MC Enterprises Canyon Cages Install Notes

[Rhino]

Very good writeup by the OP.

Has anyone tried this on a 2014-2015 yet ?

I have a set of cages on the way for my 2015 C14 and reading this makes me nervous as hell.  Almost to the point of not even attempting it. 

One question, what does this line mean:

Catching what ?

Welcome to the forum JTX! I had no problem on my 2010. I wouldn't think there is any difference between Gen-2 bikes 2010-2015. On mine the engine bolts had a lot of what looked like orange thread locker and they were very tight. After I got the bolts out, I carefully cleaned the threads and when I put them back in I used blue, non-permanent, Loc-Tite. Just make sure you don't cross thread them. I've had the cages off and back on several times since then and no problems.

[JTX]

Welcome to the forum JTX! I had no problem on my 2010. I wouldn't think there is any difference between Gen-2 bikes 2010-2015. On mine the engine bolts had a lot of what looked like orange thread locker and they were very tight. After I got the bolts out, I carefully cleaned the threads and when I put them back in I used blue, non-permanent, Loc-Tite. Just make sure you don't cross thread them. I've had the cages off and back on several times since then and no problems.

Thanks for the welcome!

What I'm concerned about is the removal process more than anything.  I've pretty much assumed I will need to clean the threads on both the mount holes and the bolts before inserting the new bolt.  Because there should really be no resistance when you re install the bolts until the bolt begins to tighten at the end.

It appears that not everyone use heat, and Im not sure why because we know theres a thread locker on it.

[sailor_chic]

Welcome to the forum JTX! I had no problem on my 2010. I wouldn't think there is any difference between Gen-2 bikes 2010-2015. On mine the engine bolts had a lot of what looked like orange thread locker and they were very tight. After I got the bolts out, I carefully cleaned the threads and when I put them back in I used blue, non-permanent, Loc-Tite. Just make sure you don't cross thread them. I've had the cages off and back on several times since then and no problems.

I had the same type of install on my 2013. The bolts had Orange thread locker on then. This color leads me to believe that it is Kawasaki's own brand of thread locker, and is different from the Permatex Red Loctite that many are referring to. When taking the engine mount bolt out, I used a quality hex, and a 3/8'' breaker bar. No problems what so ever. As mentioned above, I then cleaned the bolt threads, and in addition, I also re-tapped the engine to make sure there was nothing fouling the threads. Blue loctite was applied when reassembled.

[Rhino]

I had the same type of install on my 2013. The bolts had Orange thread locker on then. This color leads me to believe that it is Kawasaki's own brand of thread locker, and is different from the Permatex Red Loctite that many are referring to. When taking the engine mount bolt out, I used a quality hex, and a 3/8'' breaker bar. No problems what so ever. As mentioned above, I then cleaned the bolt threads, and in addition, I also re-tapped the engine to make sure there was nothing fouling the threads. Blue loctite was applied when reassembled.

+1 I used a Craftsman 3/8" drive hex socket, made sure it was fully seated and had no problem at all.

[JTX]

No heat ?  I think the key is to not force it if it is real tight...  apply more heat  from what I am reading.

+1 I used a Craftsman 3/8" drive hex socket, made sure it was fully seated and had no problem at all.

[Rhino]

No heat ?  I think the key is to not force it if it is real tight...  apply more heat  from what I am reading.

No I didn't apply any heat. I'm not sure how you would. These bolts are into the engine, I would be very reluctant to use a torch in there.

[JTX]

No I didn't apply any heat. I'm not sure how you would. These bolts are into the engine, I would be very reluctant to use a torch in there.

Wow that just goes against everything I know about mechanics, and thread locking compound............

[gPink]

No I didn't apply any heat. I'm not sure how you would. These bolts are into the engine, I would be very reluctant to use a torch in there.

Could you leave the socket on to contain and direct the heat from a pencil tip torch?

[Rhino]

It never even occurred to me to use heat. I first did it with the MC bathroom bars. I had no idea there could potentially be a problem. I just used my Craftsman sockets (I know not a Snap-On but I've never broken one in several decades of use) and a cheater bar. Applied torque and they just came out. It wasn't until I had them out that I even knew Kawi used a locking compound. I'm guessing whatever compound they use it is designed to allow the bolt to be removed for servicing. Just a matter of torque. Have people been breaking off bolts?

[maxtog]

No heat ?  I think the key is to not force it if it is real tight...  apply more heat  from what I am reading.

I didn't use any heat.  Just what others said.  Use a quality tool, long breaker bar, make sure things are seated well, and go for it.  It was not easy, but they all came off intact.

[JTX]

It never even occurred to me to use heat. I first did it with the MC bathroom bars. I had no idea there could potentially be a problem. I just used my Craftsman sockets (I know not a Snap-On but I've never broken one in several decades of use) and a cheater bar. Applied torque and they just came out. It wasn't until I had them out that I even knew Kawi used a locking compound. I'm guessing whatever compound they use it is designed to allow the bolt to be removed for servicing. Just a matter of torque. Have people been breaking off bolts?

On another forum, I'm seeing reports of broken bolts and rounded out/stripped hex heads, yes.  So I found your guys forum, and the great writeup at the top of the thread, so I posed the question about heating.

I really really really really don't want a broken bolt in the engine mount.

[Rhino]

On another forum, I'm seeing reports of broken bolts and rounded out/stripped hex heads, yes.  So I found your guys forum, and the great writeup at the top of the thread, so I posed the question about heating.

I really really really really don't want a broken bolt in the engine mount.

I hear that! Because that would really really really really suck! Don't know what to tell you. Rounded head or stripped hex heads are remedied by good tools and making sure the socket or hex is fully seated. But broken bolt in the engine is another mater. Good luck and let us know how it turned out.

[JTX]

Well, I have pretty good craftsman tools here, not junk anyway.  I put a good hex socket on my 3 foot bar, and tried to break them loose with moderate force and they didn't budge.

These bolts are secured with a threadlock compound.

Damaging things is not worth the bars.   So I might just skip it unless my local dealer will do it without charging me for 3 or 4 hours of labor at their 80$+ rate.

[maxtog]

Well, I have pretty good craftsman tools here, not junk anyway.  I put a good hex socket on my 3 foot bar, and tried to break them loose with moderate force and they didn't budge.

These bolts are secured with a threadlock compound.

Damaging things is not worth the bars.   So I might just skip it unless my local dealer will do it without charging me for 3 or 4 hours of labor at their 80$+ rate.

Kawasaki put WAY too much threadlock (or way too strong, or both) on the bolts.  EVERYONE complains they are way too difficult to remove.  All I can tell you is that the forum has had dozens and dozens and dozens of people install the fallover protection and I don't recall ever reading a single post about the bolts actually breaking.

[JTX]

Kawasaki put WAY too much threadlock (or way too strong, or both) on the bolts.  EVERYONE complains they are way too difficult to remove.  All I can tell you is that the forum has had dozens and dozens and dozens of people install the fallover protection and I don't recall ever reading a single post about the bolts actually breaking.

It's why I'm going to try to heat it before I give up.

I might also go get a snapon hex bit, extension, and breaker bar.  I bet it wont flex like my craftsman does =D

[sailor_chic]

It's why I'm going to try to heat it before I give up.

I might also go get a snapon hex bit, extension, and breaker bar.  I bet it wont flex like my craftsman does =D

So please clear this up for me. You're worried about breaking a bolt off while loosening it,  so your options are to try once more or have no protection?
I hate to say this,  and I'll never tell the story, but I have first hand experience on how well they Canyon cages protect the bike. 
Obviously I am not an experienced mechanic, but I have been around the block once or twice. And I can say that a bolt breaking on removal is not as common as on installation.  I'm sure it is possible, but I would assume that it would be on a lesser grade of a bolt. Being an engine mounting bolt, I would say that it is a hardened bolt, designed for this stress that it will endure and that it isn't your standard butter bolt from the local hardware store.
When I put my cages on, by myself, I didn't measure the torque of its tightness. I had read the same stuff on these forums about the nightmare installs, and knew that I needed to be smarter than the object I was working with.  With using a decent quality tool(s) I put all my effort into making the bolt turn the way it should.  Meaning that I kept proper alignment on everything, while I was putting everything I had into moving that breaker bar in the intended motion. And with a "snap", the bolt was turning. 
I cleaned the threads on both surfaces and reapplied blue loctite on instalation.
A day later, I unwillingly tested the usefulness of the CC. So to answer my own question from my opening of this post, I would definitely go with the try again option.

[JTX]

I contacted my local dealer today where i purchased the C14 and they gave me a very reasonable rate to install them ( under 200$ ) , so I'm going to let them them do it.

I just don't have the beefy tools needed to do it and they have the means to fix anything that might go wrong.

The replies in the thread are appreciated.

[Ghost Rider 2]

  I read on other forum the post on canyon cages nightmare. Well I did not read it well enough and bought a set for my 09.  Yes it was a little hassle installing them.  The front bolt is a major pain.  Anyway my question is when installing the front bolt, instead of going through the melting of the lock tight again what would be wrong with using anti seize  and a lock washer. I am leaning that way.

[gPink]

Good morning, Jerry. I haven't installed the cages but from what I've read here and on the cog site the problem was with the type and quantity of thread locker that the factory used. I think that once the bolts are clean and the threads have been chased and cleaned you should be able to run the bolt in by hand. Use blue thread locker and retorque as required.
Gary

[Conrad]

What G said...

I think that it's been the folks with the inferior Gen2 bikes who have had all the issues with the thread lock stuff. I had zero issues with the install of the CCs on my '08. Besides, if you make a cut in the fairings you will not have to remove any CCs bolts in order remove the fairings when work is required.