operator of this vehicle making his lights flash". Thats when my interpretation comes into play.

While I do agree, that this is not the most violent offense in the world, its still an offense here in Va. I have heard most things about the police(Harassing people*************), mostly from those who have gotten tickets and think that the law doesnt apply to them.

Police Officers do what they are hired to do, Enforce laws. Some like it, Some dont. Thats Life. We cant make every single person happy in every situation, although I do try.

mayb a better wording inlieu of "not the most violent offense in the world" would be "not the most serious crime", your seeming to link a simple moving violation with something tantemount to a Felony.... very disturbing...even in casual conversation, and a lot can be construed from this as to the outcome.
Oh, I have not had a speeding violation anywhere for over 25 years, personally I don't have a reason to speed carelessly, and risk High insurance rates on a bike that it will do in excess of 150 mph...
or any vehical for that matter.

to get back to the origin and intent of the posting, flashing lights at oncoming traffic to force them to slow down accomplishes fully the INTENT slowing speeders down, period.  The speed trap, which is clearly applied to repeatedly enforce the offense of breaking a law, does nothing to make driving safer for anyone, and the only affected person is the one with the ticket.
The reasoning vs. the outcome differ greatly.

I'd be curious to see what you would do, seeing a vehical with a sign mounted to the front bumper below the line of sight of the driver of the vehical so as to insure his visual path of the road was unobstructed, reading "slow down, there is a cop ahead"....I think I know the answer already....
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 02:19:52 PM by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Cholla

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2011, 01:30:53 PM »
Badcop axed how is radar an illegal search. Can you tap a phone without a warrant? No, and a wire tap is an electronic search. So is radar. The 4th amendment says I am free to travel without fear of ANY search without cause. I am not speeding (being observed breaking the law) yet I am being searched. Radar is phishing for evidence which as a LEO you should know is illegal.
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Offline jworth

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2011, 01:39:43 PM »
I would be interested to know badcop has ever had to appear in court in the case of an individual who has contested such a flashing light ticket.  Until/unless he has then he is by definition writing tickets based solely on his own interpretation.

Offline Outback_Jon

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2011, 03:06:49 PM »
If you have it anywhere inside of the vehicle , whether it's plugged up or not, it is illegal. Basically the code section states "accessible to a power source". I always tell people that their ok if it's locked in the glove box or trunk. Besides, they don't work very good anyway.

I have a cigarette lighter adapter in my trunk, so by your definition, locking the radar detector in my trunk would also be illegal.  (My glove box has one as well)  But you just stated that would be OK.

An attorney just out of law school would rip your 'interpretations' to shreds.  Heck, the 'jailhouse lawyers' that I deal with would present a more convincing argument.

I'm in Corrections.  Our reports have to justify the charges we present.  (Think a supporting deposition on steroids instead of just the traffic citation form)  If I submitted a report trying to use a justification like you have, my supervisor would throw it back at me, if he didn't just rip it up. 

VirginiaJim - you've got two LEOs involved in this thread. 
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2011, 05:11:59 PM »
I kinda figured yours from the avatar.... ;)
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »
Badcop axed how is radar an illegal search. Can you tap a phone without a warrant? No, and a wire tap is an electronic search. So is radar. The 4th amendment says I am free to travel without fear of ANY search without cause. I am not speeding (being observed breaking the law) yet I am being searched. Radar is phishing for evidence which as a LEO you should know is illegal.

Note to all....this is morphing into something a bit different than what the OP originally brought forth.  Let's guide it back on to the flasher theme and not the Constitutionalities of using radar, lasers, vascar, or otherwise.  That's a whole nother thread.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2011, 05:23:55 PM »
We don't have a flasher smilie.

badcop621

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2011, 05:30:38 PM »
This is good stuff. I made some phone calls to friends and they have charged the code section below also in the same situation. Notice it does not Say anything about DAY or NIGHT.

46.2-1034. When dimming headlights required.

Whenever a vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead, the operator of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights so aimed that glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver or dim the headlights, if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever the driver of any motor vehicle approaches from the rear or follows within 200 feet of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, the driver shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights.

What do ya think??


I knew about this one but I never would write a ticket for it since is was a moving violation with demerit points. The other code section was just an equipment vilolation with no points (Giving people somewhat of a break). Maybe I`ll have to start charging this now.

Offline gPink

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2011, 05:34:49 PM »
So you're saying I can get written up for following code?

Offline bbroj

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2011, 05:44:16 PM »
That code seems to deal with failure to dim, causing distraction or reduced visability for the oncoming driver. I'm not sure how that plays into ticketing for flashing lights to communicate a situation. Again, if I were facing a driver who failed to dim their lights, I would flash mine as a reminder that they had theirs on. I might do it repeatedly if they didn't get the message.
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badcop621

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2011, 05:59:12 PM »
Why would go from having your lights on low beam(daytime running lights) or off To flashing your hi beams when, According to this, the high beams shouldnt even be on to begin with within the stated measurments?

That code seems to deal with failure to dim, causing distraction or reduced visability for the oncoming driver. I'm not sure how that plays into ticketing for flashing lights to communicate a situation. Again, if I were facing a driver who failed to dim their lights, I would flash mine as a reminder that they had theirs on. I might do it repeatedly if they didn't get the message.

badcop621

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2011, 06:01:18 PM »
How would you be following code if you flashed(turned on) your Hi beams within the 500ft allowance? If turned them on at all within the 500 ft, as stated in the code section, you are in violation.

So you're saying I can get written up for following code?

Offline Cholla

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2011, 06:23:05 PM »
Flashing lights to warn approaching drivers is NOT a violation of the statute because the lights are wired to flash BOTH high beams at the same time not to alternately flash one side then the other as emergency vehicles do. Writing a ticket for operating the high beams within the specified distance of another vehicle is warranted. A citation for interfering with an investigation is admitting the officer isn't running radar for safety but for revenue generation.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2011, 06:23:55 PM »
It seems a somewhat subjective call to tell if I was 500' or 600'.

Offline bbroj

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2011, 06:24:29 PM »
Why would go from having your lights on low beam(daytime running lights) or off To flashing your hi beams when, According to this, the high beams shouldnt even be on to begin with within the stated measurments?

I was refering to a night time driving situation, because as you mentioned, the code has no reference to time of day. I would flash my high beams, as I stated, to remind an oncoming driver to dim their lights if they failed to do so. I don't know about Va, but this is common practice and commonly understood where I drive. If I were to flash my lights during the day, even within the stated measurements, the glare/reduced visibility for the oncoming driver would be a non issue, the code is moot.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2011, 06:30:07 PM »
This is good stuff. I made some phone calls to friends and they have charged the code section below also in the same situation. Notice it does not Say anything about DAY or NIGHT.46.2-1034. When dimming headlights required.

Whenever a vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead, the operator of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights so aimed that glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver or dim the headlights, if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever the driver of any motor vehicle approaches from the rear or follows within 200 feet of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, the driver shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights.
What do ya think??

I knew about this one but I never would write a ticket for it since is was a moving violation with demerit points. The other code section was just an equipment vilolation with no points (Giving people somewhat of a break). Maybe I`ll have to start charging this now.

good luck with that, tell us all how it works out for you...... :hitfan:

it's clear by the verbiage, that the law has been changed as time passed, to include a "modern vehical" more commonly known as one that "doesn't have antique plates" affixed to it....
"Dimmer" (rheostat) switches on single beam headlight equiped vehicals were old hat from the late 20's on, so this tells just how atiquated the law you are quoting here is, or should I phrase better as how far back it goes.... :deadhorse:

I would also fair well challenging 10 people to guestimate 200, 350, or 500 feet on any road, day or night....yeah it's law, but enforce it, right...... ::) :rotflmao:

it's clearly evident the law quoted above IS related to night driving by the initial preface that preceeds the content :
"vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead..."

you can really stretch things out in any manner you want to, it all goes by the letter of the law.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Flashing headlights/freedom of speech
« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2011, 06:33:21 PM »
That's really a stretch and I think that any judge would see it that way.  You do realize that a large number of motorcyclists run with their bright lights on during the day, me included, for visibility.  If you decide to enforce during the day then you would be writing them and me tickets and all this just because your upset someone is warning about a radar setup?  I'm beginning to wonder about you and abuse of power.  I'm trying to take a neutral position here but in bringing up that statute, which is clearly for nighttime usage of headlights and what the writers in Richmond presumed, is showing your true colors.  And how the heck can you tell which lights are on bright these days with everyone running hot whites and non-dot off-road lamps?
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