Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: DC Concours on April 12, 2022, 04:31:21 PM
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WTF.
I am not happy. I don't want to be clogging my carbs and paying more for diluted gasoline. Just means it may be cheaper but I will get less distance??
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/12/gas-prices-biden-expand-ethanol-availability-ease-pain-pump/7283707001/
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I've started using E15 in both my 16 Tacoma and 21 Prius. It's 30 cents cheaper than regular. It's not widely available though and only a few Sheetz around where I live carry it. I wouldn't use it on a carb fitted engine though or small engines. I don't see any issues with it on the vehicles though. Can't tell the difference in performance and the gas mileage is the same as near as I can tell. Both of those vehicles state that it is ok to use up to E15.
You guys with carbs, I mean even with E10 it causes issues if you leave it in too long. I don't see stations dumping E10 to go with E15. They have to be set up for it. The Sheetz I use had two pump handles on the left with flex fuel and E15. The right side has a pump for all the rest. I can see newer stations adding the E15 and Flex or retrofitting existing stations for the new stuff.
I don't think you have anything to worry about yet. They can't change E10 to E15. That would cause too many issues.
I'm phasing out all my gas powered small engines as they die out and going to battery or electric.
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Interesting. I just learned that E15 is worse for the air than E10. Surprising. Damn corn lobbyists.
Will it cause issues on older cars from the 90s? For a 10c/gal reduction and slightly worse mileage, I don't think it is worth it. I would like to get an electric car when the prices come down and charging stations are readily available. My neighbor is having a hard time installing one and they are expensive as well.
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Interesting. I just learned that E15 is worse for the air than E10. Surprising. Damn corn lobbyists.
Yep. Ethanol was a bad idea from the start, especially using corn.
Will it cause issues on older cars from the 90s? For a 10c/gal reduction and slightly worse mileage, I don't think it is worth it.
I can't prove it, but I think ethanol is what ruined my ZRX carburetor which plagued me with problems for years. And I think it is what has chronically screwed up my C14 gas cap.
I would like to get an electric car when the prices come down and charging stations are readily available. My neighbor is having a hard time installing one and they are expensive as well.
I have been wanting an electric car for years now. Fast, quiet, smooth, reliable, and convenient. For my needs/location, charging stations almost don't matter. But apparently no car maker yet makes what I want. I don't want an ugly "cyber" car, nor do I want an SUV nor a truck or econo box. I also don't want self-driving nor a driving video game with no real controls or dashboard. They can't seem to understand, yet, that many of us just want an electric version of what we currently are familiar with (in my case, a great-looking, Japanese luxury sport performance sedan with great build quality, feel, options, and controls). Then there is the cost. I am getting impatient, but keep hoping...
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I would not use E10+ in an older vehicle not designed for it. In other words if it doesn't specify it in the manual, don't use it. It can potentially affect fuel lines and the rubber thingys in the fuel delivery system. I've replaced more than a few small engine carbs on my lawn equipment because of the E10 fuel.
Max, you hit that one on the head. We want what we like and drive now in an electric version. The Japanese hybrid vehicles are some of the best and I've been using them since 2004. As far as all electric goes, I would want something from Toyota personally, but that's me.
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Max, you hit that one on the head. We want what we like and drive now in an electric version. The Japanese hybrid vehicles are some of the best and I've been using them since 2004. As far as all electric goes, I would want something from Toyota personally, but that's me.
For me, I would love an electric Infiniti Q50. CHANGE NOTHING ELSE- same car, looks, features, choices, interior. Just electric.
I don't know why the Japanese (Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Accura, Toyota/Lexus) are so late in the game. Perhaps they are just waiting for the right tech? Or they are being overly cautious?
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higher content ethanol will be available... they aren't going to change or replace the e10 to e15. just fyi. (no need to panic) . And its under 5% of gas stations nationally are even equipped to distribute e15. It is just allowing what is already sold at these stations to be sold in the summer months, which it usually isn't in some areas.
My ford edge runs just fine on e15, (designed to) but everything else i own is a no go.
Funny how nobody really bitched in the same way last time this was done. :facepalm:
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It's been so long. I don't know exactly what my manuals specify. But I know no more than E10. I have 3 old cars that I rotate around. Can't seem to get rid of them. And me taking the metro to work, they barely get any considerable mileage. My worry is clogging the injectors but I think the pressure will keep them clear. Don't know if this is even a thing.
And my bike gets even less use! But definitely no more ethanol for her. The closest E0 gas is 40 miles out and I get that when I feel the winter will be bad.
I want to change to electric but only after my current cars all die out. That will be after I die out! If I were in CA or WA I think they are passing a law prohibiting new registration of older gas cars starting 2030 and no more gas cars built after 2030. As$hole hippies.
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I would have bitched. But I was probably too young to understand the ill effects or too young/poor to buy a good car.
Funny how nobody really bitched in the same way last time this was done. :facepalm:
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you were too young 3 years ago? :o
I have 14 bikes, 2 vintage cars, most of my bikes are from the 70s. No issues here due to pump gas. (not kidding).
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hahaha. I thought you were talking about the 90s when ethanol gas was first introduced.
If you have no issues with so many vehicles, why are people bitching about ethanol? I feel better.
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because, people like to bitch.
Letting any vehicle sit is an issue, regardless of fuel type. stabilizers came out wayyyyy before ethanol was introduced. think about it. just my opinion. Im no fan of ethanol, make no doubt, i think its BS how it even came around, but its here and I've had no issues.
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hahaha. I thought you were talking about the 90s when ethanol gas was first introduced.
If you have no issues with so many vehicles, why are people bitching about ethanol? I feel better.
Actually gasohol was introduced in the 40's..lol. And I distinctly remember at least one station using it in the 70's where I grew up...southern VA. It was during the Arab oil embargo that it was reintroduced. I think I may have used it a few times then. However, that station (Pilot) had a bad rap with their gas and I stopped using it. Don't remember the issues I had but I avoided that station like the plague afterwards.
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i meant 3 yrs ago when the 15% was allowed to be sold in non winter mos. 8)
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Why the hell am I learning all this new sh!t just now?
Maybe because the prices were never high enough for me to care enough.
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Not so sure the corn lobby had much to do with the logic behind this move, sure, they will make money but I think it is secondary to what is going on.
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the whole reason its in there in the 1st place IS the corn lobby. Gvt subsidized industry farming. And yes, they pushed for it as a 'solution'. regardless, its still not prolific, as stated in original article, though. They have aggressively been trying to get e15 pushed for year round sales since 2007 ish.
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we are all entitled to our opinion, and ours conflict. yours is corn lobby, mine is a prez forcing to drive electric cars with policies over time will make it untenable to drive a non-electric cars. We'll disagree. :)
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Don't forget to cover your red barchettas before you put them away.
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Well, only two vehicles I have right now both call for NO MORE than E10. So unless local pumps start to switch to something higher, I should be OK.
As for the lawn mower and generator, I put stabilizer in all the gas I use for those. Not sure if/how it works, but haven't had any problem with either, and they are pretty darn old (and the generator sits unused for VERY long periods of time with VERY VERY old gas in it).
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ok. for the last time. they aren't switching new pumps to e15 widely, if at all. apparently there's an issue with reading the article this was all referenced from listed by the OP. they have been making/selling 15 for a LONG time.
If you think its the president, why did the last one do the exact same thing in 2017? please explain that one.
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refer to my post about opinions. ;D I just hope corn on the cob don't go up in price.
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that happened. its a non debatable fact. Also there's 1 million barrels of crude being released per day here currently from the strategic reserve. also a fact, its happening, which caused the price of crude oil to drop 5% in one day.
IF that agenda indeed was the purpose of this, stations would 1st be required to quit selling non ethanol. That isn't happening either. so.. the logic of the 'blame' doesn't suss out.
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ok. for the last time. they aren't switching new pumps to e15 widely, if at all. apparently there's an issue with reading the article this was all referenced from listed by the OP. they have been making/selling 15 for a LONG time.
If you think its the president, why did the last one do the exact same thing in 2017? please explain that one.
I'm not sure about 2017, but THIS round of pushing E15 is specifically being done to reduce gasoline prices. It's not the corn lobby, although anyone farming corn right now is probably happy. THis is an administration realizing high gas prices and higher inflation is bad politically and costly to their party in the midterms. I'm sure a GOP administration in the same situation would try something similar.
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I'm not sure about 2017, but THIS round of pushing E15 is specifically being done to reduce gasoline prices. It's not the corn lobby, although anyone farming corn right now is probably happy. THis is an administration realizing high gas prices and higher inflation is bad politically and costly to their party in the midterms. I'm sure a GOP administration in the same situation would try something similar.
I don't think this would be happening if the GOP was the administration. It is, of course debatable. Also, to the extent of us being in the situation, the price of corn will also go up because we import fertilizer from them (on top of the rampant inflation). So even if it were not a tiny number of stations selling E15, it wouldn't probably matter, anyway. I know I haven't seen any station where I live selling E15. But there are almost none in this area selling E0, either. I would guess 99% E10.
I checked the Concours manual again, just to confirm what I thought: "Gasoline/Alcohol Blends - Gasoline
containing up to 10% ethanol (alcohol produced from agricultural products such as corn), also known as “gasohol” is approved for use." "Never use “gasohol” with more than 10% ethanol" Sounds pretty clear. Would E15 cause any real problem with occasional use, especially if used up pretty quickly and not stored a long time? Maybe not?
Also on the topic, it says "When not operating your Kawasaki for 30 to 60 days, mix a fuel stabilizer (such as STA-BIL) with the gasoline in the fuel tank." 30 days sounds a bit silly. And it is pretty rare I ever go 60 days with the same tank of gas in the bike.
But yes, if it had happened under the GOP, indeed they would probably do the same thing. Yet the strategic stockpile won't last very long (something like 90 days of replacement of what is imported).
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Ok, guys. I like this thread and don't want to send it to the arena. Enough with the politics please.
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https://greenbuildingelements.com/fuel-for-thought-is-e15-gasoline-harmful-to-your-car/ (https://greenbuildingelements.com/fuel-for-thought-is-e15-gasoline-harmful-to-your-car/)
Max, I use the gas buddy app to find E15. I seek it out especially if it's less expensive than 87. Not a whole lot of places carry it that I've found.
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sorry, not 2017, 2019.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=40095
but in 17:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31832
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Good info. I didn't know IA produced so much ethanol. I thought CA did because their farms feed most of America.
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Good info. I didn't know IA produced so much ethanol. I thought CA did because their farms feed most of America.
I think Iowa and Illinois are 1-2 for corn production. California grows other things. Where I grew up the corn is now processed into alcohol- used for everything BUT drinking. But my hometown smells like a distillery since ADM converted to alcohol production. When I was young Fleischman's (and later Nabisco) made sweeteners there. Back then it smelled like cotton candy.
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While we are on the topic of gasoline...does anyone know if car knock sensors are really effective and quick to slow the timing to protect the engine?
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While we are on the topic of gasoline...does anyone know if car knock sensors are really effective and quick to slow the timing to protect the engine?
From what I am told, yes. (I am sure it varies by model/year/design).
But the addition of alcohol in gas actually INCREASES octane, making pre-detonation less likely. So I doubt using gasahol would have an effect of increasing knock. Most of the negatives are due to corrosion and moisture collection.
Also, despite popular myth, the higher the octane, the LOWER the energy potential in an engine not designed to use higher octane. One should use the correct octane based on the design of the engine (which is based on the design compression ratio). There is really nothing "premium" about "premium gas", it is just higher octane. It is not "better", just different. Using it in an engine designed for lower octane results in poorer power, poorer fuel economy, and a waste of money. Generally the only exception is when the engine has horrible deposits and is in poor condition where using a higher octane than requested can help prevent knock. But this is rarely a problem in any modern car because gas additives are just so much better at preventing the deposits that cause knock.
Using a lower octane than the manufacturer requires is also bad, because the higher compression will create knock, which can damage the engine (if not arrested by anti-knock engine technology which tries to change the timing to deal with the improper fuel). And, again, this results in loss of power and efficiency, and wastes money.
So the rule is: use the correct octane gas stated by your user's manual for the engine in question.
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I have this inline 6 cyl Mercedes from the 90s that says "Premium Only" and I want to try regular because premium around here is more than 1.75/gal over regular. My friends use regular and theirs says the same thing too. No ill effects though. I just can't get myself to do it. A couple of $$ is not worth a broken engine.
But am I just throwing money away here?
From what I am told, yes. (I am sure it varies by model/year/design).
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Using a lower octane than the manufacturer requires is also bad, because the higher compression will create knock, which can damage the engine (if not arrested by anti-knock engine technology which tries to change the timing to deal with the improper fuel). And, again, this results in loss of power and efficiency, and wastes money.
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Sell the Mercedes if you can't afford the correct gas to put in it. You'll wind up ruining it. You can try 89 instead but if it calls for premium there's a reason for it.
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That's what I say. Don't buy a car you cannot maintain.
It's paid off and not worth much like my C10.
Sell the Mercedes if you can't afford the correct gas to put in it. You'll wind up ruining it. You can try 89 instead but if it calls for premium there's a reason for it.
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Sell the Mercedes if you can't afford the correct gas to put in it. You'll wind up ruining it. You can try 89 instead but if it calls for premium there's a reason for it.
It is just like people putting low or mid octane in the Concours. Yes, if you are not pushing it and the temps are low, it might be OK most of the time (or maybe all the time in those conditions). But with VVT, the compression will go up at higher RPM and also with the higher temps- it needs higher octane to prevent preignition. I don't think it is worth the gamble that could lead to engine damage. From what I understand, the Concours does *NOT* have a knock sensor.
Get your high-octane gas at Costco or Sam's or BJ's where they don't rip you off. The difference in price there between low and high octane is minimal. And since it only holds 6gal (and I get something like 45MPG) so it isn't going to break anyone. :)
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The gas buddy app will tell you the cheapest sources for premium. Around where I live, Murphy's has the lowest premium.
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same reason you decrease the timing curve in HP 2 strokes at higher rpm, which seems counter intuitive, the dynamic compression actually goes up the higher it revs. rule of thumb is anything op near 11:1 needs 91-93 minimally. anything under that can usually be tuned not to knock on 87. there's a really good episode of engine masters where they run different octanes including ethanol on a dyno and analyze the numbers. its eye opening. (if you have motortrend). worth a look.