Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: jworth on October 13, 2011, 10:22:51 AM
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Anybody else read this? Will be interesting to see what happens.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/)
One guy suing the state of Florida because he was ticketed for flashing his headlights to warn other traffic of a speed trap. The guy contends it's his freedom of speech to do so.
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He is not aiding people in breaking the law, he is getting people to slow down. The police are proving speed traps are not about safety but about revenue. And it could be argued the use of radar is a violation of the 4th, searching without cause. In TX radar has been outlawed for just that reason
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In TX radar has been outlawed for just that reason
Maybe where you live, they do radar here constantly. I got nailed for it last month.
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I think it will be an interesting court case....
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He is not aiding people in breaking the law, he is getting people to slow down. The police are proving speed traps are not about safety but about revenue. And it could be argued the use of radar is a violation of the 4th, searching without cause. In TX radar has been outlawed for just that reason
Not true and I'm sure there are some TX LEO's that will respond any minute.
I got a speeding ticket in my cage several months ago by a Ft. Worth police officer.
One of our crew got one on the bike from a county constable on our way to Utopia to eat breakfast before we headed off to the Three Twisted Sisters. (At least they let her pay off her $600 ticket with installments.)
Both were via radar, not laser.
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I think it will be an interesting court case....
^^^^that. And the case is getting huge attention here in FL
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Another thing, how did the Trooper know he was flashing his lights? I mean you usually do it after you have passed them so how would they know. I must have missed something.
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Some states allow this and some don't. Virginia LEO's shouldn't ticket a person doing that here.
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(At least they let her pay off her $600 ticket with installments.)
Both were via radar, not laser.
$600,,, what the hell was she doing to get a $600 ticket?
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+1
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$600,,, what the hell was she doing to get a $600 ticket?
My question too? How high was the front wheel off the pavement when they nailed her?
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$600,,, what the hell was she doing to get a $600 ticket?
Decided she didn't like being second, quick twist of the wrist, passed the leader by crossing the double yellow, 108 in a 65. Coulda gone to jail, but she was polite and respectful. He told her that the DPS were out in force that weekend and that she and her friends needed to be aware.
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(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/cop1.jpg)
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Comrade:
One guy suing the state of Florida because he was ticketed for flashing his headlights to warn other traffic of a speed trap. The guy contends it's his freedom of speech to do so.
'Roud here I flash my lights for a variety of reasons. Living on a curvy road in the mountains, it's often to warn other drivers of junk on the road. Slow moving tractor, herd of big horn sheep licking salt off the road, fallen tree limb, minor rock slide...
Sad that we may be subject to a ticket for warning fellow drivers/riders of potential road hazards.... whatever it may be.
Rick
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Not true and I'm sure there are some TX LEO's that will respond any minute.
I got a speeding ticket in my cage several months ago by a Ft. Worth police officer.
One of our crew got one on the bike from a county constable on our way to Utopia to eat breakfast before we headed off to the Three Twisted Sisters. (At least they let her pay off her $600 ticket with installments.)
Both were via radar, not laser.
just going by what a friend who lives in Plano told me.
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Playing Devil's advocate here....I don't flash my lights for LEO's using radar/laser/Vascar/stop watch/abacus for two reasons. The person they stop may be convinced to slow down a bit, preventing something catestrophic from happening down the road. Another reason is that the person they stop may be wanted for something and this is their ticket to jail. I do flash my lights at oncoming traffic if there is a hidden issue around the corner like an accident or debris in the road.
Any law can be questioned about constitutionality by someone through the court system assuming time and money are available. Headlight flashing for radar traps has been brought to the courts all over the country in different states with differing results. I don't think that any of them made it to the Supreme court, though.
I still think it would be an interesting case to watch, though.
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Another thing, how did the Trooper know he was flashing his lights? I mean you usually do it after you have passed them so how would they know. I must have missed something.
What he said.
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Good point. I did a little searching on the web for this and in some places the LEOs actually are staged to see if someone is going to flash their lights. So they have another cruiser somewhere else facing the traffic.
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revenuers
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Or just frustrated the fish are getting away...
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I'd have to go back and re-read the story, but I thought it was a second LEO who saw the lights and wrote the ticket. Either way, I'm mostly with Jim, although I will try to warn motorcyclists, sometimes...(not squids)
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So if I meet a LEO while on my bike and proceed to pat the top of my helmet; is that illegal?
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It's the same thing I guess. Some of these statutes don't specify headlight flashing, head patting, arm waving, nose picking as far as what's considered interference with a LEO. If they want to stop you for warning (using any technique) oncoming drivers they can do what they want regarding writing a ticket. It's then up to the courts to decide whether or not it's a valid stop/ticket whatever. You can stomp up and down and yell at the Gods it ain't right, but it still comes down to what the courts decide in interpreting the law in the end. Oh, and having a very good lawyer helps as well.
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For me, its all abotu the time and place the speed trap is being ran. In a school zone, no problem. Anyone over 20 should get the ticket. There is a section, near my house, that runs through a National Guard airfiled. The road has 12 foot fences on each side, and no entrance or exit for several miles. Speed limit is 30. The LEO's use this area as a revenue generator or tax on working people. I always warn people here.
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In Texas they use radar all the time everywhere. When I lived in Dallas you couldn't go anywhere without a cop sticking a radar gun up your ass. I got sick of it. I also flashed my lights all the time to warn people about the traps. It's all about revenue and has nothing to do with safety.
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I`m a LEO here in VA and I have written that ticket several times and will continue to write for it. Most of the time its when I come upon an area where another LEO in running radar and I get flashed by the people trying to warn me. VA law states that the only vehicles that are allowed to have flashing headlights are law enforcement and Marked Fire/Rescue vehicles.
I`ve had people to tell me that that they weren`t flashing their lights when I clearly saw them. I then tell them that since they weren`t flashing them, there`s obviously a mechanical problem with their wiring or switch causing them to flash. Then I write them a defective equipment ticket also and tell them to take it to a shop to get it repaired and bring proof to court. Its funny how most of them headlights ONLY seem to flash on their own right after the pass a Police car running radar.
Also Cholla, how is running Radar an Unlawful search?? Never heard that one before ???
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To me, it seems like "flashing headlights", as in a wired option like modulators or emergency vehicle lights, is different than "flashing your lights" by manually using the controller. I would argue that one in court if it came to it. If that is not the case, I could theoretically be ticketed for the occasional flash of my brights when going for my turn signal or wipers on the same control handle. I'm with the freedom of speech crowd. Would you write the ticket for someone flashing oncoming drivers to warn of an accident/debris ahead? It's communication, nothing more.
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I`m a LEO here in VA and I have written that ticket several times and will continue to write for it. Most of the time its when I come upon an area where another LEO in running radar and I get flashed by the people trying to warn me. VA law states that the only vehicles that are allowed to have flashing headlights are law enforcement and Marked Fire/Rescue vehicles. I`ve had people to tell me that that they weren`t flashing their lights when I clearly saw them. I then tell them that since they weren`t flashing them, there`s obviously a mechanical problem with their wiring or switch causing them to flash. Then I write them a defective equipment ticket also and tell them to take it to a shop to get it repaired and bring proof to court. Its funny how most of them headlights ONLY seem to flash on their own right after the pass a Police car running radar.
Also Cholla, how is running Radar an Unlawful search?? Never heard that one before ???
hmmmmm.... very interesting interpretation of the statute.... as a Virginia resident, and avid motorcyclist, I hope never to meet you on the road, lest we all will be in court with Tom McGrath, Va. motorcycle lawyer, and get "things" clarified....."
I do believe the law is regarding "alternatly" (i.e. left/right) flashing headlights, and I know that headlight modulators here in Va ARE legal...any difference?
Motorcycles may be equipped with means of modulating the high beam of their headlights between high and low beam at a rate of 200 to 280 flashes per minute. Such headlights shall not be so modulated during periods when headlights would ordinarily be required to be lighted under § 46.2-1030.
also...ever ticket someone for tail light flashing???
Comment: Our office has in the past received calls from motorcyclists who were pulled over due to the fact that they have a modulating headlight. Modulating headlights are legal in Virginia so long as they comply with this statute. As of July 1, 2009 modulating brake lights are legal in Virginia as well so long as they do not modulate for a period exceeding 5 seconds, which most do not.
Turning light off/on I would construe as a "warning", but flashing from low to high beam on a vehical that always is running lights (cannot turn off) is a stretch of the law again, anyone can issue a "road warning", a greting to a person you know", a "highbeam flash" to alert a motorist you intend to pass, or simply because you wish to flash them. I would gladly challenge that in court, the trouble is that the fine is not commensurate with the costs and effort someone would incurr attempting to fight it. Apathetic aquiessence in effect.
so I think daytime flashing is ok....but flashing at night is another thing...illegal?
sad to hear someone would actually slap a ticket for that reason.... bad cop...no donut.
http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/statutes.aspx (http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/statutes.aspx)
http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/home.aspx (http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/home.aspx)
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Yes, that is the real question- where does the legal communication end? Can we talk to each other and say that there is a LEO on 'such and such' a road or would that too be an illegal communication? Can we talk about how fast a particular motorcycle goes or should that too be an illegal communication? Yep, the slippery slope applies here for sure.
Seeing as flashing headlights does not cause any crime to be committed, I would think the courts will have to back the freedom of speech side of things. That said, I agree with you Jim that it will be an interesting thing to watch go through the legal system and see how higher courts comment this issue assuming they issue a finding.
Brian
It's the same thing I guess. Some of these statutes don't specify headlight flashing, head patting, arm waving, nose picking as far as what's considered interference with a LEO. If they want to stop you for warning (using any technique) oncoming drivers they can do what they want regarding writing a ticket. It's then up to the courts to decide whether or not it's a valid stop/ticket whatever. You can stomp up and down and yell at the Gods it ain't right, but it still comes down to what the courts decide in interpreting the law in the end. Oh, and having a very good lawyer helps as well.
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The agencies writing tickets for "having flashing lights" really do reenforce the idea that it really is about revenue and resume' enhancement. It is really just a cop trying to throw his/her weight around, IMHO. It certainly does nothing to command respect, just resentment. And cops wonder why they get little respect. Duh.
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My post was only pertaining to cars/trucks. There is only one time that drivers are legally Ok to flash their lights and thats when they get behind someone in the left lane that wont get over, and then they can only flash them ONCE. I usually dont write the ticket if they flash only one time(flashing them at someone you know, etc). Its the ones that flash their lights multiple times is the ones I get.
46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.
It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or light signal, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.
46.2-1029.1. Flashing of headlights on certain vehicles.
Emergency vehicles as defined in subsection C of § 46.2-920 may be equipped with the means to flash their headlights when their warning lights are activated if (i) the headlights are wired to allow either the high beam or low beam to flash, but not both, and (ii) the headlight system includes a switch or device which prevents flashing of headlights when headlights are required to be lighted under § 46.2-1030
hmmmmm.... very interesting interpretation of the statute.... as a Virginia resident, and avid motorcyclist, I hope never to meet you on the road, lest we all will be in court with Tom McGrath, Va. motorcycle lawyer, and get "things" clarified....."
I do believe the law is regarding "alternatly" (i.e. left/right) flashing headlights, and I know that headlight modulators here in Va ARE legal...any difference?
Motorcycles may be equipped with means of modulating the high beam of their headlights between high and low beam at a rate of 200 to 280 flashes per minute. Such headlights shall not be so modulated during periods when headlights would ordinarily be required to be lighted under § 46.2-1030.
also...ever ticket someone for tail light flashing???
Comment: Our office has in the past received calls from motorcyclists who were pulled over due to the fact that they have a modulating headlight. Modulating headlights are legal in Virginia so long as they comply with this statute. As of July 1, 2009 modulating brake lights are legal in Virginia as well so long as they do not modulate for a period exceeding 5 seconds, which most do not.
Turning light off/on I would construe as a "warning", but flashing from low to high beam on a vehical that always is running lights (cannot turn off) is a stretch of the law again, anyone can issue a "road warning", a greting to a person you know", a "highbeam flash" to alert a motorist you intend to pass, or simply because you wish to flash them. I would gladly challenge that in court, the trouble is that the fine is not commensurate with the costs and effort someone would incurr attempting to fight it. Apathetic aquiessence in effect.
so I think daytime flashing is ok....but flashing at night is another thing...illegal?
sad to hear someone would actually slap a ticket for that reason.... bad cop...no donut.
http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/statutes.aspx (http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/statutes.aspx)
http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/home.aspx (http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/home.aspx)
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I`m a LEO here in VA and I have written that ticket several times and will continue to write for it. Most of the time its when I come upon an area where another LEO in running radar and I get flashed by the people trying to warn me. VA law states that the only vehicles that are allowed to have flashing headlights are law enforcement and Marked Fire/Rescue vehicles.
I`ve had people to tell me that that they weren`t flashing their lights when I clearly saw them. I then tell them that since they weren`t flashing them, there`s obviously a mechanical problem with their wiring or switch causing them to flash. Then I write them a defective equipment ticket also and tell them to take it to a shop to get it repaired and bring proof to court. Its funny how most of them headlights ONLY seem to flash on their own right after the pass a Police car running radar.
Also Cholla, how is running Radar an Unlawful search?? Never heard that one before ???
While I don't flash my headlights as was stated above, everything I've read concerning VA law on this says it's not illegal.
Here's one article that I've found...
http://www2.staffordcountysun.com/news/2009/jul/21/blankenship_ok_to_warn_of_speed_traps_ahead-ar-292281/ (http://www2.staffordcountysun.com/news/2009/jul/21/blankenship_ok_to_warn_of_speed_traps_ahead-ar-292281/)
You can and will interpret the law as you see fit. Nothing wrong with that for the most part, it's gray areas where you may be interpreting a little differently than I would. That's why we have lawyers and courts to decide such matters.
I can certainly understand how you would feel about the matter, though.
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Excellent post. It's all up to interpretation. Thats what the courts are for. Regardless what's happens in court, whether is upheld or dismissed, I'll continue to write tickets for it. Each situation is different. I agree with the Article below about the "Momentary FLASH of lights" . I just go after the ones that keep on flashing them rapidly.
While I don't flash my headlights as was stated above, everything I've read concerning VA law on this says it's not illegal.
Here's one article that I've found...
http://www2.staffordcountysun.com/news/2009/jul/21/blankenship_ok_to_warn_of_speed_traps_ahead-ar-292281/ (http://www2.staffordcountysun.com/news/2009/jul/21/blankenship_ok_to_warn_of_speed_traps_ahead-ar-292281/)
You can and will interpret the law as you see fit. Nothing wrong with that for the most part, it's gray areas where you may be interpreting a little differently than I would. That's why we have lawyers and courts to decide such matters.
I can certainly understand how you would feel about the matter, though.
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Excellent post. It's all up to interpretation. Thats what the courts are for. Regardless what's happens in court, whether is upheld or dismissed, I'll continue to write tickets for it, even if its to same person 10 mins later for commiting the same offense. Each situation is different.
Really? Guess your name says it all.
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46.2-1029.1. Flashing of headlights on certain vehicles.
Emergency vehicles as defined in subsection C of § 46.2-920 may be equipped with the means to flash their headlights when their warning lights are activated if (i) the headlights are wired to allow either the high beam or low beam to flash, but not both, and (ii) the headlight system includes a switch or device which prevents flashing of headlights when headlights are required to be lighted under § 46.2-1030
According to your interpretation, all motor vehicles with a headlight switch are illegal, as the statute states it's illegal to have the means to flash headlights except for emergency vehicles. So you had best start pulling over every car and truck, whether they are flashing lights or not, to write them a ticket, as virtually all cars and trucks do have an on/off switch. That is why it's bogus for you to write those BS tickets, and either force a day in court, or just pay out money that most people work hard to earn. It comes back to that respect/resentment issue.
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So keep on writing those BS tickets, cuz you apparently have the power to basically harass. It just lowers the public opinion of police another few notches for each one you write. And shows a lot about what kind of person you have turned out to be.
My .02.
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Mod hat on.....keep this civil, please. I do love dissension, though, as long as it's opinions thrown back and forth. Once we resort to name calling it degenerates.
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The code section is from the Code of Virginia and not my interpretation. The code section applies to Emergency Vehicles ONLY and in case you live in a box somewhere, you`ve have to had noticed that police cars, fire trucks, Rescue Squad vehicles have their headlights flashing when their red/blue lights are on. This is not magic by no means. These vehicles are equipped with a special mechanical device to make their lights flash this way. Ordinary off the lot vehicles do not have this device. However, any person, in any vehicle, Not Motorcycle, can make their lights flash in this manner. This is when the violation of law occurs. The operator is to blame and not the cars fault.
The question that I would then myself would be is "WHY is the operator of this vehicle making his lights flash". Thats when my interpretation comes into play.
While I do agree, that this is not the most violent offense in the world, its still an offense here in Va.
I have heard most things about the police(Harassing people*************), mostly from those who have gotten tickets and think that the law doesnt apply to them.
Police Officers do what they are hired to do, Enforce laws. Some like it, Some dont. Thats Life. We cant make every single person happy in every situation, although I do try.
46.2-1029.1. Flashing of headlights on certain vehicles.
Emergency vehicles as defined in subsection C of § 46.2-920 may be equipped with the means to flash their headlights when their warning lights are activated if (i) the headlights are wired to allow either the high beam or low beam to flash, but not both, and (ii) the headlight system includes a switch or device which prevents flashing of headlights when headlights are required to be lighted under § 46.2-1030
According to your interpretation, all motor vehicles with a headlight switch are illegal, as the statute states it's illegal to have the means to flash headlights except for emergency vehicles. So you had best start pulling over every car and truck, whether they are flashing lights or not, to write them a ticket, as virtually all cars and trucks do have an on/off switch. That is why it's bogus for you to write those BS tickets, and either force a day in court, or just pay out money that most people work hard to earn. It comes back to that respect/resentment issue.
I'm thinkin' it's mostly an ego thing**********************
So keep on writing those BS tickets, cuz you apparently have the power to basically harass. It just lowers the public opinion of police another few notches for each one you write. And shows a lot about what kind of person you have turned out to be.
My .02.
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I really have to chuckle about the answers given here from an LEO, while pondering the thoughts of what is actually being done.
First off, the LEO on duty, is out there to enforce current laws, speeding being one of them.
Why do people get arrested for speeding? Because it is dangerous, and causes undue hazard on those driving on the same roads... Ok, I buy that, and have no problem with that reasoning... in fact I can say when you see one of those "speed zone machines" on the side of the road giving a readout of speed, people tend to slow down...mission accomplished.
Also, when an LEO is on the side of the road, VISIBLE, it tends to accomplish this end result also.... people slow down. But I have to say that hiding in wait, in a position of blind opportunity with the intent of specifically ticketing...while hiding in wait, is just sleazy... now someone flashes thier lights and the would be speeder (maybe he's doing 5 mph over, who knows)slows down, IS'NT THIS THE EXACT REASON THE LAW IS BEING ENFORCED??????
to maintain safe speeds on the highway? or is it simply to arrest and ticket those breaking the law?
difficult question? I don't think so, the intent is to have everyone travel at the speed limit....but the activity is only to enforce this when someone breaks the rule, it does nothing to prevent it from being broken. It would go a lot further towards being succesful in slowing people down to simply be seen, and have a presence.
presence means everything here, don't think so? Watch people slow down when a car is pulled over on the roadside, and as soon as the people realize the LEO is occupied writing a ticket, they all punch it thinking they are free and clear to speed now.... but have a cop sit on the road, just sitting there, watch the caution level for those drivers peak, and speeds reduce "just to make sure" they don't get pinched...
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I'm still confused as to your interpretation. My car is not wired with police style, alternating, flashing lights and therfore not illegal under the code being cited. How does my flashing my lights manually turn them from legal to illegal? If you are claiming "interfering with a police investigation", how? Flashing my lights has no effect on the function of radar or an officers ability to use the radar, therefore I am not interfering with the investigation. I may or may not affect the outcome of the investigation, but I am not interfering with the investigation itself.
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The code section is from the Code of Virginia and not my interpretation. The code section applies to Emergency Vehicles ONLY and in case you live in a box somewhere, you`ve have to had noticed that police cars, fire trucks, Rescue Squad vehicles have their headlights flashing when their red/blue lights are on. This is not magic by no means. These vehicles are equipped with a special mechanical device to make their lights flash this way. Ordinary off the lot vehicles do not have this device. However, any person, in any vehicle, Not Motorcycle, can make their lights flash in this manner. This is when the violation of law occurs. The operator is to blame and not the cars fault.
EVERY emergency vehicle I have seen with "flashing headlights" has headlights that flash ALTERNATELY. (Since you're a LEO, too, that means LEFT then RIGHT then LEFT again - I know the big words can be hard :rotflmao: ) Or do a pattern of ALTERNATE and SIMULTANEOUS flash.
The headlights of cars and motorcycles are not wired to do this. And therefore, it is not a violation of the statute you are claiming. Quite simply, your interpretation is wrong, as the statute specifies "wiring".
Now, if someone wired a wig-wag onto their civilian car, that is another issue, and one that IS in violation of that statute.
Ask your local DA about it. I'd bet he/she agrees with me on the interpretation of that statute. (You may however, be able to cite someone under a different statute.)
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Let me ty to explain this a little better without breaking out the crayons.
EMERGENCY VEHICLE - As stated in the code section are the ONLY vehicle`s in VA allowed to have flashing/wig-wag headlights and the only vehicle`s allowed to use them on the public highway. Except the code section that says you can flash them once to get the person in the left lane to move so you can pass.
REGULAR VEHICLE - NOT allowed to be equipped with such Flashing Lights Device, Therefore making it ILLEGAL to operate on the public highway with device.
PERSON DRIVING REGULAR VEHICLE, FLASHING ITS LIGHTS and not using them as stated in previous code section. ILLEGAL- REGULAR VEHICLE IS NOT AN EMERGENCY VEHICLE - GET`S CHARGED WITH 46.2-1029.1 - IMPROPER FLASHING OF HEADLIGHTS, since they are not operating an emergency vehicle.
We dont have DA`s here. We have Commonwealth Attorneys if that makes a difference.
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Whats hiding got to do with anything? If your not speeding, then you have nothing to worry about. Also why dont Posted Speed Limit signs slow people down? The signs are there all the time and are visible. ???
I really have to chuckle about the answers given here from an LEO, while pondering the thoughts of what is actually being done.
First off, the LEO on duty, is out there to enforce current laws, speeding being one of them.
Why do people get arrested for speeding? Because it is dangerous, and causes undue hazard on those driving on the same roads... Ok, I buy that, and have no problem with that reasoning... in fact I can say when you see one of those "speed zone machines" on the side of the road giving a readout of speed, people tend to slow down...mission accomplished.
Also, when an LEO is on the side of the road, VISIBLE, it tends to accomplish this end result also.... people slow down. But I have to say that hiding in wait, in a position of blind opportunity with the intent of specifically ticketing...while hiding in wait, is just sleazy... now someone flashes thier lights and the would be speeder (maybe he's doing 5 mph over, who knows)slows down, IS'NT THIS THE EXACT REASON THE LAW IS BEING ENFORCED??????
to maintain safe speeds on the highway? or is it simply to arrest and ticket those breaking the law?
difficult question? I don't think so, the intent is to have everyone travel at the speed limit....but the activity is only to enforce this when someone breaks the rule, it does nothing to prevent it from being broken. It would go a lot further towards being succesful in slowing people down to simply be seen, and have a presence.
presence means everything here, don't think so? Watch people slow down when a car is pulled over on the roadside, and as soon as the people realize the LEO is occupied writing a ticket, they all punch it thinking they are free and clear to speed now.... but have a cop sit on the road, just sitting there, watch the caution level for those drivers peak, and speeds reduce "just to make sure" they don't get pinched...
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As I understand in Mi. if you interfere with a cop enforcing the law by flashing your lights to warn a speed offender then they can issue a ticket for interfering with a law enforcement officer.
Sort of like if the police set up a sting to catch a law breaker and you warn the law breaker you are in big trouble.
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Unless I'm missing something or there is more to the code, it says nothing about allowing a single flash as a signal to pass, or that anything else is a violation. The only place a single flash is refered to is in a previous post, not in quoted code. Unless there is more or other code involved here, it seems like the LEO(s) involved in writing these tickets are extending enforcement to their own intrepretation. No (stock) car or truck has EV style lights, no laws broken. I have yet to see where a law or code that has been posted or refered to here states that a driver MANUALLY flashing his/her lights is a violation of any kind.
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This thread is entertaining. :popcorn:
I once had a girl at Seaside flash her headlights at me... I almost crashed... :yikes: ;) ;D
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Unless I'm missing something or there is more to the code, it says nothing about allowing a single flash as a signal to pass, or that anything else is a violation. The only place a single flash is refered to is in a previous post, not in quoted code. Unless there is more or other code involved here, it seems like the LEO(s) involved in writing these tickets are extending enforcement to their own intrepretation. No (stock) car or truck has EV style lights, no laws broken. I have yet to see where a law or code that has been posted or refered to here states that a driver MANUALLY flashing his/her lights is a violation of any kind.
This.
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No where else in the Va state code book does it say anything else about what type of vehicles are allowed to flash their lights other than motorcycles. SO, it states that emergency vehicles are the only types of vehicles that can do this. Do you need a special device to flash your lights? NO -- The driver can manually do it on any regular vehicle.
If a driver flashes their headlights, whether it be Manually or use a Special device to do it, and they`re not operating an emergency vehicle and have emergency lights activated when they do it, they are in violation.
Where is the common sense that everyone seems to lack these days?
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46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.
It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or LIGHT SIGNAL, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.
Signal. Not signals.
Unless I'm missing something or there is more to the code, it says nothing about allowing a single flash as a signal to pass, or that anything else is a violation. The only place a single flash is refered to is in a previous post, not in quoted code. Unless there is more or other code involved here, it seems like the LEO(s) involved in writing these tickets are extending enforcement to their own intrepretation. No (stock) car or truck has EV style lights, no laws broken. I have yet to see where a law or code that has been posted or refered to here states that a driver MANUALLY flashing his/her lights is a violation of any kind.
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Mechanical or Manually has nothing to do with it. Why must everything have it own seperate code to explain common sense? Its just the mere flashing of the lights on a non-emergency vehicle is the violation. Why would they single emergency vehicles out just for this code section?
Probably so we can how long discussions about like this one.
This.
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There are some gangs out there that will do you harm, if you ever flash your lights at them.
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There are some gangs out there that will do you harm, if you ever flash your lights at them.
Urban legend.
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Mechanical or Manually has nothing to do with it. Why must everything have it own seperate code to explain common sense? Its just the mere flashing of the lights on a non-emergency vehicle is the violation. Why would they single emergency vehicles out just for this code section?
Probably so we can how long discussions about like this one.
Because it shouldn't be illegal. Just like radar detectors shouldn't be illegal either. Similar to the prohibitions some states have about recording LE while on duty.
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Brad Diamond's(producer of TSN's Motoring) story made headlines in Toronto in 2008. The case against him was dismissed for lack of sufficient evidence.....
http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046 (http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046)
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46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.
It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or LIGHT SIGNAL, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.
Signal. Not signals.
"Signal" is not defined, you're doing that. Around here, a request to pass is a left turn signal from the overtaking driver. Flashing of the high beams is also recognized but the turn signal is considered more courteous. As far as the flashing mechanism, the code you refer to states Ican't have such a device in my car, not that I can't flash my lights. I flash my high beams at drivers not dimming their high beams, you're telling me that's a ticketable offence in Va? I think this is entirely your own intrepretation, and in my opinion, has no justification.
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My Suzuki came equipped with a yellow button labeled "pass" on it. I also use it to flash motorists coming at me with their brights on. I use it quite a bit when we're slabbing in- sometimes I hit it twice when using it. Guess I'm lucky the LEO's in NY have better things to do than stop me for using my stock equipment. ;D
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This whole thread is excellent! We all have differing opinions on this subject and we are staying civil (for the most part). I'm happy that we have a LEO in this discussion to broaden the thought process. Also, glad he's from VA :thumbs: . I think the next time I'm down home, I'll ask my nephew (deputy in a southern county) his thoughts on the matter.
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It seems to me the VA law is trying to base a crime on intent. Has this now become a thought crime? The Leo gives me a ticket because he saw my headlights flash. His only basis for the ticket, unless I specifically tell him why I did it, is his best guess as to why. Should he be also able to issue me a ticket because I own a motorcycle capable of exceeding the speed limit and his best guess is that I am going to do it?
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I guess it hard for those not in Law Enforcement to understand where I`m coming from. Va has some of the toughest vehicle equipment laws in the US. Just by having accessories installed on your vehicle and not using them is illegal such a Neon lights, LED lights, Radar Detectors, etc;
This thread is interesting though. :)
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It seems to me the VA law is trying to base a crime on intent. Has this now become a thought crime? The Leo gives me a ticket because he saw my headlights flash. His only basis for the ticket, unless I specifically tell him why I did it, is his best guess as to why. Should he be also able to issue me a ticket because I own a motorcycle capable of exceeding the speed limit and his best guess is that I am going to do it?
Well, don't we? :rotflmao:
I was thinking about this on the way into town just now and thought if this is going to be contested in court the best form of action would be to be polite and not admit anything. Then just go to court and have fun. It would be costly to retain a lawyer but it would be worth it, I think.
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So is mere posession of the radar detector illegal? Or does it have to be "installed". What is the definition of installed? Is it illegal to have it setting on my dash not plugged in and turned off? Does posession equal intent? Brings us back to is intent the definition of illegal/
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Well, don't we? :rotflmao:
I was thinking about this on the way into town just now and thought if this is going to be contested in court the best form of action would be to be polite and not admit anything. Then just go to court and have fun. It would be costly to retain a lawyer but it would be worth it, I think.
I woke up this morning thinking about going for a ride. I guess my ticket will be in the mail box Monday.
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If you have it anywhere inside of the vehicle , whether it's plugged up or not, it is illegal. Basically the code section states "accessible to a power source". I always tell people that their ok if it's locked in the glove box or trunk. Besides, they don't work very good anyway.
So is mere posession of the radar detector illegal? Or does it have to be "installed". What is the definition of installed? Is it illegal to have it setting on my dash not plugged in and turned off? Does posession equal intent? Brings us back to is intent the definition of illegal/
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I guess it hard for those not in Law Enforcement to understand where I`m coming from.
Enlighten us, please. We are largely an open minded group, but to this point, at least in my opinion, you have offered nothing more than your intrepretation of an equipment code as reason/defense for writing tickets for someone using the equipment that came stock (legally) on their vehicle to communicate with other drivers. None of the codes you have provided say anything to support your intrepretation of "illegal flashing" of headlights by the operator, it is an equipment code. Period.
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46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.
It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or LIGHT SIGNAL, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.
Signal. Not signals.
you really need a better grasp of the english language, and a better education on reading and understanding legal statute (my wife is a retired attourney, and even she had a chuckle reading your multiple statements of interpretations). Please discuss this with the nearest Commonwealth attourney (a Commonwealth Attourney is both a District and/or a Circuit Court atty...there is no difference, they are the same as a DA in any other state..), or better yet, Virginia State police.
the word "signal" (not plural) refers to the "act" of "signaling" your intent, not the actual equipment used in the activity. Here again, YOU are making an interpretaion based on YOUR belief that you understand the language, which you clearly do not. You would be cut to shreds in court for your "definition".
No where else in the Va state code book does it say anything else about what type of vehicles are allowed to flash their lights other than motorcycles. SO, it states that emergency vehicles are the only types of vehicles that can do this. Do you need a special device to flash your lights? NO -- The driver can manually do it on any regular vehicle.
If a driver flashes their headlights, whether it be Manually or use a Special device to do it, and they`re not operating an emergency vehicle and have emergency lights activated when they do it, they are in violation.
Where is the common sense that everyone seems to lack these days?
again, YOUR interpretation. and a wrong one at that. The ONLY VEHICALS that are allowed to have "LIGHTS THAT FLASH CONTINUALLY" by means of an INSTALLED MECHANICAL DEVICE are emergency vehicals, and motorcycles (motorcycle flash rate is defined in the specific bike statute).
There is NO LAW SPECIFYING MANUALLY FLASHING ONES HEADLIGHTS FOR ANY other VEHICAL.
I and most of us HAVE COMMON SENSE, and likewise we CAN read and COMPREHEND the letter of the law, without being blinded by attemting force the reason you seem to be in belief of in carrying out YOUR INTERPRETATION of true law. Every single vehical on the road today has a "mechanical device" to switch from high beam to low beam and back again. Your reasoning alone would have EVERY VEHICAL in violation of Va law, by simply having a high lo beam switch. Where is your common sense?
Your credibility is seriously in jeapordy by your statements so far.
you even made the statement it was "ok" to flash to pass someone already...
My post was only pertaining to cars/trucks. There is only one time that drivers are legally Ok to flash their lights and thats when they get behind someone in the left lane that wont get over, and then they can only flash them ONCE. I usually dont write the ticket if they flash only one time(flashing them at someone you know, etc). Its the ones that flash their lights multiple times is the ones I get.
.... However, any person, in any vehicle, Not Motorcycle, can make their lights flash in this manner. This is when the violation of law occurs. The operator is to blame and not the cars fault.
The question that I would then myself would be is "WHY is the operator of this vehicle making his lights flash". Thats when my interpretation comes into play.
While I do agree, that this is not the most violent offense in the world, its still an offense here in Va. I have heard most things about the police(Harassing people*************), mostly from those who have gotten tickets and think that the law doesnt apply to them.
Police Officers do what they are hired to do, Enforce laws. Some like it, Some dont. Thats Life. We cant make every single person happy in every situation, although I do try.
mayb a better wording inlieu of "not the most violent offense in the world" would be "not the most serious crime", your seeming to link a simple moving violation with something tantemount to a Felony.... very disturbing...even in casual conversation, and a lot can be construed from this as to the outcome.
Oh, I have not had a speeding violation anywhere for over 25 years, personally I don't have a reason to speed carelessly, and risk High insurance rates on a bike that it will do in excess of 150 mph...
or any vehical for that matter.
to get back to the origin and intent of the posting, flashing lights at oncoming traffic to force them to slow down accomplishes fully the INTENT slowing speeders down, period. The speed trap, which is clearly applied to repeatedly enforce the offense of breaking a law, does nothing to make driving safer for anyone, and the only affected person is the one with the ticket.
The reasoning vs. the outcome differ greatly.
I'd be curious to see what you would do, seeing a vehical with a sign mounted to the front bumper below the line of sight of the driver of the vehical so as to insure his visual path of the road was unobstructed, reading "slow down, there is a cop ahead"....I think I know the answer already....
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Badcop axed how is radar an illegal search. Can you tap a phone without a warrant? No, and a wire tap is an electronic search. So is radar. The 4th amendment says I am free to travel without fear of ANY search without cause. I am not speeding (being observed breaking the law) yet I am being searched. Radar is phishing for evidence which as a LEO you should know is illegal.
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I would be interested to know badcop has ever had to appear in court in the case of an individual who has contested such a flashing light ticket. Until/unless he has then he is by definition writing tickets based solely on his own interpretation.
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If you have it anywhere inside of the vehicle , whether it's plugged up or not, it is illegal. Basically the code section states "accessible to a power source". I always tell people that their ok if it's locked in the glove box or trunk. Besides, they don't work very good anyway.
I have a cigarette lighter adapter in my trunk, so by your definition, locking the radar detector in my trunk would also be illegal. (My glove box has one as well) But you just stated that would be OK.
An attorney just out of law school would rip your 'interpretations' to shreds. Heck, the 'jailhouse lawyers' that I deal with would present a more convincing argument.
I'm in Corrections. Our reports have to justify the charges we present. (Think a supporting deposition on steroids instead of just the traffic citation form) If I submitted a report trying to use a justification like you have, my supervisor would throw it back at me, if he didn't just rip it up.
VirginiaJim - you've got two LEOs involved in this thread.
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I kinda figured yours from the avatar.... ;)
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Badcop axed how is radar an illegal search. Can you tap a phone without a warrant? No, and a wire tap is an electronic search. So is radar. The 4th amendment says I am free to travel without fear of ANY search without cause. I am not speeding (being observed breaking the law) yet I am being searched. Radar is phishing for evidence which as a LEO you should know is illegal.
Note to all....this is morphing into something a bit different than what the OP originally brought forth. Let's guide it back on to the flasher theme and not the Constitutionalities of using radar, lasers, vascar, or otherwise. That's a whole nother thread.
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We don't have a flasher smilie.
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This is good stuff. I made some phone calls to friends and they have charged the code section below also in the same situation. Notice it does not Say anything about DAY or NIGHT.
46.2-1034. When dimming headlights required.
Whenever a vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead, the operator of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights so aimed that glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver or dim the headlights, if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever the driver of any motor vehicle approaches from the rear or follows within 200 feet of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, the driver shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights.
What do ya think??
I knew about this one but I never would write a ticket for it since is was a moving violation with demerit points. The other code section was just an equipment vilolation with no points (Giving people somewhat of a break). Maybe I`ll have to start charging this now.
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So you're saying I can get written up for following code?
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That code seems to deal with failure to dim, causing distraction or reduced visability for the oncoming driver. I'm not sure how that plays into ticketing for flashing lights to communicate a situation. Again, if I were facing a driver who failed to dim their lights, I would flash mine as a reminder that they had theirs on. I might do it repeatedly if they didn't get the message.
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Why would go from having your lights on low beam(daytime running lights) or off To flashing your hi beams when, According to this, the high beams shouldnt even be on to begin with within the stated measurments?
That code seems to deal with failure to dim, causing distraction or reduced visability for the oncoming driver. I'm not sure how that plays into ticketing for flashing lights to communicate a situation. Again, if I were facing a driver who failed to dim their lights, I would flash mine as a reminder that they had theirs on. I might do it repeatedly if they didn't get the message.
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How would you be following code if you flashed(turned on) your Hi beams within the 500ft allowance? If turned them on at all within the 500 ft, as stated in the code section, you are in violation.
So you're saying I can get written up for following code?
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Flashing lights to warn approaching drivers is NOT a violation of the statute because the lights are wired to flash BOTH high beams at the same time not to alternately flash one side then the other as emergency vehicles do. Writing a ticket for operating the high beams within the specified distance of another vehicle is warranted. A citation for interfering with an investigation is admitting the officer isn't running radar for safety but for revenue generation.
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It seems a somewhat subjective call to tell if I was 500' or 600'.
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Why would go from having your lights on low beam(daytime running lights) or off To flashing your hi beams when, According to this, the high beams shouldnt even be on to begin with within the stated measurments?
I was refering to a night time driving situation, because as you mentioned, the code has no reference to time of day. I would flash my high beams, as I stated, to remind an oncoming driver to dim their lights if they failed to do so. I don't know about Va, but this is common practice and commonly understood where I drive. If I were to flash my lights during the day, even within the stated measurements, the glare/reduced visibility for the oncoming driver would be a non issue, the code is moot.
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This is good stuff. I made some phone calls to friends and they have charged the code section below also in the same situation. Notice it does not Say anything about DAY or NIGHT.46.2-1034. When dimming headlights required.
Whenever a vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead, the operator of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver of such vehicle shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights so aimed that glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver or dim the headlights, if the vehicle has single-beam lights. Whenever the driver of any motor vehicle approaches from the rear or follows within 200 feet of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, the driver shall use the low beam of his vehicle's headlights or shall dim the headlights if the vehicle has single-beam lights.
What do ya think??
I knew about this one but I never would write a ticket for it since is was a moving violation with demerit points. The other code section was just an equipment vilolation with no points (Giving people somewhat of a break). Maybe I`ll have to start charging this now.
good luck with that, tell us all how it works out for you...... :hitfan:
it's clear by the verbiage, that the law has been changed as time passed, to include a "modern vehical" more commonly known as one that "doesn't have antique plates" affixed to it....
"Dimmer" (rheostat) switches on single beam headlight equiped vehicals were old hat from the late 20's on, so this tells just how atiquated the law you are quoting here is, or should I phrase better as how far back it goes.... :deadhorse:
I would also fair well challenging 10 people to guestimate 200, 350, or 500 feet on any road, day or night....yeah it's law, but enforce it, right...... ::) :rotflmao:
it's clearly evident the law quoted above IS related to night driving by the initial preface that preceeds the content :
"vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead..."
you can really stretch things out in any manner you want to, it all goes by the letter of the law.
Go earn a Jurisdoctorate in Law and then we can play the game...... ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor)
ain't scoring big bonus points yet....sorry. :popcorn:
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That's really a stretch and I think that any judge would see it that way. You do realize that a large number of motorcyclists run with their bright lights on during the day, me included, for visibility. If you decide to enforce during the day then you would be writing them and me tickets and all this just because your upset someone is warning about a radar setup? I'm beginning to wonder about you and abuse of power. I'm trying to take a neutral position here but in bringing up that statute, which is clearly for nighttime usage of headlights and what the writers in Richmond presumed, is showing your true colors. And how the heck can you tell which lights are on bright these days with everyone running hot whites and non-dot off-road lamps?
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I'm beginning to wonder about you and abuse of power.
Ya think?
This officer, and apparently his coworkers really typify what is unseemly about LEO's like them. :pukeface:
Not all LEO's.
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I wonder if he carries a tire tread depth guage in his pocket protector.
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careful Jim, we're trying to hold an intelligent conversation with a self proclaimed "BADCOP621" ;)
best part is he hasn't figured out yeat that pulling his posts, or even editing them will have zero result in masking his comments when you use the "quote" feature in responses.... :pukeface:
:grouphug: :rotflmao: :thumbs: :popcorn:
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(http://demotivators.despair.com/delusionsdemotivator.jpg)
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Warning other motorists of speed traps is perfectly legal in Ontario!
Charges under Section 168 and 169 of HTA(Highway Traffic Act) are few and far between nowadays in our province because of the two stories by The Toronto Star.
This is the follow up story to the one in my reply#52:
http://www.wheels.ca/article/173244 (http://www.wheels.ca/article/173244)
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The word 'Troll' is coming to mind to me at the moment and we aren't pleased at all.... In fact, we're getting into a very bad humor about this.
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These are my interpretations of the codes that we are talking about. If you ask another officer , he may have a different interpretation. If you ask someone whos not in law enforcement, they may have the same as me and may not. Everyone has a right to have a different interpretation. I write a ticket based on my interpretation. Some things are very clear. Some things you have to interpret. It's My job to write the ticket as I have been trained to do. It's the judges job to determine guilt or innocence. I don't care one way or the other what the courts do with it.
My .02
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:popcorn:
Like sands through the hour glass...
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That's really a stretch and I think that any judge would see it that way. You do realize that a large number of motorcyclists run with their bright lights on during the day, me included, for visibility. If you decide to enforce during the day then you would be writing them and me tickets and all this just because your upset someone is warning about a radar setup? I'm beginning to wonder about you and abuse of power. I'm trying to take a neutral position here but in bringing up that statute, which is clearly for nighttime usage of headlights and what the writers in Richmond presumed, is showing your true colors. And how the heck can you tell which lights are on bright these days with everyone running hot whites and non-dot off-road lamps?
If I see these hot white lights or non dot off road lamps, such as HIDS , then it presents a whole different charge. I will stop and inspect the lamps, ballast, etc for the dot approval.
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good luck with that, tell us all how it works out for you...... :hitfan:
it's clear by the verbiage, that the law has been changed as time passed, to include a "modern vehical" more commonly known as one that "doesn't have antique plates" affixed to it....
"Dimmer" (rheostat) switches on single beam headlight equiped vehicals were old hat from the late 20's on, so this tells just how atiquated the law you are quoting here is, or should I phrase better as how far back it goes.... :deadhorse:
I would also fair well challenging 10 people to guestimate 200, 350, or 500 feet on any road, day or night....yeah it's law, but enforce it, right...... ::) :rotflmao:
it's clearly evident the law quoted above IS related to night driving by the initial preface that preceeds the content :
"vehicle is being driven on a highway or a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted to reveal any person or object upon such highway at a distance of 350 feet ahead..."
you can really stretch things out in any manner you want to, it all goes by the letter of the law.
Go earn a Jurisdoctorate in Law and then we can play the game...... ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor)
ain't scoring big bonus points yet....sorry. :popcorn:
Why cant this be applied in the daytime? It clearly states "vehicle is being driving on the highway OR a portion thereof which is sufficiently lighted" . The key word there is OR. The first part of that says nothing about it being at night. Can you be blinded by hi beam lights during the day? YES. Lets say it's the afternoon and a thunderstorm comes up and the sky gets black from the clouds. Does it apply now? But wait , according to your INTERPRETATION, it doesn't apply since its daytime.
P.s. I modified the post just for you. ;D
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If I see these hot white lights or non dot off road lamps, such as HIDS , then it presents a whole different charge. I will stop and inspect the lamps, ballast, etc for the dot approval.
And when I refuse to allow you to search my vehicle? (Before you answer, think back to your Academy days - what was that, 6 months ago? - and see if you've got probable cause.)
Interpretation of the law is not up to an individual LEO. That is a job for the courts. You're really trying to stretch the laws to cover a behavior you don't like.
You seem to be a civil rights lawsuit just waiting to happen.
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Starting to sound like a DOD rent a cop. Screen name appears to be more of an earned nickname.
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And when I refuse to allow you to search my vehicle? (Before you answer, think back to your Academy days - what was that, 6 months ago? - and see if you've got probable cause.)
Interpretation of the law is not up to an individual LEO. That is a job for the courts. You're really trying to stretch the laws to cover a behavior you don't like.
You seem to be a civil rights lawsuit just waiting to happen.
Va law allows any law enforcement officer to inspect any vehicle for proper equipment, engine numbers etc; You have to have reasonable suspicion to stop the vehicle. That's when my training and mechanical experience comes into play. If a driver refuses to let a police officer inspect their vehicle for the proper equipment, then state law allows the officer to suspend the registration of the vehicle. This means taking the license plates from the vehicle and calling a tow truck. Even if the officer inspects and finds that the vehicle is equipped with improper lights, he may still seize plates from the vehicle. Not likely for for the first offense though.
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State law allows a cop to be the judge and jury? Sounds like VA laws need some Constitutional review. And did ya know some cars have HID lamps as OEM equipment? You are leaving yourself wide open for some big lawsuits. Or you are just talking big. Or, are you really a cop? If you are, please tell us where.
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State law allows a cop to be the judge and jury? Sounds like VA laws need some Constitutional review. And did ya know some cars have HID lamps as OEM equipment? You are leaving yourself wide open for some big lawsuits. Or you are just talking big. Or, are you really a cop? If you are, please tell us where.
That's were training and experience comes into play.
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Official name change! This is what I feel like on here ! It seems most folks on this thread aren't from Va and are completely ignorant of the law here in Va. Go read the entire traffic code book for Va and the case law that goes with it and you may understand where I'm coming from. I'm going to leave it at that. I am merely trying to let ya know about some of the laws here. I didn't make them. I was trained on how to enforce them by experienced police officers that have enforcing them for years.
As stated above, I'm done posting on this topic. :banghead:
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Wimp, don't you have donut to eat? ;) Starting to feel like an old smokey and the bandit flick 'round these parts. I can't hardly wait for winter to set in, this should be an epic year 8)
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Official name change! This is what I feel like on here ! It seems most folks on this thread aren't from Va and are completely ignorant of the law here in Va. Go read the entire traffic code book for Va and the case law that goes with it and you may understand where I'm coming from. I'm going to leave it at that. I am merely trying to let ya know about some of the laws here. I didn't make them. I was trained on how to enforce them by experienced police officers that have enforcing them for years.
As stated above, I'm done posting on this topic. :banghead:
If you were trained to enforce then why are you interpreting law? You admit you have no experience in that area and it shows. My son lives in VA and has for over ten years. He's a firefighter but you would never find him intrprting fire codes. He's also in the military but he'll not interpret the UMCJ. Not his job. You would do well do do what you say you were trained to do-ENFORCE law. Why won't you tell us which department you work for? Afraid of a reprimand? Btw, on the name change you're worse as a lawyer than a cop.
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You're really trying to stretch the laws to cover a behavior you don't like.
+1. This has been my impression from the beginning. He and those like him are trying to justify writing these tickets with existing laws that were not intended for this purpose.
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And that hits the nail right on the head.
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Troll cop from a commie state? (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Troll cop from a commie state? (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
If by commie, you mean Commonwealth, then yes. If it's the other meaning, no. >:(
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While it is clear that most on this thread doesnt like law enforcement and some the only time you`ve had to deal with the police is when your sitting in front of the blue lights. It is also very clear that some on here think the do whatever they want to and the rules dont apply to them. I am speaking of the laws that apply here in Virginia only. I have no idea what goes on in other states. From what it sounds like is something different. I have no idea.
I do have a challenge for some, Come out on the Road, and do the job as I have the past 15 years and then we`ll talk.
On another note, This thread has opened my eyes as to what kind of folks that are on this website. Stupid remarks such as ,donuts, in the academy only six months, etc; really shows your intelligence level as no one here knows anything about me. Yes, there may be some good folks on here. Some are in this thread. So I have found out what I need to do.
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Revenuer
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Go read the entire traffic code book for Va and the case law that goes with it and you may understand where I'm coming from.
Why should anyone bother? If the regulations are up to the "interpretation" of ill-trained officers in the field, it doesn't matter what the law says. Only what the officer "interprets" the law to mean.
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You still have to go by what the code sections means. Does every little detail, do`s and dont`s, about the law have to be written out? If this was the case, Then why do we even have attorneys??
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While it is clear that most on this thread doesnt like law enforcement and some the only time you`ve had to deal with the police is when your sitting in front of the blue lights. It is also very clear that some on here think the do whatever they want to and the rules dont apply to them. I am speaking of the laws that apply here in Virginia only. I have no idea what goes on in other states. From what it sounds like is something different. I have no idea.
I do have a challenge for some, Come out on the Road, and do the job as I have the past 15 years and then we`ll talk.
On another note, This thread has opened my eyes as to what kind of folks that are on this website. Stupid remarks such as ,donuts, in the academy only six months, etc; really shows your intelligence level as no one here knows anything about me. Yes, there may be some good folks on here. Some are in this thread. So I have found out what I need to do.
Projecting just a tad, eh? I reckon you have no idea what kind of folk we have. Any idea what the smileys are for? I wish we could figure out who you are, you have projected a veiled threat and promised abuse of the law. It is police officers like you that give good LEOs a black eye. If you are truly a LEO with 15 years of service, which BTW I seriously doubt, it is only a matter of time before you are looking for work. Based on what you have written, I would say you dont write many reports, or if you do, it is a reflection on your leadership. I would suggest you exercise your righ to remain silent. It is better to remain silent and have us question your foolishness, than open your virtual mouth and remove all doubt. Friendly advice from a concerned family member.
If you want to continue this banter start a thread in the Arena, a place this is surely headed if we continue this route. Weve muddied up the Open Forum enough (IMHO).
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I think we're to the point of :doublepuke: here unfortunately so I'm terminating this interesting discussion for now.