Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Awaz on September 10, 2013, 09:00:08 AM
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My bike is a 2008 non-ABS. So far, I have not had the need for ABS or traction control. I will not claim to be a very skilled rider, just a very defensive one. However, I am contemplating it is better to have traction control and ABS just as an insurance. Does it justify the cost to upgrade to a newer bike with those amenities? Any thoughts?
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I've never owned a bike with TC but ABS is worth every penny.
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I wouldn't necessarily trade a perfectly good bike just to get the abs & traction control, but yes I think ABS is a good thing. Much prefer to have the brakes unlinked though...
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My last two bikes had ABS... my C14 has ABS... and I'll never by another bike without it. It's worth every penny!
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I'm happy with mine (08 ABS) and won't buy another without the ABS feature. However, if I ever do buy another C14 it will have ABS/Traction control and linked brakes :_shudder_Emoticon (hopefully they'll have the bugs worked out of the linked feature by then).
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TC has saved my bacon on two occasions, and ABS is worth its weight in gold. I'll never own a bike without it. It's helped me stop without locking up the wheeles. In addition - My brother got into a bad accident (that put him in a coma for a week) when he grabbed a handful of front break (out of habbit) when a driver crossed in front of him from left to right. His front locked up, and the bike slid out from underneath him. He lowsided and slid under the front of the car (which ran him over). He still rides, but before he got a new bike, he swore he'd never get another bike without ABS. The people that were with him indicated he would have been able to stop if he'd had ABS. That's my one story, and one very good reason why I'll sware by it.
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I'd say it depends on how much it will cost you to trade up, and how easily you can afford the difference.
The C14 is the first bike I've ever had in over 40 years with ABS/TC. I know it's safer, but I've ridden so long without them, it doesn't seem that important to me. Others may feel stronger about having them.
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Bluntly, yes and no. To replace skill with mechanical aid? When the time comes to replace your bike I see no reason not to get the mechanical advantage, but until then I would say spend the money on additional advanced rider training.
Make sense? I hope so, I aint anti ABS in any way, shape, or form. What I am against is replacing skill with 'lectronics 8)
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Bluntly, yes and no. To replace skill with mechanical aid? When the time comes to replace your bike I see no reason not to get the mechanical advantage, but until then I would say spend the money on additional advanced rider training.
Make sense? I hope so, I aint anti ABS in any way, shape, or form. What I am against is replacing skill with 'lectronics 8)
+1 and even after getting ABS, you still need to practice... practice... and practice. 8)
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I wouldn't necessarily trade a perfectly good bike just to get the abs & traction control, but yes I think ABS is a good thing. Much prefer to have the brakes unlinked though...
That.
I like that it's there for me, but I wasn't necessarily seeking it out when I bought the bike.
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My bike is a 2008 non-ABS. So far, I have not had the need for ABS or traction control. I will not claim to be a very skilled rider, just a very defensive one. However, I am contemplating it is better to have traction control and ABS just as an insurance. Does it justify the cost to upgrade to a newer bike with those amenities? Any thoughts?
Many such threads in the past.
ABS is great and I would not own a vehicle without it now. Have not had it kick in yet on my C14 (nor traction control), but would not want to be without it when I need it. Is it worth upgrading the bike just for that? Probably not just for that... although there are lots of other good reasons (many other improvements in gen2 model) but you might want to wait another year to see what Kawasaki has coming...
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And be disappointed again? Why wait a year on the hope that it might be better.... Nah, buy what you want now and enjoy it. The world may end tomorrow and then where would you be?
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And be disappointed again? Why wait a year on the hope that it might be better.... Nah, buy what you want now and enjoy it. The world may end tomorrow and then where would you be?
I suspect, but without ANY evidence, that the 2015 will be the first of the gen3...
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And be disappointed again? Why wait a year on the hope that it might be better.... Nah, buy what you want now and enjoy it. The world may end tomorrow and then where would you be?
You'd have a bike and no place to ride it.
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+1 and even after getting ABS, you still need to practice... practice... and practice. 8)
Plus, wear ALL your gear, ALL the time. Wear hi-vis colors. Ride as if you were invisible.
This sport we love is very thrilling, very exciting, but also dangerous. We need to use every tool available to mitigate that risk, not simply for the sake of our own skin, but perhaps moreso for those who love us.
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Make sense? I hope so, I aint anti ABS in any way, shape, or form. What I am against is replacing skill with 'lectronics 8)
I agree 100% I love my 2009 non-ABS. I just took a ride the other day that included a stretch of twisty up and downhill gravel roads with some steep grades, and I shockingly was able to accelerate and stop without issue. If they continue to link the brakes on the C14 I will look elsewhere when replacing it most likely. I hate linked brakes on anything intended for sport riding. For a Goldwing, okay, for a sport touring bike, nope. Skills are more important, ABS is a good thing but it doesn't replace skill. Unfortunately the more someone relies on ABS or traction control, they seem to lose the skills.
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I think abs & traction control are one of thoe things you personally have to experience to become a believer. Since most of us have been riding bikes without all the fancy electronics for many years its easy to tell yourself you don't need it. The first time ABS or TC saves your butt is when you tell yourself you'll never own a bike without it.
I've def engaged ABS before & have purposefully tested TC, & hell yeah they work great, & now I def prefer my bikes to have em. Can live w/out the linked brakes tho...unless Kaw fixes it (like Hondas)
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I think abs & traction control are one of thoe things you personally have to experience to become a believer. Since most of us have been riding bikes without all the fancy electronics for many years its easy to tell yourself you don't need it. The first time ABS or TC saves your butt is when you tell yourself you'll never own a bike without it.
I've def engaged ABS before & have purposefully tested TC, & hell yeah they work great, & now I def prefer my bikes to have em. Can live w/out the linked brakes tho...unless Kaw fixes it (like Hondas)
I never said they were bad, I just said that many people today have lost necessary skills because they rely on ABS and traction control. They simply grab the brake and pray with no regard for proper braking.
I hear so many people say that TC or ABS saved their butt. I hear some of the same people say it has saved their butt more than once. I say, if it saved your butt more than once, most likely you are not braking properly, or using your throttle properly. It tells me that if you were riding a bike without ABS or TC, you would have crashed more than once. So in other words, they have lost throttle control and braking skills.
That being said, the proper way to brake with ABS is to squeeze and let the ABS do the work. So, if you do that, most likely you will engage ABS, but that doesn't mean it saved your butt, had you been on a bike without ABS, you probably wouldn't have simply squeezed and prayed, you would have modulated the brake properly, and also not have wrecked. The same with TC. If you are hamfisted and slam the throttle open, and TC kicks in, you may say that TC saved you butt. If you didn't have TC, most likely you would have been more smooth with the throttle control and not had a problem.
I rode on the gravel without issue. Why? Because I used good throttle control, and good braking skills. I didn't skid, and didn't skid and didn't spin the tire. So how would TC or ABS help in that situation? It wouldn't. Now if I were unskilled and simply grabbed the brake, then ABS would kick in. Likewise if I didn't control the throttle properly, TC would kick in.
ABS is amazing. It is fantastic in a panic situation on slick surfaces, especially for those who don't practice. It doesn't save your butt often as I hear so many times. I prefer simplicity. What happens if the ABS fails? It can happen. Not a big deal on a car, but on a bike it is. Likely? probably not, but possible. I prefer a choice. Now had Kawasaki implemented ABS without the idiotic linked brakes, I very well may have bought a newer model with ABS. I hate linked brakes on a sport bike though, it makes trail braking difficult and potentially dangerous.
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I never said they were bad, I just said that many people today have lost necessary skills because they rely on ABS and traction control. They simply grab the brake and pray with no regard for proper braking.
I've never had time to pray in those situations.... :'( Only time to say 'Oh :censored: '!
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I hear so many people say that TC or ABS saved their butt. I hear some of the same people say it has saved their butt more than once. I say, if it saved your butt more than once, most likely you are not braking properly, or using your throttle properly. It tells me that if you were riding a bike without ABS or TC, you would have crashed more than once. So in other words, they have lost throttle control and braking skills
- instead of listening to the likes of you , I actually googled it and no surprises :
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/abs_motorcycle.html (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/abs_motorcycle.html)
"Therefore it is important to be aware that when it comes to buying a motorcycle the decision to buy an ABS bike could be the difference between life and death."
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http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html (http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html)
"ABS: worth the price. We have little doubt that, except for true experts, operating in perfect conditions, most riders in ambient conditions will perform much better in emergency stopping with ABS"
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http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html)
"The accumulation of evidence looks like ABS does work on bikes, and that it probably saves lives."
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http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html)
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No arguments from me on that one...
With the exception of '- instead of listening to the likes of you , I actually googled it and no surprises :'....
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No arguments from me on that one...
+1
I have felt the ABS pulse on on my rear wheel several times but the first time ever on the front was the other day at a gas pump as I slowly pulled up someone had spilled oil or gas all over the place. Boy was I glad I have ABS.
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- instead of listening to the likes of you , I actually googled it and no surprises :
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The likes of me? Wow. Once again, I never said I didn't think ABS was bad, it is amazing, I said that many forget to practice basic braking skills once they have it. Sorry to bother you with another opinion. I have no doubts ABS can and does save lives. I just don't buy into all the "ABS saved my ass" moments I see written about all the time. If you have ABS, it is still important to practice. How is that statement wrong?
If ABS repeatedly saves your ass, you are doing something wrong. That is saying you repeatedly wreck if you don;t have it. That of course isn't true since the vast majority of riders I know don't repeatedly wreck.
Thanks for being so judgmental towards the likes of me and have a nice day.
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Ten years ago, I was touring on my katana 1100, the thing was fully loaded with gear and stuff for a ten day trip. I turned onto a highway which was very recently oiled/ surfaced whatever. Well, the state of CA workers forget to put a sign warning about this and my rear wheel just kept sliding away and away. I pumped my left foot on the pavement repeatedly to keep the bike from laying on its side and luckily, I won.
If I were to do that today, I'd lose. If I had tc, it would never have happened. TC is awesome, it will keep you from wrecking. Another good example was when I went on that dirt gravel road to Bodie (ghost town) and the tc light kept coming on, but the bike stayed stable. i have seen HD guys ride that road with their legs flayed out to act as stabilizers- not safe.
ABS is equally good. I like how it works with the rear brake, it actually slows you down. Every other bike that I have had, rear brake was not useful, had two modes- not used or locked.
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..http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/abs_motorcycle.html (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/abs_motorcycle.html)
"Therefore it is important to be aware that when it comes to buying a motorcycle the decision to buy an ABS bike could be the difference between life and death."
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Australia is upside down.
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http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html (http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html)
"ABS: worth the price. We have little doubt that, except for true experts, operating in perfect conditions, most riders in ambient conditions will perform much better in emergency stopping with ABS"
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"... in emergency stopping..." that's where ABS can save your bacon. Day to day, I've never activated my ABS, nor TC.
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http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html)
"The accumulation of evidence looks like ABS does work on bikes, and that it probably saves lives."
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"... looks like..." and "... probably..." Now THAT's a definitive statement!
Don't worry, PH... I think the opinion of the "likes of you" are valid. TC and ABS can't fix stupid, any more than seatbelts and airbags. They all help, and can give you a better chance, but proper vehicle control should be the first step in staying upright/safe/alive.
Ten years ago, I was touring on my katana 1100, the thing was fully loaded with gear and stuff for a ten day trip. I turned onto a highway which was very recently oiled/ surfaced whatever. Well, the state of CA workers forget to put a sign warning about this and my rear wheel just kept sliding away and away. I pumped my left foot on the pavement repeatedly to keep the bike from laying on its side and luckily, I won.
If I were to do that today, I'd lose. If I had tc, it would never have happened. TC is awesome, it will keep you from wrecking. Another good example was when I went on that dirt gravel road to Bodie (ghost town) and the tc light kept coming on, but the bike stayed stable. i have seen HD guys ride that road with their legs flayed out to act as stabilizers- not safe.
ABS is equally good. I like how it works with the rear brake, it actually slows you down. Every other bike that I have had, rear brake was not useful, had two modes- not used or locked.
I've gone thru oil on my Duc (no TC or ABS) and came out upright. Of course, that bike is much lighter than the C14, so I know that was instrumental in keeping it upright. But talk about a minor heart attack. In my case, TC wouldn't have done much, because I was in a left hand turn and the bike went more sideways than it was tire rotating.
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Don't worry, PH... I think the opinion of the "likes of you" are valid. TC and ABS can't fix stupid, any more than seatbelts and airbags. They all help, and can give you a better chance, but proper vehicle control should be the first step in staying upright/safe/alive.
I've gone thru oil on my Duc (no TC or ABS) and came out upright. Of course, that bike is much lighter than the C14, so I know that was instrumental in keeping it upright. But talk about a minor heart attack. In my case, TC wouldn't have done much, because I was in a left hand turn and the bike went more sideways than it was tire rotating.
Thanks RBX QB! I agree completely, they are of great assistance, but the rider makes all the difference.
Ten years ago, I was touring on my katana 1100, the thing was fully loaded with gear and stuff for a ten day trip. I turned onto a highway which was very recently oiled/ surfaced whatever. Well, the state of CA workers forget to put a sign warning about this and my rear wheel just kept sliding away and away. I pumped my left foot on the pavement repeatedly to keep the bike from laying on its side and luckily, I won.
If I were to do that today, I'd lose. If I had tc, it would never have happened. TC is awesome, it will keep you from wrecking. Another good example was when I went on that dirt gravel road to Bodie (ghost town) and the tc light kept coming on, but the bike stayed stable. i have seen HD guys ride that road with their legs flayed out to act as stabilizers- not safe.
ABS is equally good. I like how it works with the rear brake, it actually slows you down. Every other bike that I have had, rear brake was not useful, had two modes- not used or locked.
Yeah, we get the tar and chip crap here too. I slid one day on a CBR900 that the dealership I was helping with just took in. It was a full track bike. I was having a rough day so I threw a plate on it and took it for a ride. I slid through one turn and had no idea why. I went back and found they decided to tar and chip patches and they were using pea gravel. They had no warning signs and it was on a stretch that had nicely dappled light and shady spots on the road.
I was riding a gravel road the other day in Pennsylvania. I had no problems. It was a very hilly twisty gravel road. I hit some areas they were deep loose dirt and gravel. My point is, if you don't have ABS and TC, you ride like you don't have ABS and TC. I didn't lock up either front or back tires while braking nor did I spin the rear wheel when accelerating. Had I whacked the throttle open I could have or had I no modulated the brakes properly I would have.
Once again, ABS is a great safety innovation and it works. Learning throttle control and braking skills is something that never stops being important.
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- sorry to be judgmental , but brakes are important.
- its not yet another stupid pointless thread about what color to paint my bike now.
- if ABS works , then use it , and promote it to new riders.
- read up , and take note of the opinion of people more knowledgeable than us.
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- its not yet another stupid pointless thread about what color to paint my bike now.
No Christmas card for you this year P... ;)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/dejkriowe_zpsc86d5b3b.gif) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/jaywilcox/media/dejkriowe_zpsc86d5b3b.gif.html)
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:rotflmao:
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I never said they were bad, I just said that many people today have lost necessary skills because they rely on ABS and traction control. They simply grab the brake and pray with no regard for proper braking.
I hear so many people say that TC or ABS saved their butt. I hear some of the same people say it has saved their butt more than once. I say, if it saved your butt more than once, most likely you are not braking properly, or using your throttle properly. It tells me that if you were riding a bike without ABS or TC, you would have crashed more than once. So in other words, they have lost throttle control and braking skills.
That being said, the proper way to brake with ABS is to squeeze and let the ABS do the work. So, if you do that, most likely you will engage ABS, but that doesn't mean it saved your butt, had you been on a bike without ABS, you probably wouldn't have simply squeezed and prayed, you would have modulated the brake properly, and also not have wrecked. The same with TC. If you are hamfisted and slam the throttle open, and TC kicks in, you may say that TC saved you butt. If you didn't have TC, most likely you would have been more smooth with the throttle control and not had a problem.
I rode on the gravel without issue. Why? Because I used good throttle control, and good braking skills. I didn't skid, and didn't skid and didn't spin the tire. So how would TC or ABS help in that situation? It wouldn't. Now if I were unskilled and simply grabbed the brake, then ABS would kick in. Likewise if I didn't control the throttle properly, TC would kick in.
ABS is amazing. It is fantastic in a panic situation on slick surfaces, especially for those who don't practice. It doesn't save your butt often as I hear so many times. I prefer simplicity. What happens if the ABS fails? It can happen. Not a big deal on a car, but on a bike it is. Likely? probably not, but possible. I prefer a choice. Now had Kawasaki implemented ABS without the idiotic linked brakes, I very well may have bought a newer model with ABS. I hate linked brakes on a sport bike though, it makes trail braking difficult and potentially dangerous.
Thanks for the the lesson on how to ride a ride a motorcycle, I haven't quite figured it out yet (sarcasm) ;) ;D
I didn't mean as a daily crutch to smooth out ones inability to properly control their bike. I ment as a safty net. Lets face it, s**t happens, thats sometimes out of our control, & to have those two safety features to bail ya out when s**t happens, is oh sooo nice! It's better to have it & not need it than to need it & not have it :)
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Not trying to add to an arguement, just food for thought.
I once changed lanes in behind a car that, about 5 and a half seconds later, started spewing gasoline out from under the rear-ABS saved my butt.
I used to ride in the high country of Nevada until the snow actually was enough to go all the way way across the road. ABS saved my butt more than once. (Yeah, that's really not as stupid as it sounds- the town is at 4300', but you have to cross a 7000' pass to get to the residential area that is at about 6000'- often there was snow on the pass, and nothing on either side- or a dusting at best)
I've been riding with linked brakes since 1999, and can trail brake just fine- in fact, I will argue that front trail braking at speed is somewhat more predictable with linked brakes once you get used to them. I switch back and forth between two bikes, one that has linked brakes, no ABS, no traction control, and one that has them all. I suppose in my case the arguement could be made that my skills don't degrade because I'm riding both, but the point remains that every feature on an advanced motorcycle comes in handy at some point in the average rider's lifetime riding experience.
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- sorry to be judgmental , but brakes are important.
- its not yet another stupid pointless thread about what color to paint my bike now.
- if ABS works , then use it , and promote it to new riders.
- read up , and take note of the opinion of people more knowledgeable than us.
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I agree with all you said. I think you are misreading what I am saying. I am saying that you can ride safely without them, and many who have them are neglecting to practice. Both are important, but I would argue that skills are more important.
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Thanks for the the lesson on how to ride a ride a motorcycle, I haven't quite figured it out yet (sarcasm) ;) ;D
I didn't mean as a daily crutch to smooth out ones inability to properly control their bike. I ment as a safty net. Lets face it, s**t happens, thats sometimes out of our control, & to have those two safety features to bail ya out when s**t happens, is oh sooo nice! It's better to have it & not need it than to need it & not have it :)
Agreed.
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Not trying to add to an arguement, just food for thought.
I once changed lanes in behind a car that, about 5 and a half seconds later, started spewing gasoline out from under the rear-ABS saved my butt.
I used to ride in the high country of Nevada until the snow actually was enough to go all the way way across the road. ABS saved my butt more than once. (Yeah, that's really not as stupid as it sounds- the town is at 4300', but you have to cross a 7000' pass to get to the residential area that is at about 6000'- often there was snow on the pass, and nothing on either side- or a dusting at best)
I've been riding with linked brakes since 1999, and can trail brake just fine- in fact, I will argue that front trail braking at speed is somewhat more predictable with linked brakes once you get used to them. I switch back and forth between two bikes, one that has linked brakes, no ABS, no traction control, and one that has them all. I suppose in my case the arguement could be made that my skills don't degrade because I'm riding both, but the point remains that every feature on an advanced motorcycle comes in handy at some point in the average rider's lifetime riding experience.
ABS wouldn't be necessary in the gasoline incident if you are riding down a highway at speed. It is only important if you hit the brakes. You can safely ride through a low traction situation if you don't brake. The problem comes when you hit the brakes in a situation like that. Once again, that is where skills and knowledge come in. Now, if there is more to the story, like the car also slamming the brakes on in front of you, I understand, ABS will come into play.
May people react by braking when they come upon a low traction situation, like gravel or sand on the road, when the best course of action would most likely be to maintain a constant speed, you can ride though it. I hit gravel in the middle of the road the other day as my wife and I were going through a curve, the bike slide to the side a bit, regained traction and continued on its way. It happens quite often around here. That is where practice and knowledge comes into play. The knowledge that the bike won't necessarily go down in a situation like that, it will slide until it regains traction, and won't upset unless the rider makes an input like hitting the brakes. Yes, if you hit an area that has deep gravel across the entire road, you will most likely go down. I hit a lot of gravel in the places I ride. I still have yet to wreck as a result. I hit an area of deep gravel and rocks along a stretch last year that had been washed onto the road in a heavy rain, I was doing a decent speed when I hit it, I stayed loose on the bars and stayed off the brakes. The gravel extended for around 40 feet. The bike made it through fine, but it felt like it was floating. Had I hit the brakes, I would have wrecked. I would say that even with ABS, since this was in a very slight bend, hitting the brakes would have been disastrous.
I ride all year. I live in Pittsburgh so we get snow. ABS would be nice for that of course, but once again not necessary. With ABS or not, skills are more important. I took my old Goldwing to Tennessee one night and it snowed on me from Wheeling to Zanesville, OH, a 70 or so mile stretch. There was ice covering the entire front of the bike. I somehow manages to saty upright at highway speeds, and slow down and stop when I pulled over for gas. That was on a 1986 Aspencade so no ABS or TC.
The Goldwing had linked brakes, while I still don't like them, they were okay for the Wing, I still don't like them. For trail braking I still don't like them. I want my rear wheel to spin free in a curve to maximize the traction available for the curve. That is the goal and that is why you use trail braking in the first place, to maximize the traction available, and of course to settle the chassis down in front for better tracking through the curve. All you have to do is ask Kawasaki themselves, or rather refer to their own promo material for the advantage of unlinked brakes for sport riding. THeir own literature played that up for the earlier models.
I didn't want to start a war here, my only real point is that people need to be more concerned with their skill set than simply having ABS. ABS is a great thing, and I have not said it isn't, I have only said I continually hear people say, and I'm not necessarily referring to this forum, that is saved their butt when the reason it kicked in in the first place was they panicked and stomped the rear brake, or braked in a low traction situation that would have better called for no braking. In other words, they braked improperly thus necessitating the ABS. I am only advocating the practice of good riding and braking skills, along with good throttle control. That is all, and I do not think that is a bad thing whether you have ABS or not. Let's not be like the clueless car drivers who have never given any thought to how to react in a panic situation. They can brake hard in a curve without fear of wrecking, a person on a motorcycle cannot, they have to remain upright, so learning the skills is necessary for our survival. ABS won't help you if you don't understand and apply the physics involved.
So, to sum up, I am not anti-ABS or TC, I just see a trend towards total reliance on this technology instead of utilizing the computer we all possess, our brain. Practice is the best way to survive on a motorcycle.
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a468/RCRide/Concours%201400/IMG-20110117-00003.jpg)
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a468/RCRide/Concours%201400/frostyseat_corbin.jpg)
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When I grow up I wish to be as skilled as you PH 14
Your my HERO :hail: :hail: :hail: :pukeface: :deadhorse:
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I'm guilty of panic. Had I been a better rider I wouldn't have needed ABS. So I'm working on my riding skills. But the fact that I am able to work on my riding skills is due to ABS. I'll never buy another new street bike without it.
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I used to ride in the high country of Nevada until the snow actually was enough to go all the way way across the road. ABS saved my butt more than once. (Yeah, that's really not as stupid as it sounds- the town is at 4300', but you have to cross a 7000' pass to get to the residential area that is at about 6000'- often there was snow on the pass, and nothing on either side- or a dusting at best)
Sounds like one of favorite drives in the winter- I live in Carson City, I drive up to lake tahoe, around the mountains when the roads are clear and everything is covered with snow-beautiful ride.
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A
I ride all year. I live in Pittsburgh so we get snow. ABS would be nice for that of course, but once again not necessary. With ABS or not, skills are more important. I took my old Goldwing to Tennessee one night and it snowed on me from Wheeling to Zanesville, OH, a 70 or so mile stretch. There was ice covering the entire front of the bike. I somehow manages to saty upright at highway speeds, and slow down and stop when I pulled over for gas. That was on a 1986 Aspencade so no ABS or TC.
Pittsburgh? Give me a break! We have these things in N. NV called the Sierra Nevada mountains- tall, curvey moutains that sometimes you really don't know what is around the corner. The road could be bone then you might hit a lit bit of snow melt going across the road. Occassionally, the snowmelt will get shaded by those tall pine/sequoia trees and it is ice.
No amount of chest thumping will make up for safety benefit of abs. You can post pics and anecdotes all you want, but that doesn't make up for facts.
Fact 1- The abs can make up to 10 calculations on brake threshold per second. Is your right foot that quick?
Fact 2- This is according to research http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html (http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html)
It is interesting to note that the people who say abs is unnecessary don't have abs bikes themselves; they have pre '11 C-14 bikes that lack it. Perhaps they didn't have scratch to get the abs and trying to convince themselves that was a wise savings of cash. I bet none of these anti-abs chest thumpers have disabled the abs on their cars/trucks.
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It is interesting to note that the people who say abs is unnecessary don't have abs bikes themselves; they have pre '11 C-14 bikes that lack it. Perhaps they didn't have scratch to get the abs and trying to convince themselves that was a wise savings of cash. I bet none of these anti-abs chest thumpers have disabled the abs on their cars/trucks.
Not sure that "unnecessary" is the right word... It can pay for itself, 10-fold, in emergency situations... but it is possible to ride without it in "normal" situations. The point some of us are trying to reinforce is that we shouldn't DEPEND on these features for day to day riding (it took a few posts for this to become clear, but I think it's in there). When I finally do end up in a situation where I need to ham-fist my brake, or hit a patch of road snot, I'll be VERY glad I have ABS/TC. I'll still need to change my shorts, tho.
On a side note, the ABS and TC in my POS car suck horribly. The ABS locked up in emergency braking, the one time I REALLY needed it. That was fun.
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Man, I miss carb's. I think we rely so much on technology, EFI just made us a bunch of sissies. I miss having to play around with the choke cable... and don't even get me started about push button starting!!! ;D
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Man, I miss carb's. I think we rely so much on technology, EFI just made us a bunch of sissies. I miss having to play around with the choke cable... and don't even get me started about push button starting!!! ;D
...and the magneto I so wisely to put on the old Sportser.
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Man, I miss carb's. I think we rely so much on technology, EFI just made us a bunch of sissies. I miss having to play around with the choke cable... and don't even get me started about push button starting!!! ;D
My doctor told me to stay away from carbs. That's why both of my bikes have EFI.
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It is interesting to note that the people who say abs is unnecessary don't have abs bikes themselves; they have pre '11 C-14 bikes that lack it.
Pre 2010. My 2010 has abs & tc...just fyi
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ABS was optional on the 08/09s. My 08 has it.
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ABS was optional on the 08/09s. My 08 has it.
It was also optional on 2010. 2011/12/13/14 became standard equipment
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Man, I miss carb's. I think we rely so much on technology, EFI just made us a bunch of sissies. I miss having to play around with the choke cable... and don't even get me started about push button starting!!! ;D
I have a '91 Katana 1100 in my garage that you'd love to bond with. Main jets periodically clog up with gel (e10 fuel probably) and it is just loads of fun removing the carbs, removing the mains and cleaning them up. In fact, I can't think of a better way spending a nice saturday afternoon than futzing with some carbs!
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Pittsburgh? Give me a break! We have these things in N. NV called the Sierra Nevada mountains- tall, curvey moutains that sometimes you really don't know what is around the corner. The road could be bone then you might hit a lit bit of snow melt going across the road. Occassionally, the snowmelt will get shaded by those tall pine/sequoia trees and it is ice.
No amount of chest thumping will make up for safety benefit of abs. You can post pics and anecdotes all you want, but that doesn't make up for facts.
Fact 1- The abs can make up to 10 calculations on brake threshold per second. Is your right foot that quick?
Fact 2- This is according to research http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html (http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html)
It is interesting to note that the people who say abs is unnecessary don't have abs bikes themselves; they have pre '11 C-14 bikes that lack it. Perhaps they didn't have scratch to get the abs and trying to convince themselves that was a wise savings of cash. I bet none of these anti-abs chest thumpers have disabled the abs on their cars/trucks.
Wow, who the hell is chest thumping. I have only made the point that even with ABS, which I know is an amazing thing, we need to continue to practice. Wow, why is that so controversial? A bike can be ridden safely without it, but when you need it is works.
And yes Pittsburgh. This entire area is covered with roads just as you describe, they are throughout the Western Pennsylvania and West Virginia area. Maybe you should come out here sometime to see for yourself, I've been in your area.
You guys are way too emotional over a piece of technology. I'm done. Sorry to try to add a little to the discussion regarding safety. I'm not the best rider, but I do know that avoiding braking in some situations is often the best course of action.
Sorry to offend anyone. I'll go away.
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As far as I'm concerned there has been no offense, just a difference of opinion. No need to go away.
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I agree with PH14. If you are in a situation that results in the use of ABS then you need to analyze it and figure out what you should have done to avoid that situation. This then should be applied to your riding from here on. ABS is a safety net, a last chance, it is not something that should be used regularly.
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- one more point : braking on marginal (read : wet) surfaces. ABS is an absolute life saver here.
- i ride in all weathers and its very very reassuring to be able to brake confidently even when its raining hard.
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I agree with PH14. If you are in a situation that results in the use of ABS then you need to analyze it and figure out what you should have done to avoid that situation. This then should be applied to your riding from here on. ABS is a safety net, a last chance, it is not something that should be used regularly.
Totally agree. I'm always thinking about the road surface and ride accordingly.
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As far as I'm concerned there has been no offense, just a difference of opinion. No need to go away.
+1 I'm not even sure there was much difference of opinion. I am a big fan of ABS but totally agree with PH14 that rider skills is the most important component of riding safely.
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Wow, who the hell is chest thumping. I have only made the point that even with ABS, which I know is an amazing thing, we need to continue to practice. Wow, why is that so controversial? A bike can be ridden safely without it, but when you need it is works.
And yes Pittsburgh. This entire area is covered with roads just as you describe, they are throughout the Western Pennsylvania and West Virginia area. Maybe you should come out here sometime to see for yourself, I've been in your area.
You guys are way too emotional over a piece of technology. I'm done. Sorry to try to add a little to the discussion regarding safety. I'm not the best rider, but I do know that avoiding braking in some situations is often the best course of action.
Sorry to offend anyone. I'll go away.
Yeah the Appalachian Mtn's are not to be taken lightly. SE & Eastern Ohio is where you start to see the beginning of those Mtn's & have some great roads & offer some great riding.
Noooo no need to go away. I think sometimes on forums ppl type one thing & others read another, making it tough for the person to get their point across. I too agree with what your saying about riding techniques & skill in different situations.