Author Topic: Murphs' Kits Wedges (Read 38375 times)

maxtog · « **Reply #40 on:** August 05, 2011, 10:14:43 PM »

Quote from: maxtog on July 29, 2011, 08:36:32 PM

Yeah, me too. Said I needed the longer bolts, he stood behind his word, so am I Order placed.

Mine arrived earlier this week and I installed them tonight. As I mentioned before, this is on top of the Helibars.

It looked like a two person job, so I had my best friend help. Good thing I did- it would have been MUCH more difficult with one person. The washers are tricky, but we found the perfect method.... I held the dimple in place with an angled dental pick while he tightened.

I wondered why they weren't MORE angle on the plates, now I know why! They are the absolute MAX possible while still being able to get the bolts in! It appeared to us that the longer bolts are TOO LONG for the narrow wedge side, so we used the longer Murphs bolts only on the thick sides and the Helibar bolts on the thin sides. Murph- you probably only should include 2 long bolts in the kit.

The change is MORE than I expected! An added bonus is that the Helibars caused the right master cylinder to touch every so slightly on the windshield when in lock position- now it is far away. I am quite pleased so far, although I have only ridden about 30 min. Even at that distance, I would normally start to have numbness problems in my right hand. None!! I will try to remember to post again after much more time using them.

philipintexas · « **Reply #41 on:** August 06, 2011, 09:18:07 AM »

Caffeinated brings up a good question, I checked the stock bolts from my bike and they are marked "A2" "70" as were the bolts I supplied with the wedges I made. Given the size & number I would think any stainless steel bolt would be as strong as the stock ones. My guess is the stanchion will break long before the 8 mm bolts holding them. Murph is supplying far stronger bolts than Kawasaki did. Has anyone found different strength bolts than "A2 70" on their bike?

DGOLD · « **Reply #42 on:** August 06, 2011, 02:23:38 PM »

Well I finally had the wedges installed on my 2010 c14 and went for a spin this morning. About 75 miles of twisties.. It has brought the bars back just enough so I don't feel like I am reaching and having my arms locked straight, but not so much that the bike needs work to lean for the turn. Those Japonese must have longer arms than the rest of us.

maxtog · « **Reply #43 on:** August 06, 2011, 02:48:57 PM »

Quote from: dgold on August 06, 2011, 02:23:38 PM

Well I finally had the wedges installed on my 2010 c14 and went for a spin this morning. About 75 miles of twisties.. It has brought the bars back just enough so I don't feel like I am reaching and having my arms locked straight, but not so much that the bike needs work to lean for the turn.

It is more a case of the handlebars going up than back. It is a difference, for sure.

Quote

Those Japonese must have longer arms than the rest of us.

The Japanese don't ride bikes like the Concours.... it was designed for "Westerners" who they think are all 6' tall and have have ape arms

Murph · « **Reply #44 on:** August 06, 2011, 07:57:38 PM »

A2 is about 50% the strength of a DIN 10.9 bolt, 400 series stainless gets pretty close to the DIN 10.9 specs for tensile strength. I need several folks to verify the head markings on stock bolts..Mine were Din 10.9
zinc
10.9 is odd for a socket drive fasteners, but for some reason Japanese motorcycle manufactures like em’ that way. Its far easier to find DIN 12.9 than 10.9 as the majority of socket drive screws are DIN 12.9 , a little harder to find zinc ones. So how about it guys, check out those head stampings on your stock bolts and tell me what they are.

Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member

philipintexas · « **Reply #45 on:** August 07, 2011, 11:39:04 AM »

Well, I'm completely confused, I checked the bolts I removed from my bike and I have 2 - 10.9 and 4 - A2!
The 10.9s are attracted by a magnetic while the A2s are not since they are stainless. Anyone with a stock bike find this disparity?

dras · « **Reply #46 on:** August 07, 2011, 12:10:10 PM »

All 6 of my handlebar mounting bolts are marked A2-70. This is on a 2008 C14 w/ ABS. All stainless.

Murph · « **Reply #47 on:** August 07, 2011, 05:34:24 PM »

dras..
Did you buy your bike new, and its stock?

Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member

Caffeinated · « **Reply #48 on:** August 07, 2011, 06:05:43 PM »

All 6 of my stock 2011 bolts are 10.9

Steve Bell · « **Reply #49 on:** August 07, 2011, 06:28:03 PM »

Quote from: dras on August 07, 2011, 12:10:10 PM

All 6 of my handlebar mounting bolts are marked A2-70. This is on a 2008 C14 w/ ABS. All stainless.

Mine as well all A2-70, bought the bike new.

Barry · « **Reply #50 on:** August 07, 2011, 07:38:11 PM »

Just fired Murph a order for a set of Wedges. I'll post up when I get them what the results are with regards to fit.

Barry

dras · « **Reply #51 on:** August 07, 2011, 08:15:52 PM »

Quote from: Murph on August 07, 2011, 05:34:24 PM

dras..
Did you buy your bike new, and its stock?

Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member

No, I bought it used, but it did not have any risers or such and I have no reason to believe these were not the stock bolts from the factory, but I suppose they could have been replaced by someone at some time - who knows? $:-\$

Conhardcore · « **Reply #52 on:** August 09, 2011, 11:35:36 AM »

Quote from: maxtog on August 05, 2011, 10:14:43 PM

Mine arrived earlier this week and I installed them tonight. As I mentioned before, this is on top of the Helibars.

It looked like a two person job, so I had my best friend help. Good thing I did- it would have been MUCH more difficult with one person. The washers are tricky, but we found the perfect method.... I held the dimple in place with an angled dental pick while he tightened.

I wondered why they weren't MORE angle on the plates, now I know why! They are the absolute MAX possible while still being able to get the bolts in! It appeared to us that the longer bolts are TOO LONG for the narrow wedge side, so we used the longer Murphs bolts only on the thick sides and the Helibar bolts on the thin sides. Murph- you probably only should include 2 long bolts in the kit.

The change is MORE than I expected! An added bonus is that the Helibars caused the right master cylinder to touch every so slightly on the windshield when in lock position- now it is far away. I am quite pleased so far, although I have only ridden about 30 min. Even at that distance, I would normally start to have numbness problems in my right hand. None!! I will try to remember to post again after much more time using them.

I just got notice that my wedges have been shipped so I probably should wait but based on your comment about the washers being tricky and after printing the instructions in advance it looks like getting the washers properly aligned is key. You did it with a buddy...is it something that can be done solo? Also...admit to still being confused as to where the washers actually go on the wedges. I want to put them on this weekend. Can you clarify?

Thanks

philipintexas · « **Reply #53 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:08:25 PM »

CONHARDCORE: Maybe I can explain about the washers. Normally the counter bore in the stanchion base has a flat bottom for the bolt heads to contact as you tighten them. With the wedge in place the stanchion base is tilted 6 degrees and the bottom of the counter bore is now tilted the same amount. The bolt heads will not contact the bottom of the counter bore correctly, so the washer which also has a 6 degree angle is placed so the high-side of the washer is opposite the low side of the angle and produces parallel surfaces under the bolt heads.
As you tighten the bolts, the washer wants to turn so if you position them turned counterclockwise about 1/4 - 1/2 turn, they will rotate into the correct orientation as you tighten the bolts. You might also glue them in the correct orientation so they stay put while tightening. They are a pain but not too difficult.

Conhardcore · « **Reply #54 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:44:37 PM »

Thanks Phil...much appreciated. Have another thread going but since these are your product, were they originally intended to go with risers as the optimum correction or did you also see these as giving the same correction and affect to the stock bar height? I ordered bolts for three configs: Heli-Murphs-stock.

philipintexas · « **Reply #55 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:52:43 PM »

When I made mine, I had stock bars and it was a step toward getting the bars closer and to change the compound twist in my wrists. I later made extenders for the bars so I'd sit upright and I now have the wedges + the extenders. I sold a lot to guys who had stock bars so i know you'll get some responses.

maxtog · « **Reply #56 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:24:49 PM »

Quote from: Conhardcore on August 09, 2011, 11:35:36 AM

I just got notice that my wedges have been shipped so I probably should wait but based on your comment about the washers being tricky and after printing the instructions in advance it looks like getting the washers properly aligned is key. You did it with a buddy...is it something that can be done solo? Also...admit to still being confused as to where the washers actually go on the wedges. I want to put them on this weekend. Can you clarify?

As Philip said, it can be done solo, but it is trickier. Make SURE that the dimples are still pointed toward the steering pivot after the bolts are tightened. The main problem is seeing the dimples- they are hard to spot down in the countersunk hole. I bet a mark with a permanent marker would help

Barry · « **Reply #57 on:** August 11, 2011, 06:00:08 AM »

Well, just did the left bar install over my 2nd cup of coffee. Took a couple minutes, then I uninstalled it and will either be shipping the kit back to Murph or selling it. I am fairly handy with tools, but could only get 2 of the 3 washers rotated to the correct orientation. I'm anal/OCD and those washers and wedges would worry me if I ever dropped the bike off to have it worked on. I did like the position to which the kit moved the bar-end. Alas, not for me via this method... I will say the quality of the components in the kit appeared to be very high. I was quite happy with what arrived in the package. My enthusiasm dipped when I read the installation instructions and the requirement for the wedge shaped washers started nagging me, way before the installation.

So, a couple thoughts... if you were to machine the surface of the bar base (stanchion?) where the bolt heads meet it to the right angle, that would be a nice mod. Then you wouldn't need washers, just pop the bolt in like OEM. OR, use some very strong epoxy to literally glue the washers into the correct orientation. 18 ft. lbs. (IIRC) isn't a lot of torque, probably wouldn't break the washers free of the epoxy... or maybe it would. I was't going to explore either of those options. Could probably have a local machine shop do the machining cheap and easy.

My guess is $$$$ is keeping anyone from simply making new stanchions(?) which is the part of the bar with 3 holes, that mates to the top triple clamp. Making those in various angle/rotation configurations would solve the problem. Lot of tooling to manufacture for numerous configurations, so probably a non-starter.

Barry

philipintexas · « **Reply #58 on:** August 11, 2011, 11:45:43 AM »

BARRY: I feel your pain, but since I've had my bars on/off about a hundred times test fitting stuff I can tell you it gets better with repetition. The washers are a PITA but the option of making non-reversible modifications to the stanchion isn't feasible, and the only other solution I know of, metric stainless steel spherical washer sets would add about $30 to the kit, and they only accommodate about 3 degrees of misalignment.
I considered a press fit washer but they would be next to impossible to remove and, as with any farkle, the wedges don't work for everybody so I tried to make them as easy to test fit as possible and then easy to undo if you don't like them. I haven't tried it, but a S.S star washer under the angled washer might help to keep it from turning.

Barry · « **Reply #59 on:** August 11, 2011, 11:51:11 AM »

Quote from: philipintexas on August 11, 2011, 11:45:43 AM

BARRY: I feel your pain, but since I've had my bars on/off about a hundred times test fitting stuff I can tell you it gets better with repetition. The washers are a PITA but the option of making non-reversible modifications to the stanchion isn't feasible, and the only other solution I know of, metric stainless steel spherical washer sets would add about $30 to the kit, and they only accommodate about 3 degrees of misalignment.
I considered a press fit washer but they would be next to impossible to remove and, as with any farkle, the wedges don't work for everybody so I tried to make them as easy to test fit as possible and then easy to undo if you don't like them. I haven't tried it, but a S.S star washer under the angled washer might help to keep it from turning.

My first thought was a crush washer of some sort, or rubber for that matter. VERY hard rubber, only slightly compressible, would probably work VERY well.

I may have to give it some additional thought.

What I didn't indicate clearly is my concern over the washers, with regards to dropping the bike off. The installation is VERY specific. Every time I drop the bike off, I'd have to trust the person doing the reinstall would do it exactly right.

The hard durometer rubber washer would negate that concern.

Thoughts

The result was quite nice on the one bar I did. As stated, the anal/OCD aspect of my personality went BOIIINNNGG!

Barry

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Author Topic: Murphs' Kits Wedges (Read 38375 times)